TFC 2021 player in-season roster discussion

[GerMc]

Having said that, if anyone was going to call Armas out on something, it was always going to be Jozy.

My confidence in a reversal of fortune for our manager is waning. It ain't impossible, but this looks really bad. Vanney handled him for four years. The new guy hasn't been there but months, and spent two of those PRAISING Jozy's attitude.

I like this quote, “Vanney handled him for four years.” Yes, Jozy isn’t what he used to be, and has created drama in the past, but this is a flaming sign to be that Armas has lost the locker room. The coach’s job is to get players to perform, not to fight with them or demotivate them. Armas is running TFC into the ground—incomprehensible player decisions (Bono, Auro in central midfield, Delgado on the wing), an inability to change strategy when it is obviously not working, and very poor performance on the field (so poor it is hard to watch). Vanney sometimes did head scratching stuff, but he won more than he lost…a lot more. Armas has one of the highest paid teams in the league (I know we don’t have Poz back yet) but the team looks lost on the field. And that is the coach’s fault, not Jozy’s fault. I guess he blew up at Armas, but you know what…someone should! Good on Jozy for calling him out. Maybe there is some front office shenanigans going on, but how will this improve the team’s performance? Spoiler alert…it won’t.

[jloome]

Good on Jozy for calling him out.

Don't jump the gun, dude! I'm just speculating. Maybe Armas had good reason.

My worry is that it's two days before a game, which means it could be about the tactical setup for the game, which they'll be working on. If that sews doubt with the other guys, it'll have an impact against Columbus.

I mean it when I say my jury is still out on the guy; I'm not saying he's a bad coach yet, just that I'm worried and a bit perplexed by the decisions.

He's got a lot of side challenges; aging stars, a DP out, a major playmaker out, Ayo out for months, kids to incorporate who'll be a step off, Omar aging.

It would be unfair at this early stage to put it all on Armas. Maybe once we have some roster stability again, both DPs, people accustomed to the system, he turns it around.

But the worry comes from seeing the same approach from other coaches who flamed out: the need to tinker too much, the need to move players out of comfort zones, the need to try things in a laissez-faire style. It feels like I'm watching a team coached by Ben Olsen at best, Mo Johnston at worst.

[ag futbol]

Asked whether Altidore was indeed training apart from the first team due to a bust-up with Armas, GM Ali Curtis, in a text to The Canadian Press, replied: “Internal matter that we are keeping in-house

from neil davidson

And this is the problem, not the problem with Altidore we are dealing with now, but still an issue.

They still haven’t wrapped their heads around the fact they aren’t managing the equivalent of a AA baseball team in the New Jersey swap. Things happen here and people want answers.

Whatever evil they think is going to happen by being just a little more transparent, it’s not going to be better when you say nothing and leave it to random speculation to fill in the blanks. Especially with something like this.

Binoculars are now the new roller blades as we’ll have people watching for Altidore in training.

[portu]

And this is the problem, not the problem with Altidore we are dealing with now, but still an issue.

They still haven’t wrapped their heads around the fact they aren’t managing the equivalent of a AA baseball team in the New Jersey swap. Things happen here and people want answers.

Whatever evil they think is going to happen by being just a little more transparent, it’s not going to be better when you say nothing and leave it to random speculation to fill in the blanks. Especially with something like this.

Binoculars are now the new roller blades as we’ll have people watching for Altidore in training.

The lack of open availability from management to fans has been a telling sign for me. We are overdue a town hall and the current climate makes it easier than ever.

I'm frankly sick of softball questions and even weaker answers. Answers which are almost never pressed, interrogated or followed-up on. Auro hasn't played CM since he was an ACADEMY PLAYER and we have a legitimate prospect plus a multi-year MLS Cup winning starter that play CM as their FIRST POSITIONS, yet Armas has caught literally no shit from it. It's crazy to me. It's weak and it's soft and it annoys me to no end. Furthermore, it exacerbates the tensions that the seemingly idiotic managerial/tactical decisions stoke.

[jloome]

The Carlisle report is that it stemmed from him being subbed in the last game and making his mind known to Armas.

This reeks more to me of the two not getting along from day one, and they're trying to frame him as available on the transfer market. It's the only reason to leak this. I'd credit Jeff Carlisle having sources who hate his bosses but he's not based in Toronto, so it's highly unlikely he knows many staff there outside the talking heads.

