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  1. #5251
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoodson View Post
    Unfortunately, there is a lot more which I can’t get into specifics about, but the deal was close to being done before the agent stepped in and put his two cents in
    Respectfully, I was a journalist for 25 years. Unless you're a primary source and were in California, you can't really know whether Bob Bradley's view influenced the decision. That's just logic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Respectfully, I was a journalist for 25 years. Unless you're a primary source and were in California, you can't really know whether Bob Bradley's view influenced the decision. That's just logic.
    Plus if this agent's opinion is so strong that it's the deal breaker then they would have consulted him before allowing Giovinco to trial and have it posted on their website and social media accounts. With how hush hush the FO is now with moves they aren't going to do some random silly move like this that could bring negative PR.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Plus if this agent's opinion is so strong that it's the deal breaker then they would have consulted him before allowing Giovinco to trial and have it posted on their website and social media accounts. With how hush hush the FO is now with moves they aren't going to do some random silly move like this that could bring negative PR.
    Sebastian is taking a roster spot at Sampdoria but wasn’t good enough for TFC , If this was a Bob Bradley decision then I would be concerned about Bradleys competence. I positive this is all about money. I’m not a huge Bradley fan but he’s not that daft.

  4. #5254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Section 223 View Post
    Sebastian is taking a roster spot at Sampdoria but wasn’t good enough for TFC , If this was a Bob Bradley decision then I would be concerned about Bradleys competence. I positive this is all about money. I’m not a huge Bradley fan but he’s not that daft.
    Bradley's system is very fast paced with a lot of movement. If Bradley saw Giovinco lost some legs he would say so to Manning. Italy is by and large a retirement/slow guy league plus Sampdoria are desperate, not big spenders, and the window closed anyway. Had to do something to try to stay up and this is a cheap swing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Section 223 View Post
    Sebastian is taking a roster spot at Sampdoria but wasn’t good enough for TFC , If this was a Bob Bradley decision then I would be concerned about Bradleys competence. I positive this is all about money. I’m not a huge Bradley fan but he’s not that daft.
    I’m with The Good Son on this , Sebastian’s former agent has definitely got skin in the game , I will wager large that another player who is represented by this agent will be with TFC shortly.

  6. #5256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Bradley's system is very fast paced with a lot of movement. If Bradley saw Giovinco lost some legs he would say so to Manning. Italy is by and large a retirement/slow guy league plus Sampdoria are desperate, not big spenders, and the window closed anyway. Had to do something to try to stay up and this is a cheap swing.
    So Serie A is now a retirement league for ex MLS players

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    You know that with the exception of Shaf tfc has zero speed and the midfield is arguably the slowest in the mls

    and if you think serie a is a retirement league and or slow you don’t watch a lot of football outside of probably mls or the epl where they run around like chickens with their heads cut off.

  8. #5258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Section 223 View Post
    I’m with The Good Son on this , Sebastian’s former agent has definitely got skin in the game , I will wager large that another player who is represented by this agent will be with TFC shortly.
    Well it was reported by Buffery that Giovinco was not impressive in camp and to be honest, he wasn't good in Saudi Arabia either. Add that to having almost a year off and being 35 and it's not surprising really.

    Like if this wasn't Giovinco and we were signing some other 35 year old forward who just went without a club after leaving the Middle East people would be asking if Curtis was still in charge. At some point we need to be realistic and figure a 35 year old Giovinco is a 35 year old Giovinco and not the 2015 era version.

  9. #5259
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Respectfully, I was a journalist for 25 years. Unless you're a primary source and were in California, you can't really know whether Bob Bradley's view influenced the decision. That's just logic.
    jloome I know you were an experienced and respected sports journalist for many years, but I'd think twice before questioning TheGoodson. Sports journalists (as opposed to investigative journalists) usually go only with official news sources or direct interviews and don't trade in rumours. However this thread is all about rumours, speculation, and the like. We like it that way! It's pretty obvious TheGoodson has at least some insider information, so we welcome his input here.


  10. #5260
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Respectfully, I was a journalist for 25 years. Unless you're a primary source and were in California, you can't really know whether Bob Bradley's view influenced the decision. That's just logic.
    jloome has always had a great cut-to-the-chase instinct for explaining how and why the chips may fall.
    At the same time, TheGoodson has a solid track record of prognostications that seem to come from an authoritative source.
    Far from wanting to see these two great board contributors tee off, I’m inclined to put a lot of stock in what each says, and see where it leads me.


