Arteta should be available and unwanted by anyone good in Europe shortly.Originally Posted by OgtheDim
*meant as a joke and a dig at Arsenal but....
Arteta should be available and unwanted by anyone good in Europe shortly.
*meant as a joke and a dig at Arsenal but....
Last edited by Ultra & Proud; 08-28-2021 at 09:33 AM.
We’re well practiced at passing the ball around the 18 and not shooting. He’s the perfect fit.
I feel bad for Perez. He probably expects everyone on the team to be able to handle basic tasks. Which is probably the reason why he’ll never succeed as a MLS coach unless he works for a good GM. I’m not sure if accepting the interim job was a good decision on his part, may do more damage than good for his career.
It really is an impossible choice.
Accepting the job has obvious pitfalls
But not accepting could also raise questions in the future.
"Why didn't you take it? Did you not feel ready?"
"The team needed you to step up"
Etc.
Yeah, good point, no good choice really.
he did well at the beginning, and was brave with Bradley / Altidore sub. Hasnt been able to solve the defence - which is a personnel issue - but last night should have brought Marky on as soon as it was 1-1 and put him beside Bradley. Probably sat Poz then. 1-1 for this club at this moment a man down would have been a great result.
Last edited by MightyDM; 08-31-2021 at 07:47 AM.
I think Perez is a good coach, but not a manager or 'head coach'. We got the new manager bounce with him, we see some improved play and positioning. What disappeared with new manager bounce was the motivation with the players. This is why i saw he is a good coach, and not a good manager. He doesn't have the 'fire' to be man manage. He seems to me like a Carlos Quieroz, excellent assistant coach but not a good manager.
When we tied the game against MTL, I realized this issue, because we had some fire on the field and intensity. But it only showed up (barely) in the rivalry match, which means it wasn't Perez that brought it out.
I feel bad for him as i am sure he will have a great coaching career, just not as a head coach. We need to get someone who can man manage.
I agree, if individual players are unmotivated then they need to be benched or let go. But when the whole team is unmotivated then it's on the manager. So far I don't think Perez is the right choice for us beyond this season, but then I'm also nervous who they'll pick in his place. I have VERY low expectations from management at this point. VERY low.
I don’t agree with that criticism of Perez. Showing you will bench anyone certainly motivates others. I think the lack of fire is from the terrible defence. How can you get up for games every week if you know we will give up weak goals? Totally demotivating.
I find Perez demotivating himself. His personality is that of the professor in Ferris Beuller. Key to successful MLS managers is getting the most out of the middle to low tier players on the roster and I can't say anyone improved at all under Perez.
As for his tactical acumen; haven't seen much of that either. All he basically did was revert to the basics and bench one leader for the equivalent of one match and the other is injured again so there's nothing in that. That's high school football coach level management. So far I haven't seen him change a match with tactics and the only time he changed a match with a sub was against NYCFC but that's somewhat because of the Bradley/Jozy removal & moreso Achara throwing unseen energy and movement up top. Perez still stubornly sticks with what is proven not work (Gonzalez at the back), our offensive movement is worse than under Vanney, and the high possession/low risk basic passing game hasn't done much to stabilize the defense. There isn't one manager in the CPL and probably USL that couldn't have managed what Perez has. I also refuse to buy into the "unbalanced, no depth" excuses either. Sure we don't have the squad to win anything but we should be better than Wooden Spoon level and historically bad. Not saying great but at least 18th to 20th overall or so. To be able to threaten the record of our 2012 team is ridiculous.
Jury is out for me. I cannot tell from television whether his tactics are followed by the players because you need to see the movement of those off the ball, which is very hard to do on TV.
Criticizing him for playing Gonzalez is unfair because there isn’t an option. What are you suggesting he do?
The only thing he hasn’t tried defensively is Mavinga and Morrow (which looks to be our best CB pairing at the moment.) Zavaleta cost us points two games in a row; Singh isn’t ready.
