TFC 2021 player in-season roster discussion

[OgtheDim]

We seem to have a group, including players, that focus on personality & past playing reputation so much to the point where current performances are something that is just going to turn around.

I would note Kemar Lawrence called out the defence for bone headed plays (although he's not perfect either) and that was very different from the normal culture of TFC (and welcomed by fans, I think)


This all reminds me of Nelsen's mantra "We just gotta get fit"

New mantra "We just gotta cut down the mental mistakes"


Both of those ignore that quality is lacking



I believe that playoffs are possible but highly unlikely unless there is a significant change in our defensive personnel - specifically Bono (who is athletic so makes a ton of saves but can't marshal a backline so paint me not as impressed in the long run by that Chicago game) & Gonzalez.

[ag futbol]

As various folks have noted, they once played together. So that bias existed before Manning considered his Red Bull term. I cant see how he would've gotten a shot again immediately at this level without that connection.

It's pretty damning when you hire a coach, Marsch, that coach then disagrees with you and the ownership group sides with the coach, not the GM.

You might be generous on the talent scouting end; his latest interview suggests he think the defense is just fine.

I mean that in a limited sense. Like if you were to just give him hours of tape and a stack of papers, he’d tell you if the player was any good or not. When you add in complications, like re-assessing a player he brought in personally or if the player is the right one to fit into a broader team, his view is warped IMO.

On the defence thing, it strikes me as another example of an overly corporate communication style. Suffice to say I’ve worked around some areas pretty close to where Ali has and it’s common practice to underplay challenges / failures. The worst people will really keep a facade of “everything is good” until denying the obvious is insurmountable (like Armas’s coaching ability). Kim Jong-un would just be described as “a client with a challenging public image”

In all likelihood he knows the defence blows.

[jloome]

I mean that in a limited sense. Like if you were to just give him hours of tape and a stack of papers, he’d tell you if the player was any good or not. When you add in complications, like re-assessing a player he brought in personally or if the player is the right one to fit into a broader team, his view is warped IMO.

On the defence thing, it strikes me as another example of an overly corporate communication style. Suffice to say I’ve worked around some areas pretty close to where Ali has and it’s common practice to underplay challenges / failures. The worst people will really keep a facade of “everything is good” until denying the obvious is insurmountable (like Armas’s coaching ability). Kim Jong-un would just be described as “a client with a challenging public image”

In all likelihood he knows the defence blows.

Maybe I'd be lousy at PR despite years in journalism but it strikes me as a strategy of compounding problems.

[ag futbol]

Maybe I'd be lousy at PR despite years in journalism but it strikes me as a strategy of compounding problems.

I share your opinion it’s a false economy. But it’s a delicate balance between being too tight fisted with info vs. airing all your dirty laundry. You certainly don’t have to come out and say every last problem (for example, disclosing your CB was arrested in a bar-room brawl in Houston).

Doing what Leiweke and Bez did is a nuanced skill. Making people feel like they are in-the-know with the team and being somewhat transparent with problems, without letting things run wild and have imaginations run amok in creating a damaging narrative.

[rydermike]

Rocco Romeo sent on loan to Valour (Winnipeg) of the Canadian Premier League
https://valourfc.canpl.ca/article/va...-romeo-on-loan

[jloome]

Rocco Romeo sent on loan to Valour (Winnipeg) of the Canadian Premier League
https://valourfc.canpl.ca/article/va...-romeo-on-loan

Is the CPL better than USL One? Too many defenders at the latter?

Weird. You'd think you loan someone to get experience. Maybe they don't see a future for him and are trying to line up a CPL club.

[OgtheDim]

CPL is tougher then USL One - its a true lower division setup he will be in as against a development set up playing against varied opposition.

[rydermike]

I think it's somewhere between USL-C and USL-1. Valour seems to get quite a few players on loan from MLS and play them. Off the top of my head James Pantemis (Montreal keeper was their starter last year and has made 7 MLS appearances this year), this year Jonathan Sirois (also from Montreal is their starter), Julian Dunn played every minute last season for them, etc

[rydermike]

“It’s one we were working on with TFC for a while,” Valour GM and head coach Rob Gale told valourfootball.club. “They’ve got an abundance of talented young central defenders and these conversations have been going on since October.

Valour had hoped to add Romeo – a product of Toronto who has international experience for Canada at the U-17 and U-20 levels – in a package deal with Julian Dunn, who played so brilliantly last year for the club at the Island Games, at the start of this season.
But Dunn was injured this spring and when TFC hired and then fired Chris Armas after just 11 matches this season and then replaced him with Javier Perez on an interim basis, well, that organization had other pressing priorities.
That, plus the fact Romeo was on loan to Danish club HB Koge through June made it impossible to get an agreement done until now.


