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  1. #5491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    They're cheap though and getting cheaper.
    It's the Whitecaps. They would sign him to a TAM-level deal and just not buy him down and call him a DP, since technically TAMs are DPs who can be bought down, like they do with Cavallini ($1.4 million salary).


    Edit: Actually, he did come with a transfer fee, so maybe it's that that makes him a full DP and un-TAMable, even though they'd probably still have called him a DP not a TAM if not for that
    Last edited by rydermike; 09-16-2022 at 01:32 PM.

  2. #5492
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydermike View Post
    It's the Whitecaps. They would sign him to a TAM-level deal and just not buy him down and call him a DP, since technically TAMs are DPs who can be bought down, like they do with Cavallini ($1.4 million salary).


    Edit: Actually, he did come with a transfer fee, so maybe it's that that makes him a full DP and un-TAMable, even though they'd probably still have called him a DP not a TAM if not for that
    Yeah but I see us offering him $1.6M so they would legit have to make him a DP to get him and I don't see them doing that when they could get some other TAM guy and frame him as a DP.

  3. #5493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Inbetween View Post
    DAZN Italia... TFC: Toronto - Little Italy... feature...

    Insigne and Criscito are my kind of footballers... character wise; full-stop.
    And why I have an affinity for MBradley.

    Yet, Bernardeschi...
    His performance/s aside... his personality... it draws one in; it is infectious.
    I am lucky to understand Italian. Some of this comes across in his broken English; like his 'Com'on TFC' ear-worm!
    If it wasn't for that language barrier though, for others missing a nuanced understanding in the way he communicates,
    The ease and humility, a twinkle of wonderment in his eyes...
    Maybe, probably, TFC's best 'complete marketing package' signing ever so far.

    In a segment of that feature...
    He is presented with a gift of image personalized footballing moments guitar picks...
    Enjoys, loves to play; a passion of his.
    Asked if he has any regrets...
    Replies without pause... No... None/Zero...( explains with all that he has been a part of, done, accomplished with his teammates at club and national levels)...
    Then states...
    If I close my eyes, (go back and) ask that boy at Fiorentina (Youth), what dreams did you have?
    These!

    BTW, thanks DAZN, rumours visually confirmed...
    Lives west-side, in my neighborhood!
    Basically, just down the street.
    About a 5 minute walk / kilometer from my home.
    Berna will be captain of TFC if Osorio doesn't want it. Mark my words.

  4. #5494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuushalinsky View Post
    Berna will be captain of TFC if Osorio doesn't want it. Mark my words.
    I agree but I like it better when we have a big mouth wearing the armband. MB has disappointed me with his mellowing out over the past few years. I used to like it when he would look pained while tapping the sides of his head in a "WTF" way when the ref was trying to explain a ridiculous call to him.

  5. #5495
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Inbetween View Post
    In regards to the Y23 MLS/PA Free Agency List - Out of Contract/Option...

    Roster starters, and/or depth, worth a consideration?...

    Possible leading / preferred candidates shortlist with latest salary? In no order of...

    GK...
    Crepeau - 302K
    Hamid - 700K
    Johnson - 550K

    D...
    Hollingshead - 394K
    Long - 1.080M
    Lundkvist - 373K
    Mavinga - 1.038M
    Robinson - 738K
    Tinnerholm - 800K

    M...
    Blessing - 417K
    Gressel - 970K
    Osorio - 1.026M
    Moralez - 1.3M
    Morris Jordan - 1.3M
    Piette - 430K
    we need to sign as many of the D guys as possible and a GK. Blessing would be a bonus.

  6. #5496
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuushalinsky View Post
    we need to sign as many of the D guys as possible and a GK. Blessing would be a bonus.
    Johnson & two of the D players not named Mavinga and we're good to go.

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    Aaron Long situation is quite similar to Oso.

    He is likely to be a starter in Qatar.

    If he has a halfway decent WC he is guaranteed to get DP money somewhere.

    Very hard to imagine him winding up at TFC in any scenario.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  8. #5498
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Aaron Long situation is quite similar to Oso.

    He is likely to be a starter in Qatar.

    If he has a halfway decent WC he is guaranteed to get DP money somewhere.

    Very hard to imagine him winding up at TFC in any scenario.
    I doubt Oso gets DP level money anywhere. A news piece on a neurological condition isn't going to instill faith in potential buyers.

  9. #5499
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Aaron Long situation is quite similar to Oso.