And yes, most of his career has been as a number two - but it’s been at a very high level. I can accept criticism of his calm demeanor (although I don’t fully agree) but I don’t think we are in a position to properly evaluate tactical acumen and my default is that he knows what he is doing.
Also, we have an unbalanced line up that gives up easy goals all the time and doesn’t score. The blame lies elsewhere for me.
I agree, primary cause of or woes currently.
That said, I tend to agree with Thrillos Perez is a good coach but not a head coach.
Laryea - Lawrence - Mavinga - Auro
Lawrence or Morrow are the two better options but at this point, would it be any worse to use Dunn or use a 3 CB line up to at least offer stability.
Also Gonzalez is no better than Singh or Zavaleta. All get caught out, all get wrong sided, and all make poor and rash decisions. The biggest difference is that Gonzalez gets some leaniency from the refs where the other two don't. Realistically he could be carded out every match by how often he has to grab and lean on attacking players. I know there aren't a lot of choices but to suggest he is somehow any better isn't right either.
The game he took Bradley out of he also switched from a double pivot to stacking the no 6 and no 8 positions so we could play through the lines.
Additionally, he recognized that Priso's speed would make major difference and benched Michael Bradley, which was a major tactical step.
Who is he supposed to play at the back OTHER than Gonzalez? Everyone else other than Mavinga is even worse; Julian Dunn is just back from injury, so the one youth we have who might step in wasn't available. You want him to snap his fingers and find us defenders? The sole remaining option that might be preferable now that Mavinga is back is sitting Gonzalez and playing Justin Morrow there, but keep in mind he played all of 20 games there for San Jose and fans said he was TERRIBLE at it.
Lawrence has even less experience there at NYRB, AND that puts Mavinga onto his weaker right side.
Simple saying "we moved the ball better under Vanney" and "we shouldn't lose this much" doesn't offer any alternatives. He doesn't have the personnel to win games, period.
He also doesn't have the authority as a fill in to promise them it'll change and they'll get reinforcements. It was obvious after Omar's ridiculous comments about others working as hard as him that the dressing room knows the defense is the problem, so he also has a divided dressing room to deal with.
And lastly, there are top coaches all over the world who are quiet and assured. An absence of overt passion to the press and public does not indicate, in any way, that someone can't motivate.
So a pretty harsh assessment overall.
(Having said all of that, I still wouldn't hire him. Why would we hire a guy with no head coaching experience, regardless of his credentials, for a league at this level? That would be too much of a gamble.)
This club has NO defensive spine, essential to any club or manager succeeding. Our forwards don't press and defend from the front, our central midfielders are slow and do nothing to prevent buildup , and by the time that has influenced play, our terrible central defenders are overwhelmed.
On the second goal last game, our entire defensive corps, midfielders to wingbacks, was no more than two feet from the goal line. They'd back up so far to defend the cross (despite that being the goalie's area to control) that they couldn't even play the offside trap, let alone stop trailing midfielder from an open look inside the box.
That's not coaching, that's cowardice.
We have a shit team, defensively. We got away with it in past seasons because our midfield still had enough legs to cope and help break up attacks and because Mavinga was healthy. Nothing Perez does -- NOTHING -- is going to be able to change that reality. I put literally zero of this on him, and neither do I expect him to get the job.
This is on the players. Overpaid, overhyped, overwhelmed.
Last edited by jloome; 08-31-2021 at 10:32 AM.
Do I need to remind you that Vanney had no head coaching experience when he took over for Nielsen? Robin Fraser, the top assistant, had more experience than Vanney as a head coach when he coached Chivas USA. It could very well be that Perez never had an offer despite his credentials for a reason.
Here's the thing, experience vs taking a chance becomes a chicken or egg paradox. In order to get the experience, you need to get and opportunity, but to get an opportunity, you have to get experience. We don't have the luxury to demand experienced coaches when our roster is such a mess. You might as well take a chance with Perez, who has shown decent tactical acumen and man management skills.
