Realistically we all knew that our development pathway was dog water when MAK looked good at TFC II and then went to LAFC (I suspect on Michael Bradley’s recommendation to his father).Originally Posted by jloome
Realistically we all knew that our development pathway was dog water when MAK looked good at TFC II and then went to LAFC (I suspect on Michael Bradley’s recommendation to his father).
Everybody (fans and Mgmt) need to face some facts about how elite kids view TFC. This is not just about Ali Curtis.
Almost all kids are going to try for Europe if they think they have any kind of chance to do that. I mean, it's not like the evidence supports going after the MLS dream. The top TFC Academy graduates have been Ashtone Morgan, Doneil Henry and Jay Chapman and they were journeymen, their careers didn’t inspire anyone to follow them. I wondered if there would be a Phonzie effect but it doesn’t seem that way, he was too much of a one off. (Doneil's sale to Europe could have maybe been a game changer, if he hadn’t been a bust over there, but instead it sent the message that 21 years of age is too late to get into the system over there. To the extent anyone learned anything from Davies, it's that he moved at 17, don’t forget)
What percentage of top GTA prospects do you seriously think TFC should get? I think the number is something like 10-20%. Ashtone stayed in part because he was close to his parents and didn’t want to go far away, so that is an angle.
There is a well worn highly developed path to get the chance for Europe (mostly away from TFC Academy, which, rightly, is motivated to try to deliver guys to TFC). Sygma et al have been here for a long time, putting kids in numbers in Europe for a long time.
This isn’t Dallas, where the traditional path had been to Mexico for local kids, and FC Dallas are actually creating a new path to Europe. Also we are not benefitting from the slow decline in little league baseball the way the southern US teams are.
We need to figure a niche strategy out here. Going head to head with the dream of Europe is not working.
NB: Kaye's story is vexing but a bit weird, and isn’t an Academy story at all really. He didn’t even come into the Academy until he was 19. We didn’t develop him. The story is more that TFC had him in on TFC II for 2 years and passed on him. Failure of a different kind.
Last edited by ensco; 08-21-2021 at 07:05 AM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
It’s my understanding, the story here is the player went to the club and said “what’s the path to the first team?”. When he didn’t like the vagueness of the answer, he basically demanded to be cut loose and decided to take his chances in USL Pro rather than stick around here. Pretty damning but speaks to several of the biggest problems with TFC’s development pathway:
1. Players we develop rarely appear game ready out of the gate. Priso is only player I recall in recent history where there was a fairly high degree of confidence we could give him time without hurting the team. Not sure what they are doing at TFC2 / TFCA but it’s not working.
2. We rely too much on unspectacular veterans options like Morrow, Mullins, DeLeon, Endoh, etc. The goal is always to immediately solidify the team and we never seem to have an eye for the future. Even when the performances of these players are lagging we never seem to adjust our approach.
There are so many examples of this but to continue the theme, our striker pool is probably the worst in MLS. We have a kid that was good for a goal a game at the USL One level and on loan, with a consistent run of games, was able to score in USL-C at 19. Those are all the requisites you would look for to get someone into first team football in MLS.
Do we give him any meaningful run of games? Nope.
Kaye is just a simple but monumental talent evaluation mistake. To have had him for two years, and see what he did almost from day one at LAFC…
The mistake was probably a result of being overly “committed” to Delgado. A bit tricky to be fair, as Delgado is a very nice MLS player…. but not someone who should have blocked Kaye.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Part of it is on Vanney, whose view on players is more similar to Jose Mourinho than Wenger. He prefers mature players rather than kids who might not be physically or mentally ready.
It might have been a reason why Ali didn’t mind Vanney leaving for LA, because we need a coach who is willing to give kids a chance and allow them to thrive through mistakes that can cost us points.
our vets like delgado,zava,auro gonzo mavinga.have cost us points all season,but thats ok i guess,jus play some kids the rest of the way
Given that Sigma is a private academy and doesn't benefit from the same kind of training remuneration under FIFA regulations as a team academy, you'd think MLSE would've had the stones to buy Smyrniotis out and turn Sigma into their academy.
He's never going to make millions off those future transfers, they potentially are.
So pay the man out, give him an enormous chunk of money to keep doing what he's doing but have the kids under TFC's auspices. As they're officially club connected, at least then the developers get a chunk of money if they're sold on by their first club.
Perhaps his intention is to eventually turn it into the academy for Forge, but until the CPL starts spending competitively on their rosters the league will never grow enough to be considered a feeder to anything but USL and MLS, and kids that would follow a Sigma-to-Europe path aren't going to be interested in signing papers for Forge.
