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  1. #421
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    MB as an MLS coach isn't ridiculous. MB as a rookie coach with his dad as his boss is.

    Historically having a green coach with an experienced coach above him as director of football, GM, board member etc does not work well. Let alone when its yer owl lad. Wilf McGuinness wasn't successful at United as Busby was always overlooking him. Rangnick at the RB clubs was instantly linked with taking over as coach anytime a Leipzig or Salzburg coach struggled. I know I'm forgetting loads of England in the 90's. Hell we had an example here with Mariner and Winter.

    MB joining his Dad as player/assistant coach is much more likely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    Why Pro? Do you mean Ali Curtis? The Athletic reports that Curtis is in talks with MLS to take an executive position in its lower-division league that will begin play next year. Maybe he can cause problems for TFC in the lower league, but it doesn't sound like he'll have anything to do with officiating.
    It was more gut feeling and with that announcement wrong, but I was certain he was going back to MLS/US Soccer/PRO (just didn't know where). There were some glaring mistakes against us this year and he never fought loud enough in my mind. The only rationale for me was, don't bite the hand that feeds you and my guess was PRO, they are also looking pretty bad right now with the Penalty missed call against LAG.
    Last edited by Bushmancan; 11-22-2021 at 07:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    MB as an MLS coach isn't ridiculous. MB as a rookie coach with his dad as his boss is.

    Historically having a green coach with an experienced coach above him as director of football, GM, board member etc does not work well. Let alone when its yer owl lad. Wilf McGuinness wasn't successful at United as Busby was always overlooking him. Rangnick at the RB clubs was instantly linked with taking over as coach anytime a Leipzig or Salzburg coach struggled. I know I'm forgetting loads of England in the 90's. Hell we had an example here with Mariner and Winter.

    MB joining his Dad as player/assistant coach is much more likely.
    I agree with your point that the player/assistant coach role is better. But what if it's not on the table?

    What if Bob said: “If I am GM, this is who I want as my manager. Otherwise, see you later.”

    Thats all I am saying.

    Bradley really has MLSE in a corner here, especially if Tanenbaum will agree to anything because he knows he needs a Manning replacement in place but has no other idea who that could be.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I agree with your point that the player/assistant coach role is better. But what if it's not on the table?

    What if Bob said: “If I am GM, this is who I want as my manager. Otherwise, see you later.”

    Thats all I am saying.

    Bradley really has MLSE in a corner here, especially if Tanenbaum will agree to anything because he knows he needs a Manning replacement in place but has no other idea who that could be.
    I'd put my money on Bob wanting both roles for now and I'm pretty sure Manning would want the same. This is neck on the block time for Manning. He isn't taking any risks with rookie coaches or sketchy signings. We're in the temporary era of low risk & overpay so I bet Bob does the dual for a while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I'd put my money on Bob wanting both roles for now and I'm pretty sure Manning would want the same. This is neck on the block time for Manning. He isn't taking any risks with rookie coaches or sketchy signings. We're in the temporary era of low risk & overpay so I bet Bob does the dual for a while.
    I agree with you IF Manning alone is calling this shot. But if it's Larry T and Manning together... I like my bet.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I agree with your point that the player/assistant coach role is better. But what if it's not on the table?

    What if Bob said: “If I am GM, this is who I want as my manager. Otherwise, see you later.”

    Thats all I am saying.

    Bradley really has MLSE in a corner here, especially if Tanenbaum will agree to anything because he knows he needs a Manning replacement in place but has no other idea who that could be.
    In that scenario I'd say goodbye to Bob. Coming into any role and your first demand is your son gets a huge promotion far beyond the level he should be at would be an almighty red flag in any profession and would likely end in tears for us. Now, whether MLSE, in the current situation they're in, would say goodbye to the top name manager they could realistically get in that situation is another story

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    Michael Bradley isn't going to take a head coach job when he's not experienced or qualified. It just doesn't strike me as his persona. He won't take something he doesn't think he's earned.

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    You could tell from the demeanor of players that some discussion of people's futures took place in September. Likely happened to Curtis back in August. Would allow for the all smiles discussions of late.


    ***********

    The fact that journos were all expecting both Curtis & Jozy to stay indicates to me that Manning has gotten control of the front office.

    Expect no leaks until Bill doesn't mind them leaking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Here is what I don’t think people are internalizing. Bob Bradley has options. Like, lots of options.

    He is not coming here to just do what he has already done. He has won MLS Cup, won the Supporters Shield, managed two national teams, managed an EPL team. Our manager job, alone? That would really really surprise me. There has to be something “more”.

    The obvious is the dual Manager/GM role. I could see that. That is where the odds lie. But think that through… do you think he would be here to manage MB out? That is what the job is, or would be, with anyone else….

    So what, then? I think would really float his boat is the opportunity to do this project with Michael (those will be his words, “project” is how he talks about his jobs).

