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  1. #3511
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    Something we do know: what Vanney said about him in 2020 at training camp:

    Of note, the Reds’ head coach was particularly keen on Jozy Altidore coming into training camp in great shape after struggling with injuries in past offseasons.

    “His fitness always plays a big role just because he’s such a unique player in his strength, his size, and his soccer capabilities...,” said Vanney. “For Jozy, he’s come in and he looks different than he did last year. He looks slim. As a starting point, he looks fit and ready to go.
    “I think he did a great job, whatever he did in the offseason, he looks fantastic, and we’ll try to build off of that.” (source: https://www.wakingthered.com/2020/1/...mp-says-vanney)
    And then he went out and got injured again and rented a helicopter to fly him and his finace to New York while we were playing a match in Hartford. Our DP & Leader.

  2. #3512
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    And then he went out and got injured again and rented a helicopter to fly him and his finace to New York while we were playing a match in Hartford. Our DP & Leader.
    Do you have a link to this? I remember a couple of guys here getting hot and bothered when he was spotted at the US Open but..

    It's not exactly obvious that him missing games while injured would be a problem. If he discussed with team, no problem. Did someone say it was?
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  3. #3513
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    It is very hard to find a striker who can really score, consistently. They are clearly there - Bradley Wright Phillips is a great example of a diamond in the rough - but its not easy to find ones you can be sure about. At the time, we took a bit of a flier on Jozy given his scoring record at Sunderland and it worked out incredible; part of that was we had two strikers with him and Seba who complimented each other very well; part of that was Jozy's history in other leagues; part of that was luck. Danny K and DeRo are really the only others that we have had and if you think of some who have come through our roster - Robbie Earnshaw comes to mind - decent track record before TFC but here, nowhere near the level of a Jozy DeRo or BWP as a threat, game in game out. And it is not just us. Look at Newcastle! All the money in the world, literally, and they get Chris Wood - an honest player who chips in now and then but no Ibra.
    I think you can sort of bucket different types of useful strikers in this league:

    Prolific guys like Robbie Keane or Giovinco who can turn a game single handed.

    Poachers or guys who live off service like BWP or Kamara. More interchangeable and dependent on who is getting them the ball.

    Based on his track record at LAFC I feel like BB is comfortable fielding the latter and having al the big money signings as support strikers / wingers / AM’s. But maybe that’s reading into things too much…

  4. #3514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    If Soteldo ends up being dealt which frees up a DP slot AND if TFC don't sign a further DP (say they sign a TAM striker instead) I can see various scenarios where Jozy is kept on the books for his final year.
    We're assuming that because he is unlikely to be worth his full wages that the best option is buying him out, but that's not necessarily so. He looked a lot better near the end of last season, and if we can't get a replacement until mid summer and if he can score at a level approaching his cap hit (even if not his full salary), it might be better to have his services so TFC aren't in a big hole points wise mid season than to pay him out (if for example the DP slot he sits in isn't needed immediately).
    So are you suggesting that they keep Altidore through to the opening of the summer transfer window, and then release him at that point (buy him out)?

    Because the team wouldn't get cap relief in that case. Plus its also been speculated that the team also wouldn't get its DP slot back for the season.

    So keeping Altidore only until mid-season won't work, especially if they intend on bringing on a third DP in the secondary transfer window.

    Further, Altidore also did not play a role in the final of the Canadian championship. Read into what you will on that.

  5. #3515
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    Beyond everything said here about Altidore one important fact is missing; does he want to be here? I don't mean stay here and get paid, I mean really 'be here' for the team? I don't think he really does and Bradley didn't seem to either.

  6. #3516
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    to me its simple,if the team have plans for jozy,he will be at the medicals tomorrow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Beyond everything said here about Altidore one important fact is missing; does he want to be here? I don't mean stay here and get paid, I mean really 'be here' for the team? I don't think he really does and Bradley didn't seem to either.
    I think this is true.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  8. #3518
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    Ayo had been added back to the roster page on the TFC website. Guess something is coming on his front.

    https://www.torontofc.ca/roster/

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I think you can sort of bucket different types of useful strikers in this league:

    Prolific guys like Robbie Keane or Giovinco who can turn a game single handed.

    Poachers or guys who live off service like BWP or Kamara. More interchangeable and dependent on who is getting them the ball.

    Based on his track record at LAFC I feel like BB is comfortable fielding the latter and having al the big money signings as support strikers / wingers / AM’s. But maybe that’s reading into things too much…
    A big complaint among LAFC supporters was that the team never brought in a DP striker to play with Rossi and Vela and decided to mix and match at the position. Hard to say who's decision that was though.

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    hes been there for a while...gavran and walkes are there also and there are six players in slots 25-28 so thats not exactly the current roster situation

  11. #3521
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    Quote Originally Posted by spe18 View Post
    So are you suggesting that they keep Altidore through to the opening of the summer transfer window, and then release him at that point (buy him out)?

