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  1. #301
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    Gotta compete with the Saudi money - both @ Newcastle & their domestic leagues.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    It isn't my money. Or your money. It counts the same against the cap as someone who makes 3 million. Why does it matter if he isn't worth 10 million a year?
    It will likely never happen with this bunch on MLSE, but I do wish TFC could be more efficient with their money. Many other MLS teams do more with less. RE "It isn't my money" I'm not so sure, especially with regards to DP salaries which are directly played by the club (for amounts above the max cap hit). I believe the crazy salaries we have paid do put pressure on our ticket prices. Or at least TFC has used their spending to justify their prices. I'm not sure if it's still the case, "year 1" prices a number of years ago did reset things, but TFC tickets were often among the most expensive in the league. Unless you find a DP that sells a ton of jerseys, but that's hardly been the case for TFC.

  3. #303
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    I would keep 13 of them

    Pozuelo (if he wants it)
    Osorio
    Shaff
    Priso
    Laryea
    Achara
    Okello
    JMR
    Nelsen
    Singh
    Lawrence
    Delgado
    Perruzza


    Fire the rest of them into the sun & lets start over

    Yes, that includes Bradley - not going to happen but its time


    ***********

    My concern is the "we have to compete for trophies every year" mindset is going to mean some deadwood sticks around
    Last edited by OgtheDim; 11-21-2021 at 03:19 PM.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    I would keep 13 of them

    Pozuelo (if he wants it)
    Osorio
    Shaff
    Priso
    Laryea
    Achara
    Okello
    JMR
    Nelsen
    Singh
    Lawrence
    Delgado
    Perruzza


    Fire the rest of them into the sun & lets start over

    Yes, that includes Bradley - not going to happen but its time
    We should keep Auro - should keep him anyways but especially considering it's possible Laryea is sold. I'm not against Mavinga returning either, one off year doesn't mean he's cooked.

    On the flip side, they're bit players so not a huge deal either way, but I'm not overly fond of Nelsen or Achara. The former has never shown anything and Achara unfortunately lost something after his knee injury.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    I would keep 13 of them

    Pozuelo (if he wants it)
    Osorio
    Shaff
    Priso
    Laryea
    Achara
    Okello
    JMR
    Nelsen
    Singh
    Lawrence
    Delgado
    Perruzza


    Fire the rest of them into the sun & lets start over

    Yes, that includes Bradley - not going to happen but its time


    ***********

    My concern is the "we have to compete for trophies every year" mindset is going to mean some deadwood sticks around
    I’d keep Dunn instead of Singh but otherwise fully agree

  6. #306
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    Don't worry guys. They'll just bring back Seba and that will solve all problems.

  7. #307
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    I bet they announce Bob Bradley relatively soon to try and deflect from this game.

  8. #308
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    whenever osorios contract ends he should only be back for way less...doesnt bring enough for the money hes getting

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    Don't worry guys. They'll just bring back Seba and that will solve all problems.

    I loved 2017

    Went to the final with my daughter & its one of the best sporting memories I will ever have.

    &

    2017 is a memory, not a roadmap

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    I loved 2017

    Went to the final with my daughter & its one of the best sporting memories I will ever have.

    &

    2017 is a memory, not a roadmap
    We just gotta hope the front office see's it this way and attempts to rebuild this team instead of just cashing in on nostalgia.

    We will and never should forget 2017, but the future is always more important than the past.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amir. View Post
    whenever osorios contract ends he should only be back for way less...doesnt bring enough for the money hes getting
    He has a club option this offseason

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    good, if its at the same or higher salary it should be declined and they should negotiate something lower

  13. #313
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    On the long list of problems with this team, paying Oso too much in an option year is way down there.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amir. View Post
    good, if its at the same or higher salary it should be declined and they should negotiate something lower
    I don't think I could possibly disagree with a player assessment more. He's forced to play sometimes four or five positions a season and he's still a decent linkup guy. He led us in scoring this season albeit only with four goals, and if we played a disciplined tactical set would be one of our most valuable players.

  16. #316
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    decent linkup guy is far from 875k

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    I don't think I could possibly disagree with a player assessment more. He's forced to play sometimes four or five positions a season and he's still a decent linkup guy. He led us in scoring this season albeit only with four goals, and if we played a disciplined tactical set would be one of our most valuable players.
    I really think Osorio needs a reset. Maybe a new coach can do it, I don't know. Maybe it's all due to the apparent problems between players & big personalities on TFC, lack of quality strikers, and general team disfunction including tactics. But Osorio's constant snarl and other issues are a big detriment to the role he was expected to play, especially when Pozuelo was out injured for longer. I mean, Osorio only had two assists all season!!! So many times he would overthink things and completely scuff key passes that should have led to goal-scoring opportunities. I think Osorio has the skills, but something is holding him back mentally. Can Bob Bradley turn him around? Herdman seems to get more out of him, although not every game either.