    He is likely to be a starter in Qatar.

    If he has a halfway decent WC he is guaranteed to get DP money somewhere.

    Very hard to imagine him winding up at TFC in any scenario.
    He's had interest overseas for years but no one has come in for him. I guess because he's free he might get better money in Europe, but anything about about $1.5M is pretty much star player/premiership/la liga money. Not many guys in the Championship or France getting more than that per season.

    He's NYRB captain, too. Leadership in the backline would be welcome here.

    (Edit: Also, pretty sure he won't be starting in Qatar. Carter-Vickers at Celtic, Zimmerman, Chris Richards (Crystal Palace) Joe Scalley (Moenchengladbach) are all playing at a higher level, and consistently. Ream hasn't been called yet but he's one of the best defenders in the Premiership this season, so... Long will go, but I doubt he starts).

    I think he's already near the TAM cap, if I recall, so we'd have to a DP anyway. Walker Zimmerman's getting over $2M a season now, I believe. Not sure Long is in the same category (Zimmerman could play anywhere, I think) but he's still pretty dominant by MLS standards.
    Last edited by jloome; 09-16-2022 at 08:23 PM.

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    Alexander Callens is a much more likely target. Long is gonna be a DP. Get Sean Johnson and Callens and we are MLS Cup favorites.

  11. #5501
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post

    (Edit: Also, pretty sure he won't be starting in Qatar. Carter-Vickers at Celtic, Zimmerman, Chris Richards (Crystal Palace) Joe Scalley (Moenchengladbach) are all playing at a higher level, and consistently. Ream hasn't been called yet but he's one of the best defenders in the Premiership this season, so... Long will go, but I doubt he starts).
    I will bet you a pint Long starts at least one of the Wales or England games in Doha.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I doubt Oso gets DP level money anywhere. A news piece on a neurological condition isn't going to instill faith in potential buyers.
    Agree… unless he does something in November. Every WC there are 5 or 10 guys who get paid because they did something that got noticed at the World Cup .

    Oso, going back to those goals in 2018 CCL, or the goal at the Azteca last year… he has a way of coming through.

    But yeah, it’s nothing like a certainty.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    For what its worth, MLS writers feel Long and Callens will both go for around max TAM rather than a true DP deal. https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/top-f...ng-salloi-more

  14. #5504
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I will bet you a pint Long starts at least one of the Wales or England games in Doha.
    I'll take that bet!

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    Neither Berna or Insigne were called up for Italy. Not surprising as they've been looking to rotate in some younger players since they were knocked out of the WC. https://football-italia.net/mancini-...taly-call-ups/

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    the zimmerman contract is a benchmark, and was just over 1 M.
    no one is paying a 30 year old aaron long over 1.6 M btw lmao

    reminder that this was the team that came in for oso recently.

    he'd have been taking a big wage cut to move.

    https://salarysport.com/football/sup...panathinaikos/
    Last edited by leedsandTFC; 09-17-2022 at 02:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    the zimmerman contract is a benchmark, and was just over 1 M.
    no one is paying a 30 year old aaron long over 1.6 M btw lmao

    reminder that this was the team that came in for oso recently.

    he'd have been taking a big wage cut to move.

    https://salarysport.com/football/sup...panathinaikos/
    LOL, I just looked it up. Zimmerman is on 1.1M., Hany Mukhtar, a candidate for MVP, is on 1.6M

    Manning really has to fucking go.

  18. #5508
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    LOL, I just looked it up. Zimmerman is on 1.1M., Hany Mukhtar, a candidate for MVP, is on 1.6M

    Manning really has to fucking go.
    Yeh, we got problems with recruitment but for every Zimmerman & Mukhtar, there are dozens of misses.

  19. #5509
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    LOL, I just looked it up. Zimmerman is on 1.1M., Hany Mukhtar, a candidate for MVP, is on 1.6M

    Manning really has to fucking go.
    Zimmerman's new deal has him on $2.5M. I also don't mind TFC spending big on DPs if it means there's a higher success rate. For every Mukhtar there's an Ager Aketxe (who was on $1.3M back in 2018).

    But your point on our overall recruitment weakness stands

  20. #5510
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    Quote Originally Posted by noxx98 View Post
    Zimmerman's new deal has him on $2.5M. I also don't mind TFC spending big on DPs if it means there's a higher success rate. For every Mukhtar there's an Ager Aketxe (who was on $1.3M back in 2018).