“Like we discussed with Julian last year, we reached out and talked to them about bringing a centre-back to us this year to make sure we had the depth we needed,” said Gale. “We had discussed the pair and then Julian was injured in preseason and Rocco was on loan in Denmark, so we knew we had to wait for him to return in June and then the new coach wanted to see him in Florida, then there was the coaching change in TFC…
“So, all of that just kept putting back his potential arrival day and once we were into the bubble you couldn’t add players. We’re delighted now to have finally gotten our man."

So Valour has wanted him for a while and they wanted Dunn back as well (wonder if that could still happen)

https://valourfc.canpl.ca/article/he...o-romeo-on-loa

[Red CB Toronto]

So Valour has wanted him for a while and they wanted Dunn back as well (wonder if that could still happen)

https://valourfc.canpl.ca/article/he...o-romeo-on-loa[/FONT][/COLOR]

I would not be surprised to see the Reds do another CPL loan as guys return to the lineup from international duty etc ie Dunn. Only so much playing time can go around and some need to be playing above the USL League 1 level.

[ag futbol]

Sort of an inconsequential move but we should consider bringing in Marco Bustos on loan see if he can’t catch on as a sub on the right side of the forward line.

CPL is looking to prove they can transition players to better leagues and as we’ve seen from some USL standouts in the past, lower league success can sometimes translate to MLS.

Low risk, high potential reward. Not at all expensive. I fail to see any downside.

[rydermike]

Julian Dunn, Jacob Shaffelburg, and Adolfo Ovalle (has been training all year with first team) have been added to the TFC2 roster list on the USL1 website. They could likely be heading down for loans (every other time a first teamer appeared there, they played the next USL1 game). Next TFC2 game is August 6 at BMO Training Ground at Downsview. https://www.uslleagueone.com/toronto-fc-ii-roster

(Every other first teamer there has already played, and they don't get removed once they're there)

[leedsandTFC]

Sort of an inconsequential move but we should consider bringing in Marco Bustos on loan see if he can’t catch on as a sub on the right side of the forward line.

CPL is looking to prove they can transition players to better leagues and as we’ve seen from some USL standouts in the past, lower league success can sometimes translate to MLS.

Low risk, high potential reward. Not at all expensive. I fail to see any downside.

With Osorio and laryea back we definitely don't need someone else in there.

Soteldo, poz, osario, laryea, endoh, Gallardo already for only 3 spots.

[ag futbol]

With Osorio and laryea back we definitely don't need someone else in there.

Soteldo, poz, osario, laryea, endoh, Gallardo already for only 3 spots.

Talking about as a sub primarily. Let’s remove Solteldo, Poz, Osorio, and Laryea from the conversation. And to be fair, of all those guys, it’s really only ideal to play Laryea on the right side of the forward line. Maybe Poz ends up there and Laryea moves to fullback but still TBD.


Of the other subs options, Gallardo is just buying time until he goes elsewhere. Chances of him catching on in MLS at this point are zero. Endoh is okay. I have no opposition to his presence on the team but again, having someone compete for that spot could be healthy. Consider the upside.

[jloome]

On a hypothetical point that may speak directly to our past, I wonder how often Ali Curtis overruled Greg Vanney stupidly?

Victor Vasquez is a key part in LA this season, scored a goal for them last night, plays most nights, has been their main setup guy.

So ... does anyone think just maybe Vanney would've liked him back here, if he was willing to sign him as a STARTER in LA three years later?

Seems rational. I mean, maybe the Saudi/UAE/whatever offer was 'fuck you' money and he had to go, but I suspect as an over 30 player he wasn't getting the millions Giovinco was.

Anyway, difficult to see him playing so well for another team. Feels a bit like Drew Moor redux, as he was still a starter at Colorado for three years after leaving.

[Oldtimer]

On a hypothetical point that may speak directly to our past, I wonder how often Ali Curtis overruled Greg Vanney stupidly?

Victor Vasquez is a key part in LA this season, scored a goal for them last night, plays most nights, has been their main setup guy.

So ... does anyone think just maybe Vanney would've liked him back here, if he was willing to sign him as a STARTER in LA three years later?

Seems rational. I mean, maybe the Saudi/UAE/whatever offer was 'fuck you' money and he had to go, but I suspect as an over 30 player he wasn't getting the millions Giovinco was.

Anyway, difficult to see him playing so well for another team. Feels a bit like Drew Moor redux, as he was still a starter at Colorado for three years after leaving.

It's "Vazquez" (with 2 Zs, "Vasquez" is a different player).

As far as Curtis doing anything of substance, count me doubtful. If Vanney was overruled on anything that would have been Manning.
Anyway, I'd hate to call anything Greg does as "stupidity" considering how much LA turned around once he took over, and how much we tanked. LA is now 3rd in the West. Vanney is pretty much in charge there.

[jloome]

It's "Vazquez" (with 2 Zs, "Vasquez" is a different player).

