TFC 2021 player in-season roster discussion

[jloome]

Question:
Why did TFC II sign Kevin Politz, a 25-year-old former Red Bull NY player who didn't make MLS and in fact had been dropped by his USL side?

What untapped Ali Curtis genius explains this? I mean, I'd never suggest it's something from the Maclean school of greasy kickbacks or some such thing, but the question bares asking: why?

Why, after cutting his older and more experienced brother, did we sign Chilean Nicholas Ovalle to a TFC II deal (and resign him in December) when he was cut by his U20 club in Chile, and has never signed as a pro? He's an international roster hit if he ever makes it.... which he won't, judging by a sole two-minute appearance this year.

Why did we sign 23-year-old Spanish player Enric Bernat, who was cut from Lieda Esportu in the Spanish Fourht division and was ... you guessed it, without a club? Again, if he could make TFC, which clearly he won't, he would be an international hit.

What's going on here? Is Ali Curtis really so delusional as to think he can just take flyers on guys who are old enough to be first teamers already, then consign them to USL when it's clear he was wrong?

The same is true of Garrett McLaughlin, TFCII's leading scorer. He's 23 and has already had shots at MLS level, and twice in the USL-C, where he couldnt' score to save his life.

Even Gallardo you have to question. He had 13 goals at Zamora in the Venezuelan First Division, which even though it's not a great league sounds like a lot of goals....until you consider that was across 120 games. He literally was good for three goals and six assists a season at a lower level and is 25.

What the hell is this? What shell game bullshit is going on here, exactly, that our dev team roster is loaded with no-hopers?

[Richard]

Curtis is what I call a corporate bullshit artist.

I saw it right from the beginning, just the way he speaks he waffles about nonsense.

This guy thinks he some genius who see's all those mid 20 year old's as some rough diamonds. Give me a break.

[jloome]

Curtis is what I call a corporate bullshit artist.

I saw it right from the beginning, just the way he speaks he waffles about nonsense.

This guy thinks he some genius who see's all those mid 20 year old's as some rough diamonds. Give me a break.

Either that or he thinks they'll pace the younguns.

Totally ridiculous either way. I mean, what on Earth is the point of having them compete for spots with guys they're mostly already more talented than at 19?

One of the reasons it looks financially fishy is that every one of them had been cut by MULTIPLE clubs other than Gallardo. What possible chance does any of them have? Some of them, like the Ovalle brothers, aren't even getting minutes in USL-One, so there's zero chance they'll ever make MLS.

[reggie]

lets go curtis...you got 24hrs to pull 4 rabbits out of your ass,2 cbs a dm and a striker.

[gracos]

lets go curtis...you got 24hrs to pull 4 rabbits out of your ass,2 cbs a dm and a striker.

add to that getting rid of some deadweight players, Curtis must make difficult decisions or the decision will be easy he and Manning must leave

[Phil744]

It is so unexpectable that this management group has done nothing during this transfer window to fix the CB position especially from last nights performance and all year.

[Kamp Berg]

It is so unexpectable that this management group has done nothing during this transfer window to fix the CB position especially from last nights performance and all year.

I expected it. The only thing Manning is good at is covering his ass. The only thing Curtis is good at is fooling himself.

[rydermike]

What the hell is this? What shell game bullshit is going on here, exactly, that our dev team roster is loaded with no-hopers?

I don't mind some of those "no-hopers" on TFC2. You need some older players on those teams to have the team not do terribly. If TFC2 was just full of teenagers with potential, they'd get destroyed and that would definitely not help their confidence, like was happening when they were in USL-C before USL1 was created. So guys like Politz/McLaughlin/Bernat and even Caleb Patterson-Sewell are mainly there to help the team, even though they're not going to rise above that level. And you need guys like that for the veteran presence, mainly help the younger players with the intro to pro life. I've watched about two-thirds of the TFC2 games (haven't paid close attention), but those guys do help to provide some stability, even a guy like Politz must be a good voice in the room, since he often wears the captain's armband.

TFC2 wasn't sure to be participating until relatively closer to the season start date, so it's not too surprising that some of their 'veteran' players were the leftovers and ended up going with guys they were familiar with (ie. Bernat who previously was on trial with the first team). Not that it matters much, since he's probably unlikely to ever make the jump as you mention, but to look at the positive sides, Ovalle wouldn't occupy an international slot, he grew up in the US and has a Green Card according to wiki. The older Ovalle was one of the better players for TFC2 in 2019, was captain, and has been training with the first team even in 2020, so he could have some potential first team ability. Also, reading his wiki page, doesn't appear like Bernat got cut from the fourth tier (actually third tier), but instead looks like two clubs he was at in a row had financial issues and he wasn't getting paid, so some of his club hopping looks to be money related, but from the games I've watched, he's never going to be more than a USLer.

