View Poll Results: Curtis at TFC - on December 31, 2021

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  • In the same position as on August 31 - Odds: +160

    6 20.00%
  • Not in the same position - Odds: -180

    24 80.00%
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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Interesting article. Do you think TFC does this:

    “There were a number of players from South America – Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay – whose names we put down as early priorities. The profiles of the players drives where we look. They could come from anywhere in the world, we’re just trying to be specific about where they are in the team.”

    I'm guessing no. We see who is available and figure out how to fit them in a team.
    He's done so little that wasn't essentially gift-wrapped or poorly timed that I have no idea what his plan is. But given how we addressed our two most serious shortages -- of a decent center half and a striker -- by buying a winger for $6M, it doesn't seem he has a plan at all.

    Why release Zavaleta after his deal was up just to re-sign him? If he was good enough, we'd have offered the minimal deal immediately. Instead, he waited three months, suggesting he couldn't get anyone else.

    I think lots of us like Mullins and DeLeon for work ethic, but neither is adding much. Dwyer was clearly -- clearly -- crocked at Orlando and contributing nothing there. Why he thought that would change...

    I think he sees himself as a value guy, who sees value where others don't. Which is just extraordinarily arrogant when we're talking about such known commodities.

    He got us Lawrence, a straight-up defensive fullback, then got a speedy winger who would be best paired with a wingback who overlaps. I mean, we might as well use Lawrence at center half, where he played sometimes for NYRB, for all the good he does us out wide.

    If there's a plan there, it's one that gets thrown out on a moment's anxiety.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Okay we’re debating at cross purposes, because being a mid table team is of zero interest to me.

    20% is six players. You think we’re only six players from being competitive?

    No one said start over from scratch, but the idea that we’re six players from being competitive is woefully optimistic.
    Yes. I do think we are only 6 players from being competitive. Because we are one player from second place less than a year ago… as mentioned previously. As long as we have a competent manager in place shortly after our last game of the season. Who should be instrumental to the input of who those six new players are, and who the 6 are that go.

    What is difference of “we need a complete overhaul” in your post previous and “no one said start over from scratch” in the one above??

    In all seriousness, we should only change 20% for next season based on input from a new manager. I do think by this time next year we are likely another 10% change again to keep rotating out our older players.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    He's done so little that wasn't essentially gift-wrapped or poorly timed that I have no idea what his plan is. But given how we addressed our two most serious shortages -- of a decent center half and a striker -- by buying a winger for $6M, it doesn't seem he has a plan at all.

    Why release Zavaleta after his deal was up just to re-sign him? If he was good enough, we'd have offered the minimal deal immediately. Instead, he waited three months, suggesting he couldn't get anyone else.

    I think lots of us like Mullins and DeLeon for work ethic, but neither is adding much. Dwyer was clearly -- clearly -- crocked at Orlando and contributing nothing there. Why he thought that would change...

    I think he sees himself as a value guy, who sees value where others don't. Which is just extraordinarily arrogant when we're talking about such known commodities.

    He got us Lawrence, a straight-up defensive fullback, then got a speedy winger who would be best paired with a wingback who overlaps. I mean, we might as well use Lawrence at center half, where he played sometimes for NYRB, for all the good he does us out wide.

    If there's a plan there, it's one that gets thrown out on a moment's anxiety.
    This entire post makes my blood boil, because of how accurate it is. Curtis has taken a roster that was absolute top quality in the league and dragged it down to mediocrity.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    He's done so little that wasn't essentially gift-wrapped or poorly timed that I have no idea what his plan is. But given how we addressed our two most serious shortages -- of a decent center half and a striker -- by buying a winger for $6M, it doesn't seem he has a plan at all.

    Why release Zavaleta after his deal was up just to re-sign him? If he was good enough, we'd have offered the minimal deal immediately. Instead, he waited three months, suggesting he couldn't get anyone else.

    I think lots of us like Mullins and DeLeon for work ethic, but neither is adding much. Dwyer was clearly -- clearly -- crocked at Orlando and contributing nothing there. Why he thought that would change...

    I think he sees himself as a value guy, who sees value where others don't. Which is just extraordinarily arrogant when we're talking about such known commodities.

    He got us Lawrence, a straight-up defensive fullback, then got a speedy winger who would be best paired with a wingback who overlaps. I mean, we might as well use Lawrence at center half, where he played sometimes for NYRB, for all the good he does us out wide.

