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  1. #5221
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Yeah, Harvey Elliott suggested they should sign him. There were a few local blogger and press stories out of Liverpool saying they were impressed by his potential. I don't think they saw him as an Elliott or Davies level player though, who could step into the first team anytime soon. He'd be going there to train with the u23s and play in the Premier League 2.

    If they buy him, it will only be because they thought they saw distinct learning. Any junior player that comes with a big price tag attached they have to consider as a possible first teamer within a year or two, at most, or that investment is lost, as any team signing him after is likely to be from Championship or lower and to get him on a post-contract free transfer.
    Maybe this is just my naivety but I see the “go play fullback” move used by coaches when they want to get the sense of a players potential without de-railing everything else that’s happening on the field.

    Maybe it’s not his future (I kind of selfishly hope it’s not) but we’ll see.

  2. #5222
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    Even if he goes for free (Which he likely wont, but, they definitely will sell at a big loss), I'd *very* confidently say if you took their total spend on players (wages + fees) and subtracted transfer income and did the same with us their number is way way better than ours
    Their model is to roll the dice on young SA players to sell abroad fast and their management & fans think that is success. Our model is to get players to come here, stay a while, and win. Can't compare the two styles. Atlanta is more like Dallas than what we're doing.

  3. #5223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Their model is to roll the dice on young SA players to sell abroad fast and their management & fans think that is success. Our model is to get players to come here, stay a while, and win. Can't compare the two styles. Atlanta is more like Dallas than what we're doing.
    How is our style to win and theirs isn't when we've won the same amount of cups and have pretty comparable regular season records since they entered the league, if anything they'd maybe slightly shade it?

    I don't get the weird attitude towards Atlanta on this board, is it jealousy? I see it alot with comments about their team or transfers. I'm not even saying I'd switch places or strategies with them but they have no less claim to have winning as a strategy than we have (neither of us can claim it, frankly, not even close. Neither of us are Real Madrid even by MLS standards) and they've net spent less money than us. We're quite comparable clubs in stature and achievement

  4. #5224
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    How is our style to win and theirs isn't when we've won the same amount of cups and have pretty comparable regular season records since they entered the league, if anything they'd maybe slightly shade it?

    I don't get the weird attitude towards Atlanta on this board, is it jealousy? I see it alot with comments about their team or transfers. I'm not even saying I'd switch places or strategies with them but they have no less claim to have winning as a strategy than we have (neither of us can claim it, frankly, not even close. Neither of us are Real Madrid even by MLS standards) and they've net spent less money than us. We're quite comparable clubs in stature and achievement
    Just an FYI - ATL fans do not think they are near our stature & are right royally pissed off at their head office for not thinking beyond Tato Martinez.

    *******

    Its not jealousy - its contempt.

    ATL fans & managment thought they had created the "one true way". For Pete's sake, the equivalent of WTR for Atlanta were spouting how sophisticated & top European class their attack was....during the first half of their very first friendly against Charlston Battery.

    Then when Almiron & Tato left, it all fell apart.

    Atlanta had 2 good seasons. All tied to one coach & one player


    We had 3 - all tied to one coach & 2 players. BUT, we know how bad the bad times were. Which is why when 2021 happened, many of us remained.


    As to Atlanta, the idea that their approach is a money maker doesn't add up. I agree with U&P. They have won the roll of the dice once. Nobody else worked out. What ATL do have is a dominant forward in his prime - Josef is an anomaly in this league. Nobody comes close to his effect on MLS in the last 5 years.

  5. #5225
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Just an FYI - ATL fans do not think they are near our stature & are right royally pissed off at their head office for not thinking beyond Tato Martinez.

    *******

    Its not jealousy - its contempt.

    ATL fans & managment thought they had created the "one true way". For Pete's sake, the equivalent of WTR for Atlanta were spouting how sophisticated & top European class their attack was....during the first half of their very first friendly against Charlston Battery.

    Then when Almiron & Tato left, it all fell apart.

    Atlanta had 2 good seasons. All tied to one coach & one player


    We had 3 - all tied to one coach & 2 players. BUT, we know how bad the bad times were. Which is why when 2021 happened, many of us remained.


    As to Atlanta, the idea that their approach is a money maker doesn't add up. I agree with U&P. They have won the roll of the dice once. Nobody else worked out. What ATL do have is a dominant forward in his prime - Josef is an anomaly in this league. Nobody comes close to his effect on MLS in the last 5 years.
    They've rolled the dice and won at least three times. Two players sold at a profit and a third whose one of the best strikers the leagues ever had, maybe the best

    I agree it isn't a money maker and it isn't the be all end all definitive strategy, but that doesn't give us reason to be snobby on the other side. They've had comparable results to ours and their net spend has been far lower, so I'm not sure where we get off with comments like our culture is winning and they're more like Dallas or they've just gotten lucky a couple of times. They've gotten comparable results with less money spent, bottom line end of.

  6. #5226
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    He isn't coming in July either, guys.