If the infrastructure works and the best kids come in, they'll get the Euro shot at 17 no matter what, as long as MLSE gets its cut. It's only the kids who don't make that who then have the option of still working towards TFC.
Moving away from paid academies or places that won’t chase European clubs for TC honestly just makes it harder for players to move. Players easily jumping to Europe from their MLS clubs is part of why MLS is embracing FIFA regs. Foreign clubs don’t want to pay a fee for an academy player to slot into their second teams. Solidarity is a different matter because it’s contingent on transfers, but still might provide a negligible return relative to MLSE’s investment into Sigma, let alone the corps revenue as a whole. As a talent acquisition move for TFC it would be a good idea, but from a business perspective I’m not sure it holds water.
Possibly, yeah. Depends a lot on how much it would cost them. I mean, as a long-term investment it would likely eventually pay for itself, but it might take a few decades.
Given that we're 'throw shit at the wall' bad, I think we should try the 5-3-2 in the next game, send a message the Gonzalez and Zavaleta's performances aren't good enough.
--------------------Q---------------------
-------Auro--Mavinga--Morrow/Dunn--------
Laryea------------------------Lawrence
----------------Delgado----------------
---------Osorio-------Soteldo-------------
---------------Pozuelo--------------------
----------------Achara-----------------------
Have Delgado as a holder, rather than a no 8, as he's a decent defender but his passing has been shit this year.
The big problem with this is that we have two DPs in Pozuelo and Soteldo who don't really play defense. On a possession team in a possession league that's doable, here not so much.
But Soteldo tries harder to win possession back than Pozuelo, so I figure we play him next to Osorio, Pozuelo as a false nine. Let a new group embarrass themselves on defence. Morrow and Auro are both pretty good defenders; the former is slower than he was but still quicker than Gonzalez, and the latter is short. But ... necessity being the mother of invention and all that....
EDIT: the more I break it down, the better this seems. Defensive assignments are much simpler and more skill responsive. Rather than play a full overlap we have Richie stay deep until the play is unbalanced to the other side of the pitch. When he’s caught high, rather than having the holder slide over to cover, opening up the Center, we have the other fullback slide over and cover the far post, the left defender covers the near post, auro slides over to cover left back, and Mavinga ALWAYS tracks the most dangerous aerial threat.
And we can use the diamond up top so that all three mids and the false nine can pivot in three directions, making it much tougher to tie them up with a block.
Last edited by jloome; 09-01-2021 at 01:27 PM.
I like this.
Does anyone know why Jackson-Hamel didn't make it in Montreal?
He wasn't picked up by anyone this season, but when I saw him play, he always looked dangerous, and he had 15 goals in the equivalent to 32 games (he appeared in 77 but only had 2964 minutes total, equivalent to 32 games)
That's a really good strike rate for a youngish Canadian striker. On top of that, when he was down a level, he scored 14 in 25 games but that was on 1911 minutes, lowering the per-game equivalency to 21 games.
So basically, in the equivalent of 53 games as a pro, he's scored 29 goals. (That's 197 minutes per goal in MLS, and 137 minutes per in USL-C. That averages out at our level to an eighteen goal season.)
And yet he isn't playing anywhere?
Also noticed Frank Sturing, the Den Bosch defender who got a couple of Canadian caps this year, is out of a deal in Holland and has been free for over a month.
We can sign free players outside the window, right? We have little firepower upfront and need defensive depth. Surely we have enough cap space for a couple of short-term deals with a prospect for something longer if they perform? Or is our roster fixed now? Would we have to loan someone out, because I'm sure there are CPL teams willing to free up a couple of roster spots.
Last edited by jloome; 09-01-2021 at 01:52 AM.
MLS Roster Freeze is September 15. So they have two weeks to add eligible players on a free
Apologies if this is not the appropriate thread, but for those interested, Mavinga's world cup qualifier will be available live on YouTube tomorrow at 9 am.
DR Congo v Tanzania | FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022 Qualifier | Full Match - YouTube
100% Jackson-Hamel is better than Dwyer. That's not even a contest. If we can afford anything at all, we should give it to him.
Sturing I don't really know much of but could he be any worse than Gonzalez, Zavaleta, or Singh?
In Dwyer's prime, when he was a DP and averaging fifteen goals a season, his scoring rate was around one goal every 177 minutes, pretty close to what Jackson-Hamel's was in limited duty.
