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  1. #1291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    Here is my biggest problem with SA acquisitions, do the players really want to be here? I think Soteldo with Poz and a healthy finisher would be exciting but does he want to be here (can't tell with the rumors and Covid last year, he hasn't seen Toronto)
    I think it depends on the player. Laba seemed quite happy here and wanted to stay even when he was on the trade block. Auro seems to be perfectly fine.

    But it’s definitely something to assess. Guys looking for a good pay packet and a stable lifestyle will like it here. Anyone who thinks this is a pit stop to Europe is going to be unhappy.

  2. #1292
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    ^ Said more eloquently...

  3. #1293
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    I think it's possible to be a pipeline club, yet still have stability. I would only have one or two players that would fit that mold, with other options waiting in the wings or scouted to replace them when they get sold on. The contracts should be 2+1 and if more than one player fits the mold on the team their contracts should be offset by a year so there is not a large loss of continuity. Have good long-term core players (with academy-graduate understudies) that the tactics are built around and I think it could work.

  4. #1294
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    I think people are reading way too much into where the player is from and drawing conclusions from a small sample of other transfers. I think I general the idea of buying a DP with resale value vs one with none is all that's at play here and it makes way more sense to do the former. Look at Soteldo, comes in and doesn't set the world on fire and we still have an asset we can leverage to get someone worth $10m, so what have we lost? It's a gamble with much lower stakes if this is worst case scenario vs buying an aging player in Europe you have to pay 2x their market value for, if they work, great, but if they bust then you take a massive loss since nobody else will cover their wages or pay a fee for someone earning so much.

    Look at Jozys new deal for the opposite. The initial signing, no arguments, but we invested $$ in the new deal, he was a bust with injuries, and now we're probably buying him out because he has negative resale value. That's the worst case scenario for someone on the wrong side of 30 with no resale value if things don't work out.

    Best case scenario? You get a star that puts bums on seats now, helps you win now and make a huge profit. It's rare but it's just an example of the higher ceilings these deals have, too.

  5. #1295
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    I think people are reading way too much into where the player is from and drawing conclusions from a small sample of other transfers. I think I general the idea of buying a DP with resale value vs one with none is all that's at play here and it makes way more sense to do the former. Look at Soteldo, comes in and doesn't set the world on fire and we still have an asset we can leverage to get someone worth $10m, so what have we lost? It's a gamble with much lower stakes if this is worst case scenario vs buying an aging player in Europe you have to pay 2x their market value for, if they work, great, but if they bust then you take a massive loss since nobody else will cover their wages or pay a fee for someone earning so much.

    Look at Jozys new deal for the opposite. The initial signing, no arguments, but we invested $$ in the new deal, he was a bust with injuries, and now we're probably buying him out because he has negative resale value. That's the worst case scenario for someone on the wrong side of 30 with no resale value if things don't work out.

    Best case scenario? You get a star that puts bums on seats now, helps you win now and make a huge profit. It's rare but it's just an example of the higher ceilings these deals have, too.
    So.... we paid $6M for Soteldo and I would guess he's worth $2M now. That is the problem.

    That whole "swap" idea was obviously ridiculous and the rumours have since adjusted accordingly.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  6. #1296
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    So.... we paid $6M for Soteldo and I would guess he's worth $2M now. That is the problem.
    If we're getting an asset allegedly worth $10m then that doesn't quite add up.

    And this is worst case scenario. We still have someone with resale value and a contract you can shift - if we floated Soteldo on the open market we'd have bidders, even if we can't recoup all we paid we'll recoup a decent % of it and that's for a player who failed. Worst case scenario for an aging European export is you have to pay 7 figures to them just to make them go away. Buying a player who will still have market value a year on is simply a gamble with lower downside and higher upside.
    Last edited by JoesphNdo; 12-21-2021 at 11:36 AM.