    All those of you who think the idea of MB as an MLS manager as ridiculous are being overwrought. Don’t tell me he couldn’t get hired somewhere, even without experience , because I think he probably could. MB is a longtime USMNT captain and there is a ton of respect for him in MLS. More round the league than in Toronto, which is interesting and weird. It is a fact that guys like this get chances in world football without paying their dues.

    Have a look at the list of new MLS managers the last couple of years. Hardly any cause you to salivate. Mostly non entities plus Heinze and Neville (let me beat you to the punch -those two sucked, and I don’t think “name” newbies work either). But my point is, hardly any new MLS managers ever look “great” or inspire anything. The Ronny Deila's of the world don't ever excite anyone, nobody knows how they will do. Vanney sure didn’t inspire a thing at the start here.

    I don’t think it's the right answer either but what do you think TFC's options are right now? I can see how Bob Bradley, if he had sufficient leverage, which he might have (we suck right now, who else of any stature is coming here, really?) could get this done.

    It's not as crazy as most of you seem to think, and if BB comes, there will be something significant in it for MB. Maybe some kind of player/co-manager hybrid thing with Bob? Otherwise BB would go elsewhere.
    I’m sure Michael Bradley could get a coaching gig. But the standards of the league are increasing for both players and managers. Maybe the managers being hired don’t get people salivating but proper licenses and actual experience is becoming common. Even if it’s high level youth coaching.

    I’d prefer Michael Bradley began as an assistant and at the same time put in the formal study. With our budget we shouldn’t have to suffer more any naive managers.

    Anyway, wasn’t Bob Bradley one of the first Americans (or the first?) to get his UEFA badges? Maybe if it was ten years ago, okay, but now I hope he too would find it a touch ridiculous to appoint his son with no formal training or experience as manager. Micheal as an assistant sounds a much better idea.
    Last edited by los sonadores; 11-22-2021 at 09:14 PM. Reason: typos

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Michael Bradley isn't going to take a head coach job when he's not experienced or qualified. It just doesn't strike me as his persona. He won't take something he doesn't think he's earned.
    There’s that too. I’d hope neither Bradley would find Michael as head coach a good idea.
    Last edited by los sonadores; 11-22-2021 at 09:15 PM.

  11. #431
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    michael bradley is not going to be coaching toronto fc next season, people.

    what's in it for bob bradley?

    another major rebuilding job where he will have lots of power, big budget team, and the opportunity to live in the same city as his son and grandson.

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    Just a small reminder - Bob's brother works with the team too - he's in charge of communications.

    If this hire happens, this is Bob Bradley's last gig. Might as well do it around family.

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    Just to add a point (thinking of all the “nephew” haters on principle on this board). Sometimes nepotism works well. I have no idea about the corporate world but in the freelance world (and, given the brevity of the tenure, you could argue that head coaching is freelance work), you want someone working with you who understand you, is instantly on the same page, and also has your back. Family often does that best. If it’s a talented family, that is. And there are some.

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    Both Bradleys to retire with Toronto...Bob as a coach and Michael as a player...Michael starting and finishing his career with his father as his coach...what a story it would be if it happened and even a bigger one if they win a championship together with Toronto

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    Bob Bradley coming to the team to ensure his son is the next manager would be hilarious and a disgusting case of nepotism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Michael Bradley isn't going to take a head coach job when he's not experienced or qualified. It just doesn't strike me as his persona. He won't take something he doesn't think he's earned.
    Listen, I get that this may well not be what happens, but this won’t be why.

    Michael Bradley's story is the opposite of a guy waiting his turn. He has always done things people told him he wasn’t up to. 18 year old in MLS, the Eredivisie, USMNT, USMNT fixture, USMNT captain, Serie A, all of it.

    Also he has lived with the nepotism thing forever, everyone thought he got his place on the Metrostars and then USMNT roles because he was the manager's son.

    Also lots of players with his pedigree walk out of the dressing room and into the manager's office. It's a path. It's not weird.

    I think Michael Bradley lives by the credo, be prepared: “When you are the anvil, bear it. When you are the hammer, strike.”
    Last edited by ensco; 11-22-2021 at 09:49 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    I will stop now. I don’t want to be a troll, and I agree this is less than likely. I made my real point, which is about how the suit politics might be playing out, and what that might mean. peace
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  18. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I'd put my money on Bob wanting both roles for now and I'm pretty sure Manning would want the same. This is neck on the block time for Manning. He isn't taking any risks with rookie coaches or sketchy signings. We're in the temporary era of low risk & overpay so I bet Bob does the dual for a while.
    Yep. Manning there’s really nobody left here to point fingers at except for him. Something tells me the board pretty directly asked for some accountability and how they were going to be better and there wasn’t much of a story to tell unless Ali walked the plank.

    When you compound this with the Argos attendance issues, I think Manning is on very thin ice.

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    The fact that Curtis is no longer involved with acquisitions gives me a lot of hope. Had he stayed, I was not going to renew for next year (and I've had my seats since day 1).