    And it leads me to asking this question:


    Does Andrea D’Amico have too much influence with roster construction at TFC?


    Some musings follow that only the conspiracy theorists among us (as well as Mr Inbetween) might want to read.


    What do we know?


    (1) D’Amico and Giovinco had a nasty falling out three years ago. And they seem to have an ongoing axe to grind with one another and are happy to slag each other off
    (2) When Seba signed for Al Hilal, Manning waxed poetic about his ongoing great relationship with D’Amico, even though it was D’Amico who steered Seba to Riyadh and left TFC/Manning red-faced and in a pickle. I always found this a bit weird. It's like D’Amico has some Svengali thing going with Manning
    (3) Manning clearly leans heavily on D’Amico to this day. Didn’t he say, right after he scouted Insigne on Transfermkt, the first call he made was to D’Amico? And D’Amico now gets credit as the intermediary who brokered the deal. And obviously when Manning jets off to Italy, it’s D’Amico that sets the agenda for whom they’re scouting and meeting


    So, I think we can conclude that D’Amico has a lot of influence over roster building at TFC (without him, Manning’s ability to recruit top talent would be D.O.A).


    But yet, Seba pitches up at camp in Cali as a trialist or something of the sort. That could easily have been influenced by powers more senior than Manning who aren’t naive to the potential marketing benefit of having Seba on the team. Seba lives here. His kids go to school here. He’s not planning to live elsewhere. It is actually conceivable he would be at peace with having a lesser role (although not certain). But I can see that there were senior influences saying to Manning and Bradley, see if you can make this work.


    And then things transpire in two separate bubbles; the Maning | D’Amico bubble, and the Bradley | Bradley | Seba bubble out in Cali.


    Manning & D’Amico - For the sake of conspiracy-theorizing, let’s say D’Amico really has his nose out of joint over Seba’s return (which I believe). Let’s say he pulls back on offering to grease the skids on these Italy trips. Let’s say the reason Manning cancelled his last trip was actually because D’Amico all of a sudden became a bit less helpful. D’Amico basically has Manning over a barrel as best I can tell. Manning doesn’t have the relationships nor savoir faire to recruit in Europe.


    Out in Cali - To nobody’s surprise, it doesn’t seem like Seba hit it out of the park in training. I’m guessing Bradley Sr was scratching his head trying to figure out what to do with this version of Seba (who was never fast to begin with). Let’s analyze what Bradley said about Poz just a couple of days ago - he’s trying to get Poz to change his game in two major ways (1) quit chasing after the ball, let the ball find him when he’s in good places, and (2) contribute defensively. Now imagine Seba’s game. Seba is even farther away from being a Bradley style player, and offers less now than Poz. I’m sure Bradley looked at him and thought there is no way this is going to work. So then Bradley Sr talks to Bradley Jr and asks him whether it makes sense to create special dispensations for Seba in order to accommodate him in the team. Bradley Jr remembers Seba for his mercurialness, selfishness, and petulance, so he says, given Seba's diminished athleticism, and his ball-first game, it’s just not a good fit.


    So, when Manning asks how it’s going out in Cali, neither of the Bradleys is willing to go to the mat for Seba. This lets Manning off the hook. He reports upwards that while the marketing idea was genius, it’s going to hold back the team. D’Amico now feels like he’s stuck it to his nemesis one more time, and so he gets back to work organizing the Italy trip where he can make some money.


    So my query is, does Andrea D’Amico have way too much influence over TFC?

  11. #5261
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoodson View Post
    You know that with the exception of Shaf tfc has zero speed and the midfield is arguably the slowest in the mls

    and if you think serie a is a retirement league and or slow you don’t watch a lot of football outside of probably mls or the epl where they run around like chickens with their heads cut off.
    I know they take on a lot of mid 30's and older players that struggled in other leagues and they do well there. I don't watch it as much as I used to but from what I've seen, still all good for old, slow guys.

  12. #5262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gogon View Post
    jloome has always had a great cut-to-the-chase instinct for explaining how and why the chips may fall.
    At the same time, TheGoodson has a solid track record of prognostications that seem to come from an authoritative source.
    Far from wanting to see these two great board contributors tee off, I’m inclined to put a lot of stock in what each says, and see where it leads me.


    And it leads me to asking this question:


    Does Andrea D’Amico have too much influence with roster construction at TFC?


