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  1. #1831
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    Granted this is 2019, so I defer to a more recent source https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-soccer-teams/

    Our valutation isn't all that special compared to the size of our market, we SHOULD be behind only LA or NY teams and even there they split their market in 2. I see us right behind Seattle and level with Portland, neither of whom have spent like us. So no, I don't think our spending has had a dramatic impact on our valutation. And why would it? It hasn't significantly driven the metrics that would drive valuation - TV and general revenue

    but I do admit, I flat out don't understand the economics of the moves we're looking at this off season so yeah honestly I'll try to worry less and just jump on the hype train. The owners clearly want to spend on the team so as a fan that's only good news for us
    It may be that I'm just bitter about the amount of money I've sunk into Bogers (especially Rogers) over the years in ransom-like cell phone and cable fees and want to get at least something out of that!

  2. #1832
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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    i dont get it....why are so many people so paranoid that we will become dallas or colorado.we seem to have this conversation every year
    Because MLSE has always shown that they are a budget ownership group that has never spent on any of their sports teams and won't spend a few million on a soccer player because they can't handle the poor ROI. It's been proven since day one. We don't spend. There's Colorado, Dallas, Vancouver, and us being miserly. Cheap bastard teams the lot of us.

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    I am not scared of us becoming Dallas. I just find it amusing that some people would rather us be more like Dallas and just exist for our owners to make money to pay the QB they gave half a billion dollars to. FC Dallas is a plague to MLS and the Hunts should not be given the power they are in the league. They developed Pepi, won nothing and are gonna sell him to Germany with no intention of reinvesting a cent on the current roster.

  4. #1834
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    Agree with Ensco. Pozuelo and Insigne are enough. They should be abusing the hell out of U-22 by sighing bonafide players a la Lainez.

    I’m chuckling at the idea of MLSE raiding Argentina with their trucks of money.
    Last edited by portu; 12-30-2021 at 04:16 PM.

  5. #1835
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    Ever since our first DP (JdG) we have always overpaid for mid/late-prime players and had one of the 2 or 3 highest payrolls in the league. Through Frings/Koevermans, Defoe/Bradley, Altidore/Giovinco, and beyond.

    This isn’t going to change.

    Analyze MLSE’s corporate strategy all you want, we have a decade-plus of history to point to. Whoever we sign this window is going to follow the same pattern.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Because MLSE has always shown that they are a budget ownership group that has never spent on any of their sports teams and won't spend a few million on a soccer player because they can't handle the poor ROI. It's been proven since day one. We don't spend. There's Colorado, Dallas, Vancouver, and us being miserly. Cheap bastard teams the lot of us.
    Going to assume this is sarcasm.

    We have had the highest team salary or near the top in MLS for the last 5 years.........

  7. #1837
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    I don't think TFC is worth $650M. The Fire is the best comparable. It sold a couple of years ago for $400M. It previously last sold in 2007 for $35M It's probably been the worst run franchise in MLS, they don't own or control their stadium, but it's a bigger market with more potential than Toronto. I'd guess TFC would be worth about the same (TFC are in a smaller market but control their stadium)

    I doubt sports teams values have gone up post covid, given the ongoing financial impact covid is having on sports. (I think team sales in all sports have kind of stopped. Someone can add if they know of recent control transactions in MLB or NFL, which I am somewhat blind too.)

    I think the wild expansion in values of pro sports franchises over the last 15 years is closely related to similar things going on in the high end art and real estate markets, and is not correlated to how a team spends or how effective its management has been. (If any of that really mattered, the NBA Clippers would not have sold for $2B. The NBA has seen even wilder franchise price appreciation than MLS.)
    Last edited by ensco; 12-30-2021 at 05:28 PM.
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  8. #1838
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    Dynamo sold for $400M in June this year

  9. #1839
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    Not terribly convinced any U22 strategy works. This league is not a talent finishing school and becoming one is much harder than the cheaper owners believe it is in their pipe dream of buying assets and consistently selling them on for more.

    Young impactful players are rare and will be gone too soon to build around. The less impactful ones don’t equate to one marquee DP even if it’s x2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Problem is that you're likely to end up with two stiffs like the ones Miami paid big bucks for, got no production from, and lost all that money on than some rare sellable star like Almiron, thus why it hasn't happened often in MLS ever. Whether the failure with those two Argie players reflects badly on Miami in further recruiting from there I don't know but it can't be good and it was just a bad look all around.

    There is no track record in MLS of buying and selling at an upcharge and that's not MLSE's goal anyway. It's eyes on the product and being a full on seller won't do that.
    I don't fully understand what happened in Miami but I am very wary of the South American market, for us. We are not that team and this is not that city.

    I would say the U 22 signing type I would most like us to copy is Dejan Joveljic at LAG. He cost $4M out of Eintracht Frankfurt, and couldn't get into Frankfurt's lineup in part because they signed... Borre!

