View Poll Results: Curtis at TFC - on December 31, 2021

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  • In the same position as on August 31 - Odds: +160

    6 20.00%
  • Not in the same position - Odds: -180

    24 80.00%
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    Default Ali Curtis at TFC - on December 31, 2021

    I'm a betting guy for the last 21 years, making now in sports betting on yearly average about the same as in my regular, 8 hour job, so I can't stop myself doing this post.

    I am giving in this poll 2 odds (this is what I figured out) on what is the probability of Ali Curtis being in the same power position concerning TFC at 12 PM ET, on December 31, 2021 like he is right now, on August 31.

    For non bettors, the owerwhelming majority of this forum:

    -180 odds mean that if you bet (risk) $100, if your bet is a winner, you will be returned your $100 (your initial risk) + $55.55 (you winnings) = total $155.55
    +160 odds mean that if you bet (risk) $100, if your bet is a winner, you will be returned your $100 (your initial risk) + $160 (you winnings) = total $260

    So... post your bets!


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    Just curious, who voted on Curtis being still in same position - if you were serious or joking.
    Sure it can happen, after all, this is MLS, and as an extra, this is MLSE.

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    If Curtis is back next year I will be taking a break from following this team. There’s more than enough track record here to demonstrate he cannot do the job and is a poor fit for our market. It would be criminal to hand him the keys to this offseason with the flexibility we’ll have. I won’t waste my time watching a predictable and repeated failure.

    Similarly, I am borderline on Manning. I would prefer he was cleaned out too but I will hesitantly watch if he remains in the fold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaEatingYeti View Post
    Just curious, who voted on Curtis being still in same position - if you were serious or joking.
    Sure it can happen, after all, this is MLS, and as an extra, this is MLSE.

    That was me. I was serious. I don't see TFC going out and trying to get both a GM and a manager at the same time. Focus on getting a great manager and if the Team situation doesn't improve, you can sack the GM after that and then focus your search on that
    Last edited by jabbronies; 08-31-2021 at 09:48 AM.

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    I also voted in the same position but for the opposite reason to jabbronies; I just think they're all so archly incompetent that unless MLSE's board steps in, nothing will happen until they run out of COVID-related excuses for fans not showing up.

    Leaving the GM in while we look for a manager is insane, because our GM is clearly an idiot. Any new GM is also going to want to hire people below him, not take on a new manager the prior guy hired.

    We have serious, serious roster problems, from bad personnel choices to too much spending. We have a youth program that produces nothing for its cost, making the training center that much harder to justify. We have front office that ceased communicating with the public on any meaningful level four years ago.

    It's a shit show from top to bottom, which likely means we'll either see the board pay attention and clean house, or assume they'll be late to act, because Manning won't fire the guy he just renewed (this isn't Houston; between their GM's renewal and his firing six months later, they got a new owner, who made the call) and the board does not pay attention to fine detail.

    The board is probably not aware that even when he was rookie of the year and an LA DP, Omar was known to have shit positioning skills, evidenced by his continual decline since losing his partnership with Delagarza. LA fans CHEERED when he left for Mexico, and each club in Mexico cheered when he moved onto the next. The only two people in MLS who didn't know this, it seems, were Ali Curtis and Bill Manning, so I don't expect the people above them to know it. I would give odds Vanney didn't want to spend $1.3M a year on him.

    If the board was actually paying attention, we'd have a communications department fighting hard day in and out to promote the team. Hell, just re-signing Zavaleta, despite his profligate incompetence, should've sent smoke signals towards anyone actually paying attention. And even under Mo there was less silence than now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaEatingYeti View Post
    I'm a betting guy for the last 21 years, making now in sports betting on yearly average about the same as in my regular, 8 hour job, so I can't stop myself doing this post.

    I am giving in this poll 2 odds (this is what I figured out) on what is the probability of Ali Curtis being in the same power position concerning TFC at 12 PM ET, on December 31, 2021 like he is right now, on August 31.

    For non bettors, the owerwhelming majority of this forum:

    -180 odds mean that if you bet (risk) $100, if your bet is a winner, you will be returned your $100 (your initial risk) + $55.55 (you winnings) = total $155.55
    +160 odds mean that if you bet (risk) $100, if your bet is a winner, you will be returned your $100 (your initial risk) + $160 (you winnings) = total $260

    So... post your bets!

    I think some have suggested on these boards that Ali Curtis may not even have the same power anymore, especially after Chris Armas was let go. I just wonder if it's Bill Manning that's really calling all the shots now on the technical side of it, and Curtis is really just a puppet in there - i.e. making suggestions, looking over the final details of contracts, etc.

