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  1. #4921
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    Take that with a grain of salt

    Doyle also says Bono's a "solid veteran" who is having the greatest year of his career & thinks Oso only started playing well once the Italians got here.

    I like Doyle as he sees deeper then many league wide analysts do but because he is a league wide analyst, he only can see so much at each time within the schedule. He also has a lot of recency bias - this comes from being primarily a content provider.

    I also have noticed that only local journos know what local managers discuss - there is not a league wide analyst who seeks out weekly manager interviews. This likely comes from how little most markets get in this regard.

    I trust Kilbane's assessment of Bono where he openly said last week the team should be looking for an upgrade in goal next year (and in CB's). Kilbane is responsible for seeing TFC, Montreal & Vancouver each week & the rest of the league just to assist in how to see TFC, Montreal & Vancouver. That means he can see more depth & flow to a player within the season of the team.

    [edited to remove off-topic discussion]
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 08-13-2022 at 12:26 PM.

  2. #4922
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    Please don't talk about broadcasters in the roster thread. People get upset when they look here for news and then find random discussions. I've deleted the off-topic items.

    Discuss general TFC stuff here: http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showth...ussion)/page17
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 08-13-2022 at 12:26 PM.


  3. #4923
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Take that with a grain of salt

    Doyle also says Bono's a "solid veteran" who is having the greatest year of his career & thinks Oso only started playing well once the Italians got here.

    I like Doyle as he sees deeper then many league wide analysts do but because he is a league wide analyst, he only can see so much at each time within the schedule. He also has a lot of recency bias - this comes from being primarily a content provider.

    I also have noticed that only local journos know what local managers discuss - there is not a league wide analyst who seeks out weekly manager interviews. This likely comes from how little most markets get in this regard.

    I trust Kilbane's assessment of Bono where he openly said last week the team should be looking for an upgrade in goal next year (and in CB's). Kilbane is responsible for seeing TFC, Montreal & Vancouver each week & the rest of the league just to assist in how to see TFC, Montreal & Vancouver. That means he can see more depth & flow to a player within the season of the team.

    [edited to remove off-topic discussion]
    On Roster and that quote, yes, no question at all - Doyle couldnt possibly keep up week by week with every team in the league (he probably could almost when he started that gig) but transfer windows are a bit of a different story - thats about knowing a teams overall weaknesses and about knowing players in general, and here he knows about as much or more than some of us.

    Our roster is hugely better. Perhaps because were sniffing out transfer news like a collective bloodhound, once things rumoured for a while happen it might be easier to take them a touch for granted. I cant think of a better transfer window thats weve had and weve had some good ones. Of course we havent had an instant tear down like this either, not very many have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by los sonadores View Post
    On Roster and that quote, yes, no question at all - Doyle couldn’t possibly keep up week by week with every team in the league (he probably could almost when he started that gig) but transfer windows are a bit of a different story - that’s about knowing a team’s overall weaknesses and about knowing players in general, and here he knows about as much or more than some of us.

    Our roster is hugely better. Perhaps because we’re sniffing out transfer news like a collective bloodhound, once things rumoured for a while happen it might be easier to take them a touch for granted. I can’t think of a better transfer window that’s we’ve had and we’ve had some good ones. Of course we haven’t had an instant tear down like this either, not very many have.
    Doyle's mastery of the english language far exceeds his soccer knowledge. He is a brilliant writer, but he's not a football tactician.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC/Everton View Post
    Doyle's mastery of the english language far exceeds his soccer knowledge. He is a brilliant writer, but he's not a football tactician.
    Maybe, but he knows the league and its transfer history.

  6. #4926
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    He's right about us having a great transfer window.

    Our front 6 is the best in the league

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    Solid transfer market for sure, but the fact that we're seeing Nelson in the midfield for a fourth (?) straight game means theres still a glaring need that wasnt addressed, regardless of the one injury.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo View Post
    Solid transfer market for sure, but the fact that we're seeing Nelson in the midfield for a fourth (?) straight game means theres still a glaring need that wasnt addressed, regardless of the one injury.
    Gotta admit, though, he is getting better. Playing better passes with his teammates rather than running headlong into nowhere all the time.

  9. #4929
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    Moving him into a role where he has to play two ways all the time and link up short seems to have limited the number of options and by consequence the bad decisions.