  7. #5227
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    They've rolled the dice and won at least three times. Two players sold at a profit and a third whose one of the best strikers the leagues ever had, maybe the best

    I agree it isn't a money maker and it isn't the be all end all definitive strategy, but that doesn't give us reason to be snobby on the other side. They've had comparable results to ours and their net spend has been far lower, so I'm not sure where we get off with comments like our culture is winning and they're more like Dallas or they've just gotten lucky a couple of times. They've gotten comparable results with less money spent, bottom line end of.
    I am leaning more towards the OgtheDim et al. camp on this matter.
    I think, at this time, it is not within TFC/MLSE's DNA to engage in that sort of football activity.
    I do not believe it will ever be.
    I am not sure that is an elitist position. For me, much more MLS/football pragmatic.
    Although the DP/U-22 discussion is enjoyed, I do not even see that happening.
    IMO BB has telegraphed his/TFC's intentions, they are and will be in the mid-interim a star DP team.
    BB will engage in U-22 activity, but it will less likely be from SA, and much more likely domestics; CAN and more specifically ONT.
    BB's stated intentions and positions, the in-house/academy/teams reboot, and the welcomed re-look at youth participants at training camp, all suggest this strategy.

    Also...

    I am not so sure about the comparable results analogy. By what metrics?
    Within a specific timeline? Sure. Within payroll? Fine; double or more by TFC.
    Within Championships? Maybe.
    Within competitiveness? Nope... only a quarter to a fifth as successful as TFC for me depending on your stance...
    ATLU one MLS Championship.
    TFC one MLS Championship, two other MLS Championship Finals, one CONCACAF Champions League Final. Oh and one MLS Supporters Shield.
    TFC and us supporters by far the more rewarded.
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 02-10-2022 at 10:09 AM.

  8. #5228
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    I'm getting so fucking hyped for this season!!!!!!


  9. #5229
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    He isn't coming in July either, guys.
    What a way to go MikeForbes. You just had to deliver that news and shatter my hopes and dreams first thing this morning!

    Have you no compassion?

    later eventually .

  10. #5230
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    They started last season promising to play the Canadian youth but then quickly panicked and brought in + fielded the fringe veteran Americans.

    Hopefully they stay true this time and we don't see someone like Juan Agudelo come in on a balloon contract.

  11. #5231
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirBobSaget View Post
    They started last season promising to play the Canadian youth but then quickly panicked and brought in + fielded the fringe veteran Americans.

    Hopefully they stay true this time and we don't see someone like Juan Agudelo come in on a balloon contract.
    I agree.

    And by the way, SirBogSaget, I realize it's a bit belated, but I'm sorry or your loss

  12. #5232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Inbetween View Post
    What a way to go MikeForbes. You just had to deliver that news and shatter my hopes and dreams first thing this morning!

    Have you no compassion?

    later eventually .
    It's the stages of grief. Denial, pain, bargaining, acceptance.
    Time to accept we had a great run with Seba that we'll always remember but is now firmly in the past. Time to move on.

  13. #5233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    It's the stages of grief. Denial, pain, bargaining, acceptance.
    Time to accept we had a great run with Seba that we'll always remember but is now firmly in the past. Time to move on.
    Et tu Brute?

  14. #5234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Inbetween View Post
    Et tu Brute?
    We're not your assassins, maybe more like your friendly bartender giving you some wise advice. Our sympathies!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Inbetween View Post
    What a way to go MikeForbes. You just had to deliver that news and shatter my hopes and dreams first thing this morning!

    Have you no compassion?

    later eventually .
    Sorry, my friend! Just remember the little Italian who IS coming in July.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    Sorry, my friend! Just remember the little Italian who IS coming in July.
    Yeah, not a bad piece of business, eh! I am more than OK with those plug out - plug in dreams of TFC future.

    To more Championships and their fun journey...

  17. #5237
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    They've rolled the dice and won at least three times. Two players sold at a profit and a third whose one of the best strikers the leagues ever had, maybe the best

    I agree it isn't a money maker and it isn't the be all end all definitive strategy, but that doesn't give us reason to be snobby on the other side. They've had comparable results to ours and their net spend has been far lower, so I'm not sure where we get off with comments like our culture is winning and they're more like Dallas or they've just gotten lucky a couple of times. They've gotten comparable results with less money spent, bottom line end of.
    Martinez wasn't a dice roll. He was a failed Euro striker. That's different and they didn't drop a huge transfer fee on him. Totally different.

    Yes, for Pity they pretty much got their money back but they were also fairly junk during his time. Barco will be a big, big loss and they accomplished nothing with him either. Lost with LGP too and soon with Damm. With Almiron they won a cup and got a transfer fee that was good.

