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  1. #2851
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    It is utterly brilliant and itís the signing of the best ever player in MLS history, no question. Really fantastic. So exciting for us as fans.

    Itís also why I think Manning will be gone. He will have answered any critics by creating a well executed five year plan building to the World Cup 2026, brought in the best signing ever, a great manager, solved several contractual problems and restored TFC to a position of prominence.

    Thatís when you move on to a new challenge - peak bargaining power for him.
    yeah that is an interesting point, or way of framing this.

    I wish he hadnít said this. I wish I didnít know this.
    Last edited by ensco; 01-08-2022 at 10:40 PM.
    ďWhat the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.Ē

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    yeah that is an interesting point, or way of framing this.

    I wish he hadnít said this. I wish I didnít know this.
    Oh, I don't know dude. Confidence moves mountains. I'm sure a lot of us will look at it and go "so... the tactical requirements of the team didn't enter anywhere into it...?" but like a dude who swings at every fastball, the odd shot at greatness ends up getting tattooed over the fence.

    Now I'm guessing given our striker situation the Nats guy has to be Cavallini. Vitoria is possible due to his contract end upcoming but it makes more sense given that he's benched in Vancouver for them to try to get him on a TAM deal somehow.

    The best take I saw today was a Norwegian paper, which reported he had to have signed here because of Bob Bradley, the great former Staebek coach.

    The dude is beloved in Norway and Egypt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Sorry, but nobody really CARES what people use to find good players as long as they are good.

    By any objective criteria, Manning just pulled off one of the top 3 signings in MLS history.

    He ain't going anywhere.
    Manning has the benefit of big MLSE without this advantage this club would be a basement dwelling team for many more years. I would hold off on my praise for this team president who destroyed this . I believe our thanks should be pointed to Mr Tanenbaum , it is he who saved this franchise , Manning is clueless.

  4. #2854
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amir. View Post
    best player in mls history...top 3 signing in mls history...hasnt played a single game yet...execute and then you can get and give those titles
    You have an absolute point. But he is better than Gio, Beckham, Zlatan, Fowler and Wright -Phillips were immediately before they came to MLS, is what I mean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Section 223 View Post
    Manning has the benefit of big MLSE without this advantage this club would be a basement dwelling team for many more years. I would hold off on my praise for this team president who destroyed this . I believe our thanks should be pointed to Mr Tanenbaum , it is he who saved this franchise , Manning is clueless.
    Imagine Manning trying to run this team on a tight budget , I personally love that we are spending what will end up being twice as much per year then every club in the league. But really to say that Manning is doing a good job is a bit of a stretch for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuushalinsky View Post
    word is on the grapevine that Criscito and Belotti may have been in Toronto to discuss things. The source is iffy but if true...
    well, what is the source :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    yeah that is an interesting point, or way of framing this.

    I wish he hadnít said this. I wish I didnít know this.
    Thatís how I feel. Cheapens the whole thing. Going back to my earlier point, do you ever hear a big announcement in the UK, Italy or Spain where they start with ďI trawled data basesĒ? They make it about the player. ďWe knew Insigne was in his last year of contract and how perfect he could be for this club, so made him our number one targetĒ would have been infinitely better

  8. #2858
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Oh, I don't know dude. Confidence moves mountains. I'm sure a lot of us will look at it and go "so... the tactical requirements of the team didn't enter anywhere into it...?" but like a dude who swings at every fastball, the odd shot at greatness ends up getting tattooed over the fence.

    Now I'm guessing given our striker situation the Nats guy has to be Cavallini. Vitoria is possible due to his contract end upcoming but it makes more sense given that he's benched in Vancouver for them to try to get him on a TAM deal somehow.

    The best take I saw today was a Norwegian paper, which reported he had to have signed here because of Bob Bradley, the great former Staebek coach.

    The dude is beloved in Norway and Egypt.
    deserved accolades. We are blessed indeed to have him. The Premier League was savage and unfair to him; everything else he has done an excellent job.

  9. #2859
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Oh, I don't know dude. Confidence moves mountains. I'm sure a lot of us will look at it and go "so... the tactical requirements of the team didn't enter anywhere into it...?" but like a dude who swings at every fastball, the odd shot at greatness ends up getting tattooed over the fence.

