Thank you sweet baby Jesus!Originally Posted by MikeForbes
Thank you sweet baby Jesus!
It does feel like we need to let the facts settle out before going all Braveheart. We kinda sorta know most of this, but boy these details around when/whether he can be bought down really matter.
I would wager we lost money on the $6.5M we paid, but again, we don't know, we will see.
Salcedo is, uncontroversially, instantly one of the best 5 defenders in MLS.
Last edited by ensco; 01-28-2022 at 01:54 PM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
I don't have an issue with using a DP slot on a CB, although with that said, if we can make Salcedo not a DP, that's obviously preferable.
I've seen some people write that those slots should be for attacking players, but if we're leaking goals at the back, it doesn't matter. I'd rather win 2-1 than lose 4-3 because our defense is in shambles.
Mellberg was all set to be a Red until the league killed it. They simply did not see the point, value in paying a defender DP money at that time.
https://www.wakingthered.com/2012/8/...-mellberg-deal
Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!
I must confess, I’m a bit mystified at the lack of enthusiasm over Salcedo (the DP issue notwithstanding). I’m super-excited for this.
The moment he pulls on the shirt he is the best CB in MLS. I mean who is the best CB today? Walker Zimmerman would be the consensus pick. Who would I rather see organizing our backline this season? Carlos Salcedo, hands down. The guy has been a starter in Serie A, and in 2018 was nominated for the Budesliga Best XI while at Frankfurt (where he anchored their backline in the win over Bayern in the Pokal final). He played every minute at the 2018 WC where Mexico advanced from their group.
Personally I really like the sound of “best CB in MLS”. That to me is exactly the kind of team-building that gets me excited. If you look back over this board, our greatest hue and cry has always been about our CBs. CBs cost you games. One foot wrong by a CB is a goal against. It’s the most unforgiving position on the pitch.
The best teams in the world also have the best and most expensive CBs in the world. Man City (Dias €68m, Laporte €65m, Stones €56m), Liverpool (van Dijk €85m), Man U (Maguire €87m, questionable value admittedly), Bayern (Hernandez €80m), Juventus (de Ligt €86m), Arsenal (Ben White €59m ffs!!!!), Real Madrid (Militao €50m), and the list goes on and on. Top CBs have always commanded top transfer fees. And the top teams have a monopoly on them.
Now, on the sensitive matter of the DP slot:
Given MLSE's lack of any price sensitivity, I’ve got to believe if TFC were really signing a CB to an irrevocable DP deal, they would have aimed even higher (much higher) than Carlos Salcedo. MLSE easily has the wherewithal and demonstrably has the ambition. So I’ve got to believe Salcedo is coming on a deal that gives TFC some xAM flexibility if and when they need it. Maybe he arrives as a DP today, but I’ll bet anything his deal doesn’t hamstring our recruiting. If MLSE really wanted to burn a DP slot on a CB, you’d hear us mentioned in every rumour with Newcastle (which would be fun).
So, the best CB in MLS works for me.
(From an earlier post, my Paul Mariner scouting report - Tall, fast, very good in the air, tackles like Mavinga, positionally aware, in the right place, snuffs out attacks, two footed, can ping long balls with either foot - if I understand BB’s tactics, bypassing the midfield when we recover the ball is all part of it. A CB who hits balls like Liam Fraser fits pretty well.)
Ha!
... and his mother is Mrs. Manning's sister!
#$@!% me. Well stated. Hear, hear. TFC needs a bit of Catenaccio.
So "Will Forbes" (not his real name) has been dis-proven many times, most recently on Salcedo, can we stop quoting him? He's just as you said some dude in his mother's basement, posting guesses as to what will happen. He has no inside information.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 01-28-2022 at 03:16 PM.
Was going to write essentially the same thing!! If he is as good as he is supposed to be, worth the DP title on a CB if he can be the foundation we need at the back.
(Still doubt he actually turns out to be, will be a bought down TAM 100%)
Posting this guys tweets is just waste of time. A lot of boards basically say use common sense in deciding who to post. I agree even known media types can swing and miss on what they throw out there for our consumption but this is just crap, not even tap in worthy.
Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!
I just had a thought, but current MLSE thought on TFC is money is no object, correct? I'm assuming that the changes to the MLS collective agreement won't be regarding DP slots, but the with a serious upgrade to the salary cap that will make the requirement for DP slots moot. If MLS triples the Media contract, wouldn't they just triple the salary cap to $15 million per team? Each DP slot's maximum salary charge would change to $1.875 million (and the senior and reserve minimum salaries would probably increase to $150K and $100K respectively), but that would still leave a lot of cap space for quality players. The Owners should feel like they owe the players for the cuts they took during the COVID seasons, and that would bring back a lot of goodwill with the players.
As for the Jozy situation, I think a number of us have said we'd like to keep him around, but not at his current pay and taking up a DP slot. So.... is it possible under the rules to buy-out Jozy's contract (and DP slot), then turn around and offer him a minimum salary contract (or whatever they feel like) for 3 years?
No.
Under the rules, if TFC buys out Jozy, Jozy is a free agent. He can sign for the highest bidder, which won't be TFC. Besides, the relationship isn't salvageable at this point.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 01-28-2022 at 03:43 PM.
I have a question about how this could work in theory (I’m not suggesting this is the path the parties are going down, nor should go down).
Hypothetical scenario:
Jozy’s agent has found a team willing to pay him $500k per year on a 2 year deal.
Jozy asks TFC to buy out his remaining year at $3.6 million.
Therefore Jozy earns $4.6 million over the course of the next 24 months.
After which, Jozy retires from playing (assuming there is no other deal on the table for him in 2024).
What if…. TFC offered Jozy the same $500k per year for 2 years, but for years 2023 and 2024.