    I also agree with Ogthedim, that Michael Bradley's role with the club should be seriously reconsidered as part of a reset. But it won't, especially if Bob Bradley is coming in.

    It's been a long time that I felt so bleak about the club. Not only did this season suck really badly, it seems Manning and Curtis will be back. And we're weighed down by a couple of awful contracts. Maybe we'll hear something more inspiring in post-season interviews. But Curtis' recent interview was vomit-inducing, and does not leave me with any hope for next season if he is still around.

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amir. View Post
    whenever osorios contract ends he should only be back for way less...doesnt bring enough for the money hes getting
    We must be watching different players. He was our leading scorer for most of the season. Plus he isnt on that much money. Here are some players he has contributed far more than this season who make double or more than his salary:

    Gonzalez
    Bradley
    Altidore
    Pozuelo
    Soteldo

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    I don't think I could possibly disagree with a player assessment more. He's forced to play sometimes four or five positions a season and he's still a decent linkup guy. He led us in scoring this season albeit only with four goals, and if we played a disciplined tactical set would be one of our most valuable players.
    Totally agree. There is a small subset of posters on this board who have always had it in for Oso. Ive never understood the hate: hes an excellent MLS player and part of the solution, not the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    I really think Osorio needs a reset. Maybe a new coach can do it, I don't know. Maybe it's all due to the apparent problems between players & big personalities on TFC, lack of quality strikers, and general team disfunction including tactics. But Osorio's constant snarl and other issues are a big detriment to the role he was expected to play, especially when Pozuelo was out injured for longer. I mean, Osorio only had two assists all season!!! So many times he would overthink things and completely scuff key passes that should have led to goal-scoring opportunities. I think Osorio has the skills, but something is holding him back mentally. Can Bob Bradley turn him around? Herdman seems to get more out of him, although not every game either.

    I also agree with Ogthedim, that Michael Bradley's role with the club should be seriously reconsidered as part of a reset. But it won't, especially if Bob Bradley is coming in.

    It's been a long time that I felt so bleak about the club. Not only did this season suck really badly, it seems Manning and Curtis will be back. And we're weighed down by a couple of awful contracts. Maybe we'll hear something more inspiring in post-season interviews. But Curtis' recent interview was vomit-inducing, and does not leave me with any hope for next season if he is still around.
    I dont agree with Oso and I think its not a fair view of his seasons work. BUT

    Totally agree with this:

    Curtis' recent interview was vomit-inducing, and does not leave me with any hope for next season if he is still around

  21. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    Meanwhile Montreal only has one DP (you could argue that he doesn't play like one as well) and they just barely missed out on playoffs and completely outplayed us in the final.

  22. #322
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    Yeah I feel a bit bad for Perez but that's not a good quote either. Not sure what they're all smoking in the coaching & management circles.

  23. #323
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    Ok, I've missed quite a few games in the last half of the season and a lot of discussion and behind-the-scenes news so I may be missing some info, but here's my take on the season starting with grades for the squad:

