Ali Curtis at TFC - on December 31, 2021

[OgtheDim]

Anybody who would not take Walker Zimmerman or Sebastian Leigeit right now needs to take a step back. Yup, don't go for Sargent but the idea that no USMNT should be on this MLS team is an overreaction.


We had Bradley & Jozy because they were available. Both have been immense for the club (we need to move on)

The only other USMNT person we got was Omar, who did well his first season but dropped off the precipice soon after, at a younger age then most CBs. (I wouldn't call Bono having a Klinsman call up for one session being drafted at the same time a USMNT pick)

Every other player who was USMNT while with us got called up due to TFC play - Morrow & Delgado

[MikeForbes]

I cheer for the players who wear the kit, not the birth certificate of said players. This nationalist stuff is kind of lame. If you want TFC to be a CMNT developmental team, get used to this spot in the standings.

[MightyDM]

I cheer for the players who wear the kit, not the birth certificate of said players. This nationalist stuff is kind of lame. If you want TFC to be a CMNT developmental team, get used to this spot in the standings.

I think the point being made is that it is lazy recruiting for our management to recruit USMNT players ie they are recruiting from repautation. I think it’s a fair criticism as Omar, Dwyer and Kemar Lawrence are all players who have been recently recruited apparently on reputation, Kemar the best of those but we didn’t need him as much as a CB - brining him in used up whatever $$$ we had.

[Thrillos]

Seattle had five starters out, including two DPs, their leading scorer and their goalkeeper, for nearly half the season. And they lost twice during that period. If that's not players competing for spots, I'm not sure what is.

I didn't mean players of equivalent value, I meant players competing for their spot.

Our second string is never going to be as strong as our first, because it isn't at any club on Earth. But the players behind the starters at least have to be able to play at a competitive enough level to keep the first team competitive. That's what competing for spots is, having relevant second string players. Not having two first teams.

New England lost a guy on pace to shatter the league assist record and didn't slow a whit. NYFC is as deep as Seattle, and almost every other team in the east at least has a few guys on the bench who could start at other clubs.

We have ZERO competitive depth. Every guy we bring in makes us inestimably weaker. That's what not having competing players means.

I do agree with you on Seattle, they have depth. I am on the fence with NYCFC.

I never made the assumption that it meant two first strings and I am not sure why you are saying that.

I definitely disagree with the zero competition for spots.

We have three very capable full backs for two spots. Lareray, Morrow and auro. Any team would add them to their lineup

We have at CM in bradley, Delgado and Priso. Any team would add them to their lineup.

We have depth at CAM. Osorio, Deleon, and pozuelo. Any team would take them.

More arguable positions are wingers where soteldo, shaffelberg, achara, and endoh would likely make the 18 man lineup

We don’t have depth up top where only altidore and Akinola would make other rosters, no one would take Dwyer or Mullins.

CB again as stated we only have one that people would truly take. I MIGHT make the argument that gonazaelz might make the bench as the back up CB for most clubs. Similar to how Ciman was used by Vanney.

[MightyDM]

We are less than the sum of our parts.

[ag futbol]

I cheer for the players who wear the kit, not the birth certificate of said players. This nationalist stuff is kind of lame. If you want TFC to be a CMNT developmental team, get used to this spot in the standings.

Ehh we’ve drifted to extremes here. Not my intent with the original comment to say we need to fly the flag and become a CANMNT finishing school.

But people need to keep in mind this whole league was created with developing American Players and Managers in mind. They stick with their own more often than we’d like to otherwise believe as often modest, self-effacing Canadians. I’ll stand by my comment Omar’s contract was supported by his passport, not his actual level of play. A player who was the butt of jokes and had lost his spot on a league slightly better than MLS was given a million dollar deal. Does that not sound off?

Similarly, while I don’t think we should just walk every prospect into the first team, very clearly we are missing opportunities. If you’re to take the top 5 players (heck maybe 10) coming out of the GTA in the last 5 years, I bet none of those play for TFC. Our youth development has to get better and we sit in a market where it should be decent. And in no way to I mean that as let’s play the kids and become FCD. I mean let’s take the easy win here and actually use a small fraction of the talent that’s under our nose and actually do a good job developing it so it’s ready for the first team.