    Poz on fire for Miami tonight, two goals and an assist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Bradley has quite a big upside, and some downside too. He is having statistically one of his best seasons. He’s hooking up the back line and frontline, the wings and the back line. Mostly, he’s transitional passing and holding up the ball, and he’s completing about 85% of his passes.

    He’s averaging two tackles a game but that’s partly because he’s staying more tightly rooted to the area of the field he’s transitioned to (playing his zone tighter), which means he’s tackling when it’s prudent rather than trying to catch up to guys. So he’s not getting the five-to-seven you might get a game from a good anchor, but he’s doing okay.

    In an ideal world, he would probably be more of a role player and not ninety minutes. He has trouble defending in transition against some of the speed he faces. I’m not sure that hasn’t always been the case, past his first two seasons. He was never much of a natural number six.

    When our shape breaks down — either from kids doing too little or older players trying to do too much, typically — he becomes a liability, as he can’t shift zones quickly enough in quick transitions, and since shape breakdowns lead to gaps in coverage, he’s not really able to adapt and fill those gaps. I’d say from our limited view the same is also true of Mimmo Criscito, who has had to have coverage behind him several times already.

    A lot depends on team interplay. Both guys are pretty mammoth when the team is holding shape, moving the ball quickly, and supporting each other defensively. Both will be a problem if someone figures out how to stop us doing that.

    But given the rest of the first team’s quality, I’m not sure how much of a problem that will be. A lot depends on first team players staying healthy.

    I would say McNaughton is firmly starting quality. He had NINE aerial clearances against Nashville and hasn’t been beaten on the ground in a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    MacNaughton generally looks okay. After an initial adjustment period, his form has drifted between what I would call dependable backup or borderline starter.

    With Joel Waterman improving exponentially for Montreal (another former CPL player who plays CB), I wouldn’t be surprised if management rode this out. But I think I clear #1 “leader” CB is still a requirement regardless of who you paid that individual with. Mavinga not a sure thing at LCB either.

    I will let someone else comment on Bradley
    Thanks for the update! I watched a bit of the game yesterday. It looks like Bradley still has a good IQ and some suprisngly nice offensive plays this year. Hopefully the midfield will be good enough to make a run on the defensive side. The offence certainly looks great. Especially Oso, Laryea, Bernadeschi and Insgine. Insgine looks like he could be a Giovinco level player for us. Hopefully Kaye is back soon. He's a massive upgrade on Nelson. After being a die hard for 10 years I needed to take a break for a year or two but it was nice to see some quality again yesterday. It's finally good to be a TFC fan again.
    Last edited by Defoe; 08-14-2022 at 07:06 AM.

  11. #4931
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Moving him into a role where he has to play two ways all the time and link up short seems to have limited the number of options and by consequence the bad decisions.

    Poz on fire for Miami tonight, two goals and an assist.
    Poz also looped a ball to Higuain that sent him in alone, but the shot was saved. That was among the finest passes you will ever see.
    What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo View Post
    Solid transfer market for sure, but the fact that we're seeing Nelson in the midfield for a fourth (?) straight game means theres still a glaring need that wasnt addressed, regardless of the one injury.
    The transfer market literally upgraded on Nelson since MAK was brought in. He's covering that spot and 19 and frankly doing an amazing job in MLS 1 year younger than when Laryea staryed in L1 Ontario. Let it breathe people! We all bemone the lack of quality homegrown talent to support this club. This is exactly what it looks like to win while developing young players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by James17930 View Post
    Gotta admit, though, he is getting better. Playing better passes with his teammates rather than running headlong into nowhere all the time.
    Yes, hes improving quite a lot. Surprising that his primary benefit seems to be popping up between the lines and providing a relief option to get guys out of pressure and also progressive carrying through midfield. Not a winger role at all but more of a #8 type position like Delgado.

    Still slack defensively, needs to look forward more (hes overcorrected from trying to win the game every time he gets the ball) and blows the odd play. But in totality hes miles ahead of where he was even a few months ago.

    We forget, because hes been driving us bat-shit crazy for years, but hes still only 19 (and turns 20 next month).

    To me, in terms of overall progression (forget playing style), right now hes not that different from year-1 Tajon Buchanan with the Revs. If you check the history, their fan base was ready to shoot that guy out of a cannon and run him out of town. 18 months later he was their standout player.

