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  1. #5551
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    There's a problem with the "everyone" term here. In fact, how much different groups of people post varies a great deal from game to game.
    Fair enough. A bunch of people said we are pretty good or even great right now but for Bono, I said I don't think so, and a bunch of posters gave me the full "you are an idiot and an unworthy fan" treatment. This was last Tuesday or Wednesday, I think. I have been doing this for too long to keep track of who said what (it doesn't matter anyway) but that was, by far, the weight of opinion that day.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  2. #5552
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Fair enough. A bunch of people said we are pretty good or even great right now but for Bono, I said I don't think so, and a bunch of posters gave me the full "you are an idiot and an unworthy fan" treatment. This was last Tuesday or Wednesday, I think. I have been doing this for too long to keep track of who said what (it doesn't matter anyway) but that was, by far, the weight of opinion that day.
    For sure, lots of hyperbole! I actually stayed off the boards for a bit until after the Orlando game because things were getting to me.

  3. #5553
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    For sure, lots of hyperbole! I actually stayed off the boards for a bit until after the Orlando game because things were getting to me.
    Speaking of hyberbole....

    Jayden two spots ahead of Jakeel at 20 and 22 respectively in the new top 22 under 22.

    https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/2022-...d-by-bodyarmor

    Institutional biases and politics feel like they play strongly in this one.

    Doyle seems to think the switch inside to midfield from wing is permanent for Nelson. I'm not sure they have any idea what to do with him; bags of talent, no football IQ. The improvement probably had more to do with increased defensive responsibilities taking away the opportunities to make as many bad choices.

    Yesterday he suggested Jayden should be able to "Seamlessly" replace Kaye or Osorio in the midfield, which goes to how closely MLssoccer.com actually watches our team.

  4. #5554
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    So in terms of the offseason, we can only add 4 new international players. We traded one international slot to Colorado in the Kaye trade. There are the 3 extra international slots for Canadian teams that can be used on players who have been here for a full season.

    Extra Slot 1 - Achara
    Extra Slot 2 - Mavinga
    Extra Slot 3 - Jimenez (He will be able to occupy this spot as of February)
    Regular 1 - Bernadeschi
    Regular 2 - Insigne
    Regular 3 - Criscito
    Regular 4 -
    Regular 5 -
    Regular 6 -
    Regular 7 -
    Regular 8 - (TRADED)

    So, getting rid of any of Achara, Mavinga, and/or Jimenez won't free up any international slots for us because there's no one else eligible to fill up the bonus slots, since the Italians haven't been here long enough. (I'm not saying we need to/should resign them, but getting rid of them does not enable us to replace them with other internationals). Getting rid of them only frees up salary space (which of course is still valuable)

    I'm not sure how the extra international spots work in regards to when a player can begin to occupy them (ie. would the Italian trio be allowed to occupy those spots come the summer in which case we could add new internationals in the summer window, or does it only take effect at the beginning of a season)
    Last edited by rydermike; 09-20-2022 at 01:32 PM.

  5. #5555
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    Westberg isn't considered an international? ( I think he's gone so it doesn't matter)

  6. #5556
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Westberg isn't considered an international? ( I think he's gone so it doesn't matter)
    He played for the USA youth teams. His dad was American

  7. #5557
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    Transfermarkt has dramatically increased the value of several of our players without too many decreases. Adding in Insigne's still- $22M transfer value and our roster's combined transfer value is now, allegedly, $66 million.

    https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/2022-...d-by-bodyarmor

    Among the notables:
    Ayo Akinola is now rated at $4.4M
    MAK is now rated at $4.4M
    Jayden Nelson is now rated at $3.85M
    JMR is now at $3.3M
    Jesus Jimenez is now rated at $2.75M
    Shaff is now rated at $2.2M
    DeAndre Kerr is now rated at $1.65M (!)
    Lukas McNaughton is now rated at $1.1M
    Luca Petrasso is now at $880K

    They may be retooling MLS values compared to other leagues or something, I don't know. Our defense is collectively worth about a pack of bazooka bubblegum in comparison, it should be noted.

  8. #5558
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    what a overpayment it was for was for kaye around 1.5 in gam when you add the value of a top 3 pick and a intl spot for next season,and a good prospect in priso,and kaye is making in 800k.

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    The Kaye pickup was really for next season tbh, seeing as he came with an injury.

    Doubt he's even played a game fully fit for us yet, way too early to judge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    The Kaye pickup was really for next season tbh, seeing as he came with an injury.