[MightyDM]

And that’s on Management for getting too many of some parts and not enough of others; on Armas for being a disaster and possibly on Perez (jury still out there)

[Canary10]

Anybody who would not take Walker Zimmerman or Sebastian Leigeit right now needs to take a step back. Yup, don't go for Sargent but the idea that no USMNT should be on this MLS team is an overreaction.


We had Bradley & Jozy because they were available. Both have been immense for the club (we need to move on)

The only other USMNT person we got was Omar, who did well his first season but dropped off the precipice soon after, at a younger age then most CBs. (I wouldn't call Bono having a Klinsman call up for one session being drafted at the same time a USMNT pick)

Every other player who was USMNT while with us got called up due to TFC play - Morrow & Delgado

What's wrong with Sargent?

[Thrillos]

We are less than the sum of our parts.

I violently agree with this statement.

I put the blame on this squarely on Curtis for not creating too much depth in some positions (CM/CAM) and not enough in others (FW/CB). In addition, he replaced Vanney by someone who anyone other than him knew would not work out, and waited about 4 games too long to make the change. Lastly he replaced Armas with someone who clearly doesn't have the personality and motivational abilities a true manager needs. 2021 didn't have to a be write off, Curtis' bad decision making just kept making it worse and worse. Now i just hope i don't add another example of why Curtis needs to gone before he is actually gone...

[MightyDM]

Ehh we’ve drifted to extremes here. Not my intent with the original comment to say we need to fly the flag and become a CANMNT finishing school.

But people need to keep in mind this whole league was created with developing American Players and Managers in mind. They stick with their own more often than we’d like to otherwise believe as often modest, self-effacing Canadians. I’ll stand by my comment Omar’s contract was supported by his passport, not his actual level of play. A player who was the butt of jokes and had lost his spot on a league slightly better than MLS was given a million dollar deal. Does that not sound off?

Similarly, while I don’t think we should just walk every prospect into the first team, very clearly we are missing opportunities. If you’re to take the top 5 players (heck maybe 10) coming out of the GTA in the last 5 years, I bet none of those play for TFC. Our youth development has to get better and we sit in a market where it should be decent. And in no way to I mean that as let’s play the kids and become FCD. I mean let’s take the easy win here and actually use a small fraction of the talent that’s under our nose and actually do a good job developing it so it’s ready for the first team.

Well written and spot on post.

[Thrillos]

I just did some reading on the recent COL vs. LAG game, and I will say it just adds more fuel to the fire of our main issue being the coach and not the players overall. I still think Curtis has done us absolutely no favours with our squad as highlighted above, but where he royally screwed up was Armas. Arguably Perez as well, i know not everyone agrees with me on this one.

COL and LAG were both basement dwellers, they both were talked about having limited to no talent, and expensive players who were not performing as expected. Chicharito was considered a flop for example. Look at what two of our ex coaches have done with those two teams. COL is using Moor still in an incredibly stable defense, when we let him go because people thought he was too old.

I firmly believe that if we somehow had Vanney show back up when Armas was let go, we would be in a playoff spot right now. Not to say it isn't possible, more to say we really need a f'ing manager! ... and Curtis gone.

[Kamp Berg]

I just did some reading on the recent COL vs. LAG game, and I will say it just adds more fuel to the fire of our main issue being the coach and not the players overall. I still think Curtis has done us absolutely no favours with our squad as highlighted above, but where he royally screwed up was Armas. Arguably Perez as well, i know not everyone agrees with me on this one.

COL and LAG were both basement dwellers, they both were talked about having limited to no talent, and expensive players who were not performing as expected. Chicharito was considered a flop for example. Look at what two of our ex coaches have done with those two teams. COL is using Moor still in an incredibly stable defense, when we let him go because people thought he was too old.