    I feel what really needs to happen is for Manning to be removed altogether from the technical side of things (I do think though he's a great business person - so keep him on that side of it), and have setups similar to what they have in Montreal & Vancouver. Where Oliver Renard and Axel Schuster, their respective "sporting directors", seems to have done reasonably well, up to now at least, in bringing their teams to the middle of the pack in the league, after having literally bottomed out the past few seasons.

    The problem though is that the MLSE board probably doesn't know any of this, whom I suspect is who Manning reports to.

    Also, during half-time of the Van-RSL game on Sunday, I somewhat recall Schuster mentioning on TSN that for their next head coach, they expect someone that will be able to work with the team already in place, and also will act as a link between the first team and the academy - somewhere along those lines. If someone can point out a link to that interview, I'd love to rewatch it, as some of it could very much well be examples of what tfc should be doing it too.
    Last edited by spe18; 08-31-2021 at 09:21 PM.

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    Curtis has had my prerequisite 3 transfer windows to show what he can do, and the team has grown progressively worse during that period. I don't see how he can stay.

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    While Manning has some shared responsibility for the decisions that were made, he's said many times that decisions are made as a team. If that's true, and I believe him that it's true, the quality of the other team members is of prime importance. Since Manning is the one with the decision-making power to push the eject button, I expect Curtis to take the fall, not Manning.

    Last edited by Oldtimer; 08-31-2021 at 01:14 PM.


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    This already happened. Ali was functionally fired the day Jozy returned.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Just to pinpoint the exact moment

    If its true that Manning first touched base with Jozy the Sunday evening after Armas was fired, then Ali was functionally let go at the point on the night after that DCU debacle when Manning said "We are done here" about Armas. The video announcement of the Armas firing on the Sunday pretty much indicated that had happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    This already happened. Ali was functionally fired the day Jozy returned.
    If you use the transfer tacker tag on mlssoccer, we're literally the only club that hasn't made a move of any type -- loan, signing, release, transfer -- in three months.

    Vancouver has loaned out three youth players to int'l clubs and signed Marcus Godinho on a free. Montreal has made multiple moves.

    Either he's completely handcuffed, or the roster has zero flexibility or both. Either way, I'd say he's truly fucked at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    If you use the transfer tacker tag on mlssoccer, we're literally the only club that hasn't made a move of any type -- loan, signing, release, transfer -- in three months.

    Vancouver has loaned out three youth players to int'l clubs and signed Marcus Godinho on a free. Montreal has made multiple moves.

    Either he's completely handcuffed, or the roster has zero flexibility or both. Either way, I'd say he's truly fucked at this point.
    he's just useless, so lack of action could just be incompetence.

    however, i reckon the jozy/ armas fiasco was the end of him functionally as a GM, will be moved on quietly after the season.

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    Just here to point out Patrick Vieira got his first Premier League win today. Crystal Palace with good and consistent performances so far this year. Not that Vieira was ever realistically in the running, but makes Curtis’ coaching decision look worse nonetheless.

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    He gone.

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    I voted that he’ll still be here mainly because I don’t believe the incompetence stops with him. There’s some deep rot at the club right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    I voted that he’ll still be here mainly because I don’t believe the incompetence stops with him. There’s some deep rot at the club right now.
    You're perfectly right that the incompetence does not stop with him.

    In my view the big problem is that it not stops even with Manning, because the deep rot is in the MLSE board as far as TFC is concerned - in the form of not caring enough about losing even $7-8 millions per season with this team, losing fans, etc.
    Because together with the Argos, TFC are considered probably so insignificant compared to the Leafs and Raps, that the glorious MLSE board does not give a flying fart about them.

    OK, maybe I'm too angry, but no way isn't a good chunk of truth in this...

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    Can someone explain to me how red bulls reject Curtis still has a job this morning? How much more worse must we sink, how much more humiliation suffered...all while with the highest payroll in the MLS, before he is fired?

    PS how does Manning still have a job also? He hired his incompetent buddy Curtis, why is he not accountable for this absolute s.hit show?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    Can someone explain to me how red bulls reject Curtis still has a job this morning? How much more worse must we sink, how much more humiliation suffered...all while with the highest payroll in the MLS, before he is fired?

    PS how does Manning still have a job also? He hired his incompetent buddy Curtis, why is he not accountable for this absolute s.hit show?
    Board of MLSE doesn't pay attention.

    So, if not for Oso's five goals in all contests, our leading scorer this season would be... Ayo Akinola, with three. Despite the fact that he's been out for more than half the season.

    It's a mockery of their fanbase, their paying customers, that these men are still in leadership roles.