    Now I'm guessing given our striker situation the Nats guy has to be Cavallini. Vitoria is possible due to his contract end upcoming but it makes more sense given that he's benched in Vancouver for them to try to get him on a TAM deal somehow.

    The best take I saw today was a Norwegian paper, which reported he had to have signed here because of Bob Bradley, the great former Staebek coach.

    The dude is beloved in Norway and Egypt.
    What about Larin? Not sure Cavallini is an upgrade on what we have now (Peruzza/Akinola/Jozy)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    What about Larin? Not sure Cavallini is an upgrade on what we have now (Peruzza/Akinola/Jozy)
    He's being targeted by Premiership teams. Does Manning have big DP money faith in him? I'm not sure he would. Plus, we're likely going to play with inverted wingers, so a guy who's more of a target man (and can be had much cheaper) probably makes more sense to them.

    I mean, if we had the choice, obviously Larin. But it seems unlikely given his current trajectory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    He's being targeted by Premiership teams. Does Manning have big DP money faith in him? I'm not sure he would. Plus, we're likely going to play with inverted wingers, so a guy who's more of a target man (and can be had much cheaper) probably makes more sense to them.

    I mean, if we had the choice, obviously Larin. But it seems unlikely given his current trajectory.
    Interesting. I havenít seen Premier league quality in him - almost, but. For Canada he is a two chance striker. In the Prem you have to be a half a chance striker. But I guess those managers will be looking at transfermarkt and seeing that he is available.

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    The perfect guy would of course be Jonathan David, but that isn't going to happen (although Inter, Arsenal and Liverpool seem to want to wait until the end of the season when they can gewt him from LOSC without a fee...!)
    Criscito and Genoa are on TLN tomorrow afternoon, if anyone wants to have a look at him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    Interesting. I havenít seen Premier league quality in him - almost, but. For Canada he is a two chance striker. In the Prem you have to be a half a chance striker. But I guess those managers will be looking at transfermarkt and seeing that he is available.
    I donĎt think heís a fit if for no other reason that he isnít actually a centre forward (as much as Herdman tries to shoe-horn him in as one). The way he plays club football is waaay different that what people seem to expect watching Canada and his earlier MLS career.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    Thatís how I feel. Cheapens the whole thing. Going back to my earlier point, do you ever hear a big announcement in the UK, Italy or Spain where they start with ďI trawled data basesĒ? They make it about the player. ďWe knew Insigne was in his last year of contract and how perfect he could be for this club, so made him our number one targetĒ would have been infinitely better
    Those big European teams have money to spare and don't need to look for out of contract players. If they identify a player they want they can spend the money on a fee and sell another player to cover them. As much money as MLSE has, they're not going to drop 50 million on a transfer fee. So they have to look for out of contract players and or shortly out of contract players

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    Seems fairly likely that one of Belotti or Destro will be that striker signing. Obviously Belotti is the bigger name, but I think Destro is one of those guys that would bang goals in MLS because of his strength, hold up play and ability to get on the end of crosses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    well, what is the source :P
    like tier 9 - it's grapevine through someone who says they know a guy who works at an Italian restaurant.

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    larin missed another open net in a cup match the other day...good luck to any premier league team willing to take him or any mls team willing to have him as dp

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Like it or not Transfermarkt is used by most clubs and agents as primary reference point.
    IYKYK. Here is a recent and interesting New York Times article on Transfermarkt. Seems to be well entrenched as the de facto industry database.


    A few snippets in case itís TLDR:


    - data on 840,000 players
    - data on 100,000 managers and coaches
    - Got traction in 2006
    - Publisher Axel Springer bought a majority stake in 2007
    - 80 full-time staff
    - busiest month was 39 million unique users and 672 million page views
    - claims to be used by every scout, agent, and executive in the industry

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    Really really can't fathom why anyone has an issue with the transfermarket comment. If I wanted to make a big signing from Europe, and wanted my $$ to go towards the contract and not a fee, the first thing I'd do to start gathering my short list and narrow down from thousands of players to a short list is check the most reliable contract database available for a lisrt of players with expiring contracts. Not doing that would be insane.

    He's not saying he went onto transfer market, saw and name and thought YOLO here we go. But it was a jumping off point to let him know who was a possibility. There just isn't a better database for that kind of thing, so yeah it'd be negligent to *not* use it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Sorry, but nobody really CARES what people use to find good players as long as they are good.