  7. #1297
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    To me Priso is a baller. This whole Nestor idea is fine as long as TFC can take advantage of the U23 DP. None of this makes any sense if we can't defend and score goals a CB and ST are a priority for this club and we need to make a statement this off season to put us up there with the elite of the league. If Nestor is a go them play Priso along side of him. That's 2 spots taken on the staring 11 and leaves us with 9 to fill. Osorio is a definite starter. So that makes 8 left. With Altidore hopefully gone and Soteldo too there are so many cleats to fill this roster I dont see this management making this happen unless the bloody big deal 2.0 happens again and soon. The clock is ticking and with this pandemic and lockdowns on the horizon it seems like everything is going against the grain. Nothing seems easy for TFC the last 3 years and I am getting a little inpatient. Hopefully this club makes a big splash or 2 and we can all feel like we belong again.

  8. #1298
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    So.... we paid $6M for Soteldo and I would guess he's worth $2M now. That is the problem.

    That whole "swap" idea was obviously ridiculous and the rumours have since adjusted accordingly.
    Just because they're asking for $10M doesn't mean the player is worth $10M or that they will get what they want.

    Main thing; Brazil football is fairly shit. Anybody good is long gone by 21. Only the ones Europe didn't covet end up still there in their 20's and then the market drops to lower tier Euro leagues, who can't afford to risk a loss on transfer $$$, and the more likely choices of Mexico, another SA league, or MLS.

    I can see SP wanting Soteldo and having no money. They'll dangle this $10M price tag and try to get TFC to pay as much of Soteldo's salary as possible. TFC will probably do it as it's the only way to get rid of Soteldo and that loss is an issue you can hang on Curtis so it's easy to 'write off'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    If we're getting an asset allegedly worth $10m then that doesn't quite add up.
    Have to remember that just a couple season's ago Santos wanted $17M+ for Soteldo from Atlanta and we got him for $6M. Pandemic vs what they ask for usually ends up being quite a different number.
    Last edited by Ultra & Proud; 12-21-2021 at 12:43 PM.

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    Yeah I have to say I have zero idea what Nestor is worth. I think it’s a lot more than $2M though. Just based on age and number of games played.

    (I disagree that all Brazilians are “long gone” to Europe before their 20s. That is definitely true if your name is Neymar or Ronaldinho, sure…)
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Yeah I have to say I have zero idea what Nestor is worth. I think it’s a lot more than $2M though. Just based on age and number of games played.

    (I disagree that all Brazilians are “long gone” to Europe before their 20s. That is definitely true if your name is Neymar or Ronaldinho, sure…)
    All the really good ones are. Sure there can be a few late bloomers but usually it's just the leftovers.

    Also that $2M figure is one arbitrarily made up for Soteldo. The previous rumored one was $3M for 50%. He hasn't lost his value in Brazil where he was great. He just lost it all in MLS where he was average and troubled.
    Last edited by Ultra & Proud; 12-21-2021 at 01:52 PM.

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    Signing Nestor would perfectly tee up a Delgado trade.

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    I think Soteldo's value is very impaired by what happened here. You see this all the time in world football. One bad year, especially in a secondary market, and, oh boy…

    You see this all the time in players cycling out of China and the Middle East. Yannick Carrasco is the player that comes to mind.
    Last edited by ensco; 12-21-2021 at 02:36 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    All the really good ones are. Sure there can be a few late bloomers but usually it's just the leftovers.

    Also that $2M figure is one arbitrarily made up for Soteldo. The previous rumored one was $3M for 50%. He hasn't lost his value in Brazil where he was great. He just lost it all in MLS where he was average and troubled.
    South American Leftovers in European terms can still be quite useful here. There are a lot of things that make a player unappealing to the top clubs that otherwise wouldn’t hold them back here.

  15. #1305
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I think Soteldo's value is very impaired by what happened here. You see this all the time in world football. One bad year, especially in a secondary market, and, oh boy…

    You see this all the time in players cycling out of China and the Middle East. Yannick Carrasco is the player that comes to mind.
    He didn't manage to settle and it was during the pandemic with all that we had to deal with during it. He's not the only one who hit MLS and had problems fitting it. Also he didn't fail here. He didn't put up Brenner numbers (Brazil's leading scorer before going to Cinci and landing with a thud). He had respectable but unspectacular numbers and pretty much in line with his pay bracket. As for a MLS being a secondary market, that's what Brazil is too.

  16. #1306
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    There's also this expectation that DPs have to produce immediately or they're a failure.