    The league has changed and grown rapidly over the last five years, but we've actually gotten progressively weaker for three seasons.

    The reason we lose so much is that we're a bad team, with an uncompetitive roster. The old model of having one starter and then interchangeable MLS 1.0 backups, NCAA guys who weren't good enough to get a look in their teens, is basically dead.

    Every good team in this league has multiple guys competing for each spot. We've NEVER had that.

    We were a good team when a team in this league could win with the most expensive three DPs, period. Those days are over and we not only haven't adjusted, we've replaced strong depth with weaker, more expensive depth. It's a travesty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Board of MLSE doesn't pay attention.

    So, if not for Oso's five goals in all contests, our leading scorer this season would be... Ayo Akinola, with three. Despite the fact that he's been out for more than half the season.

    It's a mockery of their fanbase, their paying customers, that these men are still in leadership roles.

    The league has changed and grown rapidly over the last five years, but we've actually gotten progressively weaker for three seasons.

    The reason we lose so much is that we're a bad team, with an uncompetitive roster. The old model of having one starter and then interchangeable MLS 1.0 backups, NCAA guys who weren't good enough to get a look in their teens, is basically dead.

    Every good team in this league has multiple guys competing for each spot. We've NEVER had that.

    We were a good team when a team in this league could win with the most expensive three DPs, period. Those days are over and we not only haven't adjusted, we've replaced strong depth with weaker, more expensive depth. It's a travesty.
    That goals scored stat is dire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Board of MLSE doesn't pay attention.

    So, if not for Oso's five goals in all contests, our leading scorer this season would be... Ayo Akinola, with three. Despite the fact that he's been out for more than half the season.

    It's a mockery of their fanbase, their paying customers, that these men are still in leadership roles.

    The league has changed and grown rapidly over the last five years, but we've actually gotten progressively weaker for three seasons.

    The reason we lose so much is that we're a bad team, with an uncompetitive roster. The old model of having one starter and then interchangeable MLS 1.0 backups, NCAA guys who weren't good enough to get a look in their teens, is basically dead.

    Every good team in this league has multiple guys competing for each spot. We've NEVER had that.

    We were a good team when a team in this league could win with the most expensive three DPs, period. Those days are over and we not only haven't adjusted, we've replaced strong depth with weaker, more expensive depth. It's a travesty.

    Out of curiosity, which teams have players competing for each and every spot. I don't know of a single one, and that includes Seattle and the Revs....

    We need a goal scorer, centre back, and a real Manager. That would make us competitive overnight. Curtis brought in Omar to replace Moor, bad move. He didn't replace or bring in a suitable back-up for Jozy due to likely injuries, then he hired a brutal coach. This is how incompetence in the GM position can tank a championship caliber team in less than a season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrillos View Post
    Curtis brought in Omar to replace Moor, bad move.
    I don't think it was a bad decision.

    Omar was only 31 years old when he was brought in. We saw an instant difference in our game when he was brought in, and Vanney was able to continue that success for an additional season. When Omar was brought in - I said that this move bought us time to go and get a younger replacement. At least 2 years of solid work before we'd be back in the position we were in with Drew - and that's pretty much true.

    The issue with Omar is that Curtis thought he was a longer term solution. He and Bradley have aged poorly these past 2 seasons and this really created a hole in the center of the defensive end. Curtis didn't plan well for this situation, which I think a lot of us saw coming. I blame Curtis for his lack of vision, not his selection on this one.

    This wouldn't have been as bad if Vanney was still around. That guy knew how to plug holes with what he had. He would've found a way to make this work (Delgado/Oso double pivot)

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    Vanney was scared of benching Michael Bradley too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    Vanney was scared of benching Michael Bradley too.
    ya there's that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    I don't think it was a bad decision.

    Omar was only 31 years old when he was brought in. We saw an instant difference in our game when he was brought in, and Vanney was able to continue that success for an additional season. When Omar was brought in - I said that this move bought us time to go and get a younger replacement. At least 2 years of solid work before we'd be back in the position we were in with Drew - and that's pretty much true.

    The issue with Omar is that Curtis thought he was a longer term solution. He and Bradley have aged poorly these past 2 seasons and this really created a hole in the center of the defensive end. Curtis didn't plan well for this situation, which I think a lot of us saw coming. I blame Curtis for his lack of vision, not his selection on this one.