I firmly believe that if we somehow had Vanney show back up when Armas was let go, we would be in a playoff spot right now. Not to say it isn't possible, more to say we really need a f'ing manager! ... and Curtis gone.

I’m still convinced Vanney wouldn’t have left so eagerly if MLSE wasn’t such a shitshow. I say MLSE and not TFC because if no one at the top really cares then why would those at the bottom?

[jloome]

Lareray, Morrow and auro. Any team would add them to their lineup

We have at CM in bradley, Delgado and Priso. Any team would add them to their lineup.

We have depth at CAM. Osorio, Deleon, and pozuelo. Any team would take them.

More arguable positions are wingers where soteldo, shaffelberg, achara, and endoh would likely make the 18 man lineup

We don’t have depth up top where only altidore and Akinola would make other rosters, no one would take Dwyer or Mullins.

CB again as stated we only have one that people would truly take. I MIGHT make the argument that gonazaelz might make the bench as the back up CB for most clubs. Similar to how Ciman was used by Vanney.

No team would take Justin Morrow except on a free because he's 35, his legs are tired enough that he can't play more than two games in a ten-day period (we sat him for just that reason) and there are younger options who are at least as good.

No team would take Michael Bradley because his legs are crocked. He can't cover the area of the field he needs to cover to be effective.

No team would take Nick DeLeon, because again, his history of injuries, his age and his general efficacy can all be had younger, cheaper.

They would take Delgado, but the way he's played for the last two seasons they probably shouldn't.

We have depth at right back, basically. That's it.

We don't have "depth at CAM" because Deleon isn't a CAM, he's a winger or a fullback, and we need Pozuelo and Osorio on the pitch. We don't have depth at left back, because Morrow isn't reliable game in and out. We don't have depth at center half because we only have one starter to begin with.

Striker and wingers, which is most of our offense, everyone concedes the point.

The only position we have depth at is number eight, assuming Delgado comes around and starts playing well again, as Osorio can deputize there. In fact, without Osorio being able to play multiple positions, we would be left with Delgado and Ralph Priso as the sole potential starters.

You think too much of guys whose best days are done. Morrow and Bradley are both that the point where they should retire, as is Gonzalez. Of the rest, the vast majority -- Mullins, DeLeon, Shaffelburg, Endoh, Dwyer -- wouldn't get a game at a competitive team in this league, let alone be signed.

(And in fact all but Shaffelburg WERE out of contract and no one else was signing them. Same with Zavaleta. We literally picked up the players no one else wanted.)

[Ultra & Proud]

I’m still convinced Vanney wouldn’t have left so eagerly if MLSE wasn’t such a shitshow. I say MLSE and not TFC because if no one at the top really cares then why would those at the bottom?

I partially agree but I think he saw the writing on the wall like Tata did at Atlanta. They recognized tough cap decisions had to be made, losing key players (more Atlanta than us) or being unable to add to the squad (that's us) was likely because of the cap, and thusly being forced to ride players who were aging with bad contracts would be the way (for us moreso than Atlanta).

At the point Vanney split he had a rebuild going on in either LA or TFC and with the contract situations and GM differences, He picked the better option.

[jloome]

COL and LAG were both basement dwellers, they both were talked about having limited to no talent, and expensive players who were not performing as expected.

This doesn't help your argument. Both Fraser and Vanney have completely rebuilt those rosters, to the tune of seventeen new players in LA over one season and fifteen in Colorado over two.

They didn't just start coaching shit teams and become good. They literally overhauled the rosters completely. So, no, it's clearly not just about the coaching or even anywhere close to that.

There's a full feature story on Vanney's rebuild on mlssoccer.com right now. I'd suggest reading it. Their roster was completely fucked and he's rebuilt it by getting rid of two-thirds of the players on contract.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/how-t...reg-vanney-era

[jabbronies]

I just did some reading on the recent COL vs. LAG game, and I will say it just adds more fuel to the fire of our main issue being the coach and not the players overall. I still think Curtis has done us absolutely no favours with our squad as highlighted above, but where he royally screwed up was Armas. Arguably Perez as well, i know not everyone agrees with me on this one.