    Doubt he's even played a game fully fit for us yet, way too early to judge.
    his game has gone downhill for 2 years ,even bob in LA starting taking him off after 55 - 60 every game before they moved him,they could do alot better for that money .if they only scouted

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    Was just going to post this too. What it means for us is no MLS team will be able to outbid us for Oso. This should mean the only competition for his services would come from overseas (unless there is a significant sign and trade offer). Also means we won’t be able to make Long a DP. Which is also good for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noxx98 View Post
    Was just going to post this too. What it means for us is no MLS team will be able to outbid us for Oso. This should mean the only competition for his services would come from overseas (unless there is a significant sign and trade offer). Also means we won’t be able to make Long a DP. Which is also good for us.
    and also a limit on what sean johnson is likely to be offered too

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    The lengths and convoluted rulesets this league will goto to suppress wages is incredible

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    The above and Mancini’s comments make the club look like it pressured Oso and Insigne into playing against Orlando. Not a good look.
    What did Mancini say?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rydermike View Post
    What did Mancini say?
    That Insigne would probably be with Italy squad if not for his personal circumstances

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    The above and Mancini’s comments make the club look like it pressured Oso and Insigne into playing against Orlando. Not a good look.
    Not true, oso spoke to the press midweek and said he was feeling good and hoped to play in Orlando.

    And as for insigne, there's no evidence he was pressured to return.

    The club has generally treated players really well (see Salcedo earlier this year).

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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    Not true, oso spoke to the press midweek and said he was feeling good and hoped to play in Orlando.

    And as for insigne, there's no evidence he was pressured to return.

    The club has generally treated players really well (see Salcedo earlier this year).
    MLSE also has the private jet, so could be that he was flown in and out and was away from his family for hours, while going to Italy he'd be gone for a week.

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    Earlier this year TFC also held their flight back for over an hour as Insigne decided if he was able to fly out for a game. They let Criscito miss practice to be with Insigne. They've given time off to Mavinga for his mental health issues. There's a lot of areas to critique TFC and management, but I don't think this is it.

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    Shaffelburg with two assists in Nashville's Leagues Cup Showcase 3-3 penalties win over Club America.

    Two goals and two assists in six appearances for Nashville. Why when we need competitive depth at all
    positions are we going to lose own of our best young Canadians to
    Nashville? Because they ARE going to exercise the purchase option, they'd be nuts not to.

  23. #5573
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Shaffelburg with two assists in Nashville's Leagues Cup Showcase 3-3 penalties win over Club America.

    Two goals and two assists in six appearances for Nashville. Why when we need competitive depth at all
    positions are we going to lose own of our best young Canadians to
    Nashville? Because they ARE going to exercise the purchase option, they'd be nuts not to.
    Yeah I'm really scratching my head at a few of these moves we have made..this one particular. Like you said we need depth and he would be the perfect candidate to come on for Insigne or let him have a bit of a rest every now and then. Nelson works better in the middle of the park (at least that's what he has shown..) so the only thing I can think is that Bob is going to use Nelson as Insigne's depth replacement and push him back out wide. What a waste of a year for Shaff here, why try to force him back into a left back role when he was doing fine as a winger...and you had Petrasso who played left back..so many strange decisions. For a guy we keep saying isn't flexible, Bob sure is flexible with moving players around and out of position. It is bringing back vibes of last year when Armas tried playing Delgado on the right wing and moved Auro up to the DM...like just throwing stuff at the wall to see if it sticks?

  24. #5574
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    Quote Originally Posted by 613reppingTFC View Post
    Yeah I'm really scratching my head at a few of these moves we have made..this one particular. Like you said we need depth and he would be the perfect candidate to come on for Insigne or let him have a bit of a rest every now and then. Nelson works better in the middle of the park (at least that's what he has shown..) so the only thing I can think is that Bob is going to use Nelson as Insigne's depth replacement and push him back out wide. What a waste of a year for Shaff here, why try to force him back into a left back role when he was doing fine as a winger...and you had Petrasso who played left back..so many strange decisions. For a guy we keep saying isn't flexible, Bob sure is flexible with moving players around and out of position. It is bringing back vibes of last year when Armas tried playing Delgado on the right wing and moved Auro up to the DM...like just throwing stuff at the wall to see if it sticks?
    Yeah, it's nebulous; BB explains nothing publicly and the media regularly covering the team are substandard in their ability to ask relevant questions; most of the sports media have become cowed by the nature of the business, employers being more likely to side with a whining source than them.

    The game AFTER Jayden filled in centrally... he moved him back wide again. I mean, it seemed screamingly obvious that he is a better player when his two-way responsibilities limit his choices (as is Michael, as is MAK, as was Delagado; some guys are number eights for reasons). This was confirmed a game later when he made Young Players of the Week for his performance.