    If there's a plan there, it's one that gets thrown out on a moment's anxiety.
    The hilarious demise of this team is illustrated by the fact that Kemar Lawrence IS starting at centre half right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    The hilarious demise of this team is illustrated by the fact that Kemar Lawrence IS starting at centre half right now.

    And currently...playing OK.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    And currently...playing OK.
    He was great for those 37 minutes.

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    This game is a farce. I feel bad for anyone who showed up for this

  8. #68
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    As a legit Drew Moor fan, I'm calling Bullshit on your post.


    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    He started eight games this year then got injured. And he started for them for Three full seasons after leaving us, and did well. So clearly, he was capable of it. Whether he is now is sort of moot, given that we let him go in 2018. If not for injuring himself, he'd still be better than anyone we have starting other than Mavinga, who is one of the best athletes as a CB in the league.

    NO, He was not a starter for them for 3 full seasons after he left us.

    - He joined Colorado at the start of 2020 season.
    - He only played 8 games for them in 2020 and he only started 5 of them.
    - He's only played 8 games this year and has been injured for a good part of this season.

    Mentally he is better than any CB TFC has currently or ever had.
    Physically, he was done after the 2018 season - if he didn't get injured at the start of 2018 - he may have been able to continue as a starter, but that injury, like MB4's in 2019, was the beginning of the end for him.



    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post

    Why don't you believe that? He's on 1.3M per season. As Matt Doyle pointed out that would pay for an entire back line at multiple clubs. He's insanely overpaid and we have very little cap space, so how is it possible that it's not "handcuffing" us?

    I mean.... it won't be in six months, because it expires. But it sure has been since he got here. And even in his first year for us he ranged between mediocre and shit.
    Because getting a CB Leader is just as important and critical to a teams success as getting a top notch clinical striker and you spend $$ to get that.

    You want to talk about financial handcuffs, the following contracts handcuffed us from getting a proper CB replacement way before Omars did

    - Erikson Gaillardo
    - Eric Zavaleta
    - Laurent Ciman
    - Having 2 number 1 goalies on an MLS roster
    - Jozy Altidore (if you wanna get crazy and use a DP slot for a CB Leader)

    Don't tell me the guy who fucking steadied our shakey backline, played 58 times since he's been here (vs Drew Moors 16) made critical plays in our 2019 run and continued to hold down the fort in a 2020 2nd overall finish was not worth the money.

    Yes the current situation has exposed him and IMO they are things you don't rely on when signing players (New manager, the rapid fall of MB4)

    And yes Curtis gambled poorly in assuming Omar had 1 extra year in him (That was Curtis' fault on this, the 1 extra year)
    but I'll tell you 100% without a doubt, 1.3 million was worth it for the success we had the past 2 years.
    Last edited by jabbronies; 09-15-2021 at 08:41 AM.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    As a legit Drew Moor fan, I'm calling Bullshit on your post.





    NO, He was not a starter for them for 3 full seasons after he left us.

    - He joined Colorado at the start of 2020 season.
    - He only played 8 games for them in 2020 and he only started 5 of them.
    - He's only played 8 games this year and has been injured for a good part of this season.

    Mentally he is better than any CB TFC has currently or ever had.
    Physically, he was done after the 2018 season - if he didn't get injured at the start of 2018 - he may have been able to continue as a starter, but that injury, like MB4's in 2019, was the beginning of the end for him.





    Because getting a CB Leader is just as important and critical to a teams success as getting a top notch clinical striker and you spend $$ to get that.

    You want to talk about financial handcuffs, the following contracts handcuffed us from getting a proper CB replacement way before Omars did

    - Erikson Gaillardo
    - Eric Zavaleta
    - Laurent Ciman
    - Having 2 number 1 goalies on an MLS roster
    - Jozy Altidore (if you wanna get crazy and use a DP slot for a CB Leader)

    Don't tell me the guy who fucking steadied our shakey backline, played 58 times since he's been here (vs Drew Moors 16) made critical plays in our 2019 run and continued to hold down the fort in a 2020 2nd overall finish was not worth the money.

    Yes the current situation has exposed him and IMO they are things you don't rely on when signing players (New manager, the rapid fall of MB4)

    And yes Curtis gambled poorly in assuming Omar had 1 extra year in him (That was Curtis' fault on this, the 1 extra year)
    but I'll tell you 100% without a doubt, 1.3 million was worth it for the success we had the past 2 years.
    Agreed.