They want to shed his salary but don't want to eat the last year of his deal.

[Blindside16]

Eric G seems to have the right attitude tonight

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/Eric_Giacometti/status/1398102639645188099

The sooner we get these guys all home, the better.

I just choked on my coffee watching this

[Auzzy]

Posted in the wrong thread… but there has to be more to it.. why would you ever put Jozy at RB, only to humiliate him. Now you know why they signed Dwyer (backup)… as much as a pain as Jozy may or may not be … and it may be #jozyout but organizations should treat their greats with class. I am now an #armasout #aliout this may be the end of the TFC we/I love. Even if they can turn it around, this isn’t the way an organization like MLSE should behave.

What happened to All for One.

I think "playing Jozy at RB" was just a joke?

I'm with OgtheDim and others on this. I don't have any patience or energy for it. Right now I don't trust Armas or Jozy or upper management or anyone in this situation. I can't even be bothered to "both sides" this, more like neither side.

[Ultra & Proud]

This reeks more to me of the two not getting along from day one.

For sure they never got along from day one. On Day one Armas said the forwards had to run, get in top shape, and press.

[OgtheDim]

The more I analyse what has gone on the last year, the more I think this team is missing 3 curbs to its behaviour

1. Journos at training - talking to people face to face & seeing them watch you go in and out is a thing

2. Fans having reason to complain, either in the stands or via the phone with their reps when discussing ticket options

3. Being in their home comfort zones as individuals

Not having those curbs puts the organization at a disadvantage when being able to handle stressors

*******

Almost every organization in Ontario is rebuilding and reshaping itself in one way shape or form right now - Covid has done this. People have reassessed their priorities & life isn't going to be the same. Historically, this happened after WWI & WWII but we don't remember the upheavals because people found an equilibirum that was different & moved on. e.g. the amount of strikes that happened in 1919-1921 & 1945-1948 is largely forgotten (I couild go into how Europe never settled after WWI with upheavals across most of it that led to WWII & how WWII led to the Cold War which didn't "settle" until 42 years later but...this is supposed to be a soccer forum)

All talk of "getting back to normal" that doesn't take into account the fact that things HAVE changed in the dynamic between work & life is wishful thinking (an example that has no real bearing on the Jozy situation - we are seeing a full press by the CEO class in the US through its media arms to try to get back to the way things were in 2019 & US workers are not having it).

TFC is just one of the more public groups here in Ontario that is going through all this, with the added weirdness of having to ply its trade out of the public eye mostly out of the country without its largest customer base being involved.


****

Everybody is "I just want to get a haircut" or "I just want to go to the mall" or "I just want to get a drink at a bar".

But I don't see many people thinking "I just want to go back to not taking walks" or "I just want to go back to having to do that 2 hours of commuting each day". Yes, there will be some owner/managers who can't function without face to face contact - but the beancounters behind many companies have seen that people are more productive working from home & there is a way better ROI from there then putting them back into the office - the beancounters win more often then they lose.

[ag futbol]

For sure they never got along from day one. On Day one Armas said the forwards had to run, get in top shape, and press.

Guess he forgot to mention score. At least they are following instructions...

[Ultra & Proud]

Guess he forgot to mention score. At least they are following instructions...

That's the Armas plan. Year one you press & hustle, year two you try to score, and there is no year three.

[Captain]

This disagreement between Jozy and Altidore has now even made it to the CP24 ticker. To me it's clear that Armas has lost the locker room. Jozy's in a position to stand up to Armas, he's near the end of his career, still making big bucks and just doesn't give a sh*t anymore. I think Jozy is standing up for all of them in confronting Armas. We can all see that some of Armas' decision are just out there. What is Bono still doing in net and why is Auro in the midfield? That's just a stubborn coach trying to wield his power. I'd love to hear an honest conversation from Michael right now.

[Phil744]

Michael had a great point below Jozy has no say based on that stat alone period...


@MichaelSingh94
Jozy Altidore has scored 5 goals in his last 31 matches, has been able to go 90 minutes just 6 times over that span, and he was upset about being subbed off in the 70th minute for Ayo Akinola?