    It was as if he had templates for where players fit and damned if they didn't actually fit, he was going to cram them in there.

    Man, if we lose Shaffelburg and he has the sort of career he looks like having, it's going to take a fucking title for me to support this guy.

    That's the way I feel after this season. I'm not saying I'm opposed to BB as head coach, because he hasn't had the promised fullness of a rebuild yet. But the way he handed Shaffelburg feels like he is a poor judge of potential and character. That kid bleeds hard work and loving his team. He gives him spot duty... and he gets assists.

    Given that Armas and the Bradleys are super close -- Bob is Chris's coaching mentor, basically -- I do have to wonder how much of the shit Altidore was talking about was Armas and Michael. He thought they were trying to hard-ass kids into being ready, telling them to toughen up and realize they have to work harder to win, and Jozy -- who has never had a sufficient work rate as a striker to match his ability -- took offense to their tone.

    If MB and BB were on Armas' "side" last season, it stands to reason that they were probably selling Manning that last season was impatience, that they could "play the kids" and be successful, it was just abandoned too quickly. Last season, they would have argued, failed due to locker-room cancers, not bad coaching. So they moved everyone out and...

    They just adjusted the tactics from Red Bull "gegenpress" to Bob's preferred high-pressure Total Football style, with rotating positions, people dropping into each other's positions to cover.

    If that linear logic holds -- and I don't know that it does, I'm spitballing based on normal human behavior -- then the decisions this year were very much "proof of concept" from BB and Michael to the front office.

    But, if that's the case, it clearly didn't work. Do we see some consequences of that, or do they get a pass?

    (EDIT: AS some of you know, I'm on the autism spectrum, so I'm really not the best judge of how loyalty plays into these things. But I do wonder whether Shaff getting so much love from Perez last year is something these guys can't see past.)
    Last edited by jloome; 09-22-2022 at 10:51 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post

    The game AFTER Jayden filled in centrally... he moved him back wide again. I mean, it seemed screamingly obvious that he is a better player when his two-way responsibilities limit his choices (as is Michael, as is MAK, as was Delagado; some guys are number eights for reasons). This was confirmed a game later when he made Young Players of the Week for his performance.
    Yeah, he’s way better in midfield than as a wide player (although still developing). It gives more value to his close control, his tendency to want to move towards the ball to provide an outlet rather than stretch the field is an asset as opposed to an annoyance in midfield, and as you said, forces him to make decisions faster.

  26. #5576
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Yeah, it's nebulous; BB explains nothing publicly and the media regularly covering the team are substandard in their ability to ask relevant questions; most of the sports media have become cowed by the nature of the business, employers being more likely to side with a whining source than them.

    The game AFTER Jayden filled in centrally... he moved him back wide again. I mean, it seemed screamingly obvious that he is a better player when his two-way responsibilities limit his choices (as is Michael, as is MAK, as was Delagado; some guys are number eights for reasons). This was confirmed a game later when he made Young Players of the Week for his performance.

    It was as if he had templates for where players fit and damned if they didn't actually fit, he was going to cram them in there.

    Man, if we lose Shaffelburg and he has the sort of career he looks like having, it's going to take a fucking title for me to support this guy.

    That's the way I feel after this season. I'm not saying I'm opposed to BB as head coach, because he hasn't had the promised fullness of a rebuild yet. But the way he handed Shaffelburg feels like he is a poor judge of potential and character. That kid bleeds hard work and loving his team. He gives him spot duty... and he gets assists.

    Given that Armas and the Bradleys are super close -- Bob is Chris's coaching mentor, basically -- I do have to wonder how much of the shit Altidore was talking about was Armas and Michael. He thought they were trying to hard-ass kids into being ready, telling them to toughen up and realize they have to work harder to win, and Jozy -- who has never had a sufficient work rate as a striker to match his ability -- took offense to their tone.

    If MB and BB were on Armas' "side" last season, it stands to reason that they were probably selling Manning that last season was impatience, that they could "play the kids" and be successful, it was just abandoned too quickly. Last season, they would have argued, failed due to locker-room cancers, not bad coaching. So they moved everyone out and...

    They just adjusted the tactics from Red Bull "gegenpress" to Bob's preferred high-pressure Total Football style, with rotating positions, people dropping into each other's positions to cover.

    If that linear logic holds -- and I don't know that it does, I'm spitballing based on normal human behavior -- then the decisions this year were very much "proof of concept" from BB and Michael to the front office.

    But, if that's the case, it clearly didn't work. Do we see some consequences of that, or do they get a pass?

