TFC 2021 player in-season roster discussion

[Auzzy]

So we have less then 2 weeks left in this transfer window & not a single peep or hint of anything being done. Maybe good we are not hearing leaks but we got issues that need to be resolved in the back.

If this brain trust comes out of this window saying "oh, we are OK in the back" they are either blind or lying.

Yup, I was just thinking about that as well. MLS Secondary Transfer Window: Wed., July 7 – Thurs., August 5, 2021. We desperately need CB help.

With Ayo out for the season, and Dwyer really not doing it especially as a lone striker, we really need help there as well. As ensco mentioned elsewhere, Dwyer can sometimes do a decent job of supporting others. But if we're dependent on Jozy being healthy for more than 45 minutes of each game for the rest of the season, we're pretty much screwed.

I have no idea what the cap situation is like, or if any trades make sense. If they only have room for one move, it should be CB first.

[MightyDM]

Yup, I was just thinking about that as well. MLS Secondary Transfer Window: Wed., July 7 – Thurs., August 5, 2021. We desperately need CB help.

With Ayo out for the season, and Dwyer really not doing it especially as a lone striker, we really need help there as well. As ensco mentioned elsewhere, Dwyer can sometimes do a decent job of supporting others. But if we're dependent on Jozy being healthy for more than 45 minutes of each game for the rest of the season, we're pretty much screwed.

I have no idea what the cap situation is like, or if any trades make sense. If they only have room for one move, it should be CB first.

Judging from last year and who is still in the roster, we have cap issues. So someone will have to be moved and really that’s midfield where we are blessed and need to create space for Priso and OKello to blossom. It may not happen buts that the only way I can see to add a quality CB.

[OgtheDim]

They're going to say that the players coming back from the Gold Cup are essentially our transfer additions

I'd laugh but they will say that about Achara.

[MightyDM]

I'd laugh but they will say that about Achara.

Manning and Curtis have lost the confidence of the hardcore supporters. Wonder what senior management are thinking.

[daner90]

With Ayo out for the year I say we get Richie and Oso to convince Junior Hoilett to come to TFC.

He has looked explosive with CMNT and would be filthy with Poz, Yefy, Jozy and Oso up front. Get it done!

[noxx98]

Osorio and Richie looking good for Canada. We were really missing them the past few games. Richie has been playing along the left.
Hoilett has also looked dangerous playing all over the front line. Would look good for TFC, particularly with our current striker depth.

[jloome]

Osorio and Richie looking good for Canada. We were really missing them the past few games. Richie has been playing along the left.
Hoilett has also looked dangerous playing all over the front line. Would look good for TFC, particularly with our current striker depth.

They could avoid cap problems by giving him a career-closer deal. He's 31, so give him a back-end loaded four-year deal that is super light for the rest of this year but guarantees him a roster spot until he's likely read to hang it up.

I mean, that was a pure striker's goal at the top of tonight's Costa Rica game, checking the line, peeling sideways to hang onside until the foot makes contacts with the ball.

He'd be very dangerous still against MLS defenders.

Bigger issue is that he's likely looking for a Euro or elsewhere deal, because an effective 31-year-old can still make nice dosh in Turkey, Switzerland, Saudi etc. So I doubt we can afford him even with contract help.

[noxx98]

They could avoid cap problems by giving him a career-closer deal. He's 31, so give him a back-end loaded four-year deal that is super light for the rest of this year but guarantees him a roster spot until he's likely read to hang it up.

I mean, that was a pure striker's goal at the top of tonight's Costa Rica game, checking the line, peeling sideways to hang onside until the foot makes contacts with the ball.

He'd be very dangerous still against MLS defenders.

Bigger issue is that he's likely looking for a Euro or elsewhere deal, because an effective 31-year-old can still make nice dosh in Turkey, Switzerland, Saudi etc. So I doubt we can afford him even with contract help.

FWIW, he liked a tweet a week ago that said TFC should sign him. Disappointing that we're using cap space on Dwyer instead.

[MikeForbes]

No cap room for Hoilett. I know we all hate Montreal, but he would fit there very well. If we have any cap left at all it needs to be spent on a CB.

[MightyDM]

No cap room for Hoilett. I know we all hate Montreal, but he would fit there very well. If we have any cap left at all it needs to be spent on a CB.

Or we move a quality midfielder. Only way to create a balanced roster.

[MikeForbes]

Or we move a quality midfielder. Only way to create a balanced roster.

If you are suggesting a trade of a midfielder for a defender, those are very rare. Most teams only trade players in exchange for allocation money these days.

[SirBobSaget]

Was cheering for Jamaica but the positive with the USA win is Lawrence will be back for the next game.

[leedsandTFC]

if canada lose on thursday, i bet our guys will play some role on Sunday (probably from the bench).

[ag futbol]

Or we move a quality midfielder. Only way to create a balanced roster.