I disagree with most of this (edit: reply didn't work, this reply to jloome one post up). He does have personnel, and this view point that we don't have players is a horrible statement. I don't care if they are older or whatever anyone wants to say, this is 90% of what finished 2nd last season and clinched a playoff spot first of all teams. I am sorry but being dead last the following seasons is not strictly a player issue given these facts.
People would have thought the Revs were a horrible team prior to Bruce Arena joining, now look at them. That is how a good manager can bring a team up in confidence and therefore ability. We haven't had great acquisitions lately (I still think Ali Curtis is one of the worst GMs in the league right now, and in no way standing up for him) but the pure salary we have should not be dead last, period.
This is how a losing mentality is contagious, and what I was alluding to by the difference between a coach and a manager. Perez is not a manager, period. Anyone that still thinks he should be given the benefit of the doubt, is just signing up for more mediocrity/pain for longer.
Vanney is a great coach because players played for him, if he had falling outs, it wasn't overly personal or public. He knew how to adapt a playing style or formation to the players available, and the players thrived under him because they were playing in a system that suited them individually and collectively, pretty much every game.
We have a good squad, not great, but a good one. We don't have a good manger, and the longer we go without one, the longer the losing mentality metastasizes like it did for YEARS prior to Lieweki, Bez, and Vanney. Period.
I'm only suggesting that Perez isnt accountable for our shoddy defence. Or put another way, he shouldnt be judged on that.
I don't agree. We have a horribly unbalanced squad that is now demoralized because no matter what they do the defence leaks goals. We have no attack and no defence; we are all midfield.
Thats not a coaching issue.
You can disagree, but add some examples/data/facts.... what about our back line was different in terms of players from last year to this year... Last season we were mid table GA (half the GA to the previous last place GA), this season we are dead last.
So I ask you, if it is not a coaching issue and player issue... do we have a different coach or different back line players to last year??
I agree that with what we have, unbalanced as it is now and also has been for a few years since Vanney overstocked us with mids, is better than 27th. I realize players have lost a step like Gonzalez (if he ever had steps) and Bradley but that's not the entirety of the defense plus the Armas & Bono factors earlier on. There's a lot more going on that to just say they're demoralized because whatever they try fails. The whole team looks disjointed. In a way it's exactly like 2012-13 as it looks like a team of guys that just met and are playing a beer league match.
I'm not saying we're good or anywhere near what we were last season or even a boarderline playoff team. I am just saying that with what we have we should be better than 27th and that's on the manager as much as the players.
They’re too old dude. There were signs of it as soon as Omar joined us, even more when we immediately nosedived last season when Poz was injured.
Our only viable central defender is Mavinga, our only viable defensive midfielder is Ralph.
Last season Bradley either covered just enough ground or he was injured and Osorio wasn’t away.
How can you look at this roster and possibly consider it competitive? We didn’t win shit last year, either, and as soon as Poz was out we plummeted, even under Vanney.
these are players in their 30s. When they are done, they are done.
Realistically we need:
three new central defenders (Mavinga is aging, too, and a team at this level needs four viable Center backs)
a holder for when Priso isn’t available
a right winger who contributes offensively
a starting Striker
an understudy to Poz as creator for when he isn’t available
a starting goalkeeper as Q is 35 and Bono is mediocre.
It’s not about fielding a team that doesn’t embarrass us. It’s about WINNING, and when you look at the rest of the league now, that’s what we need. We are that far off.
So no coach, no matter how good, is turning this around. We won ONE title with Greg. Last season, we blew a nine-point lead for the shield and lost to a Nashville team in the playoffs that didn’t deserve to be on the same pitch.
So that was good enough? Amd even THAT we couldn’t achieve with this lot a year older.
Nah, no coach is turning this around without a major roster rebuild. I’m not going to compare Vanney to Perez, because Vanney came into a team with Sebastian Giovinco, a healthy Jozy, Michael Bradley a year off playing number eight for Roma.
Apples and very shitty oranges.
Last edited by jloome; 08-31-2021 at 04:14 PM.