    Some musings follow that only the conspiracy theorists among us (as well as Mr Inbetween) might want to read.


    What do we know?


    (1) D’Amico and Giovinco had a nasty falling out three years ago. And they seem to have an ongoing axe to grind with one another and are happy to slag each other off
    (2) When Seba signed for Al Hilal, Manning waxed poetic about his ongoing great relationship with D’Amico, even though it was D’Amico who steered Seba to Riyadh and left TFC/Manning red-faced and in a pickle. I always found this a bit weird. It's like D’Amico has some Svengali thing going with Manning
    (3) Manning clearly leans heavily on D’Amico to this day. Didn’t he say, right after he scouted Insigne on Transfermkt, the first call he made was to D’Amico? And D’Amico now gets credit as the intermediary who brokered the deal. And obviously when Manning jets off to Italy, it’s D’Amico that sets the agenda for whom they’re scouting and meeting


    So, I think we can conclude that D’Amico has a lot of influence over roster building at TFC (without him, Manning’s ability to recruit top talent would be D.O.A).


    But yet, Seba pitches up at camp in Cali as a trialist or something of the sort. That could easily have been influenced by powers more senior than Manning who aren’t naive to the potential marketing benefit of having Seba on the team. Seba lives here. His kids go to school here. He’s not planning to live elsewhere. It is actually conceivable he would be at peace with having a lesser role (although not certain). But I can see that there were senior influences saying to Manning and Bradley, see if you can make this work.


    And then things transpire in two separate bubbles; the Maning | D’Amico bubble, and the Bradley | Bradley | Seba bubble out in Cali.


    Manning & D’Amico - For the sake of conspiracy-theorizing, let’s say D’Amico really has his nose out of joint over Seba’s return (which I believe). Let’s say he pulls back on offering to grease the skids on these Italy trips. Let’s say the reason Manning cancelled his last trip was actually because D’Amico all of a sudden became a bit less helpful. D’Amico basically has Manning over a barrel as best I can tell. Manning doesn’t have the relationships nor savoir faire to recruit in Europe.


    Out in Cali - To nobody’s surprise, it doesn’t seem like Seba hit it out of the park in training. I’m guessing Bradley Sr was scratching his head trying to figure out what to do with this version of Seba (who was never fast to begin with). Let’s analyze what Bradley said about Poz just a couple of days ago - he’s trying to get Poz to change his game in two major ways (1) quit chasing after the ball, let the ball find him when he’s in good places, and (2) contribute defensively. Now imagine Seba’s game. Seba is even farther away from being a Bradley style player, and offers less now than Poz. I’m sure Bradley looked at him and thought there is no way this is going to work. So then Bradley Sr talks to Bradley Jr and asks him whether it makes sense to create special dispensations for Seba in order to accommodate him in the team. Bradley Jr remembers Seba for his mercurialness, selfishness, and petulance, so he says, given Seba's diminished athleticism, and his ball-first game, it’s just not a good fit.


    So, when Manning asks how it’s going out in Cali, neither of the Bradleys is willing to go to the mat for Seba. This lets Manning off the hook. He reports upwards that while the marketing idea was genius, it’s going to hold back the team. D’Amico now feels like he’s stuck it to his nemesis one more time, and so he gets back to work organizing the Italy trip where he can make some money.


    So my query is, does Andrea D’Amico have way too much influence over TFC?
    Wow. This is a tour de force of good thinking combined with some sharp speculation. I doff my cap to you.

    It is normal to have close contacts. It is never good if in fact management starts to substitute the judgment of agents for their own independent thinking. We have seen that here before.
    Last edited by ensco; 02-10-2022 at 05:06 PM.
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  13. #5263
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    Pretty well every GM or coach in MLS seems to have a preferred or a few preferred agents. The question is, does it work for us? How close is too close? D'Amico is clearly just a pipeline for Italian players, how many of those is TFC going to sign? It's not like he's going to build the entire roster.


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    The conspiracy is closer to reality……

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Wow. This is a tour de force of good thinking combined with some sharp speculation. I doff my cap to you.
    You are too kind ensco.

    And I agree, it's troubling when management confuses agents' biases with independent thinking. There is a reason so many baseball players retain the services of Scott Boras

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoodson View Post
    The conspiracy is closer to reality……
    Thank you. I was hoping you would weigh in

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    Carlos Salcedo posted a few Instagram photos today. On the one where he's talking to Michael Bradley, you can see Auro in the background. Location is tagged to Austin, so maybe Auro isn't leaving?