    Morrow (C+) A class act as always. Should arguably have played more
    Zavaleta (F) He is who he is. At least we're only paying him league minimum to defend like this now
    Bradley (D+) I think he's still good enough to be a contributor and even starter, but he hasn't been a play-every-game guy for a long time now. Hopefully this season is the start of him actually accepting that.
    Dunn (D-) Probably harsh since he's been injured all year, but (despite being poor today) our only young CB who seems like he can contribute at this level. Deserves at least a look next year even though I don't think he'll ever be a regular starter
    Dwyer (0) One of many who I've given a score below F. Utterly fucking useless
    Marshall-Rutty (D+) He was considered the best player his age in North America just 2 years ago, and while I don't think he's quite that good, you can see glimpses of his talent and game sense. Needs to be much braver with the ball next year
    Delgado (F) By far his worst season for us - in previous years he'd make up for his deficiencies on the ball with his defending and ground-covering but he even struggled with that at times this season. I'm certainly not against keeping him but Priso's emergence means for the first time since 2016 we can afford to trade Mark(y) away
    Gallardo (0) Wait, why is he still here?
    Pozuelo (F) Playing like 100 games in 2 years caught up to him this season and even when he was healthy he was rarely at his best. It may be the best to move on from him, sadly, as I have a feeling his prime abruptly ended at the end of 2020
    Nelson (F) Still a one-dimensional dribbler with limited end product and almost non-existent game sense. Is it realistic to expect a kid who hasn't improved in 2 years to ever grow into an MLS-level player?
    Mullinho (D+) He's obviously really limited but he'll at least compete and be somewhat of a goal threat
    Okello (D) I actually thought he improved a lot in the last 2 months of the year. I thought his defensive awareness and effort were shocking in some of our earlier games but he hasn't been that kind of liability more recently and he's obviously got game with the ball. He's already 21 though so he'll need to keep improving fast
    Westberg (D-) As much as I think he ultimately showed he's our best keeper currently, he also showed why Bono got the not so often - definitely another player who's past his best
    Altidore (0) Time to go. In typical Jozy fashion, he at least saved one of his few bright moments for ruining Montreal's season
    DeLeon (0) He's inevitably going to miss games due to his disdain for public health measures and he's really not good enough any more (or ever) to justify that
    Akinola (C-) Despite his early season struggles, he was scoring and rounding into form before the Gold Cup injury. Clearly our main #9 going forward
    Osorio (C+) He had his struggles but at this point he's our best midfielder, and one of the most well-rounded players in MLS (he even added through-balls to his game this year!)
    Laryea (B-) Wasn't at his best for TFC, but like Osorio, his performances with the MNT show his quality. He's still one of the league's best fullbacks and one of our most consistent attacking threats
    Mavinga (D) Wasn't that bad tbh - he was always going to get burned due to having to put out so many fires and covering defensive chasms as our only halfway competent CB. Might be a decent time to move him though - it's a major risk to keep a 30-year-old CB around who still relies so much on speed
    Shaffelburg (A-) Pretty obviously the player of the season and a game-changer in that he's actually quick and direct in a team where most of the players are the opposite
    Bono (F) Still a pure shot-stopper with awful distribution and organization and it doesn't look like he'll improve. We need a new #1 keeper next year
    Singh (F) May be harsh, but I really don't see much potential in a CB who can't even defend in USL-1
    Soteldo (D-) His G/A numbers were actually very good and the talent is obvious, but even though he's 23 and still developing, you expect better decision-making from a DP. Couple that with the murmurs of being a negative influence behind the scenes (not an enormous surprise from a guy who throws a full-on tantrum every time he deservedly gets subbed off) and it gets tougher and tougher to justify bringing him back
    Endoh (D+) Meh, does he still take an international spot? If not, he's a useful guy to keep around for a few hundred minutes
    Gonzalez (0) He's done. Like as a professional athlete. Somehow being one of our best attacking threats really doesn't make up for having one of the worst individual seasons I've ever seen defensively in MLS as TFC's main job each game became about covering for OG
    Perruzza (D+) Solid in limited minutes (should have been on at half time today). Deserves more chances next year because he's proven he can score
    Silva (F) A USL-level player brought in as a third keeper. If you can't play a single minute ahead of Bono and 2021 Westberg, you can't be any good
    Lawrence (C) Solid contributor at LB and CB, where he looked like a more level-headed Mavinga. Maybe he's actually part of the answer there next year
    Auro (D+) He's not game-breaking but he's a solid enough fullback who can give you starter minutes and if Lawrence stays at CB then we'll need him next year
    Priso (C+) Really too bad he got injured. One of the trio of academy graduates alongside Shaff and Ayo who's actually well-rounded and mature enough to be a dependable starter (or at least regular in the 18) and not just a prospect. Offers some of the same things as Delgado but is a much better footballer. The fact he almost never went 90 minutes is a major concern though
    Achara (C) Another pleasant surprise, still raw but always useful. I don't think his ceiling is high, but he should absolutely be kept around
    Romeo (N/A) Permanently on loan and never convinced as a starter anywhere he's been, and he hasn't been playing in exactly top-level leagues. I don't see a future in MLS for him
    Fraser (N/A) I think it's best for everyone if he stays in Columbus, I don't think he fits well into our squad and he's playing well there

