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Thread: Use Your Voice

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    Default Use Your Voice

    It is obvious to anyone watching versus Miami tonight - that not only do the players know they have no chance of catching a playoff spot - but more than a few have quit

    This team needs a complete over haul - younger and faster with some veteran leadership in the back line

    Is Ali Curtis the man you want going forward in this crucial time?

    Use your voice to TFC - Let them know you are undecided about renewal for next year if a change is not made

    Tweet TCC at.... @TorontoFC
    Loyal - Win, lose or draw!

    Weston, Ontario

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loyal View Post
    It is obvious to anyone watching versus Miami tonight - that not only do the players know they have no chance of catching a playoff spot - but more than a few have quit

    This team needs a complete over haul - younger and faster with some veteran leadership in the back line

    Is Ali Curtis the man you want going forward in this crucial time?

    Use your voice to TFC - Let them know you are undecided about renewal for next year if a change is not made

    Tweet TCC at.... @TorontoFC
    Certainly agree, some of this team certainly has checked out. The York match, the first ever true Toronto derby will be telling. No doubt Jim, in his return to BMO Field. will have his boy motivated for it. Now will Javier, thats a big question that needs to be answered?

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    We’re the Skalbania Allouettes, all burned out formerly hungry players who think they’re better than the league they play in.

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    My voice is this
    This is a sad year for TFC
    Like you said the players have stopped trying
    If the players donít care anymore why should I care?

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    At this point there's no way they'll do any changes until the off season and even if they did, it would still be a mess. It's better to just let it all burn to the ground and start from scratch from the top down.

    Just polish up that wooden spoon for us and make Curtis accept it on one of those TFC fluff piece Tweets they push out that no one wants to see while we're garbage.

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    Curtis must go number one priority.
    Top class GM replacement step two.
    Let go of ALL of the deadwood leaving a nucleus of 6/7 first team players.
    Real talent is needed now in MLS not has beens and never wases.
    The coaching at the Academy level has to be improved 100%.
    Also a top coach is needed to take us back to ‘17 level.
    If non of this is done we are mediocre for the duration.

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    In a perfect world both Manning and Curtis are gone at the end of the year. I feel sorry for Perez in one way because he was put in a difficult spot taking over the team from Armas, however he has made some choices that have just boggled my mind and his resistance to consistently make subs is frustrating.

    In my opinion those that should remain with the team going forward are split into 2 groups, 1 being the more veteran core and the 2nd being the kids. For the veteran core the only players that I am willing to bring back at the moment are Akinola, Laryea, Lawrence, Mavinga, Osorio, Pozuelo, Soteldo. I did not include Bono or Westberg because I feel we should keep 1, but I will let you pick your poison there. As for the kids I would hang onto Priso, Marshall-Ruttty, Nelson, Okello, Perruzza Romeo and Shaffelburg. Priso is a lock for a starting spot next season and as for the rest I need to see more before I make up my mind.

    Jozy, he is and always will be a club legend but it is time to move on. Bradley should move to either a coaching role or into the academy. The rest I think we should move on from. As for the rest of this year, I am keeping whatever money I have and will watch the remaining games from home. If they cannot be bothered to show up for the game why should I. I love this team but I am not going to sit in the stands and be spoon fed this trash. I will save the 2 hour travel time and watch from afar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blindside16 View Post
    Bradley should move to either a coaching role or into the academy.
    I think what LAFC does with his Dad will determine a lot. I am expecting him to get the sack when they bomb out again and I wouldn't be surprised to see Manning hire him as GM or dual role to start with Michael as his assistant. He checks all the current FO's boxes (USMNT & MLS connections, probably at least an acquiantance, keep Bradley happy).

    I'd rather not do this and go full scorched Earth and start over but this is something I could see happening.

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    I may be wrong, but I don't see Bob Bradley coming to Toronto. He's a west coast man. Vancouver, Seattle, maybe Portland. Not Toronto.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I think what LAFC does with his Dad will determine a lot. I am expecting him to get the sack when they bomb out again and I wouldn't be surprised to see Manning hire him as GM or dual role to start with Michael as his assistant. He checks all the current FO's boxes (USMNT & MLS connections, probably at least an acquiantance, keep Bradley happy).

