Much better tonight. Still very concerned about the team and it's ability to score goals, but they looked much more organized and everyone put in the work tonight. I do worry that other teams will see what the Red Bulls did to this us and start pressing more.
Every question mark I had going into tonight I still have save one: can this team play with some composure on the ball. The answer is a merciful yes. The question is can Armas lean into that and find the system that allows TFC to press effectively while avoiding killing the attack, the players, and our spirits. There is a balance that I think will work and tonight was a giant step in the right direction.
Amazing how good Armas looks when the top players have a good game.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
When we do that against a team who presses, even a little bit, then it's impressive.
The in game switching was VERY good with us morphing the 4-2-3-1 into 4-3-3 & 4-4-2 & 4-1-3-2 & 5-3-1-1.
NYC can press, if they so choose - It's how they killed us at MLS is Back. They also have better DMs
It's still too early to evaluate Armas. Seeing how a healthy team plays against a variety of opponents is a must.
I missed this game (anniversary) but the reports seem encouraging. Better organized and some changes to the system.
We did this sort of thing with Vanney too. Some people who made early pronouncements that he was a disaster then couldn't back down even when TFC won the triple. Others like myself (a bit milder but still not preferring him) ended up having to say we were wrong.
Personally I would have preferred if we start evaluating half way through the season. By then we'd have a good idea of his strengths and weaknesses, and whether he is an asset or a liability. Probably an unrealistic idea of mine, but coming from experience. I think Og read the room correctly to start this thread, though. People were never going to wait.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 05-13-2021 at 03:58 AM.
Anyone have Armas' full resume
USSF, UEFA, FIFA Pro Licenses if he has any, where he began coaching etc,
or did he just learn from watching Jesse Marsch and inherited his team when he left, and enjoyed all the fruits of his labour if you know what I mean
All I see on Wikipedia is below:
Coaching career[edit]
Armas served as an assistant coach for the Chicago Fire in 2008 and was the head women's soccer coach at Adelphi University between 2011 and 2015.
On July 6, 2018, Armas was promoted to head coach of New York Red Bulls after former manager Jesse Marsch departed the club to join RB Leipzig as an assistant.[6] Armas helped the Red Bulls finish first in the regular season, winning the Supporters' Shield as a result. The Red Bulls were eliminated in the conference finals by Atlanta United FC.
In 2019, the Red Bulls finished sixth in the Eastern Conference and were eliminated by the Philadelphia Union in the first round of the playoffs. The Red Bulls were then eliminated in the group stage of the MLS is Back Tournament after they were defeated by FC Cincinnati. The team was in the middle of a scoring slump when Armas parted ways with the club on September 4, 2020.[7]
In 2021, Armas was hired as head coach of Toronto FC, replacing Greg Vanney.[8]
Funny you say that. If you read all the coaching staffs bio's https://www.torontofc.ca/club/coaching-staff Armas is the only one without his licenses listed....Originally Posted by smtavare
We looked dog tired by the 65th minute. Not the first time I've seen us this ragged that early - maybe even earlier in previous matches.
I want to see how he manages this as the season goes on. This will be critical to our success both on the field and in the doctors office.
I also think he will sit after this clean sheet. Much better for his confidence.
I am not so sure - DeLeon looked dog tired and some others; not all
This could be it but a not so great 10-15 games could mean us missing the playoffs especially if it comes down to a couple points difference at the end. That would be what would worry me about something like that. As it was said in another thread though too, Bono is making double the wage of Q so it could be management's way of justifying the spend as well.
Bono is 12th highest GK salary in the leauge
tactically very good last night.
substitutions to respond to crew formation change that totally nullified their threat.
we looked very comfortable all night, scored two goals, crew had 2 goalline clearances and we hit the inside of the bar 2 times.
also good to see us be threatening from set pieces! been a while.
this team with oso and poz +lawrence and jozy starting has the potential to be fantastic, let's hope we can see it soon.
Yes. Credit to Armas for that for certain. And to the players for the tactical discipline
Never too early to have an opinion!
I was with you oldtimer (to wait for half the season), until I watched today's game. If Bono starts the next MLS game, then I have no choice but to question his decision making.
I can't get over how ugly of a style Armas has us playing considering the quality of players we have.
Decided to read into Armas following today in the hopes of finding some indication of positive progression for us. In case people are looking for things to pay attention to with Armas and the team read below. The conclusion is he's either the guy that led RBNY to a 2018 Supporters' Shield, or the guy who was 'meh' from 2019-2020. Regardless, he's a stubborn but likeable dude, who makes weird personnel/tactical decisions.
