Chris Armas Evaluation Thread

[Ultra & Proud]

And at least with Armas, he said from day 1 his strategy was all about press, press, press.

And yet we abandoned the press some matches ago. If his plan was to 'press, press, press' and we were to become a RB style press team then maybe he should have stuck to that for more than a few matches and also come up with some squad rotation. Instead he is doing exactly what got him fired from NYRB.

And if Curtis is the one who wanted us to switch to that RB type press then he should have sacked Armas already for totally losing his and the team's way. We are in no way playing anything like their pressing game minus having our CBs play way too high a line.

[Canary10]

Patrick Vieira signed with Crystal Palace. Don’t think he was ever going to take the TFC job.

[Ultra & Proud]

Patrick Vieira signed with Crystal Palace. Don’t think he was ever going to take the TFC job.

Welcome to the Championship Crystal Palace.

FWIW I didn't want him either because he's trash but a new bar for what trash is has been set here so I can't say anything.

[Canary10]

Welcome to the Championship Crystal Palace.

FWIW I didn't want him either because he's trash but a new bar for what trash is has been set here so I can't say anything.

I'm not sure how he'll do. I'll just say this doesn't look too bad for Norwich.

[Ultra & Proud]

I'm not sure how he'll do. I'll just say this doesn't look too bad for Norwich.

His post sacking comments are a lot like Armas' have been and will be; no plan, play players out of position, questionable line ups, too much tinkering, general player confusion, etc.

[ag futbol]

Sooo… he’s still here?

I’ll be remembering this as Black Tuesday, the date our entire management team officially and very publicly proved to be self-serving and incompetent.

You don’t win one game in ten and cap it off by falling 2-0 at home to the league doormat and live to tell about it.

Get ready for some dark years. It will take a while to clean out the rot.

[Canary10]

Sooo… he’s still here?

I’ll be remembering this as Black Tuesday, the date our entire management team officially and very publicly proved to be self-serving and incompetent.

You don’t win one game in ten and cap it off by falling 2-0 at home to the league doormat and live to tell about it.

Get ready for some dark years. It will take a while to clean out the rot.

In fairness, need to put "at home" in quotes.

[Ultra & Proud]

Okay since De Boer was sacked today apparently, who do you think would be the worst manager possible today?

- Chris Armas
- Frank De Boer
- Ben Olsen
- Preki

[Kamp Berg]

Okay since De Boer was sacked today apparently, who do you think would be the worst manager possible today?

- Chris Armas
- Frank De Boer
- Ben Olsen
- Preki

Can’t be De Boer, although he’s terrible, the team he was just fired from won more than one game. Pretty hard to beat Armas right now when you combine his results with his insane interviews.

[Richard]

Sooo… he’s still here?

I’ll be remembering this as Black Tuesday, the date our entire management team officially and very publicly proved to be self-serving and incompetent.

You don’t win one game in ten and cap it off by falling 2-0 at home to the league doormat and live to tell about it.

Get ready for some dark years. It will take a while to clean out the rot.

He is going to break Winter's record for worst start ever, we could easily loose another three straight. I fail to see how we win more than two games in the next five. The more they let this guy coach the worse it looks on TFC as a whole.

Ali is a guy that knows how to play the corporate game, we just got to hope MLSE see through their bullshit for what this is.

[ag futbol]

In fairness, need to put "at home" in quotes.

Fair. But still, doormat.

[jloome]

And yet we abandoned the press some matches ago. If his plan was to 'press, press, press' and we were to become a RB style press team then maybe he should have stuck to that for more than a few matches and also come up with some squad rotation. Instead he is doing exactly what got him fired from NYRB.

And if Curtis is the one who wanted us to switch to that RB type press then he should have sacked Armas already for totally losing his and the team's way. We are in no way playing anything like their pressing game minus having our CBs play way too high a line.

This piece on MLSSoccer.com today basically demonstrates it's largely down to a complete tactical failure. We already created too few chances under Vanney, but we controlled so much of the ball it didn't really matter. They've taken a system that worked, gutted it, and replaced it with nothing.

