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  1. #4561
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    Jozy is a "dark cloud" over this board more than the actual team at this point. We need a resolution and the Jozy Appreciation thread.

  2. #4562
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    Quote Originally Posted by Section 223 View Post
    If the reports are true that itís longer, then this club has learned nothing.
    I think there are really 2 possible scenarios with respect to Salcedoís DP status:


    1. He is on a guaranteed salary north of $1.612 million per year
    or
    2. He is on exactly $1.612 million per year


    Iím willing to wager it is the latter.


    If he were on north of $1.612 million per year then there is nothing that can be done with xAM to alter his status and repurpose his DP slot. I canít see that ever being the case. If the plan was to commit a DP slot for three years to a CB, MLSE would have spent a lot more money on one. But if this is the case, then you're quite right; this club has learned nothing.


    If he is on $1.612 million per year, then TFC has maximum roster flexibility. First, he can be declared a DP (provided there is a slot for him as a DP). This is whatís happened, and this is great because it means he counts against the cap to only the tune of $612,500 without our having to use a dime of xAM against him. That keeps our xAM powder dry. But, if we later find another DP candidate we want, we can clear that DP slot by applying xAM against Salcedo at that time. Surely this must be the case, no? (And if we we donít have quite enough xAM, weíll ship out a player or two for some more and go from there.)


    So by declaring Salcedo as a DP now, this is actually a bookkeeping move, albeit a really solid bookkeeping move.


    Also, this is where the Yefe transfer was critically important. Without Soteldo going the other way, we would have had to pay a transfer fee on Salcedo and that fee would have been amortized over the course of his contract for the purpose of calculating his MLS roster status. In short, he would have been a DP with no recourse over the entire 3 years. (It has been speculated that the net transfer loss weíve accumulated on Soteldo may have to be amortized against Salcedo, but I canít find anything in the rules to substantiate this, nor refute it, so Iím going to tentatively assume this isnít the case.)


    So yes, he comes aboard as a DP, but heís a DP for the purpose of preserving our xAM and our flexibility. And heís a hell of a good player.

  3. #4563
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gogon View Post
    I have a question about how this could work in theory (I’m not suggesting this is the path the parties are going down, nor should go down).

    Hypothetical scenario:

    Jozy’s agent has found a team willing to pay him $500k per year on a 2 year deal.
    Jozy asks TFC to buy out his remaining year at $3.6 million.
    Therefore Jozy earns $4.6 million over the course of the next 24 months.
    After which, Jozy retires from playing (assuming there is no other deal on the table for him in 2024).


    What if…. TFC offered Jozy the same $500k per year for 2 years, but for years 2023 and 2024.
    In other words, TFC agrees to pay Jozy $4.6 million over the next 36 months.
    But the quid pro quo is, Jozy agrees to restructure his contract so he actually earns $1.533 million per season for the next three seasons.
    Then TFC has him as a TAM player who can be bought down.
    Obviously this frees up the DP slot on the roster.
    If a DP striker is then brought in, Jozy no longer needs to play 80 percent of the minutes and bang in 18 to 20 goals. At a lower usage rate, he’d probably be effective anywhere he plays for the minutes he’s on the pitch.


    Two questions:


    1. Are such machinations even allowed under the byzantine MLS salary and roster rules?


    2. Is there any chance such a scenario is being contemplated by either party?


    Because the one part of the Jozy saga that isn’t passing the sniff-test for me is… why hasn’t the buyout happened? MLSE doesn’t need Jozy’s permission or approval. This is a situation where MLSE can act unilaterally. So why haven’t they? I don’t get it.


    (Just to be clear, I’m not advocating for bringing Jozy back. But I sure did love watching him play when he was at peak Jozy.)
    Thank you for at least theoretically entertaining the possibility; for venturing to the Dark-side towards me on this matter.
    I, as a few others, have advocated aspects of this possibility and for Giovinco as well.
    Strictly in a MLSE, less SPORTS/Football sense, more ENTERTAINMENT/Business sense.
    While nostagia is great, one or both considerations are still a pure operations calculus for me.
    They provide, at the Price Is Right, all sorts of Moneyball, stop-gap, redundancy, marketing momentum, solutions to any plan B-C-D, if-ands-buts scenarios.
    If Vazquez signed with LAG for around $500K and seems to have played in 28 matches, started in 21, scored three goals and had 6 assists...
    Then there is space and role for either during this transition.
    Someone broke the glass and pushed the big red panic button at MLSE. IMO it wasn't Manning or even TanUji.
    It was the ticketing/marketing trust. The bean counters and they crapped their facts and figures pants with the projections against TFC current performance.
    The Leafs and Raps both Covid bounced back to better degrees. Maybe TFC should not have been so generous with their SSH; have taken the CFM model.
    For me Insigne was not Plan A, he was a gift from God that fell in Manning's/our lap.
    Since then it feels that there has been a bit of a scramble to shed/rebuild around him to which fruits won't bear or ripen until late this season and into next.
    I do not know if I missed something, but for me the TFC blueprint for the next few years was clearly telegraphed by BobTheBuilder in the Grant Wahl Podcast.