History
- Armas basically rode the Jesse Marsch wave to the 2018 Supporters’ Shield. The team was apparently noticeably less aggressive and clinical. Still he went 12-3-2, a remarkable run.
- He caught a lot of criticism from fans for a comparatively mediocre 2019 season, which included getting bounced in the second round of CCL and first round of the Open Cup and Playoffs. The more sane explanation for these performances was related to management's inability to reinvest in a team that lost a number of key players going into 2019 (Tyler Adams, etc).
- 2019 was basically looked at as a gimme year. He rolled into 2020 with real things expected of him. The Red Bulls squad was retooled in his image.
- However, he fumbled their league-leading fullback situation, misused key players consistently and stubbornly stuck to odd tactical decisions.
- The mid-2020 picture of Armas was characterized by a “trend of individual-level underachievement” and collective tactical confusion. Players looked lost, out of step with each other, attacks were predictable RBNY was also starving for goals.
- When he was fired there were cries that team issues went far beyond coaching (investment, organization, structure, etc).
Overview
- Armas views winning in MLS as rightly difficult, but seems to look at surviving matches as the ideal way to play in this league. He likes to talk about going out to win every game, but when people hold him to that he recoils into a “we can’t win every game” stance.
- 2 years into his tenure one of his common post-game tropes was that “we need to learn how to deal with X or we’re adjusting to doing Y”. Some of these quotes seriously sound the same as the stuff we’re hearing 10 games in.
- He seems to struggle to think truly critically about his team and when he does try he tinkers far too much. He makes a lot of tactically incoherent decisions and when they don’t work he decides to persist with them. (There was a point where he basically tried to use their best player, Kaku, as a super-sub).
- Scoring goals and attacking play in an Armas side has a lot to do with putting the ball into difficult areas of the box and looking for first or second chances. (See: Shaffelburg to Mullins against Leon or Bradley's goal against Columbus.)
- I really didn’t find much about injuries aside from his ominous disclosure of them. Specifically when Kemar Lawrence was healthy from November 2018 to March 2019 and Armas said he was injured to have a reason for keeping him out of the team. There was also a BWP thing for a while in 2019 that didn’t make sense.
TL;DR
- Overall, the guy appears genuinely likeable, but he is prone to making up ‘non-excuses’ and persistently odd tactical decisions.
- His 2018 form, the only season he ever won more than two games in a row, is likely what got him hired. The theory being that the post-Marsch Red Bulls did not adequately invest in their squad following key departures and thereon Armas was doomed to fail.
Reading (I found the SB Nation stuff to be far more expositive than anything you could find elsewhere)
https://www.onceametro.com/2020/2/29/21158765/the-case-for-armas-out
https://www.onceametro.com/2020/2/18...ks-on-the-outs
https://www.onceametro.com/2020/7/29...ack-tournament
https://www.onceametro.com/2019/9/1/...ch-chris-armas
https://www.onceametro.com/2020/8/20...w-york-city-fc
https://www.onceametro.com/2020/9/4/...ch-chris-armas
https://www.onceametro.com/2020/8/21/21395038/should-the-red-bulls-be-as-satisfied-with-last-nights-performance-as-they-seem-to-be
Don't judge much from yesterday's game vis a vis style - that barn box warps all styles into a frenetic stupid mess.
Goals are either caused through freakish idiocy or something extremely sublime. Bono = idiocy Dwyer & Moulinho & Shaffs = sublime - seriously go back and watch that interplay.
Good points from yesterday
Adjusted to that pitch - forcing the press & or the Vanney style into that place is difficult
Adjusted player positions - Auro, Jozy as a #10.
Mass subs made at the right time changed how they had to defend.
Bad
Bono
Should have brought Priso in sooner
We still have no decent #10 but Oso & Poz
More injuries to our mids causing us to have to put a FB into a DM role isn't really something to celebrate
I've never liked the Red Bulls style of play, and find it sad that TFC is heading down the same route. But football fans are very fickle people, I guess it's a wonderful style of play if you win, and looks awful if you lose.
i agree with all that.