    But to emphasize the Altidore DP was a collasoal mistake that has literally killed our club. He was consistently injured and endless attitude issues on and off the field...and what do we do? We reward him with a massive DP contract...what did we expect would happen? He'd magically become injury free as he got older and even less interested?

    He is currently on the 5th highest paid contract in all of MLS. His return the last two years? A grand total of 4 measely goals. Imagine if we actually had a striker...let alone a DP striker, we would not be in this mess. And we still have another year of this Altidore massive contract hanging around our necks drowning us while he laughs all the way to the bank.

    Bottom line, Curtis never should have been hired here in the first place. He was booted out of red bulls and his buddy Manning hired him here...and its been a disaster ever since.

    Manning AND Curtis need to go. Now. Time to try and rebuild. It will be a long and slow and painful rebuild. Manning and Curtis have literally destroyed the club with their imcompetence and need to go before they run us further into the ground. All this with the highest payroll in MLS. Shameful.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    This doesn't help your argument. Both Fraser and Vanney have completely rebuilt those rosters, to the tune of seventeen new players in LA over one season and fifteen in Colorado over two.

    They didn't just start coaching shit teams and become good. They literally overhauled the rosters completely. So, no, it's clearly not just about the coaching or even anywhere close to that.

    There's a full feature story on Vanney's rebuild on mlssoccer.com right now. I'd suggest reading it. Their roster was completely fucked and he's rebuilt it by getting rid of two-thirds of the players on contract.

    https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/how-t...reg-vanney-era

    Dude wtf are you talking about today?

    It's 100% about the coaching - but really you should be calling them Managers. The Article YOU POSTED even backs that up.
    Vanney went in to LA, looked at the roster, saw what they had and what they lacked, and then made changes in order for them to get better. This is what managers do. They manage the roster in order for the team to get better.

    Armas came in and didn't manage the roster. He didn't care about what the team had or lacked - he only cared about what he wanted, and that was to instil a particular style of play. A style of play that didn't suit what the team had

    And because of this lack of managerial skills, the team went out and got random pieces that suited what Armas wanted, not what the team needed.
    What the fuck are we doing with a player like Soteldo - great player! amazing talent. But that's not what this team needed. Service to the Strikers isn't our top issue. That's what Armas needed for his attacking style.

    It's hard to blame the players when some of the them are thrusted into situations they have no business being in. The players know their situation is fucked, they're not idiots, they see what's happening. But what can they do? It's a demotivating situation.

    and...not to shit on the guy because I like his football philosophy, but Perez isn't a motivating person. He's an assistant who usually speaks to the manager (who then speaks to the players). He's a tech head who looks at the game from a very technical perspective. He's not capable of doing what a manager needs to do to motivate the players to be better.
    Last edited by jabbronies; 09-15-2021 at 09:16 AM.

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    Last edited by rydermike; 09-15-2021 at 09:33 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rydermike View Post
    He was probably fired and we'll hear about it in a month.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    He was probably fired and we'll hear about it in a month.
    Two weeks. Right after the end of the statutory two week minimum.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    He was probably fired and we'll hear about it in a month.
    They will announce it with 2022 SSH ticket window to show their commitment towards success.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    Dude wtf are you talking about today?

    It's 100% about the coaching - but really you should be calling them Managers. The Article YOU POSTED even backs that up.
    Vanney went in to LA, looked at the roster, saw what they had and what they lacked, and then made changes in order for them to get better. This is what managers do. They manage the roster in order for the team to get better..
    You're confusing manager with GM.

    At the end of last year, LA either let go or allowed contracts to expire on 17 of 30 players.

    Vanney may have wanted that and asked for it, it may even be his decision. But it wasn't his job to do it, it was their GM, Dennis de Kloese.

    You're assuming Armas didn't ask Curtis for changes, or that Armas somehow has a role in that decision. There's no guarantee AT ALL that that's the case. We have no idea what the dynamic was. TFC has NEVER had a head coach who was also GM.

    'Managing' our roster here means Curtis, not Armas, just as in LA it means Dennis de Kloese, not Greg Vanney.

