Chris Armas Evaluation Thread

[leedsandTFC]

fire him now, will have 2 DPs in by next week and the team can have a chance again.

i bet michael bradley could coach the team better ffs

[Auzzy]

Nevermind. The Chris Armas has spoken, jabronies.

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/1408978850873282565?s=20

That tweet is gone from Twitter.

[MikeForbes]

That tweet is gone from Twitter.

Yeah, looks like John deleted it because some people thought he meant that supporters are sickening. Here is what the Chris Armas had to say

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/1408983677904855042?s=20

[OgtheDim]

Nelsen - "We just got to get players fit. "

Armas - "I'm going to figure this out"

[James17930]

fire him now, will have 2 DPs in by next week and the team can have a chance again.

i bet michael bradley could coach the team better ffs

That's kind of what I'm thinking - let Bradley retire and take over as coach.

[MightyDM]

The fish stinks from the head. I don't think Manning is good enough for TFC.

True

[MightyDM]

So is it time to rename this thread the "Chris Armas Deathwatch thread"?

I feel terrible for him.

Yes

[Auzzy]

Yikes please not Bradley. How about getting somebody with experience and his coaching licenses?

[James17930]

Yikes please not Bradley. How about getting somebody with experience and his coaching licenses?

Sorry, I meant Bradley as an interim while we woo proper candidates.

[portu]

Decided to read into Armas following today in the hopes of finding some indication of positive progression for us. In case people are looking for things to pay attention to with Armas and the team read below. The conclusion is he's either the guy that led RBNY to a 2018 Supporters' Shield, or the guy who was 'meh' from 2019-2020. Regardless, he's a stubborn but likeable dude, who makes weird personnel/tactical decisions.


History

• Armas basically rode the Jesse Marsch wave to the 2018 Supporters’ Shield. The team was apparently noticeably less aggressive and clinical. Still he went 12-3-2, a remarkable run.
• He caught a lot of criticism from fans for a comparatively mediocre 2019 season, which included getting bounced in the second round of CCL and first round of the Open Cup and Playoffs. The more sane explanation for these performances was related to management's inability to reinvest in a team that lost a number of key players going into 2019 (Tyler Adams, etc).
• 2019 was basically looked at as a gimme year. He rolled into 2020 with real things expected of him. The Red Bulls squad was retooled in his image.
• However, he fumbled their league-leading fullback situation, misused key players consistently and stubbornly stuck to odd tactical decisions.
• The mid-2020 picture of Armas was characterized by a “trend of individual-level underachievement” and collective tactical confusion. Players looked lost, out of step with each other, attacks were predictable RBNY was also starving for goals.
• When he was fired there were cries that team issues went far beyond coaching (investment, organization, structure, etc).
  

Overview

• Armas views winning in MLS as rightly difficult, but seems to look at surviving matches as the ideal way to play in this league. He likes to talk about going out to win every game, but when people hold him to that he recoils into a “we can’t win every game” stance.
• 2 years into his tenure one of his common post-game tropes was that “we need to learn how to deal with X or we’re adjusting to doing Y”. Some of these quotes seriously sound the same as the stuff we’re hearing 10 games in.
• He seems to struggle to think truly critically about his team and when he does try he tinkers far too much. He makes a lot of tactically incoherent decisions and when they don’t work he decides to persist with them. (There was a point where he basically tried to use their best player, Kaku, as a super-sub).
• Scoring goals and attacking play in an Armas side has a lot to do with putting the ball into difficult areas of the box and looking for first or second chances. (See: Shaffelburg to Mullins against Leon or Bradley's goal against Columbus.)
• I really didn’t find much about injuries aside from his ominous disclosure of them. Specifically when Kemar Lawrence was healthy from November 2018 to March 2019 and Armas said he was injured to have a reason for keeping him out of the team. There was also a BWP thing for a while in 2019 that didn’t make sense.

