Chris Armas Evaluation Thread

[OgtheDim]

Let's see what it looks like with Poz in there, and once we get the lineup settled.

No team in MLS can survive losing the league MVP.

I think maybe it's be worth waiting a few games before opining on Armas' tactics/flexibility etc. It really will take 5-6 more games at least to know.

I think some trends are becoming discernible. Whether or not they continue once we have a truly creative AM in there is another thing. I agree we won't really know until into July.

But there were a number of things about the last 5 game that show trends that are worth evaluating.


Ultimately, if this team doesn't make the playoffs, Armas is gone. Not sure TFC would pull the trigger early in order to try to make the playoffs without him. But that will be the test. Everything else we discuss is just how to's.

[MightyDM]

Let's see what it looks like with Poz in there, and once we get the lineup settled.

No team in MLS can survive losing the league MVP.

I think maybe it's be worth waiting a few games before opining on Armas' tactics/flexibility etc. It really will take 5-6 more games at least to know.

you are of course right on the need to give him time, but there are alarm bells sounding all over the place. “ Danger Danger Will Robinson “ type alarm bells.

[DavemTFC]

Wasn't the talk around Armas first getting hired that he wasn't going to overhaul everything but just tweak aspects of the team's play? This is still a team with an aging core in win-now mode and we won't win anything this season with a style so different from the previous one it takes an entire season, at minimum, to adjust

[ensco]

You guys are all jumping to the conclusion that our best players are playing like crap because of the new coach/system.

I am telling you, that is just a cause/effect assumption that you guys are making.

I am watching the Raps, and with them, their best players, truly elite players, are playing inexplicably like crap with the exact same championship coach.

Covid, no training camp, living out of a suitcase, injuries, are not Armas' fault. (If you blame the injuries on Armas, again, you are just making an assumption. Find something that supports that. Best I can tell, NYRB didn’t have unusual injury outcomes with him in charge.)

[reggie]

armas mentioned that the players did not have a off season training program after the vanney crew left,he also said the tfc were last in the league in sprints during the game,and his style is more of sprint style of game pressing therefore it is a change in training,this roster is not used to it,the redbulls play that style from the age of 15 or younger.

[MightyDM]

You guys are all jumping to the conclusion that our best players are playing like crap because of the new coach/system.

I am telling you, that is just a cause/effect assumption that you guys are making.

I am watching the Raps, and with them, their best players, truly elite players, are playing inexplicably like crap with the exact same championship coach.

Covid, no training camp, living out of a suitcase, injuries, are not Armas' fault. (If you blame the injuries on Armas, again, you are just making an assumption. Find something that supports that. Best I can tell, NYRB didn’t have unusual injury outcomes with him in charge.)

You have a fair point in all of that Ensco. And it’s why all of my posts have agreed that it’s early. But boy they look like there is no system, or organization.

[MikeForbes]

I rewatched the game. We look lost and completely confused when we press and win the ball back. Bradley, Priso and Delgado won the ball back multiple times and had no outlets to pass to which lead to quite a few giveaways. It is like Armas has taught them the ins and outs of the high press and forgot to mention what comes next.

[jabbronies]

The only thing I can evaluate him on right now is his GK decision.

I think after that flop in Mexico, Bono should've gotten pulled the following match. But I guess Armas gave Bono the chance to redeem himself one more time. Something tells me Armas knows Once Q goes back in, he won't be coming out.

This was Bono's chance to prove that he's learned from his past mistakes and IMO he's flopped (distribution is still shit, positioning is still shit, communication is still shit). We'll see what Armas does next match.

[Ultra & Proud]

The only thing I can evaluate him on right now is his GK decision.

I think after that flop in Mexico, Bono should've gotten pulled the following match. But I guess Armas gave Bono the chance to redeem himself one more time. Something tells me Armas knows Once Q goes back in, he won't be coming out.

This was Bono's chance to prove that he's learned from his past mistakes and IMO he's flopped (distribution is still shit, positioning is still shit, communication is still shit). We'll see what Armas does next match.

This is where I am at too. This says the most about Armas' flexibility and how he will move forward. If he drives the team into the dirt by sticking with Bono no matter what then we'll tank and he will be fired before the next window. Pretty clear that on top of the Bono issues you mentioned, there's also the effect Westberg has on our defense. They all seem more relaxed and structured with him there because he knows what he's doing and ciommunicates it well. Bono's general chaos spreads out and no one is comfortable with him scrambling all over and making no sense.