    Because the team wouldn't get cap relief in that case. Plus its also been speculated that the team also wouldn't get its DP slot back for the season.

    So keeping Altidore only until mid-season won't work, especially if they intend on bringing on a third DP in the secondary transfer window.

    Further, Altidore also did not play a role in the final of the Canadian championship. Read into what you will on that.
    I'm not suggesting that they do that at all. I prefer a new player.

    I'm saying that I could see a scenario where they decide to keep him for his final year (not buy him out at all). This is not the most likely scenario, but they might be keeping it open (which is one possible reason that they didn't announce the buyout).


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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    A big complaint among LAFC supporters was that the team never brought in a DP striker to play with Rossi and Vela and decided to mix and match at the position. Hard to say who's decision that was though.
    Also is it even an issue? They were scoring buckets of goals set up that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Also is it even an issue? They were scoring buckets of goals set up that way.
    No idea. LAFC is a super spoiled fanbase who expect everything to be perfect from what I have seen. Same with Atlanta.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    No idea. LAFC is a super spoiled fanbase who expect everything to be perfect from what I have seen. Same with Atlanta.
    So true!

    Personally, while not being overly excited/inspired about Bob Bradley being hired at first, I am now just glad we have someone extremely experienced here to make a team out of all these parts we're bringing in. That's going to be a real challenge. Definitely not the time to take a risk on an inexperienced coach.

  15. #3525
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    A big complaint among LAFC supporters was that the team never brought in a DP striker to play with Rossi and Vela and decided to mix and match at the position. Hard to say who's decision that was though.
    What really set them back was Zimmerman leaving and not having a suitable replacement, IMO.

    They had one year where they **probably** should have won everything but got stonewalled in the playoffs against one of those teams that always bunker when outmatched. That’s when a true target man is worth his weight in gold.

  16. #3526
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I think you can sort of bucket different types of useful strikers in this league:

    Prolific guys like Robbie Keane or Giovinco who can turn a game single handed.

    Poachers or guys who live off service like BWP or Kamara. More interchangeable and dependent on who is getting them the ball.

    Based on his track record at LAFC I feel like BB is comfortable fielding the latter and having al the big money signings as support strikers / wingers / AM’s. But maybe that’s reading into things too much…
    He had a string of excellent, consistent forwards who scored regularly. He had, in their second season, five forwards of starting quality in this league including Christian Ramirez, Diego Rossi, Brian Rodriguez, Carlos Vela and Adama Diomande, all guys who could score 10 a season in MLS. Admittedly, the wingers were stronger than the strikers, but the strikers weren't exactly chicken feed.

    I suspect from the DIomande signing and how beloved he is at Staebek that he has good Scandinavian contacts and probably good Egpytian contacts too (another league that produces some real gems).

    I think we'll see a dangerous forward signed before the season starts, someone they can get on Scandi or African-level transfer fees that has a deal ending this year and therefore is a last-minute profit motivator for the selling club.

    It'll have to be a power forward, someone good in the air and with feet, as they need him scoring before Insigne arrives but also as a solid target for wide playermakers. Both Ramirez (less so) and Diomande (very much so) fit that mold.

    From the number of South Americans they brought in, we might see a right-sided wide player, too.
    Last edited by jloome; 01-14-2022 at 03:29 PM.

  17. #3527
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I think this is true.
    I don't. I think he's a complicated individual and sometimes guys like that morph into square pegs in round holes.

    I have never doubted Michael Bradley's commitment to being here; the man gave up $10M in guaranteed compensation to make TFC more competitive. I don't know how much more committed he could be. Buy part of the team?

    My gut, which is probably wrong, says I would like Jozy to finish his last unoptioned year with us and then be released as a guy who helped us win a title and almost another. He clearly can't stay fit enough to be a starter.

    If, however, he is a cancer in the locker room or a constant distraction because of being outspoken, they have to release him.

    Here's the rub: WE HAVE NO IDEA if that's true. We suspect it, because of the general pessimism that pervaded the roster over the last three seasons. But it's equally possible that we have multiple guys who've lost sight of what it means to think for the team and not themselves.

    I've seen Mark Delgado bitch more on the field than anyone, and his play has degraded drastically over the last two years. But nobody's calling him a cancer because he's fit and plays most games.

    We have zero specific knowledge of ANY bustups other than Altidore insulting Chris Armas over his decision to use one striker. That's it, basically.

    Bradley referring to Altidore as being not fit could have quite specifically been referring to repeated injuries, not general conditioning. Again, if the personal narrative someone has decided on is that he's a troublemaking jerk with glass feet, then they're going to assume it's the latter. If they seem him as a club hero from our best years, they might well assume the former.

    But we don't know.