I feel like this one is a tough ask but it also might be a function of critically looking where we are as a team and realistically asking when we’ll be in a position to win another cup.

Considering we need both a CB and a striker and it doesn’t appear we have the cap space for either, looks like we are a ways out. So that should (in theory) leave time to develop some of these youth players. But I would limit the list to the ones like Priso, who appear very close to game ready and improve with playing time, rather than projects like Nelson who need a lot of seasoning.

[MightyDM]

I feel like this one is a tough ask but it also might be a function of critically looking where we are as a team and realistically asking when we’ll be in a position to win another cup.

Considering we need both a CB and a striker and it doesn’t appear we have the cap space for either, looks like we are a ways out. So that should (in theory) leave time to develop some of these youth players. But I would limit the list to the ones like Priso, who appear very close to game ready and improve with playing time, rather than projects like Nelson who need a lot of seasoning.

Agreed. Priso and OKello. We have a really talented roster but it’s unbalanced. With some creativity, mgmt could move someone good in midfield for TAM GAM or NAM and bring in a defender and make us a better overall team even though we would need to lose someone really good; beyond Hoilett a striker would be hard indeed. And he is really a winger

[jloome]

Agreed. Priso and OKello. We have a really talented roster but it’s unbalanced. With some creativity, mgmt could move someone good in midfield for TAM GAM or NAM and bring in a defender and make us a better overall team even though we would need to lose someone really good; beyond Hoilett a striker would be hard indeed. And he is really a winger

He's a inside winger. He came inside for Cardiff most of the time, rather than playing to the touchline. And clearly from that play yesterday he knows how to run the back line better than most of our strikers. When was the last time anyone saw Dom Dwyer hold a lateral onside position until a through ball was delivered?

He'd be able at either.

Defender is obviously our top need though, you're right. Skill for skill and value for value, I'd take Hoilett in a heartbeat. I just don't think we'll be able to match what he'll want.

[reggie]

i would take jr in a heatbeat,but on the fox broadcast they said Reading are interested,and we have curtis who has no clue,

[jloome]

Judging from last year and who is still in the roster, we have cap issues. So someone will have to be moved and really that’s midfield where we are blessed and need to create space for Priso and OKello to blossom.

Right now they look like our only serious candidates to make the first team regularly this season, in spot duty, if used properly.

Perhaps Singh as well, but only as a center half.

I do wonder how much of this perceived "leap" from the academy to the first-team is just natural and a result of private academies like Sigma beating TFC at the game. Most academy players at the level of football where MLS now resides (sort mid-to-low level Championship) never make it as pros in other countries, either. I suspect we're just promoting some of those players as if they could, when they don't have the football brain for it. All the physical talent in the world can't hide an inability to read the pro game at speed and be useful.

Maybe the reason these "hyped" players aren't making it is just that, they're mostly hype.

[ag futbol]

Right now they look like our only serious candidates to make the first team regularly this season, in spot duty, if used properly.

Perhaps Singh as well, but only as a center half.

I do wonder how much of this perceived "leap" from the academy to the first-team is just natural and a result of private academies like Sigma beating TFC at the game. Most academy players at the level of football where MLS now resides (sort mid-to-low level Championship) never make it as pros in other countries, either. I suspect we're just promoting some of those players as if they could, when they don't have the football brain for it. All the physical talent in the world can't hide an inability to read the pro game at speed and be useful.

Maybe the reason these "hyped" players aren't making it is just that, they're mostly hype.

I just wonder where the coaching is in all this. Someone of fortitude and actual vision would have sat a player like Nelson down a long time ago and told him he might get away with playing as a #10 free role at the youth level, but if you want to open more doors in first team football you have to turn your mind to understanding the game better and rounding out your skills so a coach can insert you in a few different places, including as winger or fullback.

[reggie]

i really dont know what this club is doing with the young guys.nelson and rutty,they have been wasting away for the last year and a half,they should be loaned out,norway,demark cpl?

[Ultra & Proud]

I just wonder where the coaching is in all this. Someone of fortitude and actual vision would have sat a player like Nelson down a long time ago and told him he might get away with playing as a #10 free role at the youth level, but if you want to open more doors in first team football you have to turn your mind to understanding the game better and rounding out your skills so a coach can insert you in a few different places, including as winger or fullback.

I am sure he got coached on where to be by Vanney last year and this season, even though what he was told would have been wrong, Armas for sure coached him on the idiotic positioning he wanted.

Some guys have done the free role thing for so long at youth levels and got told they were the next big thing that it's hard to shake. Plus we don't know Nelson's habits and if he is interested in learning the tactics side of the game or he is content with his relying on his speed and athleticism.