    Also, even in his MLS rookie of the year winning year, Omar wasn't a "line leader". LA Fans complained bitterly that as soon as Aj Delagarza was no longer paired with him he was LOST positionally, regularly, the same thing fans at Pachuca complained about. The year he went to Mexico, they were utterly relieved to have his million dollar brick of a salary off their books.

    He's always been a great athlete and when someone's directing him, he was a good center back. But he was NEVER a line leader.

    I'll concede Moor because you're right, he was crocked again in the middle of last year. But I'm not going to concede that anyone who's watched Omar play since he left the Galaxy thinks he's any fucking good, or a line leader. Pachuca fans thought he was a bomb scare every time he touched the pitch.


    EDIT: Also on the "Dude WTF are you talking about" front: Perez isn't a motivating person. He's an assistant who usually speaks to the manager (who then speaks to the players). He's a tech head who looks at the game from a very technical perspective. He's not capable of doing what a manager needs to do to motivate the players to be better.

    How the fuck do you know this? Because it seems like a guess phrased as a statement of fact.

    They played pretty goddamn well last night, which one might suggest he had some role in. It was a cobbled together lineup but they looked pretty damn motivated. Again, my supposition based on what we see. But we don't get to see or hear his discussions with the team, so you have no way of backing that up at all.


    Last edited by jloome; 09-15-2021 at 10:47 AM.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    Dude wtf are you talking about today?

    It's 100% about the coaching - but really you should be calling them Managers. The Article YOU POSTED even backs that up.
    Vanney went in to LA, looked at the roster, saw what they had and what they lacked, and then made changes in order for them to get better. This is what managers do. They manage the roster in order for the team to get better.

    Armas came in and didn't manage the roster. He didn't care about what the team had or lacked - he only cared about what he wanted, and that was to instil a particular style of play. A style of play that didn't suit what the team had

    And because of this lack of managerial skills, the team went out and got random pieces that suited what Armas wanted, not what the team needed.
    What the fuck are we doing with a player like Soteldo - great player! amazing talent. But that's not what this team needed. Service to the Strikers isn't our top issue. That's what Armas needed for his attacking style.

    It's hard to blame the players when some of the them are thrusted into situations they have no business being in. The players know their situation is fucked, they're not idiots, they see what's happening. But what can they do? It's a demotivating situation.

    and...not to shit on the guy because I like his football philosophy, but Perez isn't a motivating person. He's an assistant who usually speaks to the manager (who then speaks to the players). He's a tech head who looks at the game from a very technical perspective. He's not capable of doing what a manager needs to do to motivate the players to be better.
    This!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    You're confusing manager with GM.

    At the end of last year, LA either let go or allowed contracts to expire on 17 of 30 players.

    Vanney may have wanted that and asked for it, it may even be his decision. But it wasn't his job to do it, it was their GM, Dennis de Kloese.

    You're assuming Armas didn't ask Curtis for changes, or that Armas somehow has a role in that decision. There's no guarantee AT ALL that that's the case. We have no idea what the dynamic was. TFC has NEVER had a head coach who was also GM.

    'Managing' our roster here means Curtis, not Armas, just as in LA it means Dennis de Kloese, not Greg Vanney.

    Also, even in his MLS rookie of the year winning year, Omar wasn't a "line leader". LA Fans complained bitterly that as soon as Aj Delagarza was no longer paired with him he was LOST positionally, regularly, the same thing fans at Pachuca complained about. The year he went to Mexico, they were utterly relieved to have his million dollar brick of a salary off their books.

    He's always been a great athlete and when someone's directing him, he was a good center back. But he was NEVER a line leader.

    I'll concede Moor because you're right, he was crocked again in the middle of last year. But I'm not going to concede that anyone who's watched Omar play since he left the Galaxy thinks he's any fucking good, or a line leader. Pachuca fans thought he was a bomb scare every time he touched the pitch.
    I think you aren't grasping that a true Manager is an overlap between a Coach and GM. SAF was a Manager, Mourihno was a Manager. Vanney was a manager under Bez, he became a coach under curtis, didn't like the decisions he had no input in and then left be a Manager at LAG.

    Coaches are typically assistant coaches, true managers have just as much input in roster moves as the GM. The GM's job is to execute them.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by CowTipper View Post
    Two weeks. Right after the end of the statutory two week minimum.
    They'll say two weeks but it'll be a month.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrillos View Post
    I think you aren't grasping that a true Manager is an overlap between a Coach and GM. SAF was a Manager, Mourihno was a Manager. Vanney was a manager under Bez, he became a coach under curtis, didn't like the decisions he had no input in and then left be a Manager at LAG.