    The one point in this thread I'll contend is that he was EVER a mediocre striker by MLS standards. Jesus H, the guy scored 39 goals in two seasons in the Eredivisie while fans screamed "monkey" at him and threw bananas on the pitch. And he refused to even engage them; he showed utter class. He has 62 goals for us in 139 appearances.

    And he DOES have a history of coming back from injury. He was out for most of 2018 and only scored seven in 13, but then had 11 in 22 appearances the following year.

    So he's basically a consistent 1-in-2 striker, which is top tier in any league.

    If he stayed and there was no sign of locker room issues, even as a backup, I'd be perfectly happy with that. Treat our biggest players right at the end of their careers and more of them will want to stay, rather than go to Saudi or China. It may not be the best for business, but it is good for a club, and its reputation as a club, to honor its heroes. Football is about the culture more than it is about winning, always has been, and so it should stay.

  18. #3528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I still say he was good and had potential to improve but we probably didn't have a a good GK coach to improve him. His play declined just like Westberg's has and Irwin's did. There is a chance he could improve with a really good GK coach. Hopefully we get one.
    I dunno. Bono doesn't seem to have a high IQ for the position. He has no sense of where he is in goal. His distribution is horrible. His decision making overall is just bad. A lot of this stuff he should know by now.

  19. #3529
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    About Jozy’s fitness I don’t think we have any real evidence except that he has had a fairly long history of injury (which he has at times bounced back from or played through), and has indeed an unusual body (which is also why he’s an unusual player).

    We can expect that he has had different approaches to his fitness based on or influenced by what the general idea of getting fit was at the time and whatever specific advice he has had from his (club or private) medical staff. Now bulk up, now slim down, etc. And we know that on occasion the general consensus, as well as individual fitness expert, can be wrong, or at least not always the best.

    About Jozy wanting or not wanting to be here and when, we don’t know anything much for certain. It did seem as though he was fit and sat out one match in sympathy with BLM. And for a time afterwards seemed distracted by the possible involvement in buying Colorado when the league was forcing the sale of the club because the owner was a racist. He did say in an interview (on TSN, I remember) before Giovinco left that he ‘just knew’ that the club wasn’t interested him having him back/meeting his salary demands. But then they did and seemed to put that aside.

    He clearly objected to Armas’ approach and the club banned him from training with the team. That’s got to be deadly for the attitude when you’ve had substantial fitness issues. I’m assuming Bob Bradley is referring to that stuff. But it doesn’t mean he couldn’t be suitably into it if things were being run well.

  20. #3530
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    RSL not Colorado

  21. #3531
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    He had a string of excellent, consistent forwards who scored regularly. He had, in their second season, five forwards of starting quality in this league including Christian Ramirez, Diego Rossi, Brian Rodriguez, Carlos Vela and Adama Diomande, all guys who could score 10 a season in MLS. Admittedly, the wingers were stronger than the strikers, but the strikers weren't exactly chicken feed.

    I suspect from the DIomande signing and how beloved he is at Staebek that he has good Scandinavian contacts and probably good Egpytian contacts too (another league that produces some real gems).

    I think we'll see a dangerous forward signed before the season starts, someone they can get on Scandi or African-level transfer fees that has a deal ending this year and therefore is a last-minute profit motivator for the selling club.

    It'll have to be a power forward, someone good in the air and with feet, as they need him scoring before Insigne arrives but also as a solid target for wide playermakers. Both Ramirez (less so) and Diomande (very much so) fit that mold.

    From the number of South Americans they brought in, we might see a right-sided wide player, too.
    Forgive my lack of lack of articulation in the original post. What I mean is really spending less on out-and-out strikers vs. other attacking players who might be forwards or attacking mids.

    DIomandeand was great. Others were good. But I guess my point would be they are not on the same money they paid Rossi or Vela.

  22. #3532
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    Anyone who can’t appreciate what Altidore has done for this club can go rub salt. People with the memory of a goldfish are bashing him.

    I originally took BB’s comments about his lack of drive for the club based on his exile. I am not sure why anyone can’t see how the club needs to earn his trust back just as much as the other way around.

    Imagine you know you are a driving force behind your teams work at your job. Some new person comes in to oversee you, you know they have no idea what they are doing as they rejig your whole teams work. Because you bring it up and critique it, you get put on administrative leave. Then your company nose dives in performance, finally fires the leader who forced you out and says “what the hell, you aren’t happy and excited to get back to work!?”

    I honestly would have far less candor than Jozy does at the moment!

  23. #3533
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amir. View Post
    RSL not Colorado
    Yes, thanks. Not at all Colorado!

  24. #3534
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    I don't. I think he's a complicated individual and sometimes guys like that morph into square pegs in round holes.

    I have never doubted Michael Bradley's commitment to being here; the man gave up $10M in guaranteed compensation to make TFC more competitive. I don't know how much more committed he could be. Buy part of the team?