[jloome]

I just wonder where the coaching is in all this. Someone of fortitude and actual vision would have sat a player like Nelson down a long time ago and told him he might get away with playing as a #10 free role at the youth level, but if you want to open more doors in first team football you have to turn your mind to understanding the game better and rounding out your skills so a coach can insert you in a few different places, including as winger or fullback.

A good point. A couple of years ago I would've written that off as crazy, just assuming that level of coaching and planning was going on. Now from the stuff we hear about training in the early years just being kickabouts, I'm not sure what to think. I mean, a lot of people said it looked like that at the time, but I just assume with this amount of money and investment involved that best practices and incremental improvement are supposed to be laws of the land.

[ag futbol]

I am sure he got coached on where to be by Vanney last year and this season, even though what he was told would have been wrong, Armas for sure coached him on the idiotic positioning he wanted.

Some guys have done the free role thing for so long at youth levels and got told they were the next big thing that it's hard to shake. Plus we don't know Nelson's habits and if he is interested in learning the tactics side of the game or he is content with his relying on his speed and athleticism.

Oh for sure. To clarify, I’m saying his youth coaches should have told him this and prepared him, not left it for the first team manager to sort out.

[Ultra & Proud]

Oh for sure. To clarify, I’m saying his youth coaches should have told him this and prepared him, not left it for the first team manager to sort out.

Could be that winning vs development thing. Letting guys like Nelson roam against weaker opposition means you will get goals and win. If he develops bad habits then that's the next manager's problem, or Nelson's.

[MightyDM]

He's a inside winger. He came inside for Cardiff most of the time, rather than playing to the touchline. And clearly from that play yesterday he knows how to run the back line better than most of our strikers. When was the last time anyone saw Dom Dwyer hold a lateral onside position until a through ball was delivered?

He'd be able at either.

Defender is obviously our top need though, you're right. Skill for skill and value for value, I'd take Hoilett in a heartbeat. I just don't think we'll be able to match what he'll want.

I agree on Hoilett. He’d be excellent for us as a striker even though he is an “inside” winger. I was just pointing out that aside from him it is hard to conceive of us landing a striker.

[jloome]

I agree on Hoilett. He’d be excellent for us as a striker even though he is an “inside” winger. I was just pointing out that aside from him it is hard to conceive of us landing a striker.

It's weird how this league goes. Right now, there's a genuine dearth. LAFC, which at one point had five viable, competitive strikers on the roster is shopping for one, as Rossi is having a poor year and Vela can't carry them. Austin couldn't manage to find one in eighteen months of prep (they just signed a french league 2 guy who is of dubious record), ending out playing a false nine instead of a striker and going seven of nine without a goal. Atlanta couldn't find a viable replacement for Martinez, the closest being Cubo Torres, a streaky headcase of a player if ever there was one.

Orlando just lost Chris Mueller to Hibernian through free agency and is about to lose Daryl Dike and has no replacement lined up.

MLS seems to have hit peak striker, where the ones who can perform immediately at the top of MLS are just out of our price range or something, or just unwilling to come to NA to play when they believe they can still progress to a top league.

I think we should be looking at League One/Ligue Deux/Swiss league levels, get a guy who's contract is undervalued and wants a payday in his prime. But how we pay him is another matter; realistically, he'd have to be 22 and under to take advantage of that dev spot, and guys that age at striker have major potential still, likely unwilling to go to MLS.

I do think there are guys out there like Jamie Vardy and Camillo Sanvezzo, playing at lower levels and not getting the break. But they're pretty rare these days. Perhaps we need to be more adventurous and do some serious African, Eastern European scouting, where even prospects are given dirt pay until someone bigger comes along.

I know we're loathe to go the UK route due to a probably sensible level of caution and bias prompted by the Mo era, but given how many premieship academy grads seem to pack it in rather than trying to work there way up from the bottom after being released, there have to be some diamonds to mine there.

USL, too. Someone's being undervalued out there.

[jloome]

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/team-...-dominate-in-w

Bono is unsurprisingly keeper of the week.

Be a nice story if his headcase play disappeared and he kept playing like a champ. Be nice to be wrong on that one.

[ag futbol]

Could be that winning vs development thing. Letting guys like Nelson roam against weaker opposition means you will get goals and win. If he develops bad habits then that's the next manager's problem, or Nelson's.

Yeah, unfortunate (and short sighted). Those guys are supposed to make their living by saying who they’ve developed, not pointing to their record.

Nelson’s been in professional academy setups and the nats for a while, they should know better.

[Bushmancan]

if canada lose on thursday, i bet our guys will play some role on Sunday (probably from the bench).

Hate to say this but I am really hoping for something special, wish we had David and Larin. So if we don't see the boys for another week I could live with that. Btw... USA aren't really scaring anyone, think Qatar are pumped for this one.

(Sorry later half should be in the other thread.)

[Richard]

Why did we let go Nick Hagglund again? That's like one of the dumbest things this club has done the past few years.