,
as noted above, apples and oranges when Vanney had a healthy Seba, Altidore and Bradley in their Twenties, drew moor… Vanney couldn’t lead us anywhere last year, and he’s a great manager in this league now. But as soon as Poz went down, we started losing games, blew a nine point,
lead to Philly and then got knocked out in round one by Nashville, an expansion team.
I agree he looks like he has some potential, but you don’t take chances in the mess we’re in, you clean house and start over with proven talent and leadership.
Whenever I see anyone arguing that the roster is good enough to compete as-is, I can’t help but think they suffer from the same bias as Curtis. Which is, that players can’t be assessed just by looking at where they’ve been in the past or where they are in the moment. A good GM thinks about where the players are headed and the glories of the past. Gonzalez is a perfect example, he was good for one season and should have been signed to one or two years with options, at most. It doesn’t take a whiz to figure that one out either, it was obvious from just watching his Liga MX games. Zavaleta and Bono are the opposite example, given raises based on one good season. It’s like every decision is made either from outdated info or completely reflexively.
Last edited by Kamp Berg; 08-31-2021 at 04:29 PM.
Exactly. Our average roster age when we won the title was 24.5. Now it’s 26.5, and even the younger squad replacements haven’t strengthened us.
We haven’t had a good defence statistically since Drew Moor left. We just made up for it with clock control and scoring timely goals.
No goals in this squad; our leading scorer is a utility midfielder.
On top of aging out, we have a lot of egos, even by pro football standards. There’s not a lot of humility leaking out of that dressing room.
But on this theory you have mentioned, can you explain how it is the Jays went from winning the World Series in '93, to finishing 55-60 the following season (strike shortened), to finishing tied for last in '95? With some minor adjustments, it appears the roster was mainly intact through those seasons.
The one big possibility I can think of is that they are a year older the following season, and hence, are not as effective, especially for the veteran guys.
Which does beg the question. Is it the coach or the personnel? Vanney's first season flamed out against Montreal because we were trotting out Creavalle/Jackson as our makeshift RB after Mark Bloom went down for the season.
Javier has a team that is either too old to be effective, or too young to take the next step. No coach in the world can deal with a mess of a back line and a forward that has aged 5 years due to injuries. Since we're going to be rebuilding for awhile, let Javier grow with the team and start revamping the academy to provide a much clearer path.
I don’t know my own opinion of Perez. I just like his dignity and his backbone.
The roster is horribly unbalanced - one CB (Mavinga) and one injury prone elite striker (Jozy). Elite midfield. So we ship goals and don’t score, but pass the ball beautifully at times.
That’s a fact and the arguments above by JLoome and others completely persuasive about the roster.
So what do we do with Perez? Great start but now the team has reverted to the mean. He is brave - he did what many critics on here have been calling for by substituting Jozy and MB - and he seems to command the respect of the players.
We will know after the international break if , when he has the ability to work with the team over an extended period of time, if he is able to impose a tactical system that works for the team. If so, he is a keeper.
I highly recommend comedian Alan Davies' podcast The Tuesday Club, for a funny-but-dead-on commentary on Arsenal, and for the multiple obvious parallels to our current situation...
They are too old, dude. I never said they weren’t. I said that the blame for our current position isn’t squarely on the players, our previous manager sucked and our current manager is not up to the standard we need.
Our roster is not trash, we have a better a better roster than half the mls teams, anyone that thinks otherwise is oblivious. Our team is not a dead last team, full stop. But we are, because our coaches/managers have sucked since Vanney left. Full stop.
Sure we blew a 9 point lead for the shield last year, but we still finished second, not dead last. Sure we went out in the first round of the playoffs, but lots of great teams go out early in a cup competition. Thats why many on here will likely argue that the league is more important than the mls cup. Did I mention we finished second last season. Our roster was mostly the same, we for sure went above what our roster was…. Because of a good coach. Our roster is a bit older and a bit different, and now we are dead last. We are well below what our roster should have us… because we have bad coaches now. Full stop.
And you don’t have to compare him to Vanney and his first year because you can more easily compare him to vanney with roughly the same roster. And guess what, we finished second. Lol.
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