    EDIT: Must have been an old photo, there's some stuff on Twitter showing him in Sao Paulo.
    Last edited by noxx98; 02-10-2022 at 05:29 PM.

  18. #5268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    jloome I know you were an experienced and respected sports journalist for many years, but I'd think twice before questioning TheGoodson. Sports journalists (as opposed to investigative journalists) usually go only with official news sources or direct interviews and don't trade in rumours. However this thread is all about rumours, speculation, and the like. We like it that way! It's pretty obvious TheGoodson has at least some insider information, so we welcome his input here.
    I wasn't a sports journalist, I just wrote a soccer column on the side. I was a hard news reporter, including many years as an investigative journalist.

    A source's accuracy in the past isn't the only issue when assessing the likelihood of a rumor to be true.

    For this to be true, we have to assume that
    A) manning is somehow subservient to the will of Giovinco's former agent, or his influence
    B) That the former agent will exercise that influence regardless of the potential negative income potential (from his cut of any deal that isn't made as a result)
    C) That manning is comfortable overriding or making a decision without Bob Bradley's input on whether he wants the player
    D) That Manning is comfortable telling either Seba or front office staff this info, to have them leak it
    E) That Bob Bradley is comfortable working with an acquisition agent who blackmails them over who they can sign (i.e. you won't get 'a' if you sign 'b', with Seba being b)

    It's just not very likely. More likely is that they drew up terms of a deal for Seba but it went no further because Bradley thought he would be not worth the outlay/disruption.

    When two parties see themselves as enemies, it's far more likely one side is being blamed for a deal falling apart based on hearsay.

    Again, I'm not saying it's not true. I'm just saying the logic doesn't jibe with the perceived reality.

  19. #5269
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    I wonder if other MLS teams fans get this in the weeds on the machinations of their front offices?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    I wonder if other MLS teams fans get this in the weeds on the machinations of their front offices?
    I dunno about other MLS teams, but certainly in this town, we have nothing on Leafs and Raptors fans and their near obsession with the inner workings of their front offices, and the relationships the key people have with ownership. Hell, forget the fans, the journalists covering those teams write reams of copy speculating on FO personnel changes, salaries of FO employees, how long they'll get until they are sacked, alignment of philosophies, roster moves, decision making autonomy or lack thereof. Maybe it comes with the territory when you're owned by MLSE?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gogon View Post
    I dunno about other MLS teams, but certainly in this town, we have nothing on Leafs and Raptors fans and their near obsession with the inner workings of their front offices, and the relationships the key people have with ownership. Hell, forget the fans, the journalists covering those teams write reams of copy speculating on FO personnel changes, salaries of FO employees, how long they'll get until they are sacked, alignment of philosophies, roster moves, decision making autonomy or lack thereof. Maybe it comes with the territory when you're owned by MLSE?
    From my time in media, I would say it reflects the notion that hockey, in particular, is the sole preoccupation of all male readers. It was such a dominant asset at a daily paper that hockey stories could trump almost anything of any scope in the newspaper.

    In other words, it's the same cultural fascination that sees football in England covered, rehashed and reinvented to that same speculative depth.

    Anyone tracking the Soteldo stories in S.A. got a good view of it. One outlet, in particular, speculated on his every instagram post, to absurd lengths. "He posted a thumbs up on instagram, which is the sign he gave after his second goal at the Copa two years ago, suggesting he would accept a move back to Santos..." etc.

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    My take is a bit more optimistic, and simple.

    - we may have known that Seba was never going to sign, but FO gets brownie points with supporters for giving him the chance and promoting that chance

    - it did Seba a favour by giving him a bit of leverage with sampdoria for getting the contract.

    - D’amico can be used as a bit of a scapegoat that both saves Giovinco some credibility, keeps our FO from looking too negative toward a club legend, and only “sacrifices” somebody most fans have no idea about.

    I do think Manning is a genuinely nice guy who is hopefully getting us back to the good reputation we had in the Bez days of treating current and former players with respect. I think this is one of those moves that shows this. For the most part, all parties walked away generally content.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    ^but aspiring to be the Spurs, that's just mean.
    Ha! A well thrust reposte.