COL and LAG were both basement dwellers, they both were talked about having limited to no talent, and expensive players who were not performing as expected. Chicharito was considered a flop for example. Look at what two of our ex coaches have done with those two teams. COL is using Moor still in an incredibly stable defense, when we let him go because people thought he was too old.

I firmly believe that if we somehow had Vanney show back up when Armas was let go, we would be in a playoff spot right now. Not to say it isn't possible, more to say we really need a f'ing manager! ... and Curtis gone.

Alex Ferguson took Man Utd to the PL title in 2012-13
in 2013-14 that same squad stumbled to 7th

There are a shit ton of other examples of this, even in MLS (ATL+Tato)

There is something to be said that both LAG and COL are successful on the backs of people that were leading our club. It took LAG, the league starlet, to raid us of Vanney, someone with success in the league, to figure it out.

With that being said - who does TFC get to do the same?

[Thrillos]

No team would take Justin Morrow except on a free because he's 35, his legs are tired enough that he can't play more than two games in a ten-day period (we sat him for just that reason) and there are younger options who are at least as good.

No team would take Michael Bradley because his legs are crocked. He can't cover the area of the field he needs to cover to be effective.

No team would take Nick DeLeon, because again, his history of injuries, his age and his general efficacy can all be had younger, cheaper.

They would take Delgado, but the way he's played for the last two seasons they probably shouldn't.

We have depth at right back, basically. That's it.

We don't have "depth at CAM" because Deleon isn't a CAM, he's a winger or a fullback, and we need Pozuelo and Osorio on the pitch. We don't have depth at left back, because Morrow isn't reliable game in and out. We don't have depth at center half because we only have one starter to begin with.

Striker and wingers, which is most of our offense, everyone concedes the point.

The only position we have depth at is number eight, assuming Delgado comes around and starts playing well again, as Osorio can deputize there. In fact, without Osorio being able to play multiple positions, we would be left with Delgado and Ralph Priso as the sole potential starters.

You think too much of guys whose best days are done. Morrow and Bradley are both that the point where they should retire, as is Gonzalez. Of the rest, the vast majority -- Mullins, DeLeon, Shaffelburg, Endoh, Dwyer -- wouldn't get a game at a competitive team in this league, let alone be signed.

(And in fact all but Shaffelburg WERE out of contract and no one else was signing them. Same with Zavaleta. We literally picked up the players no one else wanted.)

I think we will just have to agree to disagree with the perception of the players listed. I fundamentally disagree with you saying saying all of those players don't make someone else's roster. Just because Shaffelburg didn't get picked up doesnt mean he wouldn't make the roster, he is a young player from Canada, most teams won't go through the effort to move someone on small salary with those ties. But if you remove all of that, i definitely believe most teams slot him in as a player on their 18 man roster if they have a spot open.

Morrow for example has played well for us, he has had bad games or spells in a game but more because we don't have a damn system. All players are set up to look brutal when you don't have a damn system to play. I am not stuck to players whose best days are done because in no sane world do 80% of a teams roster turn to shit overnight. And I am sorry but any team would take Bradley on the bench in a heartbeat. We can play semantics on DeLeon's position, regardless though how do you not want someone of his caliber on your bench

Per today's MLSsoccer power rankings review...

"If last season had been a full 34-game schedule, Toronto’s points per game would have placed them at about 65 points for the year. This year, they’re on pace for 22. Right now, CF Montréal, the seventh-place team in the East, are on pace for 46 points. The 43-point gap between last year’s Toronto team and this year’s would be a playoff contender. You could say things are going poorly."

I am sorry, but the same roster (other than Soteldo for Piatti) got (essentially) 65 points last year. I struggle to see how anyone can think an entire roster individually went over a cliff in less 6 months. The data points to a complete lack of managing capability. Hell even as recently as April we dominated Leon before Armas had a chance to completely butcher our playing style and locker room mentality.