Part of the issue, from reading back, is that Jackson-Hamel had a shot starting under Remi Garde and went dry. He tends to score in bunches. But most seasons, he got junk minutes. So he never really got a prolonged shot at leading the line, despite his impressive scoring rate.
He's equally consistent for Canada, scoring three in nine appearances. So probably never a first-choice striker, if he isn't consistent, but definitely a scoring threat if he gets service. And who knows, maybe he would develop some confidence and consistency if he was left in there and had someone feeding him. It's not like the Impact had a ton of good providers.
We don't have many scoring threats right now, I can't see how it could hurt.
Unless he's a stand up target forward who can find space & lay off from there, Hamel is not worth bringing in right now. The team plays a certain way & Hamel isn't going to change that.
He’s six foot two, he could easily fill that role, although it’s only half what we need. We need a striker who’s a threat when he gets in the box, his numbers say he is one.
I’m just confused why this guy doesn’t have a club right now. Slightly too old / slightly too Canadian / no green card ? Hanging them up early? Injury issues?
He’s not that bad.
Possibly slightly too Canadian for our FO but maybe we're just keeping the status quo so no extra contracts and a chance (in theory) to run everyone out so the next GM & manager have some tape to assess in the offseason and decide on who to cut/keep.
I don't get the sense he's a Jack McInerney, which is to say someone so cancerous in personality no one wants him on their team for more than a few months. But there's another example of a consistent goal scorer nobody wants.
Kei Kamara was the same way but always managed to find another club. There's a reason he had eleven of them, or something.
But Hamel was at the same club his whole career. I just think some guys don't have the personality they're looking for, or sell themselves poorly, or have holes in their game a coach can't get over.
One thing I do know: in forty-plus years of watching football, whenever you have a striker that scores at a consistent clip, he'll do it wherever he plays. I tried flagging TFC when Beirne was still here to Camilo Sanvezzo, who was playing in MALTA at the time, but had 49 goals in 50 appearances, or somethign ridiculous like that. He'd scored at every level in Brazil before then, he just hadn't made the cut.
The only things that stop a natural goal scorer are age, bad manners or bad management.
Last edited by jloome; 09-02-2021 at 09:39 AM.
I could have sworn Hamel retired
EDIT: Yep https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianPL/...riker_anthony/
Last edited by Areathrasher; 09-02-2021 at 11:32 AM.
That’s only a month old. I imagine being without a team for six months probably influenced it. Ah well, at least he has a pizza joint to fall back on.
Are we using Soteldo poorly in the same role as at Santos? He told the Venezuelan papers this week he thinks he’s the solution to who should be Josef’s strike partner.
Martinez was also a winger prior to MLS, with no real scoring credentials.
Maybe he’d serve us better upfront as an out and out striker ? Isn’t going to win much in the air but then neither does Martinez.
I've been thinking that for a while. I know historically we always try to shoehorn players in different places to fit our formation rather than adopt one that suits what we had but as soon as we signed Solteldo, I envisioned him being used like we used Giovinco along with Jozy in the much dreaded 2 forward set up.
On the Jackson-hamel conversation, I do find the goals per 90 stats a bit misleading at times. What really crystalized the issue for me was seeing T. Ricketts for us. He scored some amazing goals, and had a decent scoring rate, but only when he came on as a sub. When he started, he could barely find the back of the net. He was half a step faster than most, his control was horrible and he needed 5 shots on net to score one. When he came on as a sub, that half step turned into a full step, which covered up for his lack of control, and we were usually pelting the opposing net trying to score a goal in the final 15. So he scored a good chunk of goals, but did nothing when he started. I would put mullins in this category as well, I wonder if he has ever scored when he has started a game for us.
I wonder if this was a similar issue with jackson-hamel, based on his stats highlighted above. He always seemed great against us though so it does surprise me as well that he couldn't find a team.
It is funny you say that because I figured before we got Solteldo that Achara was our future LM/LW I would be interested in seeing that with their roles reversed, augmented occasionally with a bigger target Striker every now and then..
We need to convince him to be more direct. Get the shot in earlier or make the quick pass. He’s in a position to do this, just needs to adjust his mentality.
But stepping back this was an odd signing for the team. We needed someone in the mould of a Tajon Buchanan but instead picked up a playmaker that happens to setup on the left flank.
Maybe the right position (arguable given CB and ST needs) but the wrong profile. We’re just getting by on the fact he’s a straight baller.
Good point dude, might've stepped it up as a late sub a lot because the other team was tired but would explain why Garde didn't fancy him as a starter.
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