    But Joveljic had 18 goals in 34 games on loan in the Austrian league last year. He got limited minutes at LAG because Chicharito is in front of him, so we will see next year ... but this is the U 22 player profile I would seek for TFC.... and if they all came from Italy, that would be fine.
    Last edited by ensco; 12-30-2021 at 05:42 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  11. #1841
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    I was all in on going the South American route for a few years but given the amount of flops league wide i'm done with it now. I'd go for Irish, British, Italian and Portuguese. We know these people settle in Toronto

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Not terribly convinced any U22 strategy works. This league is not a talent finishing school and becoming one is much harder than the cheaper owners believe it is in their pipe dream of buying assets and consistently selling them on for more.

    Young impactful players are rare and will be gone too soon to build around. The less impactful ones don’t equate to one marquee DP even if it’s x2.
    Any player with a DP label, even if it's a young DP, is going to be under too much pressure to produce immediately. These young DPs are more like projects that you hope they pan out.
    But, I'd rather give homegrown youngsters the chance to shine, unless this young DP is a can't miss player that's going to produce immediately.

    What I'd do is raid Liga MX and South America for DP or TAM striker. Don't get a Mexican striker from Liga MX, because even if he can score, he'd be getting too much drama from Mexican media. But buy an int'l striker who's score at a decent rate in Liga MX. Find a mid 20s striker in who's scoring, but somehow slipped through the crack. Those guys can probably be signed for relatively cheap, and I'd bet they are more hungry for success in MLS than someone from Europe coming to MLS.
    Other teams in the league have figured this out, and they are going after guys like Cristian Arango, Raul Ruidiaz and Gustavo Bou for striker power.

    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

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  13. #1843
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Not terribly convinced any U22 strategy works. This league is not a talent finishing school and becoming one is much harder than the cheaper owners believe it is in their pipe dream of buying assets and consistently selling them on for more.

    Young impactful players are rare and will be gone too soon to build around. The less impactful ones don’t equate to one marquee DP even if it’s x2.
    Totally agree with this.

    To those that want us to be an Ajax or Dortmund, consider that’s happening at FC Dallas. Arguably the best academy system in all of MLS, has ties to Bayern who look at them as the breeding ground for top end young talent and what happens there? The young stars are plucked away as soon as possible. McKennie, Richards both gone before they even had any impact on MLS, and Pepsi has had one year with them. Their team has been mediocre. I don’t want MLSE to be like the Hunts and just earn revenue from their development system without really trying to be a winner. As exciting as the prospect is of having your local talent grow up together and win trophies, the great ones will be gone in 1-2 years max, other examples are Adams, Aaronson, and Clarke.

    As for the U22 strategy, in order for this to be truly effective, your u22s need to be standouts compared to everyone else in the league. It’s hard enough finding these players that aren’t already out in Europe, and so it’s not a system that guarantees results.

    MLSE want this team to be a winner. You have a much better chance of that by bringing in proven talent for longer terms. Maybe if their youth scouting gets better they’ll take more chances of signing a u22 but honestly if you can have 5 potentially good players vs 3 bonafide difference makers, I’d take the latter especially if your goal to to play attractive winning football and to beat the La Liga teams. Finally, if your other goal is to grow the market for this sport which definitely is for MLSE, you don’t do that by signing Klimalas, Yearwoods, Rodrigeuz’s, Cabral’s etc. Not yet at least, as nobody knows them and it wont build any hype. Just look at the spectacular failure that is Soteldo. That guy came in thinking he’d do it all himself and although he was flashy he just did not fit this team.

  14. #1844
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    ^Dallas is not trying to be Dortmund or Ajax. Dortmund and Ajax buy a lot of top young players.

    Dallas are pretty unique. They have a catchment area with no historical youth soccer infrastructure, but where youth soccer is exploding. Imagine Toronto without Sigma or any of the rest. Then layer on a cheapskate ownership with a stadium way out in the burbs... nobody else with that particular setup (except Colorado maybe! As I understand it Houston is different, that city has longstanding soccer academies with Mexican ties)
    Last edited by ensco; 12-30-2021 at 06:50 PM.
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  15. #1845
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    I still believe that if you are looking for young talent that Africa and Asia need to be scouted much more. South America is at the point of being plucked clean of young talent.

  16. #1846
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    We are so big in Italy these days. Front page news, baby.


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    At the risk of making an exceedingly obvious point..

    Here we are talking about some sort of U22 strategy and combing the corners of the world to find talent. Meanwhile… we’re prepping to sell our own highly regarded prospect to some mega club, probably for a fraction of what he’ll be worth in a couple years if he works out?

  18. #1848
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    At the risk of making an exceedingly obvious point..

    Here we are talking about some sort of U22 strategy and combing the corners of the world to find talent. Meanwhile… we’re prepping to sell our own highly regarded prospect to some mega club, probably for a fraction of what he’ll be worth in a couple years if he works out?
    Aka why sell-on clauses exist. But that’s beside the point. A player like Akinola, Laryea or Shaffelberg gets sold to a European side, you’re going to be able to show more young players that we are a viable pipeline to Europe.

  19. #1849
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    https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer...wIrAyByCAtgRfk

    Interesting article from Buffery
    Giovinco's former agent Andrea D'Amico is involved as intermediary between TFC and Insigne.