    Sometimes even the best players take a season to adjust to a new league

    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

  17. #1307
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    yefe was not that bad last season,3-4 goals and 10 assist in 25 games with no strikers and a off form poz,add a good striker he could be a 8 and 20 guy which is not bad.i think anybody would take that for a 2 mil dp

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    ^ One of Poz or Yefe has to go.

    Both Poz and Yefe need to be on the ball, and neither knows what to do when the other is on it. Life is too short for this.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  19. #1309
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    i agree...im sure it will be yefe going,tfc sent a trainer to spain to set up a workout program for poz.
    Last edited by reggie; 12-21-2021 at 06:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    All the really good ones are. Sure there can be a few late bloomers but usually it's just the leftovers.

    Also that $2M figure is one arbitrarily made up for Soteldo. The previous rumored one was $3M for 50%. He hasn't lost his value in Brazil where he was great. He just lost it all in MLS where he was average and troubled.
    I mean, all I did was google “Brazilian transfers to Europe”. Took 10 seconds. Every player listed as a candidate is 20 or older.
    https://apnews.com/article/soccer-sp...753fe76b29d5ab
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    yefe was not that bad last season,3-4 goals and 10 assist in 25 games with no strikers and a off form poz,add a good striker he could be a 8 and 20 guy which is not bad.i think anybody would take that for a 2 mil dp
    Would have to agree. These numbers are not that bad. Especially for a bottom feeding team with nothing close to a decent striker up front.
    I don’t know if he’d get to 8 goals and 20 assists but but 5 and 15 seems very doable and those are great numbers.

    The bigger issue is if he wants to play in MLS or otherwise can fit in with the team.

  22. #1312
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I mean, all I did was google “Brazilian transfers to Europe”. Took 10 seconds. Every player listed as a candidate is 20 or older.
    https://apnews.com/article/soccer-sp...753fe76b29d5ab
    This is a list of Brazilians that could go to Europe based on a journalist's opinion. MLS does one of these every off season. That's a long way from them actually going.

  23. #1313
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    ^ One of Poz or Yefe has to go.

    Both Poz and Yefe need to be on the ball, and neither knows what to do when the other is on it. Life is too short for this.
    Interesting that this is now accepted as accurate. Why couldn’t Curtis see this beforehand? Many of us on these boards said it at the time.

  24. #1314
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    Inter Milan, AC Milan, Juventus, AS Roma, Barcelona FC, Chelsea, Manchester United, and Tottenham
    are all still interested in Insigne, according to Italian media.

    Assuming that's correct I highly doubt we get him. They're all just waiting until January, as they can offer a deal for a free move six months before his contract expires in June.

    We're just a pace vehicle on this one, I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Inter Milan, AC Milan, Juventus, AS Roma, Barcelona FC, Chelsea, Manchester United, and Tottenham
    are all still interested in Insigne, according to Italian media.

    Assuming that's correct I highly doubt we get him. They're all just waiting until January, as they can offer a deal for a free move six months before his contract expires in June.

    We're just a pace vehicle on this one, I think.
    I think Insigne comes here. I just don't think we hear much of anything on this subject until January at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Inter Milan, AC Milan, Juventus, AS Roma, Barcelona FC, Chelsea, Manchester United, and Tottenham
    are all still interested in Insigne, according to Italian media.

    Assuming that's correct I highly doubt we get him. They're all just waiting until January, as they can offer a deal for a free move six months before his contract expires in June.

    We're just a pace vehicle on this one, I think.
    Not even. These stories about TFC have never come from a Gazzetta Della Sport or a Molinaro or a Davidson. This was always a total joke.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Not even. These stories about TFC have never come from a Gazzetta Della Sport or a Molinaro or a Davidson. This was always a total joke.
    Insigne's agent literally mentioned Toronto by name. Why are you so personally hurt by the thought of someone like Insigne coming to TFC?

  28. #1318
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    Insigne coming to TFC basically means he doesn't care to play in the next World Cup, but would rather have money.

    Defoe and Giovinco thought they could get both. Didn't work out for them.

    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

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    Looks like former TFC assistant Ewan Sharp is following Armas to Manchester United.

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    Also Soteldo to Sao Paulo seems to be picking up some steam.


 

 

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