    Coaches are typically assistant coaches, true managers have just as much input in roster moves as the GM. The GM's job is to execute them.
    Again, this is pure supposition and has NEVER been the case in MLS. We have had cases for years of teams where the GM and coach didn't even get along, ala Mo and John Carver or Marsch and Curtis in NY.

    Curtis didn't allow Marsch to make those decisions, Marsch went over his head and NY got rid of Curtis because they valued Marsch more.

    It's not a lunchroom where the biggest bully gets the table he wants. We've had divided roles in this league forever. I'm not saying it's right, it's just an entirely different reality from the EPL, where most managers are also field bosses.

    "True managers" is a fairytale. It's a job, with a job description, that they accept or not. Vanney didn't overule Bezbatchenko. Bez was in charge there. He may have been a GOOD GM and actually listened to his head coach, but that doesn't make the head coach the manager. That's not how jobs work.
    Last edited by jloome; 09-15-2021 at 10:54 AM.

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    Vermes is the only true old school manager type in MLS. https://www.sportingkc.com/club/tech.../peter-vermes/

    Wonder if he fancies a change of scenery

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Again, this is pure supposition and has NEVER been the case in MLS. We have had cases for years of teams where the GM and coach didn't even get along, ala Mo and John Carver or Marsch and Curtis in NY.

    Curtis didn't allow Marsch to make those decisions, Marsch went over his head and NY got rid of Curtis because they valued Marsch more.

    It's not a lunchroom where the biggest bully gets the table he wants. We've had divided roles in this league forever. I'm not saying it's right, it's just an entirely different reality from the EPL, where most managers are also field bosses.

    "True managers" is a fairytale. It's a job, with a job description, that they accept or not. Vanney didn't overule Bezbatchenko. Bez was in charge there. He may have been a GOOD GM and actually listened to his head coach, but that doesn't make the head coach the manager. That's not how jobs work.
    I am losing your plot a bit...

    But as Areathrasher mentioned, true managers are definitely not fairy tale as in addition to Vermes, you have Bruce Arena at NER. Plus your own article pointed to Vanney having direct input on the players he brought in. If anything our success was when Bez was the GM in terms of getting the players that Vanney wanted when he was a true Manager. You pointing to the fact that Bez was in charge and Vanney didn't overrule has nothing to do with Vanney being a true manager vs. a coach. It just proves you still don't understand the concept.

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    No, it proves bez was the manager and Vanney was the coach. It’s not a concept, it’s reality.

    I understand, after forty-five years of watching football, what the difference is.

    You just confirmedyourself that Bez was in charge a and that there are some clubs where one guy does both jobs…. Which also means at most MLS clubs they DONT.

    So you just confirmed I’m right.

    People are wrong all the time. I went by memory on Drew Moor , was called out and admitted fault. Adults with humility admit it and move on. That way they are able to have continual productive discussions and don’t end up only posting a few hundred times in fourteen years.

    I don’t agree with Jabbronies about our roster or Omar but I respect that he’s making actual points, not trying to pump a drowned corpse with air until it floats.

    Edit : and it’s just disingenuous to pretend having input is the same as having decision making powers
    Last edited by jloome; 09-15-2021 at 12:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    No, it proves bez was the manager and Vanney was the coach. It’s not a concept, it’s reality.

    I understand, after forty-five years of watching football, what the difference is.

    You just confirmedyourself that Bez was in charge a and that there are some clubs where one guy does both jobs…. Which also means at most MLS clubs they DONT.

    So you just confirmed I’m right.

    People are wrong all the time. I went by memory on Drew Moor , was called out and admitted fault. Adults with humility admit it and move on. That way they are able to have continual productive discussions and don’t end up only posting a few hundred times in fourteen years.

    I don’t agree with Jabbronies about our roster or Omar but I respect that he’s making actual points, not trying to pump a drowned corpse with air until it floats.