    I'd rather not do this and go full scorched Earth and start over but this is something I could see happening.
    Ooof, no thanks.

    Bobís not the worst coach Iíve ever seen but nothing about this is aspirational

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    I may be wrong, but I don't see Bob Bradley coming to Toronto. He's a west coast man. Vancouver, Seattle, maybe Portland. Not Toronto.
    Was in the distant past but he put in time at DC, Chicago, & NY.

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    And he's from New Jersey and still has a home there.

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    I bet that if LAFC sacks Bob and Manning decides to keep Curtis as GM then Bradley will be offered the Manager and probably Technical Director positions. This is a right up their alley type of hire.

    We can blame Manning for it now but we became very USMNT-centric since Lieweke arrived & Vanney became manager.

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    The issues we have are a combination of things:

    - Players aging out (This should never happen, solely a Curtis fault IMO)

    - Players too complacent due to lack of competition for spots (Not enough talent coming up? no motivation from a proper manager?)

    - Not having a proper manager (Perez is an assistant, not a manager - This is both a Manning and Curtis fault)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I bet that if LAFC sacks Bob and Manning decides to keep Curtis as GM then Bradley will be offered the Manager and probably Technical Director positions. This is a right up their alley type of hire.

    We can blame Manning for it now but we became very USMNT-centric since Lieweke arrived & Vanney became manager.
    If Curtis does go. I wouldnt mind taking a run at the Irish guy, Padraig Smith, running Colorado. Seems to be a shrewd roster builder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    - Players too complacent due to lack of competition for spots (Not enough talent coming up? no motivation from a proper manager?)

    - Not having a proper manager (Perez is an assistant, not a manager - This is both a Manning and Curtis fault)
    I think the complacency goes beyond that. Vanney didn't trust or use any of the young players so a vet could shit the bed all season like Zavaleta or VDW and still get a run out over a younger player. It changed a bit under Armas but it's back again under Perez. All signs point to needing new leadership off the pitch and on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I think the complacency goes beyond that. Vanney didn't trust or use any of the young players so a vet could shit the bed all season like Zavaleta or VDW and still get a run out over a younger player. It changed a bit under Armas but it's back again under Perez. All signs point to needing new leadership off the pitch and on it.
    I don't know - Perez was quick to drop Bradley and Jozy. I bet if he had the players, he'd drop others as well.
    With that being said - he's not a manager. He's a caretaker. I hope he sticks with the club because he clearly has good ideas. But we need a proper manager.

    As for Curtis - My issue with him is he's too slow. Needs to get things done quicker.

    Manning - maybe I'm blind, but I wouldn't can him yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    I don't know - Perez was quick to drop Bradley and Jozy. I bet if he had the players, he'd drop others as well.
    With that being said - he's not a manager. He's a caretaker. I hope he sticks with the club because he clearly has good ideas. But we need a proper manager.

    As for Curtis - My issue with him is he's too slow. Needs to get things done quicker.

    Manning - maybe I'm blind, but I wouldn't can him yet.
    Perez did drop Bradley & Jozy but generally he chooses vets over youth. For instance when our offense is stagnant and nobody is running, he often chooses DeLeon over Schaff. At this point I guarantee if we tossed out the youth squad like we did against Leon in CCL this spring we would compete better than we are now. We'd probably lose due to errors but at least we would compete.

    Curtis is too slow and too absent to stick around. Things happen fast here and we're entering full rebuild mode and you can't have Snoozy Ali at the helm trying to run a rebuild in a single offseason. It would take him 5 years to swap out & replace the dead weight we have.