    With Giovinco already in camp, even to me Jozy seems less likely an also option.
    I do not know about other leagues, but Jozy should have a similar Giovinco MLS option closer to his Florida home.
    It was previously mentioned by a few in this thread that any Jozy inaction, one of the scenarios, was that the buy-out may have to be applied to Soteldo if he became entrenched.
    Given that that trade seems to be moving forward, I expect some sort of clarity soon on Jozy's status.
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 01-28-2022 at 06:55 PM.

  4. #4564
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Inbetween View Post
    It was previously mentioned by a few in this thread that any Jozy inaction, one of the scenarios, was that the buy-out may have to be applied to Soteldo if he became entrenched.
    Given that that trade seems to be moving forward, I expect some sort of clarity soon on Jozy's status.
    This is a very good point. One would expect hot on the heels of the club formally announcing Soteldo's departure, a resolution to Jozy's status should be forthcoming. And from there, other dominoes can start to fall. But if it remains murky, then there is more than meets the eye. Intriguing

  5. #4565
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    Soteldo's highlight reel, FWIW


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Okay firstly, he burned all his bridges here and that's done. But for fun lets look at this, to begin he has an option for 2023 already so you would have to trigger that before the signing so there's $7.2M and a wasted DP spot for 2 more years. Then you could add two years at $500K but why would we and even if we did, he would never accept it but it should be allowable under MLS rules.
    Good points. I did a little digging. Gosh it's hard to find official information on MLS contract options. It does seem however, any option on Jozy is a team option, not a player option. And so it shouldn't impinge on any restructuring since it's not money Jozy is ever going to see under any scenario anyway. But then, there was an article in the Athletic last year that speculated Jozy may have a guaranteed payout if the team declined its option. If I understand correctly, this is commonplace in NBA and MLB contracts, whereby if a team declines its option the player receives $1m or $1.5m for their troubles. If Jozy has such a clause for even say $1m, then that would completely scuttle the back-of-envelope math I did, and make the whole restructuring scenario moot. And of course Jozy would be fully entitled to that payout as he signed that contract in good faith.

  7. #4567
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    To divert the Jozy talk: We need the real Alejandro Pozuelo this year. So badly. If we get last year's version we will be screwed even after Insigne shows up. He will have three defenders clung to him at all times.

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    Gio and the allocation order....

    I wonder if TFC hadn't done anything yet because they're actually trying to work the rules. Here's a scenario:

    1) TFC has their eyes on someone else that would fall into the allocation process (Yedlin, miazga, , etc) but not necessarily be a DP. We agree to terms then pay the obligatory $50k or whatever it is to move up a single spot.

    2) then Gio says he wants back but only to TFC. The league is a little tied because how do they say no to a former MVP that wants to return to his club. TFC then pays another minor fee...maybe another $50k.

    We end up with two top picks for minimal fake money. Just a crazy thought...

  9. #4569
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    I remember the "DeRo is back" nostalgia tour. I would welcome Seba back to retire here. I just don't see how the latter is going to be more effective then the former was during his last go around.

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    if he so badly wants to be in the club give him a shot at leading the next pro team...player-coach or player-assistant coach...

  11. #4571
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    Just watched some Venezuela highlights today and I just have to add. Iím glad Soteldo gone! Never liked his style of play. Constantly dribbling himself into a corner. whatís the point of fancy foot work if thereís no production afterwards.

  12. #4572
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocktml View Post
    Just watched some Venezuela highlights today and I just have to add. Iím glad Soteldo gone! Never liked his style of play. Constantly dribbling himself into a corner. whatís the point of fancy foot work if thereís no production afterwards.
    I thought that was just because he had no one to pass to, not because thatís actually how he plays.