    Edit : and it’s just disingenuous to pretend having input is the same as having decision making powers
    1. Being a bit older doesn't make you smarter, but amazing you try to use that to prove you are right
    2. You are still stuck on titles vs. how they operate - never disagreed with the titles...
    3. You are getting personal now while trying to say i don't have humility for just agreeing with you, look in the mirror dude
    4. your edit comment still completely misses the mark of the point i was trying to make
    5. sorry, no one let me know that having more posts than someone else means you get to look down on them, with the assumption that those with lower post counts mean they are having pointless conversation. (in all seriousness, the irony of that statement you made is utterly hilarious)

    Overall, agree to disagree, don't feel like continuing to engage with someone that resorts to personal attacks when they don't like what they read/hear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    You're confusing manager with GM.

    At the end of last year, LA either let go or allowed contracts to expire on 17 of 30 players.
    Vanney may have wanted that and asked for it, it may even be his decision. But it wasn't his job to do it, it was their GM, Dennis de Kloese.
    You're assuming Armas didn't ask Curtis for changes, or that Armas somehow has a role in that decision. There's no guarantee AT ALL that that's the case. We have no idea what the dynamic was. TFC has NEVER had a head coach who was also GM.
    'Managing' our roster here means Curtis, not Armas, just as in LA it means Dennis de Kloese, not Greg Vanney.
    This is a bigger convo - but at the end of the day what I'm seeing:

    If de Kloese was really managing the roster as you described it - he wouldn't have had to do this. Those 17 players would've been thoughtfully brought in as part of de Kloese bigger vision and all he needed was a new "coach" to play these players the way he envisioned it. (with only minor tweeks needed).

    17 player overhaul is the new "Manager" coming in and saying - "this is what I need, please get it for me."
    Some of those needs will be targeted specifically (such as VV and the 4 french guys), others would be "I need this type of player" and de Kloese getting players that fit that mold.

    Obviously there is a partnership here and it's not a dictatorship like in European clubs. But I'm convinced, even in MLS, the teams that are successful are the ones where the "Coach/Manager" is doing the above things with the GM supporting by getting what he needs.


    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post

    Also, even in his MLS rookie of the year winning year, Omar wasn't a "line leader". LA Fans complained bitterly that as soon as Aj Delagarza was no longer paired with him he was LOST positionally, regularly, the same thing fans at Pachuca complained about. The year he went to Mexico, they were utterly relieved to have his million dollar brick of a salary off their books.

    He's always been a great athlete and when someone's directing him, he was a good center back. But he was NEVER a line leader.
    Omar wasn't a backline leader prior to TFC. And Vanney said in his scrums that Omar wasn't a backline leader, but he did have some experience recently and Vanney said he had ways to accomodate that in order to get Omar the tools he would need to do the things the team needed him to do

    And with hindsight being 20/20, for 2 solid years, Omar did do it. First with help from Bradley and when he went down, then with help from a double pivot of Delgado and Oso.

    I'm not saying we keep him around, I think his time is over and that gamble on the 3rd year with a new manager was a flop
    But what I am saying is he's not the incompetent donkey everyone is making him out to be - again with a proper manager in place, this could've been mitigated as it was for 2 very successful seasons.

    Everyone has shit stained glasses on right now because the team is shit and they want Curtis out, which I agree with, but some of the points being brought up are BS


    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    I'll concede Moor because you're right, he was crocked again in the middle of last year. But I'm not going to concede that anyone who's watched Omar play since he left the Galaxy thinks he's any fucking good, or a line leader. Pachuca fans thought he was a bomb scare every time he touched the pitch.
    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post

    EDIT: Also on the "Dude WTF are you talking about" front: Perez isn't a motivating person. He's an assistant who usually speaks to the manager (who then speaks to the players). He's a tech head who looks at the game from a very technical perspective. He's not capable of doing what a manager needs to do to motivate the players to be better.

    How the fuck do you know this? Because it seems like a guess phrased as a statement of fact.