    This wouldn't have been as bad if Vanney was still around. That guy knew how to plug holes with what he had. He would've found a way to make this work (Delgado/Oso double pivot)
    We saw an instant difference because there was no other starting caliber CB other than Mavinga... You say it wasn't a bad decision then went about explaining how he tapered off and was just a short term solution. If Curtis thought it was a short term solution he would have signed another CB, except that contract handicapped us in getting another CB until his contract ran out. Why not just go get someone for the longer term, why not give Drew Moor a good contract and actually keep him. Sorry, it was a bad decision. Decision or 'vision' is just semantics to poor performance as a GM.

    Agree with Vanney being able to plug holes, he was a good coach. Coaches in MLS have to be able to plug holes because live in a salary cap world.

    Also, Vanney not benching Bradley as negative..? really?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrillos View Post
    Out of curiosity, which teams have players competing for each and every spot. I don't know of a single one, and that includes Seattle and the Revs....

    We need a goal scorer, centre back, and a real Manager. That would make us competitive overnight. Curtis brought in Omar to replace Moor, bad move. He didn't replace or bring in a suitable back-up for Jozy due to likely injuries, then he hired a brutal coach. This is how incompetence in the GM position can tank a championship caliber team in less than a season.
    Seattle had five starters out, including two DPs, their leading scorer and their goalkeeper, for nearly half the season. And they lost twice during that period. If that's not players competing for spots, I'm not sure what is.

    I didn't mean players of equivalent value, I meant players competing for their spot.

    Our second string is never going to be as strong as our first, because it isn't at any club on Earth. But the players behind the starters at least have to be able to play at a competitive enough level to keep the first team competitive. That's what competing for spots is, having relevant second string players. Not having two first teams.

    New England lost a guy on pace to shatter the league assist record and didn't slow a whit. NYFC is as deep as Seattle, and almost every other team in the east at least has a few guys on the bench who could start at other clubs.

    We have ZERO competitive depth. Every guy we bring in makes us inestimably weaker. That's what not having competing players means.

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    I would say Omar has never been “great” only comparatively better than the void he filled at the time he was brought in.

    He was being driven out of Mexico for being too slow and it wasn’t long before we saw signs of that here. When we played our toughest opponents in 2019, you could see teams begin to isolate him and his lumbering pace being an issue. He has only become more slow since then.

    This was a criminally bad signing. He’s close to the highest paid CB in MLS and plays nothing like it. We waited 6 months just to bring him in.

    I would call this “Exhibit A” of management’s USMNT beer goggles. Any other player with that track record and a different passport would have gotten $300k tops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    We have ZERO competitive depth. Every guy we bring in makes us inestimably weaker. That's what not having competing players means.
    To add to this, we seem to mostly dismiss the concept of playing for your place and generating competition in spots where we have the opportunity to.

    Everyone needs to be taken down a peg and it’s legitimate “play-for-your-spot-next-year” time. I would put almost everyone on this team in the shop window, it’s time for a full rebuild.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Board of MLSE doesn't pay attention.

    So, if not for Oso's five goals in all contests, our leading scorer this season would be... Ayo Akinola, with three. Despite the fact that he's been out for more than half the season.

    It's a mockery of their fanbase, their paying customers, that these men are still in leadership roles.

    The league has changed and grown rapidly over the last five years, but we've actually gotten progressively weaker for three seasons.

    The reason we lose so much is that we're a bad team, with an uncompetitive roster. The old model of having one starter and then interchangeable MLS 1.0 backups, NCAA guys who weren't good enough to get a look in their teens, is basically dead.

    Every good team in this league has multiple guys competing for each spot. We've NEVER had that.

    We were a good team when a team in this league could win with the most expensive three DPs, period. Those days are over and we not only haven't adjusted, we've replaced strong depth with weaker, more expensive depth. It's a travesty.
    Sadly, and unfortunately, correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I would say Omar has never been “great” only comparatively better than the void he filled at the time he was brought in.

    He was being driven out of Mexico for being too slow and it wasn’t long before we saw signs of that here. When we played our toughest opponents in 2019, you could see teams begin to isolate him and his lumbering pace being an issue. He has only become more slow since then.

    This was a criminally bad signing. He’s close to the highest paid CB in MLS and plays nothing like it. We waited 6 months just to bring him in.

    I would call this “Exhibit A” of management’s USMNT beer goggles.
    Any other player with that track record and a different passport would have gotten $300k tops.
    spot on

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    spot on
    Spot on, seconded!

    I would go even more far, saying that I never want to have any more USNMT former or actual players as TFC DP's!
    In the US and Canada soccer world the USMNT is vastly overrated as far as their position in the World is considered, and probably will be for many more decades. But in fact on the World scene is a no name, average team. DP-s from USMNT will be IMO always a lot more overpaid at TFC than other nation's MNT players.

 

 

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