[Thrillos]

Alex Ferguson took Man Utd to the PL title in 2012-13
in 2013-14 that same squad stumbled to 7th

There are a shit ton of other examples of this, even in MLS (ATL+Tato)

There is something to be said that both LAG and COL are successful on the backs of people that were leading our club. It took LAG, the league starlet, to raid us of Vanney, someone with success in the league, to figure it out.

With that being said - who does TFC get to do the same?

This. This is what the main priority is before we even talk about moving a single player, or getting any new ones. The fact we have heard nothing about this search worries me immensely.

[Canary10]

This doesn't help your argument. Both Fraser and Vanney have completely rebuilt those rosters, to the tune of seventeen new players in LA over one season and fifteen in Colorado over two.

They didn't just start coaching shit teams and become good. They literally overhauled the rosters completely. So, no, it's clearly not just about the coaching or even anywhere close to that.

There's a full feature story on Vanney's rebuild on mlssoccer.com right now. I'd suggest reading it. Their roster was completely fucked and he's rebuilt it by getting rid of two-thirds of the players on contract.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/how-t...reg-vanney-era

Interesting article. Do you think TFC does this:

“There were a number of players from South America – Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay – whose names we put down as early priorities. The profiles of the players drives where we look. They could come from anywhere in the world, we’re just trying to be specific about where they are in the team.”

I'm guessing no. We see who is available and figure out how to fit them in a team.

[jabbronies]

We saw an instant difference because there was no other starting caliber CB other than Mavinga... You say it wasn't a bad decision then went about explaining how he tapered off and was just a short term solution. If Curtis thought it was a short term solution he would have signed another CB, except that contract handicapped us in getting another CB until his contract ran out. Why not just go get someone for the longer term, why not give Drew Moor a good contract and actually keep him. Sorry, it was a bad decision. Decision or 'vision' is just semantics to poor performance as a GM.

Agree with Vanney being able to plug holes, he was a good coach. Coaches in MLS have to be able to plug holes because live in a salary cap world.

Also, Vanney not benching Bradley as negative..? really?

He needed to find a CB in a pinch. He did. and it took us to the final and a 2nd place finish the next season. So yes, it wasn't a bad get.
Drew Moor wasn't capable to continue being the full time leader of the backline. He's isn't doing that now. So what makes you think he could be doing that for us now?

I stand by my comment of it not being a bad move - I don't believe his contract handcuffed us to getting someone better than him. Lots of other things handcuffed from getting another CB, but finances wasn't one of them

Incompetence? sure, but keep in mind finding a CB that can do what Drew Moor does is very very difficult. IMO - more difficult than finding someone who can put the ball in the back of the net. You know why - because there are not that many good players who choose to play that position. Everyone wants to be a striker, not everyone wants to be the stay at. home defender.

When teams get these leaders of the back line, they hold on to them for dear life as they are the backbone of the entire defence - not just the players labelled defenders - but the entire defensive aspect of a teams play.

[MikeForbes]

Ehh we’ve drifted to extremes here. Not my intent with the original comment to say we need to fly the flag and become a CANMNT finishing school.

But people need to keep in mind this whole league was created with developing American Players and Managers in mind. They stick with their own more often than we’d like to otherwise believe as often modest, self-effacing Canadians. I’ll stand by my comment Omar’s contract was supported by his passport, not his actual level of play. A player who was the butt of jokes and had lost his spot on a league slightly better than MLS was given a million dollar deal. Does that not sound off?

Similarly, while I don’t think we should just walk every prospect into the first team, very clearly we are missing opportunities. If you’re to take the top 5 players (heck maybe 10) coming out of the GTA in the last 5 years, I bet none of those play for TFC. Our youth development has to get better and we sit in a market where it should be decent. And in no way to I mean that as let’s play the kids and become FCD. I mean let’s take the easy win here and actually use a small fraction of the talent that’s under our nose and actually do a good job developing it so it’s ready for the first team.