    They played pretty goddamn well last night, which one might suggest he had some role in. It was a cobbled together lineup but they looked pretty damn motivated. Again, my supposition based on what we see. But we don't get to see or hear his discussions with the team, so you have no way of backing that up at all.
    I'm not going to lie, I only have what I'm given access to and it's not much to go on, but there are pretty clear indicators from:

    Watching him in the sidelines: being back at the stadium, I'm again able to bring my binoculars and watch what people are doing. Unlike most other Managers, including Vanney, this guy is very subdued and not very vocal. His energy is calm, and his presence isn't as predominant as a manager should be. This laid back demeanour is by the leader rubs off on the players and it shows in the way they play. They don't have fight or bite in their play. They are late to challenges (usually not even showing up). They are soft on the ball. They don't have any fire being lit under their asses. You cannot tell me this team plays with any of that. which leads me to exhibit B

    Watching what is posted on those All for One videos: I've created video docs similar to these for Target, Molson Canadian and Carlsberg, so I know these are glorified puff pieces that show exaggerated scenes of Triumph, or in our case, despair. They choose the most high energy, motivating elements to tell a story. And whenever they use his pre-game or post game or training clips - they are boring AF, low energy... They do this because this is the best they have. Trust me, if they had better, they would use better. We've seen it in other seasons of this series. He speaks like a technical coach giving directions in a training session. If you've ever experienced that, you'll know they are emotionless. The message he delivers isn't emotional. It's technical.


    Listening to how he speaks in scrum: Same as above. He's boring. He speak very technically. He doesn't speak like someone who has hands on experience in the game. I don't know if he played pro or not, but he comes at certain topics from a "book perspective" when he should be coming at it from an "in-game perspective" Its hard for me to explain this one and I'll try and find an example in this when I get time.

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    I’ll concede I see the same thing with him.
    Last night has me thinking I was wrong but maybe that was just guys playing for their jobs. Looked more like fight and pride than we’ve seen all season.

    Omar we’ll just agree to disagree on past seasons. I don’t think he was solid past the end of 2019. I think we agree his speed is totally gone now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrillos View Post

    Overall, agree to disagree, don't feel like continuing to engage with someone that resorts to personal attacks when they don't like what they read/hear.
    Yeah, no lack of self awareness on your part whatsoever to having begun the personal insults with the suggestion I didn’t understand your incredibly witless point. None at all.

    You want to get personal, don’t expect me or any other self respecting adult to just ignore it.

    And if you choose not to debate, good. You’ve offered zero of value so far, unlike most posters here, so no great loss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Yeah, no lack of self awareness on your part whatsoever to having begun the personal insults with the suggestion I didn’t understand your incredibly witless point. None at all.

    You want to get personal, don’t expect me or any other self respecting adult to just ignore it.

    And if you choose not to debate, good. You’ve offered zero of value so far, unlike most posters here, so no great loss.
    lol... wow

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    I think this is where the discrepancy lies in the argument that Omar was worth more than 1 season:

    {Omar wasn't a backline leader prior to TFC. And Vanney said in his scrums that Omar wasn't a backline leader, but he did have some experience recently and Vanney said he had ways to accomodate that in order to get Omar the tools he would need to do the things the team needed him to do

    And with hindsight being 20/20, for 2 solid years, Omar did do it. First with help from Bradley and when he went down, then with help from a double pivot of Delgado and Oso.

    I'm not saying we keep him around, I think his time is over and that gamble on the 3rd year with a new manager was a flop
    But what I am saying is he's not the incompetent donkey everyone is making him out to be - again with a proper manager in place, this could've been mitigated as it was for 2 very successful seasons}

    ^Omar might not be a donkey, but you don’t pay over 1mil a season for a defender in MLS and have to compensate for him?! Any defender making over a mil in MLS right now should be someone that compensates for other cheaper players. In my opinion, he’s maybe the worst signing by Curtis to date for exactly this reason.

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    I think Erickson Gallardo and Jozy’s extension were his worst ever but yeah, a deal that rich was way too much for season-and-a-half performance from a number two CB.

    Tim Parker moved clubs twice during that period as I recall. LA let Walker Zimmerman go to Nashville in that period. There were much better options.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    I think Erickson Gallardo and Jozy’s extension were his worst ever but yeah, a deal that rich was way too much for season-and-a-half performance from a number two CB.

    Tim Parker moved clubs twice during that period as I recall. LA let Walker Zimmerman go to Nashville in that period. There were much better options.
    Jozy extension is definitely the worst, but I was thinking of intial contracts only. I rate Omar’s contract as worse than Gallardo because of Omar’s cap it. Also, Gallardo was also never expected to be the lynch pin of anything.

    When Parker and Zimmerman were available I can remember praying we would get either of them, it’s part of what made Omar such a disappointing signing. Can you imagine if Zimmerman would have signed!?
    Last edited by Kamp Berg; 09-15-2021 at 04:23 PM.

 

 

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