    But your point on our overall recruitment weakness stands
    its lazy scouting by this club,like kaye,im sure you can find a pretty good player in the 1 mil to 1.5 mil range around the world but they took the easy way out with a overpayment on guy that has been going downhill for 2 years

  21. #5511
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    I've tried to hold off on criticism too much, but Bradley to me is similar to Armas in that it's "my way or the highway". To me a good coach needs to adapt a style of play around the players he has, not forcing the players into their one main strategy. As much as I didn't always agree with him, Vanney tinkered with different formations and strategies all the time. Perez also was willing to try new things. Yes, sometimes you can tinker and try to change things too often (which is what I think did Perez in) and some stability in strategy is good even through some rough patches, but you can't have little to no willingness to adapt at all. It's a tough balancing act, but that's why it's a tough job.

    Armas was hell-bent on a pressing system on a team full of old and slow players. Bradley seems hell-bent on his 4-3-3 build around MB in the middle and wingers and if you can't adapt to his style (Pozuelo and soon-to-be Jimenez, goodbye). You need flexibility. This style is not working, so why not try a different formation or strategy next game, we're already eliminated. See if something else works. If we see the exact same thing these last two games, then it will confirm it, BB is not very flexible.
    Last edited by rydermike; 09-17-2022 at 10:23 PM.

  22. #5512
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    Quote Originally Posted by noxx98 View Post
    Zimmerman's new deal has him on $2.5M. I also don't mind TFC spending big on DPs if it means there's a higher success rate. For every Mukhtar there's an Ager Aketxe (who was on $1.3M back in 2018).

    But your point on our overall recruitment weakness stands
    Zimmerman makes about 800,000 - 1,000,000 more than our 4 centerbacks combined… (though I’m not sure what’s Doneil’s on… presumably not much after being released by LA).

  23. #5513
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydermike View Post
    I've tried to hold off on criticism too much, but Bradley to me is similar to Armas in that it's "my way or the highway". To me a good coach needs to adapt a style of play around the players he has, not forcing the players into their one main strategy. As much as I didn't always agree with him, Vanney tinkered with different formations and strategies all the time. Perez also was willing to try new things. Yes, sometimes you can tinker and try to change things too often (which is what I think did Perez in) and some stability in strategy is good even through some rough patches, but you can't have little to no willingness to adapt at all. It's a tough balancing act, but that's why it's a tough job.

    Armas was hell-bent on a pressing system on a team full of old and slow players. Bradley seems hell-bent on his 4-3-3 build around MB in the middle and wingers and if you can't adapt to his style (Pozuelo and soon-to-be Jimenez, goodbye). You need flexibility. This style is not working, so why not try a different formation or strategy next game, we're already eliminated. See if something else works. If we see the exact same thing these last two games, then it will confirm it, BB is not very flexible.
    Agreed.

    Basically the bige difference between a Vanney and a BB is Vanney works on flexibility and adjusting to the players he has and his opponent. His greatest example was shocking Seattle in the 2017 MLS Cup final where Seattle was completely disoriented by a change in formation and play leading to the TFC victory.

    BB is an old school coach who plays a fixed system and needs players to play his system. That's why he's the GM as well, he needs a player and a backup for every position that plays his way and he knows what he wants. He can and has won when he's been able to get the pieces in place. There are serious limitations though with this approach. For example you are caught flat footed if you don't have the preferred players. I'm personally not a fan of of this approach although in fairness BB>Armas.

    The best coaches in the world tend to take the flexible approach. It could be that MLS has matured to the point where BB's methodology no longer works.

  24. #5514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Agreed.

    Basically the bige difference between a Vanney and a BB is Vanney works on flexibility and adjusting to the players he has and his opponent. His greatest example was shocking Seattle in the 2017 MLS Cup final where Seattle was completely disoriented by a change in formation and play leading to the TFC victory.

    BB is an old school coach who plays a fixed system and needs players to play his system. That's why he's the GM as well, he needs a player and a backup for every position that plays his way and he knows what he wants. He can and has won when he's been able to get the pieces in place. There are serious limitations though with this approach. For example you are caught flat footed if you don't have the preferred players. I'm personally not a fan of of this approach although in fairness BB>Armas.

    The best coaches in the world tend to take the flexible approach. It could be that MLS has matured to the point where BB's methodology no longer works.
    Oh yes I agree with all of you. I just posted something similar in yesterday's game thread. Maybe I should move it here instead.

