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  1. #5341
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    So is Osorio really a / will be a 'Free Agent' or not; within or outside of MLS?
    Does the Bosman Rule and others apply to MLS; given the league's unique single contract ownership composition?
    Is the suggested Panathinaikos interest just an agent's/player's bluff?
    Couldn't Osorio just sign a 'pre-contract' and end any nonsense if a departure was his intention?
    Does Osorio, shouldn't he, have to have to go through a MLS expansion draft if their is one for Y23?
    If Bosman does apply, what does that mean?
    Just to foreign interest, yet not to intra-league interest?
    If so, can any of those other MLS footballers on that latest 'Out-of-Contact' or 'On Option' published Free Agent List be approached by the other MLS teams/TFC?
    If not, does some 'nudge-nudge, wink-wink' still go on with any potential signings from that list?
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 09-13-2022 at 10:31 AM.

  2. #5342
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    Agree with this, but we all need to accept there's a 0.0% chance of Bradley giving up the captains role or not playing any minutes while fit next season. We'd sooner jettison the Italians and just start the rebuild over again than do that. I don't agree with it whatsoever, but it is what it is

    As someone else said, even if MB and BB were not talking whatsoever and maintained a perfectly normal captain/manager relationship it doesn't matter, the appearance or potential for issues is more than enough to influence how people act around himn
    Well currently we have absolutely no one who could fullfill MB's role, so he guaranteed to start.

    MB is on MLS workhorse / iron man list. He's #3 of all players in the league for most minutes played. That's not easy to replace.

  3. #5343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Inbetween View Post
    So is Osorio really a / will be a 'Free Agent' or not; within or outside of MLS?
    Does the Bosman Rule and others apply to MLS; given the league's unique single contract ownership composition?
    Is the suggested Panathinaikos interest just an agent's/player's bluff?
    Couldn't Osorio just sign a 'pre-contract' and end any nonsense if a departure was his intention?
    Does Osorio, shouldn't he, have to have to go through a MLS expansion draft if their is one for Y23?
    If Bosman does apply, what does that mean?
    Just to foreign interest, yet not to intra-league interest?
    If so, can any of those other MLS footballers on that latest 'Out-of-Contact' or 'On Option' published Free Agent List be approached by the other MLS teams/TFC?
    If not, does some 'nudge-nudge, wink-wink' still go on with any potential signings from that list?
    As far as I am aware Bossman is strictly an EU ruling.

    Found an article on in from a few years ago regarding MLS.

    https://ussoccerplayers.com/2015/12/...y-and-mls.html

    In general American labor laws are worse than those in the Europe and Canadian laws are not far ahead of the Americans either. My suspicion is if there was sufficient legal motivation there could be forced change in MLS, but it would be very difficult, MLS rules are truly draconian and uncompetitive.

  4. #5344
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    Quote Originally Posted by SenorDingDong View Post
    If we re-sign Oso he should get the arm band, no question.
    This probably the best bargaining chip we have to keep Oso.

    Hes done everything except captain us and win CCL. Whats left for him here beyond that? Hes already a legend.

  5. #5345
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    Quote Originally Posted by SenorDingDong View Post
    Well currently we have absolutely no one who could fullfill MB's role, so he guaranteed to start.

    MB is on MLS workhorse / iron man list. He's #3 of all players in the league for most minutes played. That's not easy to replace.
    You are 100% correct. The problem is we aren't looking for someone to fill his role. He definitely needs to be phased out. We are stuck with him for one more year (at least). This offseason, his replacement needs to be brought in. But I have zero confidence that the Bradleys do what is best for the team around MB's spot in short and long term. Sorry, I really hope to be proven wrong. MB is on over a $1M USD still.

    The other night, two of the corner goals, his man flicked them on very easily, and then he got undressed for the third goal. Anyone could have done better there including all the kids. Sorry, I have to call a spade a spade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    This probably the best bargaining chip we have to keep Oso.

    He’s done everything except captain us and win CCL. What’s left for him here beyond that? He’s already a legend.
    Agreed. Didn't think of him. Lets do it. The Italians would be fine with it also.

  7. #5347
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    MB isn't the 2017 MB, not even close, but his stats are still among the best for midfielders in the league. John Molinaro did a piece on that recently if you are a subscriber.

    Sure we need an understudy, but MB's not ready for pasture yet.


  8. #5348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    MB isn't the 2017 MB, not even close, but his stats are still among the best for midfielders in the league.

    Sure we need an understudy, but MB's not ready for pasture yet.
    Some stats are, and there are some parts of his game that are still truly excellent. It's a gross simplification to deduce from that that he's statistically among the best midfielders in the league.