    Like I said depends on what you consider success. We made 3 finals (won one) and made the the CCL finals. All that equalled more revenue streams with seat sales and advertising during the runs. Yes our payroll was higher but not by a lot but their transfer fees paid were much higher during this stretch. In that time they won one cup and a fake friendly trophy and that's it and it happened when they were flush with new team allocation money. Now they're just another mid tier Eastern Conference squad. Does anyone see them challenging for anything anytime soon? No. We're a different story and doing things a different way. It's like comparing Ajax to Man City in recruitment strategies.

  18. #5238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Martinez wasn't a dice roll. He was a failed Euro striker. That's different and they didn't drop a huge transfer fee on him. Totally different.

    Yes, for Pity they pretty much got their money back but they were also fairly junk during his time. Barco will be a big, big loss and they accomplished nothing with him either. Lost with LGP too and soon with Damm. With Almiron they won a cup and got a transfer fee that was good.

    Like I said depends on what you consider success. We made 3 finals (won one) and made the the CCL finals. All that equalled more revenue streams with seat sales and advertising during the runs. Yes our payroll was higher but not by a lot but their transfer fees paid were much higher during this stretch. In that time they won one cup and a fake friendly trophy and that's it and it happened when they were flush with new team allocation money. Now they're just another mid tier Eastern Conference squad. Does anyone see them challenging for anything anytime soon? No. We're a different story and doing things a different way. It's like comparing Ajax to Man City in recruitment strategies.
    I don't know what to tell you if you think we'rewMan City. We're not even Tottenham until we can safely say we've spent more time as a credible team in this league than an abject whipping boy joke and we can't even do that yet.

    Other than a couple of cup runs which are largely luck based I see two identical stature teams. For all what you're saying, they've pretty much equaled or bettered our point totals since inception (I'd havve to add it up, but we're close), won 1 cup each and spent less money doing it. How that makes them Ajax and us City is beyond me, except in some kind of dream world where we're a perennial contender and winner setting the standard for the league

    Also our pay roll was higher, and yes, by *alot*. Like, alot alot.

    And to be clear, I love where we're at and where we're going, but I can also see merit in what others are doing even if their fans are annoying
    Last edited by JoesphNdo; 02-10-2022 at 12:30 PM.

  19. #5239
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    ^but aspiring to be the Spurs, that's just mean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    He isn't coming in July either, guys.

    you can thank Insgine’s agent and former agent of Seba for being the person behind the scene making sure the deal didn’t happen

  21. #5241
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoodson View Post
    you can thank Insgine’s agent and former agent of Seba for being the person behind the scene making sure the deal didn’t happen
    Oh thats too juicy for you to leave out the details.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Martinez wasn't a dice roll. He was a failed Euro striker.
    Just semantics, but he was an average (not failed) Euro winger. He played nearly 60 games for Torino, none at striker. Tata Martino converted him to striker in Atlanta.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Oh thats too juicy for you to leave out the details.....
    He's been their principle advisor while shopping in Italy this offseason. He has the front office's ear. He and Seba can't stand each other. I don't know that there's much more to it.

    But I wouldn't put this decision down to anything less than seeing in camp that he's out of gas. If they were going to just defer to his former agent, they wouldn't have taken him to LA in the first place.

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    Unfortunately, there is a lot more which I can’t get into specifics about, but the deal was close to being done before the agent stepped in and put his two cents in

  25. #5245
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    I wasn't a fan of the nostalgia tour anyway. Now we have a fistful of GAM we can use to address additional needs. The roster is extremely thin right now.

  26. #5246
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    I don't know what to tell you if you think we'rewMan City. We're not even Tottenham until we can safely say we've spent more time as a credible team in this league than an abject whipping boy joke and we can't even do that yet.
    Man City as in we have a large wage bill and we try to buy expensive players and then hold on to them while trying to win.

    Saying Atlanta as Ajax as they actively try to buy young players to develop for a couple years and then sell on at profit.

    And if cup runs are just luck then that's all Atlanta has because they never won a shield.

    Also as for total wage spend Atlanta has now passed us by about $4M (2021) numbers. Obviously after Insigne + whoever else we will be higher but they aren't running some low budget, high output squad there.

  27. #5247
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    But I wouldn't put this decision down to anything less than seeing in camp that he's out of gas. If they were going to just defer to his former agent, they wouldn't have taken him to LA in the first place.
    I agree with this. I have a feeling Bradley didn't think he could offer much more at this point than one/some of our youngsters and for sure not enough to stand in the way of minutes of the youth we have.

  28. #5248
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    Kwame Awuah announces he isn't returning to Forge. Wouldn't be bad for TFC to give him a look as potential depth at LB.

  29. #5249
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    Quote Originally Posted by noxx98 View Post

    Kwame Awuah announces he isn't returning to Forge. Wouldn't be bad for TFC to give him a look as potential depth at LB.
    Is he not in camp with the Whitecaps right now?

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red CB Toronto View Post
    Is he not in camp with the Whitecaps right now?
    He trialed with Vancouver, but they decided not to sign him. Apparently roster compliance issues, even though he did well in training camp. https://forgefcnews.com/2022/02/03/k...s-after-trial/

 

 

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