  13. #4573
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    Just out of curiosity, does anyone know why Salcedo appears to be out of the Mexican national team picture? Donít think heís played in the last round of qualifying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Just out of curiosity, does anyone know why Salcedo appears to be out of the Mexican national team picture? Don’t think he’s played in the last round of qualifying.
    Apparently he got in a real dust-up with one of El Tri's assistant coaches, Jorge Theiler. It happened at last summer's Gold Cup. Seemingly happened at half-time of a game and there are claims of fisticuffs. So, Tata has banned him (Theiler is meant to be his top assistant). Salcedo has since apologized for his part in it, but the Mexican press doesn't think there's a way back in for him as long as Tata is in charge.

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    Salcedo looks like he's got his number - 3.

  16. #4576
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gogon View Post
    Apparently he got in a real dust-up with one of El Tri's assistant coaches, Jorge Theiler. It happened at last summer's Gold Cup. Seemingly happened at half-time of a game and there are claims of fisticuffs. So, Tata has banned him (Theiler is meant to be his top assistant). Salcedo has since apologized for his part in it, but the Mexican press doesn't think there's a way back in for him as long as Tata is in charge.
    Thanks. Hmm, hope thatís not a red flag.

  17. #4577
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    Tata was 5 minutes from getting canned yesterday. Seems to me Salcedo has an excellent shot at getting back in the picture soon.
    Last edited by ensco; 01-28-2022 at 11:22 PM.
    ďWhat the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.Ē

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Tata was 5 minutes from getting canned yesterday. Seems to me Salcedo has an excellent shot at getting back in the picture soon.
    Tata is walking the tight rope. I kinda wish we got to play them again just for the lols killing the coach and sending the el Tri fans off the ledge.

  19. #4579
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    Seba is signing with TFC the issue at the moment is the allocation process. Right TFC is third, Miami is signing Yedlin so they are out I donít know who the second team is, but they need to make a deal to sign him

  20. #4580
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoodson View Post
    Seba is signing with TFC the issue at the moment is the allocation process. Right TFC is third, Miami is signing Yedlin so they are out I don’t know who the second team is, but they need to make a deal to sign him
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/mls-allocation-process

    according to this website the team who is 2nd in ranking would be Cincy

  21. #4581
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoodson View Post
    Seba is signing with TFC the issue at the moment is the allocation process. Right TFC is third, Miami is signing Yedlin so they are out I don’t know who the second team is, but they need to make a deal to sign him



    Alright, that's enough now TheGoodson! Quit showing off and stop providing us with real information!

    Keep'Em Coming.
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 01-29-2022 at 03:37 AM.

  22. #4582
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gogon View Post
    Good points. I did a little digging. Gosh it's hard to find official information on MLS contract options. It does seem however, any option on Jozy is a team option, not a player option. And so it shouldn't impinge on any restructuring since it's not money Jozy is ever going to see under any scenario anyway. But then, there was an article in the Athletic last year that speculated Jozy may have a guaranteed payout if the team declined its option. If I understand correctly, this is commonplace in NBA and MLB contracts, whereby if a team declines its option the player receives $1m or $1.5m for their troubles. If Jozy has such a clause for even say $1m, then that would completely scuttle the back-of-envelope math I did, and make the whole restructuring scenario moot. And of course Jozy would be fully entitled to that payout as he signed that contract in good faith.
    Don't understand if his primary Contract Agent is GSE World, YMU Group or Manifesto Sport but...
    If GSE, clause would make sense given their American Football connect.
    Boy O boy, the irony... Manning does Seba and in turn Jozy learns and does Manning.
    I guess Manning had little choice at the time but...
    Talk about getting bent over on this if that nugget is accurate.
    Boxes of Cubans and cases of Aces to the Agent; Big Pimpin'.
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 01-29-2022 at 03:30 AM.

  23. #4583
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    This scenario kills two birds with one stone. You get rid of a DP that doesn't fit and you bring in a starting CB. Mistakes cost you and we are seeing the mistake of signing Soteldo being corrected.

    They signed a guy who culturally couldn't fit into the MLS, Canada and more specifically TFC. I don't blame him at all. I blame Curtis for selling the guy on a lie.