[jabbronies]

This is where I am at too. This says the most about Armas' flexibility and how he will move forward. If he drives the team into the dirt by sticking with Bono no matter what then we'll tank and he will be fired before the next window. Pretty clear that on top of the Bono issues you mentioned, there's also the effect Westberg has on our defense. They all seem more relaxed and structured with him there because he knows what he's doing and ciommunicates it well. Bono's general chaos spreads out and no one is comfortable with him scrambling all over and making no sense.

I really do think Armas knows Q is the guy. I think he's doing that nice coach thing and giving him a chance. Bono has done the work to be given the chance. I get it.

To be honest, Bono hasn't been a calamity of errors. But I think when you look at the overall picture, it's clear to see his weaknesses. And because we know Bono so well, we know he hasn't changed from his 2018 form. His errors will 100% be the thing that decides games. We saw it in Mexico already.

A new coach is going to give a guy like Bono a chance to prove himself. It's just the nurturing thing for a coach to do this early on in the season.

Once Q is back in there. He'll be there for good.

[Oldtimer]

You have a fair point in all of that Ensco. And it’s why all of my posts have agreed that it’s early. But boy they look like there is no system, or organization.

It's a bit early to conclude anything, we just have a few disturbing indications but Armas could still possibly turn things around with a full squad. We should give him a chance.

However, Toronto fans being who they are, #ArmasOut is already a thing on twitter.

[Joe Kool]

I rewatched the game. We look lost and completely confused when we press and win the ball back. Bradley, Priso and Delgado won the ball back multiple times and had no outlets to pass to which lead to quite a few giveaways. It is like Armas has taught them the ins and outs of the high press and forgot to mention what comes next.

I had a hard time watching it the first time...hats off to you for sticking it out

[OgtheDim]

Part of me wouldn't mind seeing the game again, but from the NYRB feed. Don't always agree with Shep Messing but he doesn't hold back his punches if crap is crap.

[Canary10]

This was the first game I managed to watch all the way through. I agree with the sentiment on the board, we looked pretty poor. The passing in particular was horrendous. Just looked like we had no idea where anyone would be when we recovered the ball. Might be partly the new faces in the lineup, or maybe with the press that automatic knowledge of where everyone is going to be is gone. Need to sort that out fast. We did have a lot of nice interceptions deep in their end though, especially Bradley. Could easily have scored off one of those if we had any concept once we get the ball.

[Ultra & Proud]

If Armas starts Bono on Wednesday & Saturday this week and Bono is Bono then we better see Westberg @ Orlando.

If not then there's no hope for Armas. It's another Freddy Hall and Marriner situation.

[Blindside16]

What is concerning to me is when we win back the ball there is no clear form of attack. You can almost see it in their body language that they look unsure or confused on what they should do in the attacking third. I am not sure if this is due to a lack of instruction on the coaches end or the fact of a younger squad that does not have the experience necessary to make those quick decisive decisions. Both Bono and Delgado gave the ball away far to cheaply in that game. In fact I think Delgado may have completed more passes to Redbull players than his own teammates. The ball is hard enough to win at the best of times, we cannot afford to just hand it right back to them.

[ag futbol]

This was the first game I managed to watch all the way through. I agree with the sentiment on the board, we looked pretty poor. The passing in particular was horrendous. Just looked like we had no idea where anyone would be when we recovered the ball. Might be partly the new faces in the lineup, or maybe with the press that automatic knowledge of where everyone is going to be is gone. Need to sort that out fast. We did have a lot of nice interceptions deep in their end though, especially Bradley. Could easily have scored off one of those if we had any concept once we get the ball.

I thought our high press was a bit of a mirage in terms of its usefulness. Bradley, Priso, and Delgado left acres of space in front of the centre backs. The second NJ was able to get the ball into the pocket it was instant panic station defending. Heck, any time Omar had to run it looked awful. A even slightly miss weighted pass in his direction was made to look difficult.

Armas needs to take off the blinders and find the best way to win with the team he has. The system is neither good nor bad, but inflexibility will be our downfall if we don’t adapt. And to be frank, we really shouldn’t be tailoring our roster for a coach with such a limited reputation and track record.