The league's official site can see it. It sort of answers the question of how to solve the problem, and yet still starts the third graf with the nonsensical, hysterically absurd phrase "The Armas era is clearly off to a difficult start."

Good grief.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/what-...ith-toronto-fc

[jloome]

Can’t be De Boer, although he’s terrible, the team he was just fired from won more than one game. Pretty hard to beat Armas right now when you combine his results with his insane interviews.

Preki was awful offensively, but the Cann-Attakora backline they didn't feel was worth resigning only averaged a goal a game against. Cann was averaging something like seven headed clearances from the box a game, among the league leaders, and Nana was among the top tacklers.

We had limited offensive options, little skill. So he wisely played as if trying to drag out a nil-nil draw every game. More troubling was his relationship to certain agents and players were brought in, guys who were clearly way out of their depth, something we saw under Mariner as well.

[jloome]

Okay since De Boer was sacked today apparently, who do you think would be the worst manager possible today?

- Chris Armas
- Frank De Boer
- Ben Olsen
- Preki

On evidence, Anthony Hudson and Mo Johnston are the worst in our team's era of the league. I don't think Ben Olsen was awful, just bad. DeBoer is a fucking nightmare wherever he goes, Armas appears utterly clueluess.

I'd throw Ruud Gullit at LA onto this list and say the worst-ever MLS managers list would probably be something like:

1. Anthony Hudson
2. Ruud Gullitt
3. Frank de Boer
4. Mo Johnston
5. Chris Armas

I use that last one probably too quickly due to personal bias, but I can't remember anyone other than De Boer who so thoroughly tanked a good team and seemed so oblivious to it.

Hudson was an awful manager of tactics, people and money. He was nightmarishly bad in Colorado. Gullit treated it like a retirement gig, often not even showing up for practice. Mo was out of his depth at every aspect, like Hudson, but nicer about it. Hudson was a prick even to the players. He's an assistant on the U.S. national team now, one more survivor of other people's hiring egos getting a pass. Or a good field coach but lousy manager, maybe.

[ag futbol]

Okay since De Boer was sacked today apparently, who do you think would be the worst manager possible today?

- Chris Armas
- Frank De Boer
- Ben Olsen
- Preki

Preki - total hard-ass, toxic, old school. But he’s the best coach on this list. Those Chivas teams were low paid but well-oiled machines, and well drilled. Toronto didn’t work out cause it was the wrong players for his philosophy (sound familiar?) and he lacked control. Also, he seems to burn bridges quickly.

Ben Olsen - like allowing your team to be managed by the family dog. He won’t screw anything up, but he also won’t add anything.

So it’s between Armas and FDB for the crown. And given FDB at least took his team out of the group stage, he seems to be less of a hinderance to performance of his players than Armas.

If only those other teams weren’t cheating by fouling on the counter and playing in a low block.

[portu]

One of the major stumbling blocks here is the lack of legit replacement. Munoz for more than 5 games is basically tanking the season. We complain about Armas’ lack of credibility, but Munoz is worse. All due respect, but who in the fuck is Mike Munoz and what qualifies him to take this team over Armas? If you’re gonna punt give it to Dichio. He’ll get the most leeway with everyone and relieve some pressure, aside from the fact that he at least knows how to talk to a camera.

If we exist in a world where somehow you justify giving Curtis and Manning the benefit of the doubt, then that likely involves accepting that Armas is the best coach willing to coach us at the moment.

[MightyDM]

I am not willing to give them leeway. It isn’t just Armas. It starts with the ridiculous communications, not addressing obvious line up weaknesses, etc. Then mishandling Jozy. Even Soteldo - love him but why his particular skills for this team. And what about Delgado? Something is off there and my bet it’s management. Should have traded him for a quality CB. Win win

[RealG-TFC]

Diego Alonso as a caretaker manager until the end of the season à la Montréal with Cabrera

[Ultra & Proud]

that likely involves accepting that Armas is the best coach willing to coach us at the moment.