    Perez (F) Had the team playing decent at the beginning and end of his reign with a style that actually suited us, but the middle was just as about as bad as the Armas days and while a lot of that was the squad's shortcomings being impossible to compensate for, quite a bit was self-inflicted. Most damning is his substitution patterns where he would often barely change anything and still seemed to think we were only allowed 3 changes. Just today he had two very obvious half-time subs to make: Dunn for Morrow and a switch to a back 4, and Dwyer for Perruzza (or Dwyer for anyone, really), and he instead kept bunkering until he had no choice. Probably one of the better non-Vanney coaches in TFC's history, but not good enough for us going forward
    Armas (0) He's actually not the worst coach in MLS history. But he's probably the single worst coaching hire in MLS history
    Curtis (0) Any benefit of the doubt I've given him before 2021 is gone. All the poor signings and roster decisions he's made have come back to bite us this year as our aging DP's and TAM players have fallen off a cliff, but the decision to hire Armas and the inability to find ANY physio for the entire off-season are inexcusable, fireable offences on their own. Priority #1 right now is Curtis out
    Manning (0) I'll give him some slack since his Argo duties means he's basically working two jobs (which I think a lot of people forget) but he arguably deserves just as much of the blame as Curtis for hiring Armas and not hiring a physio, and some extra blame just for trusting Curtis this long. He needs to prove he can actually rebuild a team and front office, and while I don't find it easy to trust him, he has shown if he gets the right people he'll let them do their job (Lagerwey/Kreis, Bez/Vanney). I have extra concerns with him which I'll detail below, but I don't think MLSE is going to get rid of both him and Ali, so like it or not Bill should be the one to stay
    Medical staff (0) We need multiple replacements here, because our struggles with muscle injuries have been going on for more than just a year. Something has to give.

    Our priorities for the off-season:

    #1 Get Curtis out and hire a real GM
    #2 Hire a real coach. Bob Bradley would be fine, as long as he can tell his kid to sit sometimes. And while I think they should have a GM who would concentrate on the salary cap like Bez did, Bob should have some involvement in building the team too (just not as much as he did in LA)

    #3 At least one starting-quality CB. Such a glaring and obvious roster hole to patch, it's more important than any other player-related move we make, even the DP's
    #4 Figure out who our DP's are. Jozy out should be a no-brainer, and probably one of either Pozuelo or Soteldo will leave too. Whichever one of those two we keep we need to actually build around and complement, and if none are good solutions going forward we need to start a full rebuild now.

    #5 Get rid of deadweight like Slomar/Dwyer/Antivax/Gallardo and any others we can get good deals on or who aren't committed, and start filling out our roster from there


    One last note: we still have some good players, good enough to get back to MLS cup pretty soon with the right moves, but the main reason we took such a nosedive in 2021 is that our coaching/FO situation is truly abysmal, and there's a VERY simple, straightforward answe as to why.

    In 2017, we had arguably the best GM in the league in Tim Bezbatchenko. We had arguably the best coach in the league in Greg Vanney. We had arguably the best assistant coach in the league in Robin Fraser. In the space of two years between 2019 and 2020, all three of those guys left for free. And they were replaced with significant downgrades by the club president who, let's remember, only arrived at TFC after all of those three did.

    This is Bill Manning's biggest failure and the biggest point in favour of getting rid of him. Whether the 2020's are a return to the TFC of five years ago or the one of ten years ago depends will depend on what Manning does this off-season, and that's kind of terrifying.

  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    I would keep 13 of them

    Pozuelo (if he wants it)
    Osorio
    Shaff
    Priso
    Laryea
    Achara
    Okello
    JMR
    Nelsen
    Singh
    Lawrence
    Delgado
    Perruzza


    Fire the rest of them into the sun & lets start over
    Auro was better this year than any other defender on your list.

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    When discussion of the buyout comes up, journos all say it should be used on Gallardo. I kinda get it as he takes up a lot of cap space.

    BUT

    A DP who plays is way more valuable then whatever that cap space can get us.


    *******

    Agree with many others that say the medical/physio staff needs to be overhauled - either they are messing up in detection or they messing up in load management but something has been wrong since 2018 & things gotta change.

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    Never rooted for us to lose someone in the expansion draft before. But I definitely feel like it would help us this year.
    What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    Totally agree. There is a small subset of posters on this board who have always had it in for Oso. I’ve never understood the hate: he’s an excellent MLS player and part of the solution, not the problem.
    Entirely disagree. I was at the game today and didn't even notice he was on the field. Poz off, and does Oso step up? Of course not...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lil'John View Post
    Entirely disagree. I was at the game today and didn't even notice he was on the field. Poz off, and does Oso step up? Of course not...
    Key word is excellent MLS player. If Oso was able to step up, he would have already left for Europe.

    Its time to sell Oso and open a spot for our young midfielders to fill in and compete.

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  30. #330
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    Silly season is upon us

 

 

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