    (EDIT: AS some of you know, I'm on the autism spectrum, so I'm really not the best judge of how loyalty plays into these things. But I do wonder whether Shaff getting so much love from Perez last year is something these guys can't see past.)
    I’m thinking BB has certain well-honed ideas of what kind of players will work best within his conception of football. So, Shaff (can play left wing only and while effective it’s not going to be anything like total football) no, Petrasso (took to left back quickly, is a bit more horizontal as a winger, could play the other side or in the middle in a pinch) yes.

    There seems to be strong loyalty demands made by Bob on his players but it seems to be part of his idea of what a successful team must be rather than any personal vindictiveness. I don’t get a vibe that he’s underhanded or manipulative. If another manager favoured a player and that player was going to ‘give his all’ I’d be surprised if he was let go simply for having gotten playing time earlier.

    Of course, I don’t know the guy at all. I think that coaching your son, who you obviously respect and in a sense have coached all your (and his life) even from a distance makes that situation different. If the son is younger it’s probably a win/win situation. But even though BB is getting better play out of MB than we’ve seen in years it would be f-ing difficult to see that situation clearly and bench his son.

    Armas seemed to be a tough guy who had zero communication skills whereas Bradley, overall, seems to have much more intelligence and nuance. Compared to Vanney’s approach though he can be a bit of a bruiser. Now again, I don’t know the guy and know nothing really… just watching his post game interviews and his team.
    Last edited by los sonadores; 09-22-2022 at 04:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by los sonadores View Post
    I’m thinking BB has certain well-honed ideas of what kind of players will work best within his conception of football. So, Shaff (can play left wing only and while effective it’s not going to be anything like total football) no, Petrasso (took to left back quickly, is a bit more horizontal as a winger, could play the other side or in the middle in a pinch) yes.

    There seems to be strong loyalty demands made by Bob on his players but it seems to be part of his idea of what a successful team must be rather than any personal vindictiveness. I don’t get a vibe that he’s underhanded or manipulative. If another manager favoured a player and that player was going to ‘give his all’ I’d be surprised if he was let go simply for having gotten playing time earlier.

    Of course, I don’t know the guy at all. I think that coaching your son, who you obviously respect and in a sense have coached all your (and his life) even from a distance makes that situation different. If the son is younger it’s probably a win/win situation. But even though BB is getting better play out of MB than we’ve seen in years it would be f-ing difficult to see that situation clearly and bench his son.

    Armas seemed to be a tough guy who had zero communication skills whereas Bradley, overall, seems to have much more intelligence and nuance. Compared to Vanney’s approach though he can be a bit of a bruiser. Now again, I don’t know the guy and know nothing really… just watching his post game interviews and his team.
    I can seem that rationale… but Shaff is 22, not 28. The difference between a winger and an inverted winger is clearly teachable. we’ve already seen him drift into the box and score from wide left; he did it last season, he did it in his first game for Nashville. So it’s not as if he’s even some sort of hard case.

    And even if he’s not quite ready as an inverted, we still need a dangerous backup for Insigne. Who is a bigger goal and assist threat in your opinion? Jayden Nelson or Shaffelburg?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    ....
    And even if he’s not quite ready as an inverted, we still need a dangerous backup for Insigne. Who is a bigger goal and assist threat in your opinion? Jayden Nelson or Shaffelburg?
    Nelson only began to play well when Insigne was telling him exactly where to go.

    I get the feeling MB doesn't know how to motivate players anymore while the Italians do.

    Don't forget, MB is 8 years removed now from the fire of Serie A. As Jozy says in his interview, training in MLS is somewhat scattered as far as how much people take it seriously. I can see MB being a work hard guy but losing that edge slowly over the last 8 years. When guys lose that edge themselves, they may or may not ask more of those around them then they can ask of themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    I can seem that rationale… but Shaff is 22, not 28. The difference between a winger and an inverted winger is clearly teachable. we’ve already seen him drift into the box and score from wide left; he did it last season, he did it in his first game for Nashville. So it’s not as if he’s even some sort of hard case.

    And even if he’s not quite ready as an inverted, we still need a dangerous backup for Insigne. Who is a bigger goal and assist threat in your opinion? Jayden Nelson or Shaffelburg?
    Oh, I totally agree. Simply trying to understand Bradley’s thinking. I don’t think its random or, say, vindictive.

    I’d have kept Shaff and man, if winning is the objective you really should have backs that have played that position before… not to mention some depth. Shaff looked lost at RB but he shouldn’t have been playing there to begin with.
    Last edited by los sonadores; 09-22-2022 at 11:04 PM.

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    Kaye looks like he’s going to have to get back into game shape (from watching Canada this afternoon). Fingers crossed he does

 

 

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