    Manning is staying as he is a high up MLSE guy and his main errors were hiring/trusting his buddy Curtis to be GM and for being not as hands on as needed with Ali as GM. He needs a Lagerway type guy to run the show so he can go focus on the Argos and condos, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Perez did drop Bradley & Jozy but generally he chooses vets over youth. For instance when our offense is stagnant and nobody is running, he often chooses DeLeon over Schaff. At this point I guarantee if we tossed out the youth squad like we did against Leon in CCL this spring we would compete better than we are now. We'd probably lose due to errors but at least we would compete.
    Ya I don't know what to say about that. I think he was trying to save the season, so that's why he was playing vets. We needed results. But now that it doesn't matter, we'll see what he does. I just wonder if in their eyes if they see that it's over, or are they going to "fight" til it's actually mathematically over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Curtis is too slow and too absent to stick around. Things happen fast here and we're entering full rebuild mode and you can't have Snoozy Ali at the helm trying to run a rebuild in a single offseason. It would take him 5 years to swap out & replace the dead weight we have.
    Ya he's too slow. I think he has the ability to identify good talent, I just don't think he can do it as fast as we need it to happen. Like I feel like this rebuild should take 1-2 seasons - but he would need 5.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Manning is staying as he is a high up MLSE guy and his main errors were hiring/trusting his buddy Curtis to be GM and for being not as hands on as needed with Ali as GM. He needs a Lagerway type guy to run the show so he can go focus on the Argos and condos, etc.
    Curtis was the logical choice at the time - on paper he was basically Tim B Pt2 - So I don't blame him for taking that chance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    Curtis was the logical choice at the time - on paper he was basically Tim B Pt2 - So I don't blame him for taking that chance.
    Eh?! How do you square that circle, exactly? He'd been fired by the Red Bulls and couldn't get along with Jesse Marsch.

    Bez was a league front-office star who knew the inner workings of the transfer system inside and out, and helped develop them.

    There was no comparison between the two.

    Bez was a former player, yeah, but was crocked by injury at the USL or A-league level. He went and got a law degree. He developed wide-ranging and effective league contacts.

    Ali was ridiculed in NY for producing a 300-page "master plan" and, arguably, most of the successes when he was there were down to a youth system in which he was not invested in, and a coach who disagreed so vehemently with him that he was fired, because they wanted to keep the coach (who is now in the Bundesliga).

    Where do you get that he has the ability to "identify good talent?" From us passing on Tajon and Dayne for Griffin Dorsey? From us signing Erickson Gallardo, a player not ready for USL? From our "Depth" signings of Zavs and Nick DeLeon, or giving $1.3 million to a crocked Gonzalez and paying more than a million for Kemar Lawrence?

    His lack of judgement is staggering.

    So on the surface, I guess I'm not seeing the comparison.

    I also can't see why anyone would think Manning showing faith in two former A-League teammates with a collective history of flaming out in NY suggests he should keep his job. I suspect like most people here, I have little to no idea what his job even is, but if hiring those two was key to it.... yeah, not a ringing endorsement.

    So far, we've had these guys for three years and they've taken us from the best team in the East to the worst team in the league. Meanwhile, the two guys they replaced, Bez and Vanney, have a title in Columbus and a winning team in LA, something multiple coaches failed at.

    On the surface, it would seem prudent to clean house in our front office and start over.
    Last edited by jloome; 08-25-2021 at 11:22 AM.

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    We were lucky to get Seba, smart to get Bradley, lucky and smart to get VV, and forced into the Jozy acquisition - all of which turned out brilliantly. Supported by key acquisitions like Drew Mooore, Beitashour , Morrow and the development of Marky and Oso. Somehow or other management assumed that, under different hands ie Manning that run would just continue. It hasnít. Realistically, our roster choices since Seba left have been poor - and sometimes unlucky. The club won the lottery and thought it was bevause they were smarter and better organized. We werenít. We are now starting over. With what? From a club development stand point, what do we have? Supporters. Money. Not much else. Little structure, not a great academy, not even a coach - jury is out on Perez (I like what I have seen) but a year ago we had Robin Fraser on the bench and before that Greg Vanney in the academy. They have acted like we could buy Success. Apparently, we cannot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Where do you get that he has the ability to "identify good talent?" From us passing on Tajon and Dayne for Griffin Dorsey? From us signing Erickson Gallardo, a player not ready for USL? From our "Depth" signings of Zavs and Nick DeLeon, or giving $1.3 million to a crocked Gonzalez and paying more than a million for Kemar Lawrence?
    His DP selections have been good so there's that and he did get Laryea for nothing and did a few good 'dead weight for allocation $$' deals too so he can make deals.