    And there are other problems beyond just his current abilities. There's his age and planning around him being a mainstay in the team next season seems questionable, and as has been discussed in here, issues with him as a team leader with his dad as manager

    Not thinking about exit strategy whatsoever for somebody of Bradleys age is a classic TFC upper management mistake that we make over and over again. We never ever have a handover plan, that's why we're in a constant state of 'rebuild' instead of transition. Regardless of current form, for someone of his age, it is simply unacceptable to not be thinking about how to transition away from him playing every minute of every game. It doesn't have to be replace him completely tomorrow, but 'do nothing and act shocked when we've a giant hole in that position later' is not a play that has worked for us in the past despite us trying it over and over and is effectively exactly what we're also doing with the management of Osos contract
    Last edited by JoesphNdo; 09-13-2022 at 11:16 AM.

  9. #5349
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    Some stats are, and there are some parts of his game that are still truly excellent. It's a gross simplification to deduce from that that he's statistically among the best midfielders in the league.
    John Molinaro's conclusion, not mine. Call it simplistic if you like, it's all in the interpretation. He isn't among the best in absolutely every area.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post

    And there are other problems beyond just his current abilities. There's his age and planning around him being a mainstay in the team next season seems questionable
    That's why I said he needs an understudy. "Questionable" is a bit strong, we really don't know how he'll be next year, although aging is relentless.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post

    issues with him as a team leader with his dad as manager
    No hints in the slightest of anyone on the team being upset with this or with the media thinking it's a bad idea. I've only read a handful of fans who think it's a problem with MB being captain (which for most teams these days is only an honorary position anyway). So I don't agree with this part of your point. I do completely agree with you that he needs an understudy, because we don't know how long he can continue to be effective enough. He's certainly on the inevitable downward slope that comes with age.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 09-13-2022 at 12:06 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    MB isn't the 2017 MB, not even close, but his stats are still among the best for midfielders in the league. John Molinaro did a piece on that recently if you are a subscriber.

    Sure we need an understudy, but MB's not ready for pasture yet.
    Here are the actual stats:

    https://fbref.com/en/players/fd5e3a7...couting-Report

    Hes a good progressive passer and excels in certain categories but hes in the bottom quartile for all of pressures, tackles, and blocks. In the bottom half for interceptions. He has an average amount of pressures. And as wed all probably suspect, hes near the bottom in terms of aerial duels won.

    In totality, that to me does not look like the statistical output of a leading midfielder or an effective defensive midfielder.

  11. #5351
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    Not thinking about exit strategy whatsoever for somebody of Bradleys age is a classic TFC upper management mistake that we make over and over again. We never ever have a handover plan, that's why we're in a constant state of 'rebuild' instead of transition. Regardless of current form, for someone of his age, it is simply unacceptable to not be thinking about how to transition away from him playing every minute of every game. It doesn't have to be replace him completely tomorrow, but 'do nothing and act shocked when we've a giant hole in that position later' is not a play that has worked for us in the past despite us trying it over and over and is effectively exactly what we're also doing with the management of Osos contract
    How do you know they aren't though? This isn't the type of thing that would be public.

    I mean they brought Berna here in secret, showed him the city, stadium, training, and nobody knew he was coming.

    MB is a health nut, and literally has not even really missed a single minute of play this year. He's still got some to give. I have no doubts they know he isn't going to be here forever. And given how MB literally ripped up his contract (gave away 10 million) to help the team, I'm certain he would have no issues passing the torch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Here are the actual stats:

    https://fbref.com/en/players/fd5e3a7...couting-Report

    He’s a good progressive passer and excels in certain categories but he’s in the bottom quartile for all of pressures, tackles, and blocks. In the bottom half for interceptions. He has an average amount of pressures. And as we’d all probably suspect, he’s near the bottom in terms of aerial duels won.

    In totality, that to me does not look like the statistical output of a leading midfielder or an effective defensive midfielder.
    Exactly my point. And, the two way central mid field position is simply far too complex and far too nuanced to look at one or two stats and make deductions about being among the best mid fielders in the league based on those stats - especially when you get the stats first, and work backwards to the conclusion, rather than decide the stats that matter first and work from there. There is absolutely no credible argument that he's statistically one of the best mid fielder in the league based on a couple of numbers - and that isn't even to say that there isn't a chance he's among the best, just that you can't possible deduce that from the couple of stats that get posted here

  13. #5353
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    Quote Originally Posted by SenorDingDong View Post
    How do you know they aren't though? This isn't the type of thing that would be public.

    I mean they brought Berna here in secret, showed him the city, stadium, training, and nobody knew he was coming.