    By any objective criteria, Manning just pulled off one of the top 3 signings in MLS history.

    He ain't going anywhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    It is utterly brilliant and it’s the signing of the best ever player in MLS history, no question. Really fantastic. So exciting for us as fans.

    It’s also why I think Manning will be gone. He will have answered any critics by creating a well executed five year plan building to the World Cup 2026, brought in the best signing ever, a great manager, solved several contractual problems and restored TFC to a position of prominence.

    That’s when you move on to a new challenge - peak bargaining power for him.
    MightyDM... Interesting... Corporately perceptive. Possible. We will see if probable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Apparently the earlier in the week was the "signing that we will be officially signing later" signing.

    Today was the actual contract & the announcement.


    But, yeh, that pretty much looks like the videos from today were done on Tuesday.
    So, just for further clarification; my education and enlightenment...
    Earlier in the week was a 'pre-contract' signing and yesterday was 'the contract' signing and announcement.
    Does Insigne then sign another 'final-contract' when he leaves Napoli after the season and 'officially' transfers to and arrives at TFC?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Section 223 View Post
    Manning has the benefit of big MLSE without this advantage this club would be a basement dwelling team for many more years. I would hold off on my praise for this team president who destroyed this . I believe our thanks should be pointed to Mr Tanenbaum , it is he who saved this franchise , Manning is clueless.
    The link- support- between Tanenbaum and Manning is Ujiri; who is Tanenbaum's protege and consigliere on this matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    BTW, nearest I can figure, the first mention of Insigne in here was somebody posting this tweet

    So, does this- Corriere dello Sport citation- offer any constructive insight into the debate of whether- Here. We. Go.- Fabrizio Romano is a 'breaker' of news or simply savvy enough to be among the first and very popular to confirm or 'tap in' and widely disseminate such information given his Sky/Comcast inside connects and any intersection they offer.
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 01-09-2022 at 07:48 AM.

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    Google Translate:

    "Toronto has a debt with Soteldo in the region of 3 million dollars (R$ 16 million at the current price), the result of bonuses still signed at the signing of the contract. The Venezuelan will not give up this amount, and S„o Paulo refuses to incorporate the amount into the proposal.

    The Brazilian club has a positive signal from Soteldo on the salary issue, although the athlete is suspicious of returning to the South American scene at this time, given the financial crisis experienced by Tricolor himself.

    The high monthly salary, therefore, is still an impasse for negotiation, stopped in the last few days since the club's previous move.

    As for Toronto, S„o Paulo awaits a response regarding the proposal made for 50% of the player's economic rights. The purchase is in the range of 2.5 million dollars (R$ 14 million, according to last Saturday's exchange rate)."

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    Quote Originally Posted by rydermike View Post
    One thing I was really glad to see on the Facebook and Instagram pages is I think I only saw one comment where someone was bashing TFC for letting Laryea leave. 99% of people seemed to understand that this was a positive move and we let him leave to grow and follow his dream.

    I was expecting to see a bunch of casuals complaining like when Marcus Semien left the Jays as a free agent for a crazy amount of money complaining that the team was cheap for not overpaying him til hes 40 (even though it was confirmed that the Jays still offered him a long term deal with a high AAV). I guess that's the benefit of being more of a niche fanbase compared to baseball, fans actually are more informed. (Granted there are far too many of the Giovinco stans who think a 36 year old Giovinco is going to light up the league, so I guess we do have those type of casuals, they just didn't come out here with a dumb comment)
    I'll play along and be the red-team or contrarian on this development; to some extent.
    Without question, I am pleased for him and understand his decision.
    Given his age... the timing, this window was right and had to be exploited.
    I am not sure he would have had another realistic E-CL/PL opportunity if he stayed.

    However, make no mistake, between allegiance and opportunity, Layrea is with the mercenary lot. Career wise, if not out of MLS, he was certainly given his hat and coat and being shown the door. TFC and Vanney saw something or enough to make him a reclamation project. IIRC they signed him for the league minimum. He performed and they may have unilaterally given him a raise and possibly a contract extension. That opportunity and his hard work also got him CMNT status. Most recently, TFC seems to have offered him a multi year contract of around 900K. He declined. Laryea was saved by TFC and Vanney, was here for just three years, with Y19 being his baseline for us and Y20 and Y21 under asterisks.