[Gringo Starr]

I don't want to hear from Bradley right now, why should he be the person to have to speak on it, on an issue between club and colleague (not that I don't think he would give an honest and thoughtful response like he always does) but this pile is between Jozy, Armas and Curtis. Jozy will likely tweet cryptically, Armas has made his move isolating Jozy and Ali has proven to be a eunuch with his keeping it in house comment when the mess is in the front yard. Or maybe Manning could earn a bit of his 5 year deal. I'll be pissed if Bradley is the one who has to face the questions here

[Captain]

I don't want to hear from Bradley right now, why should he be the person to have to speak on it, on an issue between club and colleague (not that I don't think he would give an honest and thoughtful response like he always does) but this pile is between Jozy, Armas and Curtis. Jozy will likely tweet cryptically, Armas has made his move isolating Jozy and Ali has proven to be a eunuch with his keeping it in house comment when the mess is in the front yard. Or maybe Manning could earn a bit of his 5 year deal. I'll be pissed if Bradley is the one who has to face the questions here

I don't want Michael to comment on the Jozy situation but rather on the state of the locker room.

[Ultra & Proud]

This disagreement between Jozy and Altidore has now even made it to the CP24 ticker. To me it's clear that Armas has lost the locker room. Jozy's in a position to stand up to Armas, he's near the end of his career, still making big bucks and just doesn't give a sh*t anymore. I think Jozy is standing up for all of them in confronting Armas. We can all see that some of Armas' decision are just out there. What is Bono still doing in net and why is Auro in the midfield? That's just a stubborn coach trying to wield his power. I'd love to hear an honest conversation from Michael right now.

As much as I think Armas is in over his head and obviously he has no clue on how to get the best out of a decent roster, Jozy isn't some stand up guy doing his best for the team.

Jozy is about Jozy and he is for sure a locker room problem along with Armas. A guy can't spout off like he has for the past 2 years (right about the time his play went to shit) and not rub teamates the wrong way.

The absolute best case scenario would be this ending the TFC time for Armas, Jozy, & Curtis but it probably won't. I say in a few months after Armas is fired and we're rebuilding our tactical acumen, the best thing we'll be able to say about Arma's time here is that he got rid of Jozy.

[TFC1154ever]

Just a bit of inside information. Jozy has been a team cancer in the room for a while now. Vanney would just tell guys to not worry about him, but the guy has been a big problem since Gio left.

[noxx98]

Just a bit of inside information. Jozy has been a team cancer in the room for a while now. Vanney would just tell guys to not worry about him, but the guy has been a big problem since Gio left.

I think it was last year that Jozy went off on Vanney because Endoh was playing as an attacking midfielder in practice because they were resting Poz. Jozy felt that Endoh wasn't up to his standards of play.

I hope TFC and Jozy can resolve this situation ASAP - it isn't working for either of them.

[Smokecell]

This is what happens when you bring in a coach with no resume to run a team with a championship pedigree...

[jloome]

Michael had a great point below Jozy has no say based on that stat alone period...


@MichaelSingh94
Jozy Altidore has scored 5 goals in his last 31 matches, has been able to go 90 minutes just 6 times over that span, and he was upset about being subbed off in the 70th minute for Ayo Akinola?

If, as has been suggested on this board, Michael Singh is related to our new defender, it's worth noting that it's entirely journalistically unethical to cover the team.

Just a point of how the industry is supposed to work. You're not supposed to write about your own family in any professional context. That would include commenting on the performance of his employer or pretty much anything related to their job.

Also, his quote isn't actually a cogent argument. A player is just going to see it as 'coming back from injury, and I can go 90 now." If he thought he could play 90 maybe he could; maybe the team.... is trying to shed his salary and doesn't want a sale piece injured.

Also, Michael Singh has scored zero goals in zero matches, and certainly hasn't won us a cup or helped us to two finals. I'm not happy with Jozy's output as a DP but he gets more credit from me for knowing what's going on than the peanut gallery does.

[reggie]

This is what happens when you bring in a coach with no resume to run a team with a championship pedigree...

that is what you get when argo pres manning does a lazy rolodex signing in ali and ali does the same in armas

[Ultra & Proud]

Also, his quote isn't actually a cogent argument. A player is just going to see it as 'coming back from injury, and I can go 90 now." If he thought he could play 90 maybe he could

I was yelling at my TV last Saturday at around the 55th minute for Armas to pull the obviously totally gassed Jozy. Whether he thinks he can do 90 or fly, the job of the manager is to read a player's play and anyone with eyes could see Jozy was done long before he got subbed. His argument makes sense regardless of anything else because Jozy's history says he can't play 90 and when he tries, like earlier in the CCL, he gets hurt.