TL;DR

• Overall, the guy appears genuinely likeable, but he is prone to making up ‘non-excuses’ and persistently odd tactical decisions.
• His 2018 form, the only season he ever won more than two games in a row, is likely what got him hired. The theory being that the post-Marsch Red Bulls did not adequately invest in their squad following key departures and thereon Armas was doomed to fail.

Reading (I found the SB Nation stuff to be far more expositive than anything you could find elsewhere)
https://www.onceametro.com/2020/2/29/21158765/the-case-for-armas-out
https://www.onceametro.com/2020/2/18...ks-on-the-outs
https://www.onceametro.com/2020/7/29...ack-tournament
https://www.onceametro.com/2019/9/1/...ch-chris-armas
https://www.onceametro.com/2020/8/20...w-york-city-fc
https://www.onceametro.com/2020/9/4/...ch-chris-armas
https://www.onceametro.com/2020/8/21/21395038/should-the-red-bulls-be-as-satisfied-with-last-nights-performance-as-they-seem-to-be

History repeats.

[Kamp Berg]

Why not let Munoz take over for the rest of the season? The worst outcome is that he goes back to coaching TFCII next year.

[SoccMan2]

Why not let Munoz take over for the rest of the season? The worst outcome is that he goes back to coaching TFCII next year.

Well TFC2 is again doing poorly like all the years they have been around , I know it’s a development team but constantly losing is not good for development. So this Munoz guy doesn’t seem like an upgrade over Armas but at this point maybe bring him in to change things up a bit as an interim coach but also need to get rid of Curtis too and send Manning packing too he is just as responsible for this mess as the other two fools.

[Ultra & Proud]

Why not let Munoz take over for the rest of the season? The worst outcome is that he goes back to coaching TFCII next year.

For me that's the easiest option. Probably not the best option but can't be worse than Armas.

No idea how Pineda off everyone's radar. Guy's been the top assistant on the best MLS team for the past few years.

[Kamp Berg]

For me that's the easiest option. Probably not the best option but can't be worse than Armas.

No idea how Pineda off everyone's radar. Guy's been the top assistant on the best MLS team for the past few years.

I think Pineda at least deserves an interview, Seattle is obviously doing a lot right. Might as well take the rest of the season to find the right fit.

[ag futbol]

I think Pineda at least deserves an interview, Seattle is obviously doing a lot right. Might as well take the rest of the season to find the right fit.

If he’s the right guy, you pounce right away. Don’t leave openings for other teams to have vacancies and create competition

[Kamp Berg]

If he’s the right guy, you pounce right away. Don’t leave openings for other teams to have vacancies and create competition

I’d rather see a new president take over and get rid of Curtis too, and let them decide. A change of that magnitude would take some time.

[portu]

I’d rather see a new president take over and get rid of Curtis too, and let them decide. A change of that magnitude would take some time.

Me too. This team needs a demanding guy with vision. I used to believe Ali was that guy but I think the way things ended at Red Bulls really fucked with him. I’ve never bought into Bill Manning.

[jimiv]

The team needs a GM with a substantial rolodex of contacts, they got what they got because of their GMs lack of reach.

[MikeForbes]

They should be calling Pineda today to see if he would accept the job. If he says yes, you call Armas and tell him thanks, but you aren't very good at this.

[reggie]

The team needs a GM with a substantial rolodex of contacts, they got what they got because of their GMs lack of reach.

Apparently our FO roledex only consist of new york city numbers

[jimiv]

Apparently our FO roledex only consist of new york city numbers

Exactly my point, some may balk at Michael Bradley as coach but I’d make the argument that he would be a better fit as our GM.

[spe18]

I’d rather see a new president take over and get rid of Curtis too, and let them decide. A change of that magnitude would take some time.

They should be calling Pineda today to see if he would accept the job. If he says yes, you call Armas and tell him thanks, but you aren't very good at this.

I have a feeling it's not that simple:

1. First of all, presuming Pineda is under contract with this current team, do we even know if they are willing to release him from it?