    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

  20. #1850
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    At the risk of making an exceedingly obvious point..

    Here we are talking about some sort of U22 strategy and combing the corners of the world to find talent. Meanwhile… we’re prepping to sell our own highly regarded prospect to some mega club, probably for a fraction of what he’ll be worth in a couple years if he works out?
    I’d rather have Barco than JMR. It’s not comparable to talk about signing top quality u-22s against guys that at best are bench players right now. The only kids who should touch serious minutes based on past performances are Akinola and Priso (in that order).

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    I'd sell JMR now. Teams like Liverpool and Arsenal are already asking for him, it can realistically only go downhill from that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    I’d rather have Barco than JMR. It’s not comparable to talk about signing top quality u-22s against guys that at best are bench players right now. The only kids who should touch serious minutes based on past performances are Akinola and Priso (in that order).
    Agree with you on our youth players. Although I’d argue Perruzza should be given more “Mullins minutes”. Others extremely raw. If you told me we found Jayden Nelson on a futsal court in Săo Paulo and he’s never had a coach before I’d believe you.

    Still think U22 is sort of touch-and-go. Barco was a roller coaster ride for Atlanta to say the least… most of his production came last year. If he gets sold now… doesn’t exactly seem like a huge benefit.

  23. #1853
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    Still think our best youth prospect is Priso.

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    I am surprised all the discussion around the types of players or where they are from without a single mention of coaching on whether that makes a team or not. Just deciding to go the young SA route, or the older Europe route as one over the other is one minor part of a winning equation. And every teams winning equation is different.

    Look at PSG, they have a team that should never lose a game, and yet they can barely take the lead in Ligue one. Would love anyone be able to name a team, at any point in history, that did well without having a top coach.

    Ajax is famous for having youth development because of their style and investment in the academy. But their senior team is very up and down, they are only amazing right now because they have probably the next best head coach.

    Whatever route we take on getting players, as long as it is aligned to what Bob Bradley is looking for then we should be happy. If insigne is what he wants to continue his roster build, then we should get him.

    May we never go back to the days of Mo Johnson picking random UK players who had a clip on YouTube or Ali Curtis over paying mls players who were 2 - 4 years past their, even remotely, decent season.

    We need a standout player in each third of the pitch and a solid core of average players around them.

  25. #1855
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    Using the u-22 rule on a defender to me seems ideal. DP's are typically attackers, why not focus your u-22 spot(s) on the backline? MLS clubs have typically struggled to develop centerbacks, so why not find one from elsewhere? If he pans out you will find a club in Europe desperate to pay you for him. If he is just alright? You got a defender who will play for your club for a decade. If he sucks? Cut your loses and try again.

  26. #1856
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    Using the u-22 rule on a defender to me seems ideal. DP's are typically attackers, why not focus your u-22 spot(s) on the backline? MLS clubs have typically struggled to develop centerbacks, so why not find one from elsewhere? If he pans out you will find a club in Europe desperate to pay you for him. If he is just alright? You got a defender who will play for your club for a decade. If he sucks? Cut your loses and try again.
    I'd argue that MLS has better track of developing defenders than attackers.

    U22 spot on a CB... it could work, but only if he's got a good CB partner. Mavinga isn't the CB to teach a young CB how to do the job.

    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

  27. #1857
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    we still need a #1 cb...mavinga is a weak #2 injured half the time and cant run a backline,oneil a #3 .a u 22 for #4

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    o'neill is probably a starter in this team...was mostly a starter on a very strong seattle team...started most of their regular season games and all their playoff games in the last two seasons...+ hes at a great age for a defender at 28...no way hes coming here to be a backup

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amir. View Post
    o'neill is probably a starter in this team...was mostly a starter on a very strong seattle team...started most of their regular season games and all their playoff games in the last two seasons...+ hes at a great age for a defender at 28...no way hes coming here to be a backup
    instead of who?
    its not like he had 100 offers.and is probs at 200 -250k.but he will play alot because of mavinga s injuries,we still need a solid #1
    Last edited by reggie; 12-30-2021 at 10:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrillos View Post
    I am surprised all the discussion around the types of players or where they are from without a single mention of coaching on whether that makes a team or not. Just deciding to go the young SA route, or the older Europe route as one over the other is one minor part of a winning equation. And every teams winning equation is different.

    Look at PSG, they have a team that should never lose a game, and yet they can barely take the lead in Ligue one. Would love anyone be able to name a team, at any point in history, that did well without having a top coach.

    Ajax is famous for having youth development because of their style and investment in the academy. But their senior team is very up and down, they are only amazing right now because they have probably the next best head coach.

    Whatever route we take on getting players, as long as it is aligned to what Bob Bradley is looking for then we should be happy. If insigne is what he wants to continue his roster build, then we should get him.

    May we never go back to the days of Mo Johnson picking random UK players who had a clip on YouTube or Ali Curtis over paying mls players who were 2 - 4 years past their, even remotely, decent season.

    We need a standout player in each third of the pitch and a solid core of average players around them.
    Avram Grant took Chelsea to the Champions league final in 2008 only to lose on penalties when John Terry slipped

 

 

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