    My gut, which is probably wrong, says I would like Jozy to finish his last unoptioned year with us and then be released as a guy who helped us win a title and almost another. He clearly can't stay fit enough to be a starter.

    If, however, he is a cancer in the locker room or a constant distraction because of being outspoken, they have to release him.

    Here's the rub: WE HAVE NO IDEA if that's true. We suspect it, because of the general pessimism that pervaded the roster over the last three seasons. But it's equally possible that we have multiple guys who've lost sight of what it means to think for the team and not themselves.

    I've seen Mark Delgado bitch more on the field than anyone, and his play has degraded drastically over the last two years. But nobody's calling him a cancer because he's fit and plays most games.

    We have zero specific knowledge of ANY bustups other than Altidore insulting Chris Armas over his decision to use one striker. That's it, basically.

    Bradley referring to Altidore as being not fit could have quite specifically been referring to repeated injuries, not general conditioning. Again, if the personal narrative someone has decided on is that he's a troublemaking jerk with glass feet, then they're going to assume it's the latter. If they seem him as a club hero from our best years, they might well assume the former.

    But we don't know.

    The one point in this thread I'll contend is that he was EVER a mediocre striker by MLS standards. Jesus H, the guy scored 39 goals in two seasons in the Eredivisie while fans screamed "monkey" at him and threw bananas on the pitch. And he refused to even engage them; he showed utter class. He has 62 goals for us in 139 appearances.

    And he DOES have a history of coming back from injury. He was out for most of 2018 and only scored seven in 13, but then had 11 in 22 appearances the following year.

    So he's basically a consistent 1-in-2 striker, which is top tier in any league.

    If he stayed and there was no sign of locker room issues, even as a backup, I'd be perfectly happy with that. Treat our biggest players right at the end of their careers and more of them will want to stay, rather than go to Saudi or China. It may not be the best for business, but it is good for a club, and its reputation as a club, to honor its heroes. Football is about the culture more than it is about winning, always has been, and so it should stay.
    Agreed, and well said.

    As others have alluded to though, I think the decision has already been made by the FO to buy him out prior to the start of the season if there are no takers.

  25. #3535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrillos View Post

    I originally took BB’s comments about his lack of drive for the club based on his exile. I am not sure why anyone can’t see how the club needs to earn his trust back just as much as the other way around.
    Yeah, agreed.

    I have a lot of respect for both Bradleys and a lot of optimism about him as our manager. But they have a blind spot with Armas, who is like a son to Bob and a brother to Michael. He clearly was a terrible, terrible trainer and continues to be. At all three management jobs, he's left squads behind that are unable to understand what he wants them to do.

    I can see them taking Armas' side in this and seeing Jozy as the villain, but the fact is that he is outspoken and Armas was clearing running the club into the ground. Perhaps even then the way he went about it was something to disapprove of, I can see that side. But that whole incident was hardly evidence he's a locker-room problem.

    I still remember him encouraging JMR on the field last year, talking him up between plays, same with Okello. That's not a guy who doesn't care about anyone but himself.

    Even if Jozy is deluded about his physical capabilities at this point, and does end up going, it doesn't put truth to the notion that he's a "problem." Let's keep in mind he played for Ali Curtis, and that would probably make most people outspoken and irritated, a sign that they care.
    Last edited by jloome; 01-14-2022 at 05:35 PM.

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    I think that's the issue - that he doesn't realize he's done. His body has just let him down, and he needs to realize it.

    I've been contending for a couple years now that he should just retire. It would be the best thing for him and the team. He could've gone out 2 years ago on a high, stuck around with the club in some capacity, and there wouldn't have been any animosity.

    But now we have this situation, which is just shitty on all fronts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Let's keep in mind he played for Ali Curtis, and that would probably make most people outspoken and irritated, a sign that they care.
    This! So true.

    I really hope the point about Armas and loyalty with the Bradley’s isn’t coming into play. I feel like they are both pretty reasonable to be able to keep these relationships from coming to an impasse.

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    Salcedo will be a Designated Player according to the Athletic. Truly a disappointing move in my opinion when we desperately need a DP striker.

    https://theathletic.com/3071481/2022...-mls-notebook/

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    Stejskal of The Athletic reporting that we are very close to a straight Soteldo for Salcedo swap, with no transfer fees involved, and that Salcedo would be a DP.

    Also says we are working to offload Jozy and have made him multiple buyout offers that he has not taken because they have all been less than what he is owed on his deal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC/Everton View Post
    Salcedo will be a Designated Player according to the Athletic. Truly a disappointing move in my opinion when we desperately need a DP striker.

    https://theathletic.com/3071481/2022...-mls-notebook/
    What is interesting from the article is the Jozy Altidore is holding out for a buyout of the entire amount due to him.

 

 

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