Something to add that worried me: despite the small pitch, TFC were often very open on defence. Most of the time NY was very compact in their D, and TFC had to work hard to overcome that. On our end, you could often drive a bus through the defence. Perhaps that's partially on Bono and organizing his D, but the defenders and defensive midfielders also have to organize. Some examples: both Mavinga and Gonzalez were often pulled too much to one side where the ball was, leaving Richie all alone in front of net, with at least one & sometimes more NY attackers. Or there was a huge gap between Gonzalez and Mavinga in the middle; or they were both too far forward. It's really unusual for Castellanos not to score a couple with the all chances given him yesterday. I think before yesterday he had scored 4 goals in 4 games. We really lucked out there.
Thanks for doing this. An underwhelming resume to say the least, but how much of that was due to the owners is a question. With MLSE resources he'd better get results.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Did it mention anywhere about his professional licenses? anyways looks like all mentioned above is already happening with TFC - do not like direction we are going with all this Talent
If we have a Bad year with Pozuelo and Osario back, he has to go
From the start I thought hiring Armas was a step in the wrong direction, I new little of him, other then he seemed to me that he was from a bygone MLS era, one with an approach that the MLS game had gone away from. At the same time despite the crazy 2020 season, TFC had been a team that pushed the tactics forward, and Vanney or not, it seemed to me that we should build on that identity.
However, despite my initial hesitancy, I decided to hold my proverbial tongue, because I new very little about him. Now that the season is well under way, I have to say that I am still not feeling it, not seeing it. We look very average. We do not defend well, we do not attack well. Everything seems to be vanilla and standard at the best of time, and confused at the worst of times. I think that particularly in the MLS a team identity and system is crucial for success. I just do not see it.
I am overwhelmingly underwhelmed, to this point.
If TFC was in Toronto, I would ask to give him no more then half a season to show something, but he is lucky in that we are not at BMO. However, I would like see us hit the ground running once TFC is back were it belongs.
AND Jozy should always be our 9. That is what he is, that is were you want him, closest to goal as much as possible. If you have not true 10, then find different ways to feed him the ball. But Jozy has to be a prime target.
Last edited by trane; 05-17-2021 at 08:06 AM.
Love posts like this.
Reading this actually really reminded of Vanney's first two years here. People here were all over Vanney for being inflexible (back then it was not changing formation in game, and being too late with subs).
I don’t have an opinion yet, or at less until we find out what is going on in the room. The guy may be sitting on top of a volcano that we don't see yet.
Respect is earned in life, and rarely just given.
Last edited by ensco; 05-17-2021 at 08:01 AM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
I knew nothing about Armas before his hiring; the fact that Michael Bradley so evidently supported him meant that I gave him the benefit of the doubt. The Montreal, Vancouver and Red Bull games got me extremely worried because they were a shambles. The Red Bull game was unwatchable; completely disorganized and worse; made me think "if it's this bad he has to go." Columbus, on the other hand, looked organized, competent and you could see what he was trying to do. So for me he rescued himself and I am again defaulting to "MB respects him so I am giving him the benefit of the doubt." However, unlike Vannney, he has been an MLS Head coach. He has less of a learning curve and I think we can make judgements sooner. The next few games will be important to see if the team builds on Columbus and shows a structure and purpose. He gets a pass on that front for NYCFC because those games are always helter skelter - you cannot really make coaching judgments except about lineup choices - and there he did well (Auro) and badly (Bono) at the same time.
Last edited by MightyDM; 05-17-2021 at 09:22 AM.
I think a half season is reasonable to make a decision on him. This is a strong team so there is no reason to not be winning. The way he was hired too is very suspect to me. I can understand the benefit of tapping your networks, but in this case it feels a lot more like rewarding your friends rather than leveraging them for a real stand-out. I actually don't mind the style of play if it's done well. Spurs looked great under Pochettino. Hate to say it, but Leeds are a joy to watch. I think we got stale under Vanney, and the style of play was a bit stale too. I like moving the ball faster, less build up. But so far he hasn't shown he can implement it well, except in the odd flashes.
can comfortably say that what armas is trying to do is not what leeds do.
we (tfc) are far more narrow, and dont pressure as effectively. also I don't feel like our players have the fitness for an effective press, they are tending to fade in the second half.
in a way it's understandable, as pre season was short and covid interrupted, but still not great.
The game in Orlando will be an interesting test.
Away game at a place where we are comfortable playing, with real fans in attendance against a good confident & very athletic team with a good manager. In theory, players missing could include Poz, Oso & Delgado.
Yeah that's fair. I'm not about to contradict you given your name! I'm just saying the style can be done in a stylish way.
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