July - ASAP
August - Need A Bit
September - Wait Until Fall
October - A few more months
November - Maybe Playoffs
Next Year - Not Me This Year
Originally Posted by jabbronies
I would be surprised if it wasn't already done with fully vaccinated First Responders. It would be a touch of glass to add Frontline Workers who were fully vaccinated as well.
EDIT - I stand corrected as usual 0-15,000, it is us as well.
Last edited by Bushmancan; 07-13-2021 at 03:19 PM.
If you are a RPB member, might I unofficially but strongly suggest you get your ass into the member's lounge to read important info there & respond as requested.
The information there is applying to NOT just this one game.
**********
OooooooOooOooo spill the beans!
Nah....membership has its privileges - that & this isn't all that breaking & will all come out soon enough.
Enough info to be worth going to read it if you have membership.
why do supporters groups get the info before regular SSH do regarding saturday?
Ok. Fingers crossed!Nah....membership has its privileges - that & this isn't all that breaking & will all come out soon enough.
Enough info to be worth going to read it if you have membership.
I would point out that if anybody knows anything about the TFC supporters groups its this - if MLSE was doing something extremely stupid, you all would know by now something stupid was up because somebody would be spilling those beans somewhere on social media.
I would also point out that although I understand why some people don't want to join a supporters group, the representation & work by the leadership of RPB is, IMHO, worth the membership fee. As you can tell by my location, you don't have to be in the south end to be an RPB. Again, I understand why some wouldn't join - past history, other loyalties, against the concept. And some others might want to consider.
Last edited by OgtheDim; 07-13-2021 at 07:36 PM.
They gonna announce this anytime soon? Saturday is creeping closer.
it's showing that the feds just dgaf about any sport but hockey.
should be a no brainer to allow a team of fully vaccinated players in to play a game outdoors, especially since far less vaccinated american hockey teams have been playing in canada **indoors** for weeks.
That got approved in a big hurry too. Gonna be ridiculous if the government decides to decline this proposal after allowing NHL teams to travel in with exemptions a month earlier.
You gotta realize lots of things are connected. Ontario seems OK with the current sports teams proposals (AFAIK), but they were the biggest opponents to any general border opening in the last few months. I haven't heard Ontario change their opinion on general border opening yet, at least not publicly. But if the feds allow sports teams back and forth frequently w/o quarantine, you just know tourism and others that want to cross the border and are already screaming, will scream even louder.
Also things getting decided on a one-off for a couple of NHL playoff games, when you can have tight protocols for a short time, are different from opening up leagues for the rest of the season. And you know that they'll all want to be treated the same. In fact "no brainer to allow a team of fully vaccinated players in to play" is not a no-brainer at all, as it's not clear that US MLS teams are fully vaccinated. It's also not clear that MLS rules will allow certain players or staff to be excluded from US-based teams when they play in Canada, based on their vaccination status.
Next, MLB will want to play in Canada if MLS is allowed. There are significant pockets of anti-vaxers in MLB. Not sure if you saw the Blue Jays proposal: they want a "modified quarantine" for both local and visiting players & staff that are not fully vaccinated. Not sure how that is supposed to work especially if any Blue Jays players or staff are not vaccinated: are they supposed to stay in modified quarantine for the rest of the season while in Toronto?
Probably some other leagues and sports are also lobbying and negotiating. They will need to look at that all together. Next after that: will tourism or other industries also demand "modified quarantine" for anti-vaxers that want to cross the border?
Hopefully there will be a decision for TFC in the near future. But let's not pretend that this is super easy. And let's realize that whatever is decided or not decided, a bunch of people will scream about it. And every level of government is happy if another level of government takes the heat for that.
Last edited by Auzzy; 07-13-2021 at 09:27 PM.
Now for some good news: 91% of Torontonians age 18 - 24 have at least one dose of vaccine. Holy F, more than any other age group! (2nd doses aren't shown for this age group in the following graph, for some reason. But you can bet they're all trying to get 2nd shots ASAP, if they don't already have them.) That should be the only age group allowed in as fans for now, and with free tickets LOL. Provide some incentive to the other age groups.
Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/joe_cressy/status/1414670263040450561
The Canadian government is well within their right to demand that a foreign national entering Canada has to be vaccinated and the onus is on them to prove it. They can get their records for it from the county where they got their shots. Someone who has both shots is totally able to prove they have got them and lets be serious flashing a CDC card will not suffice to say the least. In terms of MLS rules would Canadian federal health policy trump those when it comes to if an unvaccinated player on a US based team can play or not when they play in Canada. Entering the country is a privilege and I am sure MLS knows that.
The main thing holding up any return to BMO right now is getting the opposing team across the border and thats something domestic leagues like the CFL and CPL do not have to face. They for the most part had to deal with things on the provincial governments to get back on the field. The only thing the CFL had to do from a federal standpoint was agreeing to a quarantine plan for getting the US players across the border in time for training camp which opened on July 10th. Both the CFL an CPL will be playing in their home markets by the end of July early August.
When it comes to opening up the border overall even in stages, I really feel for those in the business of tourism who are seeing there summer opportunities disappearing, it will be interesting to see what the banter is in the days leading up to July 21st when the decision of keeping the border open or closed will be made. Maybe we will see some changes. To be honest in a large setting like a sporting event distancing is more important to that if someone near me has had their shots or not. In my mind anyone wading into a crowd without having a shot at this point is stupid, simple as that. Is seeing your team win, really worth the risk, I think not.
Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!
But what if MLS competition rules don't allow excluding those players? (What if MLS says, TFC has to play "home games" vs. any US team with unvaccinated players in the US?) With MLB trying to bypass the vaccination restriction, there's a good chance this is an issue.
The data shown by the City of Toronto is quite different than the Provincial data. The Provincial data has Toronto 18-29 at 65% single vaxed. https://www.publichealthontario.ca/e...ol?tab=vaccineNow for some good news: 91% of Torontonians age 18 - 24 have at least one dose of vaccine. Holy F, more than any other age group! (2nd doses aren't shown for this age group in the following graph, for some reason. But you can bet they're all trying to get 2nd shots ASAP, if they don't already have them.) That should be the only age group allowed in as fans for now, and with free tickets LOL. Provide some incentive to the other age groups.
Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/joe_cressy/status/1414670263040450561
I saw some Twitter discussions that suggested it could be how Toronto treats people who may have multiple places of residence. For example, a university student who lives in Toronto but also has their health card address associated with their parent's house in Peel. If this individual gets vaccinated in Toronto would they count as a Toronto resident or a Peel resident in the official statistics? Toronto could count them, but would need to increase the total number of people in that age bracket. Similarly, Peel would need to remove them from their population.
Come down hard on the unvaccinated as the French government has and you will see the toon change for many. The feds and provincial governments in this country should really take a run at the anti vax crowd for the greater good.
Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/EdTubb/status/1414953782190956548
Now for some good news: 91% of Torontonians age 18 - 24 have at least one dose of vaccine. Holy F, more than any other age group! (2nd doses aren't shown for this age group in the following graph, for some reason. But you can bet they're all trying to get 2nd shots ASAP, if they don't already have them.) That should be the only age group allowed in as fans for now, and with free tickets LOL. Provide some incentive to the other age groups.
Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/joe_cressy/status/1414670263040450561
Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!
"opening up leagues for the rest of the season" is not what is being proposed at all, though.
clearly they can decline entry for visiting teams if covid situation deteriorates later in the summer/ fall, it's a fluid situation that is constantly changing.
as it is, with incredibly low and declining case counts in toronto and MLS fully vaxx rates at 95%, there is no justification for refusing this specific proposal.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mor...Ef?li=BB15ms5q
"It's also not clear that MLS rules will allow certain players or staff to be excluded from US-based teams when they play in Canada, based on their vaccination status."
this also is probably false, based on the fact that Bill Manning said publicly that nick deleon wouldn't be playing in away games from this point on.
MLB is again, a completely different situation where the venue is indoors when it rains, and irrelevant to this proposal.
Let's be real here and acknowledge that if soccer was the dominant sport in canada, not hockey, this proposal would have been accepted in a day.
I totally see what you mean now, it will be interesting to see if this issue does come to light. Would teams and the league make it an issue if its only 1-2 players on a team, we shall see. I guess if a team is full of antivaxers they could raise a stink, but if thats the case they have more problems that just this in my eyes moving forward. It certainly something to keep an eye on.
Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!
Interesting. And scary if the different agencies are so clued out. But wouldn't this be a general issue then? For example, a ton of health care workers living outside of Toronto were vaccinated in the city. I was told the stats always go by the OHIP address.