    Not suggesting Nelson is going to get THAT good. But its not crazy to suggest he could become very serviceable and starter quality in the future. Which is something I never thought Id say watching his erratic play at the start of this year and prior seasons.

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    Nelson has benefitted from the presence of Insigne tremendously.

  15. #4935
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Nelson has benefitted from the presence of Insigne tremendously.
    Also playing like he's got less pressure to make things happen.

    Pleasantly surprised by his play recently

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Yes, hes improving quite a lot. Surprising that his primary benefit seems to be popping up between the lines and providing a relief option to get guys out of pressure and also progressive carrying through midfield. Not a winger role at all but more of a #8 type position like Delgado.

    Still slack defensively, needs to look forward more (hes overcorrected from trying to win the game every time he gets the ball) and blows the odd play. But in totality hes miles ahead of where he was even a few months ago.

    We forget, because hes been driving us bat-shit crazy for years, but hes still only 19 (and turns 20 next month).

    To me, in terms of overall progression (forget playing style), right now hes not that different from year-1 Tajon Buchanan with the Revs. If you check the history, their fan base was ready to shoot that guy out of a cannon and run him out of town. 18 months later he was their standout player.

    Not suggesting Nelson is going to get THAT good. But its not crazy to suggest he could become very serviceable and starter quality in the future. Which is something I never thought Id say watching his erratic play at the start of this year and prior seasons.
    Exactly this. You have to see where it goes. When Oso came in to the team there were those who would have bailed early on him and 9 or so years later he's a club legend. Nelson may never get there but you have to give him an honest chance and what the kids got early this season was not a recipe for success. Better that than having to spend millions to bring him back after he gets the time to develop elsewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    Also playing like he's got less pressure to make things happen.

    Pleasantly surprised by his play recently
    ^mostly this, also I think he isnt running at 115% and he has been coached (Insigne?) to run more controlled and running at 90% and making better decisions.

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    Good to see the Nelson praise here. Agreed it looks as if Insigne has taken a liking to him. Never thought he'd fit into the side as an 8, but he's looked alright.

    I think he pans long-term as a fringe MLS starter. If he puts it all together he could go further, certainly has the pace and technical ability.

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    nelson is definitely ahead of where oso was at this age, and seems to be improving every week.

    can see him being a decent rotational midfield option going forward which is incredibly useful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Good to see the Nelson praise here. Agreed it looks as if Insigne has taken a liking to him. Never thought he'd fit into the side as an 8, but he's looked alright.

    I think he pans long-term as a fringe MLS starter. If he puts it all together he could go further, certainly has the pace and technical ability.
    This is the biggest surprise. We're used to seeing him pick up the ball on the wing and run into nowhere, yet here he is now doing these intricate one-touch passing combos and re-setting attacks. Came out of nowhere.

  21. #4941
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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    nelson is definitely ahead of where oso was at this age, and seems to be improving every week.

    can see him being a decent rotational midfield option going forward which is incredibly useful.
    Oso was scoring clutch goals as a rookie. His decision making was hella better than Nelson's at that point too.

    Nelson is better technically, and better athlete than when Oso was 19

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    Quote Originally Posted by James17930 View Post
    This is the biggest surprise. We're used to seeing him pick up the ball on the wing and run into nowhere, yet here he is now doing these intricate one-touch passing combos and re-setting attacks. Came out of nowhere.
    Might be that hes been overthinking while on the ball in space as a winger. Now that everything is moving quickly in midfield, decisions come quicker because they have to.

    Hes shown glimpses of the one touch stuff, but I think thats been overshadowed by the decision making.

  23. #4943
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Might be that he’s been overthinking while on the ball in space as a winger. Now that everything is moving quickly in midfield, decisions come quicker because they have to.

    He’s shown glimpses of the one touch stuff, but I think that’s been overshadowed by the decision making.
    Yeah, I think this is the point both Yohan and myself were making; he’s got too many responsibilities playing two-way football to make bad choices.

    He did do it once in the second half. He was isolated on the wing and LI overlapped him and called for the ball. Nelson shook it off, cut inside on his own solo and we lost possession five seconds later.

    But it was only one, as opposed to the norm. I notice again though that it was while he was isolated wide. He’s been trained to try to come inside, probably both as trying to make him a winger and trying to turn him into LI’s backup, and he’s going to probably do that from time to time now until he’s told to just fucking stop (which, at once a game, they won’t and probably shouldn’t do, as they have to do some work on his instinctual choices, give him some rope).