[jloome]

I was yelling at my TV last Saturday at around the 55th minute for Armas to pull the obviously totally gassed Jozy. Whether he thinks he can do 90 or fly, the job of the manager is to read a player's play and anyone with eyes could see Jozy was done long before he got subbed. His argument makes sense regardless of anything else because Jozy's history says he can't play 90 and when he tries, like earlier in the CCL, he gets hurt.

You're putting his injuries down to exhertion when the speculation always has been that he has too much muscle mass, leading to tears. So no, that's still not cogent. Jozy is as likely to get an injury in the 10th minute as the 70th.

Plus, there's nothing to suggest this leak is accurate. Carlisle reporting something that happened -- Jozy training aside -- is not the same as him confirming the reason why.

Whenever Altidore is raised, you shit on him. You're not wrong, from a recent job performance standard. But assuming he's always the villain is somewhat lacking in realism or nuance. I usually shit on Armas, so far, but I can concede it's still too early for certainty.

Again, Jozy helped win us a title, took us to two others. Yes, he was paid well, but he was still our guy, fought for the badge and helped us win. That deserves at least a modicum of respect.

[noxx98]

If, as has been suggested on this board, Michael Singh is related to our new defender, it's worth noting that it's entirely journalistically unethical to cover the team.

Where are you getting that they're related? I tried searching but couldn't find anything.

[jloome]

Where are you getting that they're related? I tried searching but couldn't find anything.

It was commented on here on the day Luke was signed, so probably in that thread.

I mean, maybe they're not, which is why I stated it as "if"; it may just have been a joke that I didn't get the tone of.

[OgtheDim]

I think it was last year that Jozy went off on Vanney because Endoh was playing as an attacking midfielder in practice because they were resting Poz. Jozy felt that Endoh wasn't up to his standards of play.
....

It should be noted that the person you just quoted in this thread is the person who gave us the anecdote you mentioned.

[TFC1154ever]

I think it was last year that Jozy went off on Vanney because Endoh was playing as an attacking midfielder in practice because they were resting Poz. Jozy felt that Endoh wasn't up to his standards of play.

I hope TFC and Jozy can resolve this situation ASAP - it isn't working for either of them.

That was me who posted it. I also relayed the Van Der Wiel leaving story before it broke (got called a liar twice before it became public knowledge).

Jozy’s is on his 2nd last year of his deal. He is making a lot less money next year (in actual salary). I think TFC wanted to get one more year out of him, and then sell him for whatever they could get.

He’s become unplayable, on top of most of teammates hating his guts. They might need to just pull the plug this summer. MLSE would have to pay him out, which they haven’t shown to be cheap when it comes to TFC yet.

[noxx98]

It was commented on here on the day Luke was signed, so probably in that thread.

I mean, maybe they're not, which is why I stated it as "if"; it may just have been a joke that I didn't get the tone of.

From my due diligence on some social media, Michael Singh does not appear to be of Trinidadian descent/heritage, like Luke is. It seems quite doubtful that they are related in any way.

[rydermike]

If, as has been suggested on this board, Michael Singh is related to our new defender, it's worth noting that it's entirely journalistically unethical to cover the team.

Is there are proof of that other than the last name? Singh isn't an uncommon last name, especially in a multicultural city like Toronto.

[OgtheDim]

... They might need to just pull the plug this summer. MLSE would have to pay him out, which they haven’t shown to be cheap when it comes to TFC yet.

The problem with paying him out is, the DP charge still goes against the cap & we can't bring in a DP - heck I'm not even sure we would get a roster spot.

Here's the MLS rules on buyouts

Buyout of Guaranteed Contract


A club may buyout one player (including a Designated Player) who has a Guaranteed Contract during the offseason and free up the corresponding Salary Budget space. Such a buyout is at the club's expense.

A club may not free up space in the Salary Budget with a buyout of a player's contract during the season. If a club buys out a player's contract during the season, the buyout amount will be charged against the club's Salary Budget.

In essence, a buyout just clears a player to leave without clearing up a salary amount.