I definitely woke up really cranky and took it out on this thread. Haha. I just want the best players available to put on the TFC kit. I really do not believe we are bad because we leaned towards player from the US. Are we so much better if we had MAK over Bradley or Delgado? I do not think so. We are bad because we aged out, got the coaching search completely wrong and made some mistakes on the TAM (Gallardo) and DP (Jozy) level.

[Auzzy]

I detect some hyperbole in this thread. In multiple directions.

[Kamp Berg]

I partially agree but I think he saw the writing on the wall like Tata did at Atlanta. They recognized tough cap decisions had to be made, losing key players (more Atlanta than us) or being unable to add to the squad (that's us) was likely because of the cap, and thusly being forced to ride players who were aging with bad contracts would be the way (for us moreso than Atlanta).

At the point Vanney split he had a rebuild going on in either LA or TFC and with the contract situations and GM differences, He picked the better option.

I do agree to some extant, except that I think Vanney recognized that the rebuild needed to start in 2019. And no, I don’t believe Gonzalez was an adequate choice because of his contract length. OG should have been a stop gap, not a solution, he had already lost too much quality.

[Thrillos]

He needed to find a CB in a pinch. He did. and it took us to the final and a 2nd place finish the next season. So yes, it wasn't a bad get.
Drew Moor wasn't capable to continue being the full time leader of the backline. He's isn't doing that now. So what makes you think he could be doing that for us now?

I stand by my comment of it not being a bad move - I don't believe his contract handcuffed us to getting someone better than him. Lots of other things handcuffed from getting another CB, but finances wasn't one of them

Incompetence? sure, but keep in mind finding a CB that can do what Drew Moor does is very very difficult. IMO - more difficult than finding someone who can put the ball in the back of the net. You know why - because there are not that many good players who choose to play that position. Everyone wants to be a striker, not everyone wants to be the stay at. home defender.

When teams get these leaders of the back line, they hold on to them for dear life as they are the backbone of the entire defence - not just the players labelled defenders - but the entire defensive aspect of a teams play.

I have come around to your thinking, thinking back, I was generally pleased with Omar for the first year. He gave us a bit of steadiness in the position, Mavinga was/is the pace.

Very much agree with the difficulty to fill that position, such a vital position as well.

[jloome]

I am sorry, but the same roster (other than Soteldo for Piatti) got (essentially) 65 points last year. I struggle to see how anyone can think an entire roster individually went over a cliff in less 6 months. The data points to a complete lack of managing capability. Hell even as recently as April we dominated Leon before Armas had a chance to completely butcher our playing style and locker room mentality.

A) you're ignoring the fact that both Colorado and LA Galaxy's resurgences came after rebuilding their squad.

b) Did you forget the part where we fell apart last year for a good chunk of the season, blew a nine-point supporter's shield run and went out in the first round of playoffs to an expansion team? That IS the data.

Vanney couldn't win with this roster without Pozuelo; Even with him, we were squeaking one-goal wins over and over. Our defense was already in trouble. It was the subject of frequent conversations on this board.

And there was zero chance of us winning anything last year once Pozuelo was out for a few games.

And YES, a year makes an enormous difference to players in their thirties. By your logic, no one would ever retire, because the year before was always better, suggesting this one could be, too.

Obviously we need a good coach and a good GM. But we also need a complete roster overhaul. Trying to "patch" this lineup and immediately contend will, at most, make us a middle-of-the-pack team. I don't know about anyone else but simply not being total shit is not a high enough goal, as far as I'm concerned.

[jloome]

Drew Moor wasn't capable to continue being the full time leader of the backline. He's isn't doing that now. So what makes you think he could be doing that for us now?

He started eight games this year then got injured. And he started for them for Three full seasons after leaving us, and did well. So clearly, he was capable of it. Whether he is now is sort of moot, given that we let him go in 2018. If not for injuring himself, he'd still be better than anyone we have starting other than Mavinga, who is one of the best athletes as a CB in the league.

I stand by my comment of it not being a bad move - I don't believe his contract handcuffed us to getting someone better than him.