    Gotta hand it to you ensco. You had predicted Curtis would be gone by season's end when Armas was fired. You were bang on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I will stop now. I don’t want to be a troll, and I agree this is less than likely. I made my real point, which is about how the suit politics might be playing out, and what that might mean. peace
    No backing out now, you've staked your entire reputation on MB as coach, lol.

    I've gotta hand it to you, you've got a really good understanding of how these guys tend to think. I didn't think Curtis was going, but you nailed it. Your understanding was even more dead on back when it was Anselmi running the show, your ability to get inside his mind was almost scary.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 11-22-2021 at 11:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Michael Bradley isn't going to take a head coach job when he's not experienced or qualified. It just doesn't strike me as his persona. He won't take something he doesn't think he's earned.
    This is what I have been feeling reading this thread. he will take his badges. And get an A+, if that is available. He is driven and wont take short cuts. I think Ensco is correct, but it will be handled in a more subtle way. Which means Michael would be in a development role next year.

    I also suspect the father son relationship is different than most posters assume. BB has made MB earn everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I will stop now. I don’t want to be a troll, and I agree this is less than likely. I made my real point, which is about how the suit politics might be playing out, and what that might mean. peace
    Ensco, this is a great discussion. No need to abandon us. Even if you are only about 65% correct...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    No backing out now, you've staked your entire reputation on MB as coach, lol.

    I've gotta hand it to you, you've got a really good understanding of how these guys tend to think. I didn't think Curtis was going, but you nailed it. Your understanding was even more dead on back when it was Anselmi running the show, your ability to get inside his mind was almost scary.
    Thanks. We will learn a lot about Manning's situation based on what happens here.

    I think Bob Bradley is a bigger name with a bigger pedigree than Manning, and I think Bob Bradley knows it.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    No backing out now, you've staked your entire reputation on MB as coach, lol.

    I've gotta hand it to you, you've got a really good understanding of how these guys tend to think. I didn't think Curtis was going, but you nailed it. Your understanding was even more dead on back when it was Anselmi running the show, your ability to get inside his mind was almost scary.
    Hmm.

    E N S C O

    TOM ANSELMI was E xecutive of leafs N ation S occer CO ...

    You nailed it Oldtimer

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    Did anyone believe in Curtis? When Winter was let go there was some discussion over it. With Curtis its a resounding what the hell took so long, should have been booted with Armas. If Manning did it then we would be 5 months into the new regime instead of now scrambling for a head coach and GM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    Ensco, this is a great discussion. No need to abandon us. Even if you are only about 65% correct...
    Oh I just don't want to suck up too much oxygen on what is just a theory. Your refinement (someone else said it too) may be exactly right, that MB will be an assistant next year, and will be manager in training.

    The whole thing promises to be exquisitely awkward for Manning, as a seamless structure to replace him will be in place regardless…
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Thanks. We will learn a lot about Manning's situation based on what happens here.

    I think Bob Bradley is a bigger name with a bigger pedigree than Manning, and I think Bob Bradley knows it.

    Of course he is. Not even close. in fact its pretty clear what is going to happen. Manning hires Bradley. Bradley stabilizes and brings some success. Manning leaves for his next opportunity so he can say "covid" caused 2021. Bradley becomes President.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    Hmm.

    E N S C O

    TOM ANSELMI was E xecutive of leafs N ation S occer CO ...

    You nailed it Oldtimer
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Oh I just don't want to suck up too much oxygen on what is just a theory. Your refinement (someone else said it too) may be exactly right, that MB will be an assistant next year, and will be manager in training.

    The whole thing promises to be exquisitely awkward for Manning, as a seamless structure to replace him will be in place regardless…
    I just had the same thought.

    Plus MB is totally capable of coaching in this league - or anywhere else. but I do believe he will get his badges. its in his nature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Listen, I get that this may well not be what happens, but this won’t be why.

    Michael Bradley's story is the opposite of a guy waiting his turn. He has always done things people told him he wasn’t up to. 18 year old in MLS, the Eredivisie, USMNT, USMNT fixture, USMNT captain, Serie A, all of it.

    Also he has lived with the nepotism thing forever, everyone thought he got his place on the Metrostars and then USMNT roles because he was the manager's son.

    Also lots of players with his pedigree walk out of the dressing room and into the manager's office. It's a path. It's not weird.

    I think Michael Bradley lives by the credo, be prepared: “When you are the anvil, bear it. When you are the hammer, strike.”
    If Michael is still a player next season (and not player/assistant coach or head coach) it should be very interesting to see how Bob uses him.

    Although the extreme and nasty nepotism charges continued well after Michael had proven himself at a young age in Europe and with the Nats (and later too under the dreadful Klinsmann), he was pretty good at 17, starting in MLS, under his father.

    But he hasn’t looked an every game starter now for a couple of seasons. It seemed very telling that he was most likely to be closer to his best after some rest, even one match off. That’s difficult to counter. Unless the expected happens, sounds like it could be a genuinely difficult time for both of them if the minutes are not ‘managed’.

 

 

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