    Even Vanney had to learn this. I remember he admitted in an interview that he was naive at first, thinking that things would just work out as planned.

    I'm not sure if BB is interested in learning much more.
    Last edited by Auzzy; 09-18-2022 at 10:45 AM.

  25. #5515
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    Similar to the points raised above: my general issue with BB is that I don't think inflexibility works in this league. First of all it's extremely difficult to even assemble the "perfect" roster, due to salary cap and other restrictions. And some of the players you bring in just won't work out the way you thought.

    Beyond that, no roster remains stable throughout the season. You have to survive even when two or more of your best players, plus a couple of your second stringers are not available. It's gonna happen, between injuries, national team absences, multiple games in a row on shit surfaces and/or crap weather and/or awful travel. If you overuse your best players in that environment, it's just gonna get worse eventually.

    You're never going to have the flexibility of top European leagues and teams, where your bench is good enough to step up and perform almost as well "in your system" as the starters.

    Of course an MLS team will do worse on average if a couple of DPs or other key players are missing. But you have to find a way to play that still gives your team a chance. You can't be giving up 2-4 goals per game repeatedly.

    Better is the enemy of good.

    Up until recently, I still thought that dumping BB now was madness. That due to the associated turmoil, you had to stick it out for a few years, let him build his roster and see how it goes. I'm starting to think that less and less.

    And this I said even before BB started: that I was worried the team would never really turn over a new leaf under BB. That's due to the fact that MB stayed, and had a huge roll on the team since 2014. And he will continue to have an outsize roll under his dad. He's been a great soldier, but I'm concerned that a bunch of issues may continue to fester.

    On the other hand, I think there's no chance that BB gets canned now. They'll get another year at least, for better or for worse. If things don't improve, maybe then we'll move on from Bill Manning, BB, and MB. We also have to see what impact Bell's cost cutting might have.
    Last edited by Auzzy; 09-18-2022 at 10:56 AM.

  26. #5516
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Never count out the whitecaps from doing something stupid.
    Uhh... worse...
    Do not count out Club Foot...

    https://www.mountroyalsoccer.com/202...any-are-saying

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    Its weird. I can’t keep straight who posted what, but a number of people last week were very vocally saying that we were were pretty close to contending right now, but for Bono. Now a few days later, everyone seems to want BB gone.

    The funny thing is, these last three games, against playoff teams and with us out regardless… I would say you should expect us to suck in these games regardless of your view of how close we are.

    We are better than we looked yesterday, even if you don’t think we are all that good! Playing out the string is always a recipe for suckitude.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    Alexander Callens is a much more likely target. Long is gonna be a DP. Get Sean Johnson and Callens and we are MLS Cup favorites.
    Duh! Whoops! Apologies.
    Missed Callens. Agree... a solid candidate.
    For some reason I thought he was out of contention with a season-ending injury?
    Obviously not. Had returned several matches/weeks ago.
    Even got a goal in the Campeones!

    Again... in regards to the Y23 MLS/PA Free Agency List - Out of Contract/Option...

    Roster starters, and/or depth, worth a consideration?...

    Possible leading / preferred candidates shortlist with latest salary? In no order of...

    Revised...

    GK...
    Crepeau - 302K
    Hamid - 700K
    Johnson - 550K

    D...
    Callens - 814K
    Hollingshead - 394K
    Long - 1.080M
    Lundkvist - 373K
    Mavinga - 1.038M
    Robinson - 738K
    Tinnerholm - 800K

    M...
    Blessing - 417K
    Gressel - 970K
    Osorio - 1.026M
    Moralez - 1.3M
    Morris Jordan - 1.3M
    Piette - 430K
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 09-18-2022 at 01:05 PM.

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    If we're not in a playoff place comfortably by next summer window Bob and Manning get the axe.

    We are spending an absurd amount of money(relative to the rest of the league) and we still have a DP slot open. There needs to be a return on investment.

    This Bob/Insigne/Berna era could turn out to be the "bloody big deal 2.0" in a hurry if things do not start off well next year.

  30. #5520
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    If we're not in a playoff place comfortably by next summer window Bob and Manning get the axe.

    We are spending an absurd amount of money(relative to the rest of the league) and we still have a DP slot open. There needs to be a return on investment.

    This Bob/Insigne/Berna era could turn out to be the "bloody big deal 2.0" in a hurry if things do not start off well next year.
    I don’t think these guys came here to lose. Knives will be out if we’re not on track next year.

 

 

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