    Not a lot of loyalty. Some may argue the offer was generous. I am sure he was either aware or informed or TFC's relaunch and revitalized commitment to championships and how he would likely contribute and be a part of that. He left. Not a positive move for TFC.

    Regardless, after years of TFC/Vanney trying to address our left side needs, LB/LWB/LW and with the club finally starting to resolve them, we now have real issues on the right.
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 01-09-2022 at 07:51 AM.

  26. #2876
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealG-TFC View Post


    Google Translate:

    "Toronto has a debt with Soteldo in the region of 3 million dollars (R$ 16 million at the current price), the result of bonuses still signed at the signing of the contract. The Venezuelan will not give up this amount, and S„o Paulo refuses to incorporate the amount into the proposal.

    The Brazilian club has a positive signal from Soteldo on the salary issue, although the athlete is suspicious of returning to the South American scene at this time, given the financial crisis experienced by Tricolor himself.

    The high monthly salary, therefore, is still an impasse for negotiation, stopped in the last few days since the club's previous move.

    As for Toronto, S„o Paulo awaits a response regarding the proposal made for 50% of the player's economic rights. The purchase is in the range of 2.5 million dollars (R$ 14 million, according to last Saturday's exchange rate)."
    That doesn't look promising.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Inbetween View Post
    I'll play along and be the red-team or contrarian on this development; to some extent.
    Without question, I am pleased for him and understand his decision.
    Given his age... the timing, this window was right and had to be exploited.
    I am not sure he would have had another realistic E-CL/PL opportunity if he stayed.

    However, make no mistake, between allegiance and opportunity, Layrea is with the mercenary lot. Career wise, if not out of MLS, he was certainly given his hat and coat and being shown the door. TFC and Vanney saw something or enough to make him a reclamation project. IIRC they signed him for the league minimum. He performed and they may have unilaterally given him a raise and possibly a contract extension. That opportunity and his hard work also got him CMNT status. Most recently, TFC seems to have offered him a multi year contract of around 900K. He declined. Laryea was saved by TFC and Vanney, was here for just three years, with Y19 being his baseline for us and Y20 and Y21 under asterisks.

    Not a lot of loyalty. Some may argue the offer was generous. I am sure he was either aware or informed or TFC's relaunch and revitalized commitment to championships and how he would likely contribute and be a part of that. He left. Not a positive move for TFC.

    Regardless, after years of TFC/Vanney trying to address our left side needs, LB/LWB/LW and with the club finally starting to resolve them, we now have real issues on the right.
    That's not what my post was about at all. My post wasn't about Laryea or why he left. My post was about fans and how there are always casual fans, who are ignorant to the fact that players are human and the game is a business, and bash the team when a player leaves assuming that its a video game and there are no external factors and every player can just be kept.

    I'm used to seeing any time a player leaves a Toronto team, a bunch of ignorant fans bashing the team for letting the player leave, ignorant of the fact that the player has a choice (if they are a free agent), ignorant of the fact that money is involved and there is a salary cap (ie hockey, basketball), ignorant of the fact that sometimes there is interest but a contract is simply too much (those same fans who complain when a player is making too much money at the end - ex I'm sure lots of the fans who complain about Altidore now would have complained if we didn't extend him with the 'it's just money argument. There's risk/reward with every contract. What I mean is there were Jay's fans complaining that the team didn't match the 7 year 25 million per year contract to Semien, who will be 38 at the end of the deal. The team for good reason didn't want to commit to paying a 38 year old that much. Some fans seemed oblivious to that and that he would be at current form forever - similar to the Giovinco fanatics who think he's going to come in and be 28 year old Giovinco again).

    I've seen it all the time (players like Robbie Ray and Marcus Semien this year with the Jay's, Kawhi and Lowry with the Raptors, etc) Fans not understanding why the player left (be it money, going home, chance at a title, etc) and blaming the team for being cheap/idiots as if the team didn't want them anymore.