    My interpretation of the Soteldo story (Not fact, just opinion):

    His head is big from all of the love he gets in SA.(my wife's cousin lives down the street from Vila Belmiro and they know the FO very well - he got a lot of attention and football respect there)

    Then he comes here and he's literally nothing. He's a nobody in the city, the fans don't rate him, media doesn't care about him and he's come into a broken locker room/club. His family is far away and there isn't much of that South American Culture in the city for him to retreat to

    So he ain't happy at work or at home. And he's at an age where his generation posts their feelings through Insta and Insta stories. So go and look at his feed and see how much he yearns to go back to Brazil. (although his Insta stories were a lot more telling)

    So, I'm not sure when this happened, but some point he checks out - He doesn't give a shit and doesn't make the effort to even try and fit in with the team/club (if you have been in this situation you know how fucking awkward it is for everyone).

    He finds a couple guys in the club that understands the life he came from (Gallardo and some other random south American player) and then rides it out to the end of the season, making sure he looks good on the pitch so his value doesn't degrade. All the while his agent is letting FO know this isn't working out and something needs to be worked out.
    Great and plausible interpretation on what happened; squaring that Soteldo circle.
    I enjoy this space from possibility to probability; the inbetween.

  24. #4584
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Inbetween View Post
    Great and plausible interpretation on what happened; squaring that Soteldo circle.
    I enjoy this space from possibility to probability; the inbetween.
    All of that explanation may be possible, but another I wouldnít rule out (or in addition to that) is that Soteldo is a dick. He plays like one, so it wouldnít surprise me at all that he is one.

  25. #4585
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    All of that explanation may be possible, but another I wouldn’t rule out (or in addition to that) is that Soteldo is a dick. He plays like one, so it wouldn’t surprise me at all that he is one.
    Oh you are probably right also.
    Although it seems he wasn't enough of a dick to really stick it- hold fast- to us, too much, given the trade I guess.
    We will see with any follow-up details.
    Been having a bit of rethink about him.
    I enjoyed his dribbling and cutbacks, yet on second thought, as has been mentioned, it may have been one dimensional.
    IMO, as rocktml suggests, he did end up doing that quite a bit into no mans land on the left or eventually got teamed by 2-3.
    As yourself, I always thought it was a little about- skill wise- who was in the middle / striking that he had to offload to.
    IMO this is where Insigne is different, not as much a 'series' of cuts, more of that style to drive into the middle of the outside box or into it.
    More direct action.
    While it would be expected Soteldo would gel with Gallardo and the other? because both / all were Venezuelans?
    This may have been another internal red flag.
    Apart from the season, these players were not experiencing the best at / of TFC; their stories... added negativity?
    I still never saw Soteldo have any on pitch issues with other teammates. Coach yes; that's not uncommon.
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 01-29-2022 at 08:58 AM.

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    Soteldo is obviously a good dribbler, but I still say he has no passing vision which is why he ends up in cul de sacs all time. That kind of stuff is tolerable if he can score, but he also isnít a great goal scorer.

    Whether people liked him on or off the pitch I have no inside information. But where thereís smoke thereís often fire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Soteldo is obviously a good dribbler, but I still say he has no passing vision which is why he ends up in cul de sacs all time. That kind of stuff is tolerable if he can score, but he also isnít a great goal scorer.

    Whether people liked him on or off the pitch I have no inside information. But where thereís smoke thereís often fire.
    Remember when Manning told us all that before TFC make such a huge commitment in signing a player like Soltedo, they go through a long arduous process to make sure they are getting it right

  28. #4588
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Soteldo is obviously a good dribbler, but I still say he has no passing vision which is why he ends up in cul de sacs all time. That kind of stuff is tolerable if he can score, but he also isn’t a great goal scorer.

    Whether people liked him on or off the pitch I have no inside information. But where there’s smoke there’s often fire.
    Yes...
    While totally unfair... but fun. While context and circumstance are always apropo.
    I know everyone here can Moneyball any football situation into an argument-counterargument circle fest but...
    If Vazquez signed with LAG for around $500K and seems to have played in 28 matches, started in 21, scored 3 goals and had 6 assists...
    Soteldo played in 26 matches, scored 4 goals and had 10 assists.
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 01-29-2022 at 09:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Section 223 View Post
    Remember when Manning told us all that before TFC make such a huge commitment in signing a player like Soltedo, they go through a long arduous process to make sure they are getting it right
    Yep. It takes 2 weeks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Section 223 View Post
    Remember when Manning told us all that before TFC make such a huge commitment in signing a player like Soltedo, they go through a long arduous process to make sure they are getting it right
    Oh man he and Curtis must have spent six months spinning that story. It was their way of pinning vdW on Bez, and also trying to rework the story on the Gio/Pozo scramble into some kind of heroic, farsight laden narrative, I thought at the time.
    ďWhat the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.Ē

 

 

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