In other words, TFC agrees to pay Jozy $4.6 million over the next 36 months.
But the quid pro quo is, Jozy agrees to restructure his contract so he actually earns $1.533 million per season for the next three seasons.
Then TFC has him as a TAM player who can be bought down.
Obviously this frees up the DP slot on the roster.
If a DP striker is then brought in, Jozy no longer needs to play 80 percent of the minutes and bang in 18 to 20 goals. At a lower usage rate, he’d probably be effective anywhere he plays for the minutes he’s on the pitch.
Two questions:
1. Are such machinations even allowed under the byzantine MLS salary and roster rules?
2. Is there any chance such a scenario is being contemplated by either party?
Because the one part of the Jozy saga that isn’t passing the sniff-test for me is… why hasn’t the buyout happened? MLSE doesn’t need Jozy’s permission or approval. This is a situation where MLSE can act unilaterally. So why haven’t they? I don’t get it.
(Just to be clear, I’m not advocating for bringing Jozy back. But I sure did love watching him play when he was at peak Jozy.)
I know some of you only believe Neil.
Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/NeilMDavidson/status/1487171947356110848?s=20&t=3apuxen5DNLc6R25ngH4rg
I think that might work, though the MLS FO has to approve all contracts so reserve the right to torpedo anything they don't like. On yet another level it wouldn't be a good idea for TFC to throw good money after bad.
Okay firstly, he burned all his bridges here and that's done. But for fun lets look at this, to begin he has an option for 2023 already so you would have to trigger that before the signing so there's $7.2M and a wasted DP spot for 2 more years. Then you could add two years at $500K but why would we and even if we did, he would never accept it but it should be allowable under MLS rules.
I am thinking that the loss on the transfer fee is driving the need for DP role.... Let's say that this is a direct swap and Salcedo's market value is $3m there is still the $3.5m to be accounted for on the books. Some of that would have been depreciated over the 6 months or so he was with us but my theory is that we are going to have to write off what's left in 2022 and free up a DP spot in 2023.
Who knows what is going on behind the scenes but would be surprised if MLS is letting us off the hook with Salteldo....
Toronto 'til I die although still a Leeds fan at heart...
Do we have to buy out the option year? I find these option years confusing....
Oh I am not so sure about that Oldtimer. Agree to disagree with you on this aspect.
If the Giovinco/Manning relationship can be/seems to be salvaged/accommodated given how hard done by and cheated out of millions from him he felt.
The Altidore/Manning relationship has always been dysfunctional; a love/hate thing and a cakewalk.
Completely agree. While the Insigne signing is obviously the flashiest move this off-season, this one is actually 'the best,' in that we bring in a high-quality player in a position we desperately need and shed a player and salary that we didn't need.
It's really very astute.
Impossible to know. We are being spoon fed, worked, nobody really understands it yet. There is a fair bit of three card monte going on right now on this one.
Salcedo is a nice player.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
If we change out name to Los Toronto Galaxy FC, they'd gladly look the other way
Jozy burned his bridges with Chris Armas, not with TFC. (Apparently with some of the posters on this board, who continually blame him for his injury history - failing to acknowledge that Vanney said publicly in that Jozy showed up in camp in 2020 in fantastic shape or that he had a serious ankle problem that required surgery, that likely started when he played hurt and in doing so scored massive goals for us).
I know we have been asked not to debate Jozy on this thread but if people are allowed to unfairly slam him, those of us who see things differently are allowed to say so.
If they can restructure his contract to bring it below the TAM threshold, thereby responding to his injury history and age, it would make sense to me. However, the fact that he is not in camp means that there is something going on that isn't simply trying to transfer him or buy him out. If he was going to be transferred he would be training. i wonder if he isn't going to retire. Ankles are very tricky things.
Salcedo looks like an excellent acquisition. And much more BB style than bringing back Seba - substance, not romance. (and i am a romantic, its just that has the touch of MLSE not BB)
I don't know if it's people 'blaming' him for his injuries ... I mean, I personally don't think they're his fault. But I also think he should realize the writing is on the wall re: his career and he should've retired already.
As for certain of his off-field antics and stupid comments ... I blame him for that.
If Salcedo is one of DPs until Insigne arrives I’m good with that. If the reports are true that it’s longer, then this club has learned nothing. Many DPs all of the world that can shore of this defence on a 1.5 million salary . Signing Insigne and surrounding him with young kids or old journeymen is an absolute waste.
[moderator mode] Let's clarify things:
That we "shouldn't discuss Jozy in this thread" hasn't been asked by the RPB leadership or by the moderator team, but by some board members who don't want this thread dominated by Jozy talk (a reasonable request). However it's also perfectly reasonable to discuss things like the cap space, DP status, possible trades etc. of Jozy in this thread. It's allowed. Of course you can also discuss them in the Jozy thread because we have threads on our designated players that can cover everything to do about them, including their cap space, DP status, possible trades etc.
If you want to discuss Jozy's attitude, his "legend" status, whether he will ever play on the USMNT again or other non-roster related Jozy things that would be better discussed in the Jozy thread because it's off-topic to the roster discussion. [/moderator mode]
Last edited by Oldtimer; 01-28-2022 at 06:07 PM.
Perfect. Great guidance. Thank you
Fair enough and volunteers like you keep this going, which is appreciated and I respect. I won’t bite again but just so you understand, this post was today and getting repeated, so that’s what I was reacting to:
“Okay firstly, he burned all his bridges here and that's done.”
It is a matter of public record that Seba went after TFC and Manning after he left, on the record, and said some pretty interesting things very recently that could easily be perceived as unhelpful to TFC's interest... and yet, here he is.
Nobody knows nothin' about where Jozy's head, Manning's head, or anybody else's head, for that matter, really is.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
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