    Gallardo was apprently scouted before Curtis was here and the due dilligence was done prior. No way Curtis could have pulled that off so quickly after taking the job with the Poz thing going too. So the bulk of that blame should go to Vanney and/or Bez.

    Tajon and Dayne are no surprise as I said a few times earlier; we're the most USMNT and therefore US reliant (but not cheap) team in MLS. Of course Manning & Curtis would pass on Canadians for an American with GA status.

    Gonzalez was good in 2019 but that's about it. I knew that was a bad move right when it happened but he is a former USMNT member and we know how that goes. DeLeon is fine and did a job while Zavaleta is trash, he is at least league minimum trash.

    As for Lawrence, jury is out. I know his MLS credentials and I wanted us to get him before he went to Belgium but at the moment I can't see why he starts over Auro and that's not even Auro's good side. I figure that was an Armas influenced move.

    IMO Curtis is okay at identifying good talent but he is too slow to be effective for a team that acquires players. I imagine we lost out on a lot of probably better targets as players got signed by other teams while he was in phase one of his 20 phase plan of due diligence.

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    It doesnít take skill to pick Lawrence and Gonzalez. Maybe a deal making skill but not a talent ID skill. Poz, both perhaps. But thatís really been it.

    As I say above, we won the lottery and acted like it was investments that made us rich - now we see the truth.

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    The team is on route to have its worse season ever. If that doesnít bring a total overhaul, then what does?
    Personally, I havenít spent a single penny directly supporting the team this year, although Iíve watched every game and pay for journalism. So, unless there is massive change in the off-season, it doesnít look like I will be next year either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    It doesnít take skill to pick Lawrence and Gonzalez. Maybe a deal making skill but not a talent ID skill. Poz, both perhaps. But thatís really been it.

    As I say above, we won the lottery and acted like it was investments that made us rich - now we see the truth.
    Pozuelo was actually identified long before Dumb and Dumber (Curtis and Manning) arrived at the club. He was actually on Bez's radar when they were scouting Giovinco.

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    I think they are banking on a decent run to the end of the season(weaker teams). Then blaming Covid, Florida, Injuries etc on why they didn’t make the playoffs (notice I didn’t say coaching) and saying they need a restart. it’s in the 200 page plan. It is a travesty and such damage to a great brand. The only reason I held my tickets was my perceived belief that we better get a shot at tickets in 2026 or i would have been gone. It will be so easy to get single game tickets moving forward. Only the faithful are left.

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    The simple way to look at this is that Bill Manning took over a team that was arguably the best in league history, and five years later, after spending millions, it is the worst in the league, with a terribly unbalanced roster that cannot defend or score.

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    And Bill bizarrely is the President of the Argos as well. If thatís a winning formula why not consolidate the role of President for the Raps and Leafs?

    Bill needs to be relieved of his duties at TFC. Go be a full time President of the Argos or just remove him completely. Let him go to the next MLS club on the verge of winning silverware and let him slowly implode the organization by bringing in his incompetent buddies.

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    I don't understand the hate on for Bill Manning - people make it seem like he's done shit all since arriving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    The simple way to look at this is that Bill Manning took over a team that was arguably the best in league history, and five years later, after spending millions, it is the worst in the league, with a terribly unbalanced roster that cannot defend or score.
    Its not that simple.

    A year ago, this is not what we were saying. We have a lot of recency bias on Manning.

    A mistake was made in this year's coach - likely also a mistake made in Curtis as that GM seems unable to react to circumstances.

    But Manning fixed a heck of a lot of behind the scenes head office non-football dysfunction that TL was not as interested in dealing with or helped to create through his management style. Manning is not a sizzle sort of guy. You won't see where the club is better then it was because we are not supposed to see all that stuff. AND, Manning tried to keep Vanney knowing how good he was.

    The next hire of a GM (I'm assuming Curtis is gone at the end of this season) & coach (just can't see them keeping Perez given only some of the players are progressing while many are getting worse) is where he will have to succeed.

 

 

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