    MB is a health nut, and literally has not even really missed a single minute of play this year. He's still got some to give. I have no doubts they know he isn't going to be here forever. And given how MB literally ripped up his contract (gave away 10 million) to help the team, I'm certain he would have no issues passing the torch.
    You're very right I don't know, but we can only judge a horse by the races it's run and TFC generally drops the ball big time on transition plans and aren't making any noise whatsoever that a backup/potential replacement for MB is a high priority. If we sign someone this winter and they share alot of minutes with Bradley I'll hold my hands up. I just don't think we will, and am quite confident in that, but yes, I could be wrong. Time will tell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    You're very right I don't know, but we can only judge a horse by the races it's run and TFC generally drops the ball big time on transition plans and aren't making any noise whatsoever that a backup/potential replacement for MB is a high priority. If we sign someone this winter and they share alot of minutes with Bradley I'll hold my hands up. I just don't think we will, and am quite confident in that, but yes, I could be wrong. Time will tell.
    It may not come this winter. I figure our next DP signing is either a striker or MB's replacement. I'm 99% sure this won't come till the end of the European season, so next July.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    You're very right I don't know, but we can only judge a horse by the races it's run and TFC generally drops the ball big time on transition plans and aren't making any noise whatsoever that a backup/potential replacement for MB is a high priority. If we sign someone this winter and they share alot of minutes with Bradley I'll hold my hands up. I just don't think we will, and am quite confident in that, but yes, I could be wrong. Time will tell.
    Fully agreed with you.

    I just wonder what BB's plan was this year if Mike got hurt? Who would we try in that spot as he never comes off. Even in games where it was a blow out, even then, still wouldn't come off. If its because BB (and MB) thinks he is "irreplaceable" then that's not good sqaud planning. But given we dumped Lawrence and Auro and put two kids who were not even defenders as starters, I guess we'd just wing it then....

    And with MB on over $1M a year USD from what I heard....that's quite a bit more than Oso, who is better and younger. Oso and his agent(s) are considering that as well in their next move. They'd be foolish not too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SenorDingDong View Post
    It may not come this winter. I figure our next DP signing is either a striker or MB's replacement. I'm 99% sure this won't come till the end of the European season, so next July.
    July again? So another write off season? No thanks. This is the last window. Things have to happen now. We pissed away this season already.

    As some said here, Manning/BB better have the team in place and all the pieces of the puzzle to go day 1 of the new season. Anything less, and they both need to go. We must come out of the gates on fire and winning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    But given we dumped Lawrence and Auro and put two kids who were not even defenders as starters
    You keep mentioning these two like they were the obvious answers to all our problems yet they were both here and playing last season when our defense was even more shit than it is now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    You keep mentioning these two like they were the obvious answers to all our problems yet they were both here and playing last season when our defense was even more shit than it is now.
    They most definitely would have helped us at the start of this year. The second half then was the Bono show. I am convinced if we had Lawrence/Auro at the start and BB didn't banish Poz to bench/wings, and we had anyone other than Bono in net the past month, we are in the playoffs. All it would take is like what 10 points?

    Our d has been s.hit no doubt, the goals against don't lie, but this year then we fixed the outside recently in Crisito and Layera (love them both) but then the two CBs have been bad. Keeper and midfield situation with Oso out and Kaye as well. A lot to be fixed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    You keep mentioning these two like they were the obvious answers to all our problems yet they were both here and playing last season when our defense was even more shit than it is now.
    It is kind of funny to think about. As bad as we have been this year, last year was worse.

    Although, a large part of that has to be down to Armas as opposed to just the players. Im not saying we were playoff worthy (far from it). But I still think vets > kids if the coaching variance is taken out of the equation.

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    There was an Athletic article today about how Philly came to be the force they are today. What stood out to me is how long it took them to get to the point theyre at today. They started making heavier investments in their academy back in 2013, brought on their manager in 2014, and have had a relatively consistent front office since. They had a number of years of mediocrity before becoming a stable force the past few seasons. I hope given the financial strength of TFC we could expedite some of that, but becoming a good team doesnt happen overnight.

    https://theathletic.com/3586855/2022...shared_article

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    They most definitely would have helped us at the start of this year.
    The addage above of only judging a horse by the races it's won says that they wouldn't have been much better since they weren't last season with a better GK behind them, a healthier and more complete midfield, and an equal or possibly slightly better (in form) CB group.

    The reason our second half surge failed was Bono. That's true and there's no 2 ways around it. His error or two per match did us in and it's an area that must be addressed early this off season. This isn't a "Let's use Gavran & Ranjitsingh until July and see how they do" situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    It is kind of funny to think about. As bad as we have been this year, last year was worse.

    Although, a large part of that has to be down to Armas as opposed to just the players. I’m not saying we were playoff worthy (far from it). But I still think vets > kids if the coaching variance is taken out of the equation.
    We weren't much better under Perez though. Still worse than this season and with no potential growth from it, it was truly just a waste.
    That's the worst part of last year, developing nothing (*except Schaff). If Perez had sense he would have had Nelson, Kosi, Peruzza & Okello starting every match since it was hopeless. At least then they'd have been further long in development. Instead we got extra Dwyer & DeLeon.
    Last edited by Ultra & Proud; 09-13-2022 at 01:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    The addage above of only judging a horse by the races it's won says that they wouldn't have been much better since they weren't last season with a better GK behind them, a healthier and more complete midfield, and an equal or possibly slightly better (in form) CB group.