2. As well, if you do bring in Pineda, do bring him on a temporary basis (for which I doubt he would leave his current team for), or do you bring him on a permanent basis.

3. If on a permanent, then what is the long term vision of the club, and what role will he have in making roster related decisions?

4. Keep in mind the reason why they didn't bring in a more well known coach (i.e. Viera or Blanc) was because Manning and Curtis didn't want to lose control over the way roster decisions are made, as had been reported.

As Kamp Berg posted, it likely is that a new president is needed, to set the overall direction of the club.

Infact, I feel what's need is setups similar to Montreal or Vancouver, where they now both have "sporting directors", which I believe are the ones that makes the ultimate decisions, from coaching through to roster decisions, and anything in between. Of course, I'm no expert in that, so can't say for sure if that's they way those teams are setup.

If anyone would like to clarify on that, then please do so!

And as I mentioned in another post, the Whitecaps went through a months long world wide search process, using a consulting firm, to find their current sporing director. I really, really think the leadership @ MLSE needs to do that same thing. But they probably have no clue on this whatsoever.

Someone had also posted suggesting to bring in Mark Pennes, who only lasted a few months with the Whitecaps. However, he would only be looking after the business side of things.

[Initial B]

I just googled "what is wrong with Toronto FC" and this is what came up:

https://mlsmultiplex.com/2021/05/29/...er-toronto-fc/

[rydermike]

Well TFC2 is again doing poorly like all the years they have been around , I know it’s a development team but constantly losing is not good for development. So this Munoz guy doesn’t seem like an upgrade over Armas but at this point maybe bring him in to change things up a bit as an interim coach but also need to get rid of Curtis too and send Manning packing too he is just as responsible for this mess as the other two fools.

TFC2 isn't really doing that poorly. They're 3-4-4. All their games have been close. Really what they're lacking is (like us) a clinical finisher at striker. They're fairly solid and remember it's a team of mainly 18-21 year olds, many playing their first pro season going up against rosters of 22-28 year old players who have played pro for a few years. TFC2 is also clearly developing first and foremost, Muñoz rotates full lineups so everyone gets playing time. One game one back four will play, the next the other set of 4 will play

EDIT: change IS to ISN'T. Mistaken typo

[jloome]

TFC2 is really doing that poorly. They're 3-4-4. All their games have been close. Really what they're lacking is (like us) a clinical finisher at striker. They're fairly solid and remember it's a team of mainly 18-21 year olds, many playing their first pro season going up against rosters of 22-28 year old players who have played pro for a few years. TFC2 is also clearly developing first and foremost, Muñoz rotates full lineups so everyone gets playing time. One game one back four will play, the next the other set of 4 will play

I must admit, of the parts of three games I've watched, they've looked very organized, held control, moved the ball well.

[OgtheDim]

TFCII's problem for years has been goals against in the last 10 minutes & a poor defensive record.

They seemed to have solved the second one.

[jloome]

JUST TO MAKE IT ABUNDANTLY CLEAR how obvious all of this misfiring has been, read this thread from four months ago:

http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showth...56#post1927656

Most of us had SERIOUS trepidation, fearing exactly what would happen, basing it on their records in NY.

Manning ignored all of the warning signs and hired two guys he used to play soccer with.

[Richard]

Is he fired yet?

[MikeForbes]

Is he fired yet?

If we don't hear anything by Tuesday he will remain for another week.

[FootBallAZ]

JUST TO MAKE IT ABUNDANTLY CLEAR how obvious all of this misfiring has been, read this thread from four months ago:

http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showth...56#post1927656

Most of us had SERIOUS trepidation, fearing exactly what would happen, basing it on their records in NY.

Manning ignored all of the warning signs and hired two guys he used to play soccer with.

clearly has proven he is not the right man in charge- fuck man we want to win not keep it old boys club- this is exactly what hockey does.