As far as Curtis doing anything of substance, count me doubtful. If Vanney was overruled on anything that would have been Manning.
Anyway, I'd hate to call anything Greg does as "stupidity" considering how much LA turned around once he took over, and how much we tanked. LA is now 3rd in the West.

I said Ali Curtis overruling Vanney stupidly, not Vanney's stupidity.

[Oldtimer]

I said Ali Curtis overruling Vanney stupidly, not Vanney's stupidity.

That makes sense.

[rydermike]

I think I remember reading that Vazquez was offer $4 million in Qatar while here he could get max TAM of $1.5 million. (I may be remembering wrong, can't find anything confirming that on google), but he did say that he went to Qatar for money, so that $4 million could be right:
"Only two times I thought about money in my career. From Brugge to Mexico (Cruz Azul) - a mistake. And from Toronto to Qatar - another mistake,"
https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer...victor-vazquez

I believe the reason he went to Galaxy and not to us was not because we didn't want him, but because of the Allocation Order rule. We came 2nd in the league last season, so we were at the very bottom of the Allocation Order and would've had to trade GAM/TAM galore to acquire the top spot. Given the amount of high earners we have: Osorio/Omar/Bradley/Mavinga/Delgado/Bono, we might not have any excess AM to trade. It was simply impossible based on MLS's quirky rules

[jloome]

I think I remember reading that Vazquez was offer $4 million in Qatar while here he could get max TAM of $1.5 million. (I may be remembering wrong, can't find anything confirming that on google), but he did say that he went to Qatar for money, so that $4 million could be right:
"Only two times I thought about money in my career. From Brugge to Mexico (Cruz Azul) - a mistake. And from Toronto to Qatar - another mistake,"
https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer...victor-vazquez

I believe the reason he went to Galaxy and not to us was not because we didn't want him, but because of the Allocation Order rule. We came 2nd in the league last season, so we were at the very bottom of the Allocation Order and would've had to trade GAM/TAM galore to acquire the top spot. Given the amount of high earners we have: Osorio/Omar/Bradley/Mavinga/Delgado/Bono, we might not have any excess AM to trade. It was simply impossible based on MLS's quirky rules

That quote seems pretty telling. I'm probably being unfair to Curtis. I still have several bones in my craw about Vanney leaving, some of the departures we've had over the years that seemed stupid.

[rydermike]

Romeo debuted for Valour yesterday. Played the full 90

[Red CB Toronto]

Romeo debuted for Valour yesterday. Played the full 90

That is great for Rocco, he needs to be on the field to further his development. Hoping to see him crack the Reds in 2022.

[jloome]

Romeo debuted for Valour yesterday. Played the full 90

Took a bit of a beating, too. Ouch.

[rydermike]

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/RichieLaryea_/status/1421897253929820160

[Bushmancan]

By the way... Secondary Transfer Window: Wed., July 7 – Thurs., August 5, 2021 closes on Thursday. Heard any rumours or is trader Ali done.

[Ultra & Proud]

By the way... Secondary Transfer Window: Wed., July 7 – Thurs., August 5, 2021 closes on Thursday. Heard any rumours or is trader Ali done.

All 2 weeks jokes aside I would be shocked if Curtis did anything by August 5th.

For him we got Achara back from injury and the guys back from the GC and that's enough.

[jabbronies]

All 2 weeks jokes aside I would be shocked if Curtis did anything by August 5th.

For him we got Achara back from injury and the guys back from the GC and that's enough.

As soon as they window closes Achara and Altidore will both get injured for the rest of the season.

Let's hope DD and Muliniho can carry the load.

[rydermike]

The only signing I can forsee before tomorrow is Aldolfo Ovalle. Former TFC2 player who has been training with TFC since pre-season and is tight with the Spanish crew. Solteldo/Gallardo/Pozuelo/Auro. He and those guys are always posting instagram photos in their stories together

[jloome]

The only signing I can forsee before tomorrow is Aldolfo Ovalle. Former TFC2 player who has been training with TFC since pre-season and is tight with the Spanish crew. Solteldo/Gallardo/Pozuelo/Auro. He and those guys are always posting instagram photos in their stories together

He made the Spanish papers last week, was on the books with an italian club for a while, some gig in Europe that didn't work out, then wound up with us.

EDIT Chilean papers, my bad. I guess he was an u20 intl for them and was expected to produce but hasn't, really. His USL numbers weren't exactly inspiring.

[reggie]

what would be the point,we got okello and priso,ovalle is barely usl caliber,i dont know why he is training with the club all season,and he has not seen a min with tfc 2.

The only signing I can forsee before tomorrow is Aldolfo Ovalle. Former TFC2 player who has been training with TFC since pre-season and is tight with the Spanish crew. Solteldo/Gallardo/Pozuelo/Auro. He and those guys are always posting instagram photos in their stories together