[Areathrasher]

Miami are shopping their whole roster for Garber Bux due to the fines that are coming from next year. If LGP or Figal arent on the TFC roster by end of day Manning and Curtis should be shot in the sun for negligence.

[ag futbol]

Miami are shopping their whole roster for Garber Bux due to the fines that are coming from next year. If LGP or Figal arent on the TFC roster by end of day Manning and Curtis should be shot in the sun for negligence.

Honestly, if they are going to be so punitive they should just force them to sell the team or tell the owners to cut a cheque to the league for their actions.

MLS is screwing over the fan base who are an innocent party here.

[reggie]

I don't mind some of those "no-hopers" on TFC2. You need some older players on those teams to have the team not do terribly. If TFC2 was just full of teenagers with potential, they'd get destroyed and that would definitely not help their confidence, like was happening when they were in USL-C before USL1 was created. So guys like Politz/McLaughlin/Bernat and even Caleb Patterson-Sewell are mainly there to help the team, even though they're not going to rise above that level. And you need guys like that for the veteran presence, mainly help the younger players with the intro to pro life. I've watched about two-thirds of the TFC2 games (haven't paid close attention), but those guys do help to provide some stability, even a guy like Politz must be a good voice in the room, since he often wears the captain's armband.

TFC2 wasn't sure to be participating until relatively closer to the season start date, so it's not too surprising that some of their 'veteran' players were the leftovers and ended up going with guys they were familiar with (ie. Bernat who previously was on trial with the first team). Not that it matters much, since he's probably unlikely to ever make the jump as you mention, but to look at the positive sides, Ovalle wouldn't occupy an international slot, he grew up in the US and has a Green Card according to wiki. The older Ovalle was one of the better players for TFC2 in 2019, was captain, and has been training with the first team even in 2020, so he could have some potential first team ability. Also, reading his wiki page, doesn't appear like Bernat got cut from the fourth tier (was actually in third tier), looks like two clubs he was at in a row had financial issues and he wasn't getting paid, so some of his club hopping looks to be money related, but from the games I've watched, he's never going to be more than a USLer.

curtis has done ok with TFC2,because he is a usl caliber gm

[Oldtimer]

Honestly, if they are going to be so punitive they should just force them to sell the team or tell the owners to cut a cheque to the league for their actions.

MLS is screwing over the fan base who are an innocent party here.

This is not unique to MLS. Juventus was forced to be relegated when Italy had a match-fixing scandal.
If you're going to cheat to win, the league will make you lose. It could be argued that's the only way to erase cheating from any sport.

[Kamp Berg]

Miami are shopping their whole roster for Garber Bux due to the fines that are coming from next year. If LGP or Figal arent on the TFC roster by end of day Manning and Curtis should be shot in the sun for negligence.

I thought they should have pursued LGP when he was leaving Atlanta. Unfortunately, Curtis is so laborious and exhausting, the other GMs probably avoid him when possible. At the end of the day, people want to work with people they like, or at minimum, people they respect. I doubt Curtis is liked or respected.

[Ultra & Proud]

At the end of the day, people want to work with people they like, or at minimum, people they respect. I doubt Curtis is liked or respected.

I bet he's neither respected or disliked. Probably most GMs have never spoken to him other other than a few times back in the day when they had Superdraft combines. I am sure he is as invisible amongst MLS people as he is with us. He is like that office guy who when they retire nobody knows who he was or what he did there.

[Kamp Berg]

I thought they should have pursued LGP when he was leaving Atlanta. Unfortunately, Curtis is so laborious and exhausting, the other GMs probably avoid him when possible. At the end of the day, people want to work with people they like, or at minimum, people they respect. I doubt Curtis is liked or respected.

Yeah, you are probably right. I just find him so repugnant that I assume most people would at least find him annoying. It’s pretty bad when every time you hear someone speak you immediately tune them out because it sounds like they’re spewing bullshit.

[jloome]

I don't mind some of those "no-hopers" on TFC2. You need some older players on those teams to have the team not do terribly. If TFC2 was just full of teenagers with potential, they'd get destroyed and that would definitely not help their confidence, like was happening when they were in USL-C before USL1 was created. So guys like Politz/McLaughlin/Bernat and even Caleb Patterson-Sewell are mainly there to help the team, even though they're not going to rise above that level. And you need guys like that for the veteran presence, mainly help the younger players with the intro to pro life. I've watched about two-thirds of the TFC2 games (haven't paid close attention), but those guys do help to provide some stability, even a guy like Politz must be a good voice in the room, since he often wears the captain's armband.