Why don't you believe that? He's on 1.3M per season. As Matt Doyle pointed out that would pay for an entire back line at multiple clubs. He's insanely overpaid and we have very little cap space, so how is it possible that it's not "handcuffing" us?

I mean.... it won't be in six months, because it expires. But it sure has been since he got here. And even in his first year for us he ranged between mediocre and shit.

[Thrillos]

A) you're ignoring the fact that both Colorado and LA Galaxy's resurgences came after rebuilding their squad.

b) Did you forget the part where we fell apart last year for a good chunk of the season, blew a nine-point supporter's shield run and went out in the first round of playoffs to an expansion team? That IS the data.

Vanney couldn't win with this roster without Pozuelo; Even with him, we were squeaking one-goal wins over and over. Our defense was already in trouble. It was the subject of frequent conversations on this board.

And there was zero chance of us winning anything last year once Pozuelo was out for a few games.

And YES, a year makes an enormous difference to players in their thirties. By your logic, no one would ever retire, because the year before was always better, suggesting this one could be, too.

Obviously we need a good coach and a good GM. But we also need a complete roster overhaul. Trying to "patch" this lineup and immediately contend will, at most, make us a middle-of-the-pack team. I don't know about anyone else but simply not being total shit is not a high enough goal, as far as I'm concerned.

lol - I am, and have, been making the point that our main problems have been poor coaching since Vanney left. I say many times our roster is adequate, but by no means good enough for who TFC can and should be. This all comes down to Curtis as the GM and decision maker on coaching and overall roster. (the focus of the thread)

You can cherry pick a section of a season if you want, but in the end we finished with 65 points and in second place. Losing one game in a playoff doesn't set the standard for a season, sorry. Our players are not supporters shield worthy, but they are not wooden spoon worthy. We have a mid table roster with crap coaching... wooden spoon. Last year we had a mid table roster with top coaching... almost the the shield.

We don't need a roster overhaul, that just sets us back for longer. We need a manager to come in and massage the roster probably around 20%. Overhauls are why we spent the first 8 years of our existence as the laughing stock of the league. Season didn't go well... "overhaul and start from scratch!"

[jloome]

lol - I am, and have, been making the point that our main problems have been poor coaching since Vanney left. I say many times our roster is adequate, but by no means good enough for who TFC can and should be. This all comes down to Curtis as the GM and decision maker on coaching and overall roster. (the focus of the thread)

You can cherry pick a section of a season if you want, but in the end we finished with 65 points and in second place. Losing one game in a playoff doesn't set the standard for a season, sorry. Our players are not supporters shield worthy, but they are not wooden spoon worthy. We have a mid table roster with crap coaching... wooden spoon. Last year we had a mid table roster with top coaching... almost the the shield.

We don't need a roster overhaul, that just sets us back for longer. We need a manager to come in and massage the roster probably around 20%. Overhauls are why we spent the first 8 years of our existence as the laughing stock of the league. Season didn't go well... "overhaul and start from scratch!"

Okay we’re debating at cross purposes, because being a mid table team is of zero interest to me.

20% is six players. You think we’re only six players from being competitive?

No one said start over from scratch, but the idea that we’re six players from being competitive is woefully optimistic.

[Richard]

If the goal is to win the league we maybe have three starters who can get us there. Honestly, aside from a prospect like Priso anyone else not named Poz-Sot-Oso is replaceable. I'm having my doubts on Soteldo too, can dribble for days but I do not see enough end product, doesn't seem like a team player to me.

The league has transformed the last three years and Ali does not have ability to to get us players. This is why we keep resigning players nobody wants.

[jloome]

If the goal is to win the league we maybe have three starters who can get us there. Honestly, aside from a prospect like Priso anyone else not named Poz-Sot-Oso is replaceable. I'm having my doubts on Soteldo too, can dribble for days but I do not see enough end product, doesn't seem like a team player to me.

The league has transformed the last three years and Ali does not have ability to to get us players. This is why we keep resigning players nobody wants.

Yeah, agreed. He has the continual waft at this point, like Mo, of being someone they don't want to deal with.