    The reason our second half surge failed was Bono. That's true and there's no 2 ways around it. His error or two per match did us in and it's an area that must be addressed early this off season. This isn't a "Let's use Gavran & Ranjitsingh until July and see how they do" situation.
    Agreed totally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    July again? So another write off season? No thanks. This is the last window. Things have to happen now. We pissed away this season already.

    As some said here, Manning/BB better have the team in place and all the pieces of the puzzle to go day 1 of the new season. Anything less, and they both need to go. We must come out of the gates on fire and winning.
    I'm specifically talking about the 3rd DP spot.This winter should be TAM and Salary roles and yes I think BB and co need to get 5-10 new players from this.

    We can be a super competitive team without filling that 3rd DP spot. But rushing to fill that spot with just anyone doesn't make sense. Dont need another Salcedo.
    Last edited by SenorDingDong; 09-13-2022 at 01:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    The addage above of only judging a horse by the races it's won says that they wouldn't have been much better since they weren't last season with a better GK behind them, a healthier and more complete midfield, and an equal or possibly slightly better (in form) CB group.

    The reason our second half surge failed was Bono. That's true and there's no 2 ways around it. His error or two per match did us in and it's an area that must be addressed early this off season. This isn't a "Let's use Gavran & Ranjitsingh until July and see how they do" situation.
    Auro was himself good for a mistake a game. Would likely still have been marginally better than what we ended up with, but certainly not the difference to making the playoffs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    We weren't much better under Perez though. Still worse than this season and with no potential growth from it, it's truly just a waste.
    That's the worst part of last year, developing nothing (*except Schaff). If Perez has sense he would have had Nelson, Kosi, & Okello starting every match since it was hopeless. At least then they'd have been further long in development.
    We have the Italians this year (for half) to be fair to Perez, if he had them, we'd be better off too. What I will give credit to Perez was he tried things out. We played some good football under him. Won away at New England if I recall as well. I'd take Perez in a heartbeat over BB. And he did start Priso and dared to take off MB. Too bad Priso got hurt. Okello got some time as wel, didn't he also get hurt?

    And who knows what the direction from Manning and co was. Perez was an interim guy. He wanted to win and try and get a full time job. He started off well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    We weren't much better under Perez though. Still worse than this season and with no potential growth from it, it's truly just a waste.
    That's the worst part of last year, developing nothing (*except Schaff). If Perez has sense he would have had Nelson, Kosi, & Okello starting every match since it was hopeless. At least then they'd have been further long in development.
    He was playing for his own job at that stage. Incentives were warped. We actually looked good for a game or two until Priso went down injured.

    Im half convinced Nelson will be a great player. But Im still broadly unconvinced by our academy and most of the youth players we field. Not enough hunger. Not very well coached at the junior levels or MLS ready.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    You keep mentioning these two like they were the obvious answers to all our problems yet they were both here and playing last season when our defense was even more shit than it is now.
    3rd worst goals against this season. 2nd worst last year.

    Way better coaching this year. Worst loss in club history last year.

    Bono cost us even more last year than he has this year.

    Auro and Kemar obvious answers? No. Better than the alternatives? Yeah probably.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    We weren't much better under Perez though. Still worse than this season and with no potential growth from it, it was truly just a waste.
    That's the worst part of last year, developing nothing (*except Schaff). If Perez had sense he would have had Nelson, Kosi, Peruzza & Okello starting every match since it was hopeless. At least then they'd have been further long in development. Instead we got extra Dwyer & DeLeon.
    Did any of the kids aside from Nelson truly improve over the course of this season?

    All I saw was a bunch of teenagers getting thrown to the wolves because development and lazy recruiting.

    Nelson only actually showed noticeable improvement when surrounded by a serviceable supporting cast. You cant just toss kids into a match and expect growth.

    Kosi, Shaff, Okello, Priso, Akinola all look like they regressed heavily.

    They may be grateful for the minutes, but down the line Id put money on them thinking it was pretty fucked up how they were set up to fail like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Auro was himself good for a mistake a game. Would likely still have been marginally better than what we ended up with, but certainly not the difference to making the playoffs.
    I mean, when the stand in was Kosi Thomson and for at least a half dozen games he was consistently beaten, outmatched, and a huge determent to the team on both ends of the field? I think Auro would have been a pretty sizeable difference in terms of maintaining stability.

    And not trying to trash Thomson. Seems like a good kid. But hes been given too much responsibility at this stage of his career and completely miscast as a fullback.

 

 

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