TFC2 wasn't sure to be participating until relatively closer to the season start date, so it's not too surprising that some of their 'veteran' players were the leftovers and ended up going with guys they were familiar with (ie. Bernat who previously was on trial with the first team). Not that it matters much, since he's probably unlikely to ever make the jump as you mention, but to look at the positive sides, Ovalle wouldn't occupy an international slot, he grew up in the US and has a Green Card according to wiki. The older Ovalle was one of the better players for TFC2 in 2019, was captain, and has been training with the first team even in 2020, so he could have some potential first team ability. Also, reading his wiki page, doesn't appear like Bernat got cut from the fourth tier (was actually in third tier), looks like two clubs he was at in a row had financial issues and he wasn't getting paid, so some of his club hopping looks to be money related, but from the games I've watched, he's never going to be more than a USLer.

While I won't argue the logical purpose of competitiveness, you're being awfully forgiving of who they chose.

According to Transfermarkt, Lieda is tier four, segunda two, although maybe they've gone down since he was there. Either way, he's not going to make it.

As for Ovalle senior, they released him from TFCII. If he's anywhere near making the main roster that would seem an odd move. His younger sibling has made ONE appearance.

Politz was almost an MLS level player (he stuck at NY for a while) so I can see that for leadership.

But let's be clear here, we already have multiple prospects in their twenties who haven't made jump yet to the main team and possibly won't. TFCII only has nine teenage players on its 30-man roster; take away Luke Singh and Ralph Priso as loan players, as they're almost first-team ready, and it's seven.

SO these aren't kids being led to the slaughter, they're mostly the same age as other USL-1 squads. The fifteen oldest players range from 21 to 34, all at the age where they should already be able to compete for an MLS squad.

Yes, football has the odd late bloomer but generally, if someone is showing Tier 3 talent in their twenties, they're not going to make MLS. Even Tyler Pasher, who didn't make it as as striker until age 26, only went down to USL-C (and was effective as hell there. Hamilton is scoring goals regularly in that league).

So there's not a lot of 'protecting' necessary in this. This is mostly taking flyers on guys who might've been missed and getting it wrong on all of them... or not caring as much about their playing potential as, perhaps, their attitudes and the positivity they might bring to the younger players.

Seems a specious way to build a development team.

EDIT: Although, good point on the timing. It might have been too last minute for Curtis to handle anything more. Given how little he's affected the senior roster, that wouldn't surprise me.

And maybe he's keeping OValle around as it costs nothing and Pozuelo likes him. The Spanish guy, Bernat, might also be a hedge against Poz being homesick; English clubs have a long history of signing guys to keep a star comfortable.

[gracos]

Curtis should look into trading Altidore plus cash for Lionel Messi, Barca isnt able to come to an agreement with Messi

[OgtheDim]

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1423351075411841024

[gracos]

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1423351075411841024

Anyone else 2nd this but Curtis Manning dont make any moves whether in and or out then they are complacent and we as a fanbase should be unforgiving and see them out of the club

[Redcoe15]

Now wouldn't this look nice?

[Bushmancan]

^that is pretty pathetic.... talk about a no news day!!!

[Bushmancan]

Anyone else 2nd this but Curtis Manning dont make any moves whether in and or out then they are complacent and we as a fanbase should be unforgiving and see them out of the club

2nd and 3rd and 4th for the rest of my family and members.

[ElvistheEvilScotsman]

Ali Curtis has never heard of Messi nor should he as he has a club stacked full of the worlds best players at TFC. 🤣

[Richard]

Curtis would spend a month checking Messi references to see if he has a good personality.

MLSE, BACK UP THE BRINKS TRUCK! DO US A SOLID!

[OgtheDim]

^that is pretty pathetic.... talk about a no news day!!!

EVERY single team account around the world from the lowest to the highest is riffing on this news this afternoon (well maybe not Real Madrid). Ripping on TFC for this is curmudgeonly

[rydermike]

While I won't argue the logical purpose of competitiveness, you're being awfully forgiving of who they chose.

According to Transfermarkt, Lieda is tier four, segunda two, although maybe they've gone down since he was there. Either way, he's not going to make it.

As for Ovalle senior, they released him from TFCII. If he's anywhere near making the main roster that would seem an odd move. His younger sibling has made ONE appearance.

Politz was almost an MLS level player (he stuck at NY for a while) so I can see that for leadership.

But let's be clear here, we already have multiple prospects in their twenties who haven't made jump yet to the main team and possibly won't. TFCII only has nine teenage players on its 30-man roster; take away Luke Singh and Ralph Priso as loan players, as they're almost first-team ready, and it's seven.

SO these aren't kids being led to the slaughter, they're mostly the same age as other USL-1 squads. The fifteen oldest players range from 21 to 34, all at the age where they should already be able to compete for an MLS squad.