[Joe Kool]

I thought our high press was a bit of a mirage in terms of its usefulness. Bradley, Priso, and Delgado left acres of space in front of the centre backs. The second NJ was able to get the ball into the pocket it was instant panic station defending. Heck, any time Omar had to run it looked awful. A even slightly miss weighted pass in his direction was made to look difficult.

Armas needs to take off the blinders and find the best way to win with the team he has. The system is neither good nor bad, but inflexibility will be our downfall if we don’t adapt. And to be frank, we really shouldn’t be tailoring our roster for a coach with such a limited reputation and track record.

Totally agree with you. At some point if things are not working there has to be adjustments. I really hope he is not going to be a one dimensional coach that can't adjust real time because teams will just plan for how to play us and we will be predictable and we will lose....a lot. Anyone hoping that Poz is going to step in and turn things around from where they are now is dreaming a bit. Yeah Poz has won games on his individual brilliance in the past but we have to be able to play also without him and look at least like a credible team with a plan of attack. Right now it just looks like throw 11 guys on the field and see what happens. With no system you are just relying on individual ability which there is varying amounts in MLS teams.

[jabbronies]

What is concerning to me is when we win back the ball there is no clear form of attack. You can almost see it in their body language that they look unsure or confused on what they should do in the attacking third. I am not sure if this is due to a lack of instruction on the coaches end or the fact of a younger squad that does not have the experience necessary to make those quick decisive decisions. Both Bono and Delgado gave the ball away far to cheaply in that game. In fact I think Delgado may have completed more passes to Redbull players than his own teammates. The ball is hard enough to win at the best of times, we cannot afford to just hand it right back to them.

Delgado is a transition guy. He gets the ball, he passes it off to the first cog in the attack. When Poz is playing, it's obvious where the ball needs to go. Without that first go to guy - he looks lost. I won't blame Delgado for this.

RE: Overall Confusion - I think part of the confusion is also exhaustion. These guys look tired AF

[ensco]

Over/under on the page count of this thread by Sunday night?

I think it's 8.

[Ultra & Proud]

Over/under on the page count of this thread by Sunday night?

I think it's 8.

If we win tomorrow then I say 6. If we lose tomorrow then probably about 11.

[OgtheDim]

Over/under on the page count of this thread by Sunday night?

I think it's 8.

True - It was either going to be corralled in here or within the game threads. I'm anticipating losses the next 2 games.

[portu]

If Armas starts Bono on Wednesday & Saturday this week and Bono is Bono then we better see Westberg @ Orlando.

If not then there's no hope for Armas. It's another Freddy Hall and Marriner situation.

Don't forget the Bendik, Ryan Nelsen love affair while Stefan Frei languished on the bench. Will always find the fact he wasn't given a final game to hit 100 appearances a very indicative aspect of club culture at the time. Frei was in the end basically traded (with GAM) for Jackson.

[KULA10]

I’m not bashing anyone as it’s still early

But there certainly is something wrong within the dressing room

Against RedBull not one player seemed like they wanted to play with no desire or willingness

[ensco]

Coach of the year, no?

[OgtheDim]

"Not going to kill you tonight Wesley. Still probably going to do so in the morning...."


It was better. We have shown we can beat a passive non pressing team. Armas also had them rotating a LOT which made a big difference.


Bono seems there to stay - Armas comments about him being in the upper tier show us what Armas thinks keepers should be. Sad because we could be a lot better with Q back there but that is what it is.

NYC will be a different nut to crack.

[MightyDM]

hahahah. Tonight was organized and highly competent - full credit to Armas. Moves him back into the "too early to decide' box...

[ensco]

^The Bono/Q thing is interesting. Here is my guess as to what is going on.

I think Armas has decided Bono's issue is confidence, and to give him a real commitment, ie 10-15 games.

If Bono earns the job back, great. My guess is though that if/when Bono sits, we will never see him again.

[Yohan]

^The Bono/Q thing is interesting. Here is my guess as to what is going on.

I think Armas has decided Bono's issue is confidence, and to give him a real commitment, ie 10-15 games.

My guess is though that if/when Bono sits, we will never see him again.

also puts Bono on the shopping window, if a trade is something that's being considered

[ensco]

also puts Bono on the shopping window, if a trade is something that's being considered

Ya good point.