Some PHU's still include probable cases in their local numbers each day and the province weeds them out. My uncle lives in Ottawa, got his first shot in Kingston and second in Petawawa , two different PHUs than where he lives, so is he counted by Ottawa, I am not sure? Plus we still have the issue of getting those who were vaccinated abroad acknowledged. Toronto Public Health has setup their own process for getting your vaccination recorded locally but are those being acknowledged provincially now? I do not know if all the PHU's in Ontario are setup to do this. Lots of snowbirds, travellers did get their shots south so Ontario's vaccination numbers could be higher.
Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!
First of all, all of the leagues are asking for the rest of the season. Of course thing can change again. But that's what they're asking to approve.
Next: Nick DeLeon is on a Canadian team affected by Canadian border rules, playing in a primarily US league. And 95% isn't 100%. What if the top scorer of a US-based MLS team isn't vaccinated? You have no idea if MLS rules would allow him to be excluded from a game played in Canada.
Indoors/outdoors is primarily a provincial health policy thing, not a federal border or quarantine issue. (Plus Ontario is allowing indoor sports leagues at the same time, with modified restrictions.)
And please do realize that other industries are watching this very closely; that MLB has much more clout in Canada than MLS (and will freak if they aren't allowed at the same time as MLS); that the NBA & NHL are also watching this closely for the next seasons; and that Ontario has been very hypocritical in their stance on the border which makes this a complicated issue politically.
Last edited by Auzzy; 07-13-2021 at 10:29 PM.
there are probably only about 40 unvaccinated players in the league based on these numbers, so the chances of that are fairly slim. but yes, i would expect the league to be even handed in their handling of this and not punish the canadian teams for government policy that is completely unrelated to them. teams are missing players for all sorts of reasons, unless the players that are lacking vaccination are all on one team, it shouldn't be an issue in regards to fielding a strong team.
if other industries want to allow 3 dozen fully vaccinated people who can prove this vaccination status to cross the border for 1 day then i would say they should probably get a green light too.
edit to say: what you're saying could be right, but i would like to believe that after the enormous disadvantage the canadian teams have played at for 18 months, they wouldn't deny us the ability to host games because 1 or 2 players per american team aren't vaccinated and can't cross border.
*league starting in october have absolutely no relation to what's going on now. the situation is changing so quickly, a decision in july will have no bearing on a completely different decision in mid october.
Last edited by leedsandTFC; 07-13-2021 at 10:53 PM.
anyways, let's agree to disagree.
Cheers!
Yeh, I think people may not be quite realising the level of decision making involved in this - there's an election coming in the next 2 weeks. This isn't about "they like that sport more then ours".
There is a political risk of allowing games before the border is opened in general. The province has put this into the feds court & although Bell & Rogers both have government liaisons that have been persuasive over CRTC decisions, its going to take a LOT of a different form of persuasion to get the PMO (that's the level here) to approve Saturday.
Lets just put it this way
If this was announced today, somebody on twitter would soon be complaining about Trudeau saying the phrase "the MLS" during a press conference.
Logically speaking we should find out one way or another today. IMO it’s already late but let’s see
I still think our best chance is a broader border re-opening on the 21st. In part due to the politics that Og mentioned, but also now that we're so close to the next border agreement and the pressure for more re-opening is high. Trudeau has already said the border won't open to tourists for a while, so we aren't going back to normal on the 21st. But we could see something like any vaccinated employee who has to do business in Canada being allowed without quarantine. Something like that should cover athletes going in and out of the country. MLB might be screwed if their vax rates are that low. But TFC should be fine.
This has already been in place for a while but the person has to cross the boarder weekly at minimum in the wording. Depending on the schedule certain teams may or may not travel to the US every week. MLB, NHL, & NBA could do it if they had time to plan a schedule. Wouldn't be too good for MLS because of the weekly/bi-weekly match schedule.
Yeah, so I think it would be changing the class of worker allowed in. I think part of the definition now includes a concept of essential too, doesn't it, not just frequency? My understanding is that is why athletes haven't been covered so far, they aren't considered essential employment-related travel. I think these are the kinds of things that may be opened up further on the 21st.
On another note, the drumbbeats to an opt-in passport are getting louder
Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/ColinDMello/status/1415315038529802245
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