Use Your Voice

[jabbronies]

The simple way to look at this is that Bill Manning took over a team that was arguably the best in league history, and five years later, after spending millions, it is the worst in the league, with a terribly unbalanced roster that cannot defend or score.

No he didn't take over the best team in MLS.
He took over a team that spent a shit ton of cash the year before and then in 2015 when he took over were 6th in conference (12th overall). We got bumped in the first playoff game by Montreal?

Are you saying he just sat on his ass from 2015 - 2018 and did jack shit until Tim Bez left?
- He had nothing to do with shoring up the defence by bringing in Drew Moor and Steven Beitshore?
- He had nothing to do with brining in Victor Vazquez who would ignite our offence and win us the treble?

Then when Bez left;
- He had nothing to do with replacing an aging league MVP with a younger League MVP in Pozuelo?
- He had nothing to do with rebuilding the 2019 team that went to the MLS cup final after an embarrassing previous season?
- He had nothing to do with with finishing 2nd last year

And y'all think he should be fired because he only decided to start working in 2021....

He fucked up the manager change - I don't blame him because he is trying to replace a guy who IMO will be seen as one of the best managers in MLS history. Someone please point to a legitimate, 100% sure fire thing replacement that we missed out on. And don't name some random USL manager who has potential and finished mid table because that's just a bullshit gamble. Oh - Atlanta would like to know the answer as well because they faced a similar issue when Tato left. And LAG, the league starlet, had to steal our manager in order to show face again.

At least he recognized it and pivoted immediately. He didn't let a Preki situation happen. So let's give credit there at least.
It's similar to Tim L signing a big bloody deal and a big bloody bust - realizing they were not the right moves and flipping them for Jozy and Seba a year later.

[Ultra & Proud]

The simple way to look at this is that Bill Manning took over a team that was arguably the best in league history, and five years later, after spending millions, it is the worst in the league, with a terribly unbalanced roster that cannot defend or score.

On top of the points jabbronies made, it's not as if we went on steep decline from 2017 to today. We made the final is 2019 and finished 2nd last season. Your phrasing makes it seem like we went off a cliff as soon as he was hired.

The two (maybe 3) biggest errors Manning has made are:

1) hiring and moreso trusting Curtis and his timelines
2) not refreshing the roster earlier and continuing to ride that 2017 core too long (biggest error)
3) allowing Curtis to hire Armas but that probably should fall under #1

Does he he deserve blame? Yes, for sure. Does he need to be sacked? No, he should have earned himself a chance to correct things this offseason. But if he hires a dud GM this offseason and we get a Wynalda or someone as manager then he's done.

[Oldtimer]

Agreed, I don't see the rational behind the "replace Manning" narrative. We've got someone who is an actual soccer suit in the position, people forget that we used to have a guy (Tom Anselmi) who was a hockey and condo guy in charge of TFC. Anyone at Manning's level is allowed to make a mistake, I'm sure he'll do due diligence before the next hire. Neither he nor MLSE is willing to have a bottom-feeder team.

Also US Soccer is filled with acquaintances and friendships. It would be hard for him to hire someone within the league that he doesn't know. Alternatively if he goes foreign, it's pretty hard for him to attract a quality foreign coach who isn't just going to use the club for a couple of years as a resume booster for a return overseas. The ones that don't work out (who are many) really don't work out, and the ones that do are gone in 2 years.

[jabbronies]

1) hiring and moreso trusting Curtis and his timelines
2) not refreshing the roster earlier and continuing to ride that 2017 core too long (biggest error)

I think the "Timelines" portion of your list is very important here. I think the club is slow at doing things

Omar Gonzalez
- The search for a Drew Moor replacement should've happened at the end of the 2018 season. It wasn't and the search for a Seba replacement and mini rebuild got in the way of that. Omar Gonzalez was a great rental option. It bought us an extra 1-2 years to find that CB leader. But Curtis' biggest downfall is his slow movements. We should've had someone in place to start this season. I don't doubt we'll find someone in this offseason - but it's a season too late.

MB4
- Grooming his replacement should've started when he also got injured and it wasn't. Now that replacement is playing in Columbus and the next guy up is 19 and injured. Who does this fall on? Vanney for not grooming Faiser properly or Manning/Curtis for not shipping off the captain of the team earlier? I would say the former. You can't just get rid of Bradley like that. You have to look at him like how we used Cheyrou. He should be here until retirement, similar to cheyrou's path.

Jozy
This is tricky and IMO hindsight is always 20/20
- Jan 2019 there was a legit offer for seba; was there a legit offer for Jozy? if yes, then we gambled on the wrong player.
- Losing Seba but gaining Poz (MVP for MVP) was good
- Losing Jozy and gaining Poz would've been better.
- the problem can be fixed by buying out Jozy and bringing in a proper DP striker (which means Ayo and Achara are possibly spare parts depending on the formation we roll with)

[jabbronies]

With that being said the club has been quick on other things:


Richie
We needed a WB - we got a WB

Soteldo
Previously we got VV after we had the fire power - we've done it in the opposite order now where we now have Soteldo before getting the fire power.