This isn't true. Guys lined up to manage places like DC, Houston, and The Fire and they're garbage and cheap. Anyone with any sense can see what the problem is and it's a pretty simple fix. In fact if I was a manager I would take the job. It's a low risk high reward option. No matter what he would do better than Armas, even a dud like De Boer would. There's investment and a better squad than all of the teams out there who were looking for managers last summer.

And I still say Pinedo. I like Munoz based on the fact that he comes from Vanney roots and mainly because he isn't Armas but Pinedo is the guy I wanted since Vanney left. He interviewed and was ready for the DC job until a fancy Argie became available and if he would manage there then no reason why not here.

[Ultra & Proud]

Diego Alonso as a caretaker manager until the end of the season à la Montréal with Cabrera

I would rather have this. At least solid defensively and let the star guys figure out ways to score with the limited chances available. Plus I thought he got a raw deal in Miami. They were okay for a year one team filled with junk.

[portu]

This isn't true. Guys lined up to manage places like DC, Houston, and The Fire and they're garbage and cheap. Anyone with any sense can see what the problem is and it's a pretty simple fix. In fact if I was a manager I would take the job. It's a low risk high reward option. No matter what he would do better than Armas, even a dud like De Boer would. There's investment and a better squad than all of the teams out there who were looking for managers last summer.

And I still say Pinedo. I like Munoz based on the fact that he comes from Vanney roots and mainly because he isn't Armas but Pinedo is the guy I wanted since Vanney left. He interviewed and was ready for the DC job until a fancy Argie became available and if he would manage there then no reason why not here.

Reasons (in order of importance)
1. No roster control
2. Shit ton of deadweight money including a DP
3. Not actually in Toronto (yet)

The first reason is what probably turns most away, the second makes it an absolute shitshow to tie yourself to (especially on your first full gig), the third emphasises the bullshit you'll have to endure no matter what.

[ag futbol]

I am not willing to give them leeway. It isn’t just Armas. It starts with the ridiculous communications, not addressing obvious line up weaknesses, etc. Then mishandling Jozy. Even Soteldo - love him but why his particular skills for this team. And what about Delgado? Something is off there and my bet it’s management. Should have traded him for a quality CB. Win win

Agreed. I’ll add Omar Gonzalez was a face-plant signing. For his pay packet we should have all the bells and whistles for a top MLS CB, without the serious limitation of being slow as a turtle. Yes another situation where management had options but stuck with something familiar out of laziness.

On the replacement front, I am perfectly fine with Munoz as interim. Season is likely a write-off anyway. Dichio doesn’t show any real interest in advancing to be a head coach. If he did he’s be holding down more senior spots than he is right now. Looks like his interests are mainly elsewhere (like the commentary booth). Love the guy, but if you put him in the seat it’s for all the wrong reasons.

[Ultra & Proud]

Reasons (in order of importance)
1. No roster control
2. Shit ton of deadweight money including a DP
3. Not actually in Toronto (yet)

The first reason is what probably turns most away, the second makes it an absolute shitshow to tie yourself to (especially on your first full gig), the third emphasises the bullshit you'll have to endure no matter what.

Alonso just came from Miami with no roster control. Many MLS teams don't offer roster control. Klein doesn't in LA and Vanney went. LA had a bunch of dead weight too. For us now, Jozy is dead weight but with a new manager could play again. Vanney ressurrected Chicarito so anything is possible. We have flops like Gonzalez but he is done after this season anyway.

As for playing in Florida, some new managers might like this option. They'd be living in hotel anyway and this way they avoid dealing with immigration stuff temporarily at least. None of these would keep a manager from signing. If so there'd be plenty of manager openings or USL/US Collegiate appointees in MLS right now because most teams who would require a new manager would fail these 3 points you made.