    All kidding aside, oh I don't know, give TFC the New White Hart Lane Stadium, that pitch options mechanism...
    I think the echelon of LT/MU et al. at MLSE would embrace that for the better chance at a future NFL franchise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Pretty well every GM or coach in MLS seems to have a preferred or a few preferred agents. The question is, does it work for us? How close is too close? D'Amico is clearly just a pipeline for Italian players, how many of those is TFC going to sign? It's not like he's going to build the entire roster.
    All that comes to mind when talking about management in bed with an agent is Mo Johnston and Barry MacLean. It’s concerning on so many levels.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Pretty well every GM or coach in MLS seems to have a preferred or a few preferred agents. The question is, does it work for us? How close is too close? D'Amico is clearly just a pipeline for Italian players, how many of those is TFC going to sign? It's not like he's going to build the entire roster.
    I wonder if the difference here with D'Amico is, he's playing on both sides of the net. He was paid by TFC to work the Insigne deal on TFC's behalf. He doesn't represent Insigne. Yet, we are rumoured to be signing Criscito. He does represent Criscito. So, in this case he has an incentive to extract the most from TFC. Straight up conflict of interest if you switch hats at the drop of a hat. And as much as Criscito appears to be a fine player who has enjoyed a very nice career, I'm not sure a 36 year old left back would be at the top of Bradley's wishlist, yet there he is as a frontrunner to come in July. It's an odd relationship by my reckoning.

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    I can very easily imagine someone in Manning's position being told to sign “some big name Italians” last fall and suddenly feeling very much in need of connected friends over there, who might have interesting asking prices for their friendship and guidance.

    Of course I could just be imagining it.

    A lot of people are watching this with interest. I do think Andrea D'Amico would be interested in demonstrating that the pipeline from Italy to MLS runs through him, and only him.
    Last edited by ensco; 02-10-2022 at 07:27 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red CB Toronto View Post
    All that comes to mind when talking about management in bed with an agent is Mo Johnston and Barry MacLean. It’s concerning on so many levels.
    Just the mention of these names is going to a few people PTSD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    I wonder if other MLS teams fans get this in the weeds on the machinations of their front offices?

    From what I've seen, only Portland & Seattle fans go as far into the depths as this particular forum does.

    Portland fans have to right now because their head office is a PR disaster. Seattle fans consider themselves owners.

    Most others will complain (see Dallas fans screaming about Hollingshead to LAFC today) when prompted but prefer to just get to games - they more complain about the atmosphere then the squad build.

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    #$@!% hell mates, talk about stepping away for a while from the site and missing something!

    Gogon...
    Well thought and stated.
    A reasonable and honorable attempt to bridge the community gap between jloome and TheGoodsoon; me likes!
    Agree with your sentiments about jloome; lots of respect for him.
    I am also a supporter of TheGoodson and do not think he was for lack of a better word- pontificating.
    Welcome to the 'conspiracy' darkside or at least a strong hue of grey. As I have mentioned before, I think life is lived in the grey.
    Also, to explore civilly the space between possibility and probability, the in-between is what I enjoy about this Forum; Oldtimer well refereed.
    IMO, the friction of discussion sometimes leads to the diamond of an idea.
    Wish I could reply in such a manner as fast as you and many others on this site are able to on topics.
    It takes me much longer to digest, gather my thoughts and express them as coherently as many of you do so quickly on such matters.
    Thrillos, welcomed and appreciated commentary.

    Sidebar...
    #$@!% ensco, always with the great replies I wanted to say. I feel like the child tagging along behind and in the large cast shadow of someone older and wiser in the ways, wanting a grasshopper's chance to poke one's head into the sunlight; oooff!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    I wasn't a sports journalist, I just wrote a soccer column on the side. I was a hard news reporter, including many years as an investigative journalist.

    <snip>

    When two parties see themselves as enemies, it's far more likely one side is being blamed for a deal falling apart based on hearsay.

    Again, I'm not saying it's not true. I'm just saying the logic doesn't jibe with the perceived reality.
    Didn't realize you did investigative work. Apologies!

    I get using logic to test a story, but logic to work does often depend on having more facts than we actually have. We don't ever see the whole story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red CB Toronto View Post
    All that comes to mind when talking about management in bed with an agent is Mo Johnston and Barry MacLean. It’s concerning on so many levels.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Just the mention of these names is going to a few people PTSD.
    PTSD PTSD PTSD (any of us who've been around since that period).


    Fortunately there's few FO relationships quite as sleazy as that one was and I don't see that here.

    That being said I do agree that if a relationship is too close it won't work out to the club's favour.


 

 

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