    In this case, Laryea left for career advancement and Toronto allowed him to go, when he was under contract and *could have* blocked the move, but letting him go was the *right thing* to do. And I was glad that all of the FANS seemed to understand this. I didn't see any of the regular team bashing that I'm used to seeing when a player leaves.
    Last edited by rydermike; 01-09-2022 at 08:20 AM.

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    Wouldnít Belotti require a contract of the same magnitude as Insigneís? Maybe not a high but some kind of overpay. Especially now that the precedent has been set. I canít see TFC doing that again.

    I think Cavallini could actually be a solid centre forward depending on how BB wants to play. If he wants a physical guy who can score he could be great. No sure his Vancouver form is representative of what he can do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    yeah that is an interesting point, or way of framing this.

    I wish he hadn’t said this and I wish I didn’t know this.
    I don’t disagree but there are ways to look at this. We really saw Manning’s business style. As MightyDM pointed out, the polished version would have been, “We have been tracking Insigne for years. His style and leadership qualities are something we wanted for our club etc, etc.”

    How we got there now is pretty obvious, his finish in the final third was lacking.

    Lets be honest, even the Gio rumors were for the fans. If we didn’t sign anyone, for sure Gio was/is back. (not saying Gio cannot contribute but we needed some hope and buzz in October). After this signing, Gio should be more at an optically right price. if Gio is smart, it will be at a reasonable salary and long term ambassadorship and great for Gio and the club (worth way more to him in the long run, I hope he is getting good advice). We forget MLSE has so many ways to use a legend.

    How we narrowed down Belotti and Insigne, who cares? Deep down, we know Manning isn’t really a football expert, he is a business man. (The real mistake Manning made was choosing Ali as his football expert and thats for another day).

    Makes you feel if Locatelli or Berardi or Romangoli were coming off of a contract, we would have targeted them. Wait we haven’t we talked about Sirigu, he was on the 2020 team, maybe we could get a 2 for 1 with Criscito…lol. Don’t get mad at Manning for knowing the Toronto audience, we have an inferiority complex to the Americans in baseball and to the Europeans in Football. Bringing in a highly recognizable Italian star is smart. I am hoping beyond hope that BB has a plan for this type of player in his lineup.

    As you point out, he just shouldn’t have said it out loud like that….LOL. Hey, scouting team choose one from the transfer market list https://www.transfermarkt.com/italien/kader/verein/3376 is actually not bad, just you didn’t need to tell everyone. There is actually something financially smart here… if we had to pay $15-20M to get Insigne from Napoli (thats $4-5 million per season) would be taxing. Now as a free transfer, the wages don’t look unreasonable.

    All in all, I am pretty happy. Lets play some exiting direct football and i cant wait to see someone score from the edge of the box again.
    Last edited by Bushmancan; 01-09-2022 at 09:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoodson View Post
    Only in Toronto is this and issue… Jesus it’s not even 24 hours that TFC signed Insigne arguably the most important signing in history and some we are talking about using a data base
    TheGoodson, I cannot help myself regarding Manning's Transfermarkt remark; sorry! I will agree to disagree with some in this thread.
    Sure, I get it, as a means to an end, who cares? Fantastic signing. I am ecstatic, lets celebrate. Job well done TFC!

    Yet, as a statement by a sports league team president, I believe it is and should be of concern; as others in this thread may.
    Yes, I am annoyed. He has to be better; smarter.
    What? In the interview rounds, Manning is corporate savvy enough not to confirm other ongoing pursuits, yet is then suddenly pedestrian enough to corroborate how he focused in on the acquisition targets. Ridiculous, he just announced his formula and the TFC playbook. Every wannabe is now right able to work it out. Why announce the secret recipe? Even if it is logically deducible. Without a doubt, it's standard stuff; as a database reference point. I wouldn't expect otherwise that he, his team, a consultant or agent engage it or similar like Football Manager.
    Just, there is no need to share that knowledge; no matter how obvious.

    Besides, I am having doubts about some of what he is suggesting and stating is accurate.
    He may be playing loose and fast, a shell game, with his / some the facts. Otherwise, he may just be shrewd and a genius.

    TheGoodson, I have previously stated my faith in some of the information you have shared.
    You might be able to clarify something for me... if you know and are willing to share.
    Manning indicates he began his homework in September of last year. Can you tell me... when did Destro and Criscito visit?
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 01-09-2022 at 09:18 AM.

 

 

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