Lawrence
Morrow replacement. Done before things got real bad at LB

[Ultra & Proud]

MB4
- Grooming his replacement should've started when he also got injured and it wasn't. Now that replacement is playing in Columbus and the next guy up is 19 and injured. Who does this fall on? Vanney for not grooming Faiser properly or Manning/Curtis for not shipping off the captain of the team earlier? I would say the former. You can't just get rid of Bradley like that. You have to look at him like how we used Cheyrou. He should be here until retirement, similar to cheyrou's path.

Fraser was never going to be that replacement. Even the Crew have him at CB and he is a bit too static for even that. There would be no way to groom Fraser to be an effective DM in MLS. He is just way, way too slow and poor defensively.

The replacement is Osorio and that's clear. The problem is that managers keep believing he is some sort of high efficiency AM and he isn't. He eas excellent in that position last year when Bradley was out. He was totally earning that TAM pricetag. He should be the next Bradley in position as well as captaincy. Sad thing is that him & Mullins are the only two players who make legit runs towards the goal mouth but sometimes you have sacrifice these things.

[jloome]

On top of the points jabbronies made, it's not as if we went on steep decline from 2017 to today. We made the final is 2019 and finished 2nd last season. Your phrasing makes it seem like we went off a cliff as soon as he was hired.

The two (maybe 3) biggest errors Manning has made are:

1) hiring and moreso trusting Curtis and his timelines
2) not refreshing the roster earlier and continuing to ride that 2017 core too long (biggest error)
3) allowing Curtis to hire Armas but that probably should fall under #1

Does he he deserve blame? Yes, for sure. Does he need to be sacked? No, he should have earned himself a chance to correct things this offseason. But if he hires a dud GM this offseason and we get a Wynalda or someone as manager then he's done.

That seems fair. But there's no doubt he has a dud GM right now. He deserves the offseason, but he hasn't even sacked the guy yet. And when he hired him, he ignored a whole lot of warning signs. When he gave the guy a contract extension on the back of us flailing last year without roster improvements, that also seems pretty shortsighted. Then... Armas, who truly looked out of his depth at NY.

So while people can yell "it wasn't just Bez" about the good moves that preceded all this, it probably bears at least some notice that once Bez left, there didn't seem to be any stabilizing hand keeping that consistency going.

Before Curtis/Armas: mostly smart personnel moves. After: mostly insufficient or unsuccessful.

Maybe naming him Argos prez as well was a mistake. Because his eye has most definitely not been on the ball over the last three seasons.

[Ultra & Proud]

That seems fair. But there's no doubt he has a dud GM right now. He deserves the offseason, but he hasn't even sacked the guy yet. And when he hired him, he ignored a whole lot of warning signs. When he gave the guy a contract extension on the back of us flailing last year without roster improvements, that also seems pretty shortsighted. Then... Armas, who truly looked out of his depth at NY.

So while people can yell "it wasn't just Bez" about the good moves that preceded all this, it probably bears at least some notice that once Bez left, there didn't seem to be any stabilizing hand keeping that consistency going.

Before Curtis/Armas: mostly smart personnel moves. After: mostly insufficient or unsuccessful.

Maybe naming him Argos prez as well was a mistake. Because his eye has most definitely not been on the ball over the last three seasons.

Bez might be the guy that started us on the road to being unbalanced and having too many long, expensive contracts. Most of the questionable contracts we have now were doled out during his time minus Jozy of course (the worst one). However this current issue started with him at the helm and he seems to be doing the same thing in Columbus now. Just faster.

[OgtheDim]

Fraser was never going to be that replacement. Even the Crew have him at CB and he is a bit too static for even that. There would be no way to groom Fraser to be an effective DM in MLS. He is just way, way too slow and poor defensively.

The replacement is Osorio and that's clear. ...

Priso ...next season unfortunately...but that game against NER showed it is going to be Priso.

[Ultra & Proud]

Priso ...next season unfortunately...but that game against NER showed it is going to be Priso.

Could be Priso but he needs to show more consistency and passing vision to be the day in day out guy besides, he has wheels so he really should take Delgado's box to box spot before shuttling him back to be a DM.

Then we could move Delgado on for some allocation $$$ and save $600K at the same time.

[jabbronies]

Before Curtis/Armas: mostly smart personnel moves. After: mostly insufficient or unsuccessful..

You're kidding right? Over a span of 3 years (2014 - 2017) we had some gems come in to build that Treble team. Some cunning moves and Lots of luck

But don't make it seem like it was flawless times , just to name a few:

- Eriq Zavaleta - still stuck with this one , although he's a lot cheaper now so I guess that's something)
- Ahmed Kantari
- Ager Aketxe
- Hérculez Gómez
- Jackson
- Gilberto
- Collen Warner
- Replacing Steven Beitashour with GREGORY FUCKING VAN DER WEIL
- Jermaine Defoe wasn't the starlet we all hoped for