Yes, football has the odd late bloomer but generally, if someone is showing Tier 3 talent in their twenties, they're not going to make MLS. Even Tyler Pasher, who didn't make it as as striker until age 26, only went down to USL-C (and was effective as hell there. Hamilton is scoring goals regularly in that league).

So there's not a lot of 'protecting' necessary in this. This is mostly taking flyers on guys who might've been missed and getting it wrong on all of them... or not caring as much about their playing potential as, perhaps, their attitudes and the positivity they might bring to the younger players.

Seems a specious way to build a development team.

EDIT: Although, good point on the timing. It might have been too last minute for Curtis to handle anything more. Given how little he's affected the senior roster, that wouldn't surprise me.

And maybe he's keeping OValle around as it costs nothing and Pozuelo likes him. The Spanish guy, Bernat, might also be a hedge against Poz being homesick; English clubs have a long history of signing guys to keep a star comfortable.

Yeah, I tried to be as positive as I could be. I try to be more positive about lower tier players who are fighting to just stay in the business and live the dream, barely making (if even that) enough to actually continue with the sport instead of quitting, since I had a couple friends play in the lower divisions around the world and always admired their dedication to the sport and delaying getting a 'nine-to-five' as long as they could.

Spain introduced a new division 3 this year (21/22), which pushed everything down a tier, so Bernat was in tier 3 with Lleda, so that explains the discrepancy. The '15 oldest being between 21 and 34' is stretching the "experience" a bit, since the second oldest is 25, Patterson-Sewell is an outlier at 34. Only five players (McLauglin/Politz/Bernat/PattersonSewll/Vaikla) have any non-TFC2 pro experience, two of whom are keepers. The rest of the 21-25 crew are MLS Draft picks or 21/22 year old academy guys who out-aged the U19 team.

When I had mentioned 'teenagers led to slaughter no-hopers' that was meant to support the addition of the 'no-hoper' players who are never going to be first teamers, since you initially seemed disappointed that there were players without any future first-team prospects there. If we only included players with potential first-team futures, then it would only be a team of teenagers. Every homegrown player on our roster signed as a teenager. Plus, since they have 25 players on the roster, it's obvious not all 25 will make the first team, I feel a successful venture would be signing 2-3 first-teamers per year to support (ie. 2019 Shaff/Akinola, 2020-Nelson/Priso/JMR 2021-Perruzza/Singh/Okello - some of those guys signed earlier but I put their first main contribution), so the entire 25 man roster doesn't need to be full of potential players, maybe half have MLS potential of which 5/6 will realize it, which when I look at the team is how it's structured.

I don't view it as them taking flyers or the wrong way to build a development team. In fact, it's the ideal way to build it. It's putting guys there to help those other players develop - guys who know their roles and how to do it (think of Mullins yesterday talking to Perruzza a few times during the game). A guy like McLauglin (23) won't make the first team, but for a midfielder like Essoussi(20)/Antonoglou(20) to develop properly they need a striker who is going to make the right run/finish the chances consistently. Developing a defender like Franklin (18), a keeper like Patterson-Sewell (34) and CB Politz (25) can help him understand his positioning properly. That's the ideal way to build a development team combine the players with potential and give them leeway to make errors, and support them with the 'known quantities' who will do the things those guys need and utilize squad rotation to adjust for who you're developing that game. If everyone is learning, then they won't grow because there will be too many mistakes and you'll be like is he a bad player or are his teammates just bad.

Now, if it's a flaw in our homegrowns not being good enough, that's not completely a TFC2 issue that's more of a TFC U12-U19 problem. (Thinking of guys like Dunn/Romeo/Fraser/Nelson who haven't really shown promise after 'making it') TFC2 is supposed to be the icing, but our issue might be with the cake, considering places like Sigma are so much better than us at producing quality.

[gracos]

I hope we keep them accountable, maybe a few tifos showing the greed of the current ownership or the nonsensical approach that our team is perfect and needs no changes, TFC is only worrying about profits and not the performance on the pitch

[rydermike]

It's not just us guys

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/FCDallas/status/1423347597058662407

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/SportingKC/status/1423373335954698242

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/realsaltlake/status/1423352504910110723

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/NERevolution/status/1423344137626075140

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/WhitecapsFC/status/1423345891381956611?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[Richard]

If I had to make a bet La Liga will bend the rules and allow Barcelona to keep Messi for one year, but that's it.

FCB and RMD are both bankrupt, and need to be punished for capitulating the way have financially.

[jloome]

MLS is uniquely suited to signing him in one regard/ like Beckham, they can offer him his own franchise.

For Becks that was considered a $10m bonus. Now, it would be more like $200m.

Of course they won’t do that, as he’s 34, and that’s one less franchise to sell.(probably shouldn’t either).

So he’ll probably wind up at Citeh. No room for jimmy grimble these days.