[ag futbol]

Reasons (in order of importance)
1. No roster control
2. Shit ton of deadweight money including a DP
3. Not actually in Toronto (yet)

The first reason is what probably turns most away, the second makes it an absolute shitshow to tie yourself to (especially on your first full gig), the third emphasises the bullshit you'll have to endure no matter what.

I don’t think it is as dire a picture as you are painting. It’s probably 2 months (max) until we land in Toronto. Anyone with a bit of vision will see past that as an obstacle if we’re committing long term.

You step in as coach, you succeed a guy who is literally doing as poor a job as humanly possible. Have basically the same roster that nearly won a supporters shield last year and now has a new DP to help out the attack. You work for the team that is consistently the highest spender in MLS.

Overall, expectations are incredibly low in the short term and long run potential is very high. This is very appealing.

The only reason someone wouldn’t take this job, is if they thought their boss would be shit. And I fear that might be the sticking point here. Why else were we reportedly interviewing largely D-grade candidates like Armas and Olsen? There are only two answers here: either all our management team wants is a weak actor they can control (bad) or anyone who knows how these guys operate wants to stay clear (worse)

[Ultra & Proud]

Why else were we reportedly interviewing largely D-grade candidates like Armas and Olsen? There are only two answers here: either all our management team wants is a weak actor they can control (bad) or anyone who knows how these guys operate wants to stay clear (worse)

I think Curtis & Manning are first, very lazy with hiring and go for the simplest option and second, they are part of the old boys club that will always look for former American MLSers (players + managers) for positions. That's why guys like Armas & Olsen were interviewed in other cities last summer and why we get guys like Dwyer and Gonzalez. You can tell our FO is very MLS-centric with their hires.

[portu]

We all slate Ali Curtis. We all recognize what a hinderance management is to this roster. Chris Armas is our current coach and we had 4 months. We are in a worse situation now than before. We can’t all of sudden think the new guy is going to be any better with less time to search. If we actually think Curtis and Manning are costing us, then it’s going to be reflected in the next hire as well.

[FootBallAZ]

all of it stinks.

saddest part is , for all the signings and spending - it all goes to waste because of one arrogant, selfish steering the ship asshat.

This is so bad guys, so sad.

[MightyDM]

I think Curtis & Manning are first, very lazy with hiring and go for the simplest option and second, they are part of the old boys club that will always look for former American MLSers (players + managers) for positions. That's why guys like Armas & Olsen were interviewed in other cities last summer and why we get guys like Dwyer and Gonzalez. You can tell our FO is very MLS-centric with their hires.

This sounds true. Well put.

[MightyDM]

We all slate Ali Curtis. We all recognize what a hinderance management is to this roster. Chris Armas is our current coach and we had 4 months. We are in a worse situation now than before. We can’t all of sudden think the new guy is going to be any better with less time to search. If we actually think Curtis and Manning are costing us, then it’s going to be reflected in the next hire as well.

Good point. But something has to give. The final straw for me, (as if I needed one) was Marky. That was the worst he has played in years and was taken off at the half, then more or less called out by the coach. What is going on there? He is a really valuable and effective player in that role and something must be wrong for him to be that bad.

[OgtheDim]

Good point. But something has to give. The final straw for me, (as if I needed one) was Marky. That was the worst he has played in years and was taken off at the half, then more or less called out by the coach. What is going on there? He is a really valuable and effective player in that role and something must be wrong for him to be that bad.

I am not sure the issue is Delgado as much as it might be Bradley & the really high WB play being implemented.

Take a look again at the first goal by Cinci - Delgado got sent a decent enough pass & Bradley made a weird move that would require Delgado to quickly get around it & pass it forward. You can see Delgado look to another outlet. Yes, he muffs it. But, that muff is because there wasn't a simple outlet.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/competitio...in-06-26-2021/


To me, the inability to see Bradley's increasing shortcomings in terms of movement decisions & ability to cover ground is a problem - couple that with us going back to "Bradley swings the ball around" play & I think Delgado is being hung out to dry here a bit.