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Good to see the Nelson praise here. Agreed it looks as if Insigne has taken a liking to him.
    Thank goodness. After their first game together I thought Insigne wanted to kill him. They switched his side of the field in the second half, moved Oso over, he was buggering it up so much.

    There much have been a discussion right after that game between the coaches and him about doing too much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Yeah, I think this is the point both Yohan and myself were making; he’s got too many responsibilities playing two-way football to make bad choices.

    He did do it once in the second half. He was isolated on the wing and LI overlapped him and called for the ball. Nelson shook it off, cut inside on his own solo and we lost possession five seconds later.

    But it was only one, as opposed to the norm. I notice again though that it was while he was isolated wide. He’s been trained to try to come inside, probably both as trying to make him a winger and trying to turn him into LI’s backup, and he’s going to probably do that from time to time now until he’s told to just fucking stop (which, at once a game, they won’t and probably shouldn’t do, as they have to do some work on his instinctual choices, give him some rope).
    I never thought wed find common ground talking about Nelson, jloome. Haha

    Agreed on the instinctual stuff. Hes hesitant to shoot right now, and it seems mainly because he feels the need to be absolutely sure its the best choice when he does. By that time its too late. He needs the rope.

  26. #4946
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    Oso was scoring clutch goals as a rookie. His decision making was hella better than Nelson's at that point too.

    Nelson is better technically, and better athlete than when Oso was 19
    i remember that oso had a lot of the same flaws nelson had, even up to the 2016 season (held onto the ball too long, poor decision making at times).

    i think playing with insigne and bernardeschi is a game changer for nelson.

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    Nelson definitely needs to clean up his passing. He is at 82% or so for the year (and in that game). When he's playing w Bradley and Oso (90%+) that will stick out. But some of the issue is the passes he's receiving from the CBs, and the fact that he's trying to link very intricately with some crazy talented players near the oposition box too. He's often having to use his dribbling and guile in the midfield to hold the ball before he moves it. Clearly the instructions are to try to move the ball in a intentional manner, so that the team can move as a unit, and then Criscito, Bernardeschi, and Insigne have the free reign to pass as direct as they see fit. Not a criticism, but Bernardeschi was at 70% accuracy in the last game which is not good, but clearly because he's always trying to make something happen. On Nelson though - it will be interesting to see if, as he gets more comfortable, his accuracy numbers improve. There was lots to like from the last game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    i remember that oso had a lot of the same flaws nelson had, even up to the 2016 season (held onto the ball too long, poor decision making at times).

    i think playing with insigne and bernardeschi is a game changer for nelson.
    Totally. I remember hating on Oso all the time when he was younger. The expectation that Nelson has little to know flaws at the age of 19 is crazy to me. As a fan base, we need to realize that it will take years for players to hone their skills. If Nelson didnt have flaws, chances are he wouldnt be here and there wouldve been a euro club seeking his signature already. That level of talent is extremely rare.

    Overall hes getting better and I think he has the right attitude to continue to improve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaceyWinger View Post
    Nelson definitely needs to clean up his passing. He is at 82% or so for the year (and in that game). When he's playing w Bradley and Oso (90%+) that will stick out. But some of the issue is the passes he's receiving from the CBs, and the fact that he's trying to link very intricately with some crazy talented players near the oposition box too. He's often having to use his dribbling and guile in the midfield to hold the ball before he moves it. Clearly the instructions are to try to move the ball in a intentional manner, so that the team can move as a unit, and then Criscito, Bernardeschi, and Insigne have the free reign to pass as direct as they see fit. Not a criticism, but Bernardeschi was at 70% accuracy in the last game which is not good, but clearly because he's always trying to make something happen. On Nelson though - it will be interesting to see if, as he gets more comfortable, his accuracy numbers improve. There was lots to like from the last game.
    Bernie had two or three very sloppy passes but they each looked like he'd slightly underestimated the speed of the guy in cover, as they were forced.

    it might be that in realizing how MLS lags behind in tactics and discipline, he underestimated the athleticism of the defenders here. He'll figure out those tolerances pretty quickly I imagine.

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    Still think Nelson is a defensive liability

 

 

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