When BMO opens up for TFC games?

[Red CB Toronto]

I strongly doubt we will be back this year. But..... I think the tipping point wont be the Argos, but the Leafs.
If they make a cup run there will be immense pressure to both open the border for home games vs us teams and allow fans.
The next issue will be the vax pass, making it mandatory for attendance (the nfl bills have hinted at this, and it is a requirement for Browns fans going to the draft next week).
We dont seem to act as quickly or decisively here, so it will be interesting how this plays out.

Erie County has already announced that to attend a Buffalo Bills or Sabres game in 2021-22 you will need to be vaccinated as both facilities are publicly owned. In New York you can have to vaccinated or have a negative test and in that state they already have a voluntary app that you can load you vax records to if you choose and it can be scanned at the gate. Those CDC cards people have been getting in the US could forged with no effort. In this country depending on where you get the shot the documentation can look very different so I would think something universal will need to be produced for those that want one.

[OgtheDim]

Some of you might remember how & why smoking was originally banned in bars & restaurants & outdoor facilities.

Because of how it affected workers who had no choice but to serve you but had to enhale your smoke. The push came from labour laws.

The same thing is likely to happen with Covid vaccines at a public facing workplace - you will have to be vaccinated to provide a safe atmosphere for those who work there.

[Ponderosa]

Some of you might remember how & why smoking was originally banned in bars & restaurants & outdoor facilities.
Because of how it affected workers who had no choice but to serve you but had to enhale your smoke. The push came from labour laws.
The same thing is likely to happen with Covid vaccines at a public facing workplace - you will have to be vaccinated to provide a safe atmosphere for those who work there.

The only thing is that having the vaccine, even both shots - doesn't completely prevent you from catching it and passing it on - then mix in a % of people who simply cannot get the vaccine for medical reasons. My wildest (and likely unrealistic) hope is that the majority are vaccinated and there is a rapid test process before entry is allowed, and even then I think I'd want masks on folks.

[Red CB Toronto]

The only thing is that having the vaccine, even both shots - doesn't completely prevent you from catching it and passing it on - then mix in a % of people who simply cannot get the vaccine for medical reasons. My wildest (and likely unrealistic) hope is that the majority are vaccinated and there is a rapid test process before entry is allowed, and even then I think I'd want masks on folks.

I think you will have to be fully vaccinated at least to begin with to attend things like TFC games. Unfortunately some will not be able to attend because of this unless there is some sort of negative test option in place. I certainly see some sort of voluntary passport app like they have in New York to streamline the process of getting into events.

[leedsandTFC]

The only thing is that having the vaccine, even both shots - doesn't completely prevent you from catching it and passing it on - then mix in a % of people who simply cannot get the vaccine for medical reasons. My wildest (and likely unrealistic) hope is that the majority are vaccinated and there is a rapid test process before entry is allowed, and even then I think I'd want masks on folks.

vaccines kill the spread of this disease, that's the point.

once enough people get vaccinated, the disease will die out.

chances of catching covid outside are already really low, and will essentially be zero once enough people are vaccinated.

[leedsandTFC]

the UK is 63% vaccinated (vast majority only one shot) and scientists downgraded the pandemic to an endemic already there because of the effectiveness of the vaccines.

once we get 80% of adults with antibodies, the pandemic is over.

there will be a completely full bmo field by september, and fans in the stands by mid july.

[Canary10]

the UK is 63% vaccinated (vast majority only one shot) and scientists downgraded the pandemic to an endemic already there because of the effectiveness of the vaccines.

once we get 80% of adults with antibodies, the pandemic is over.

there will be a completely full bmo field by september, and fans in the stands by mid july.

You might want to check the definitions of pandemic and endemic before making this stuff up.

[leedsandTFC]

You might want to check the definitions of pandemic and endemic before making this stuff up.

"Sarah Walker, Professor of Medical Statistics and Epidemiology at Oxford and Chief Investigator on the Office for National Statistics Covid-19 Infection Survey, said that Britain had ‘moved from a pandemic to an endemic situation’ where the virus is circulating at a low, largely controllable level in the community."

but canary10 know more than an Professor of Epidemiology from Oxford University, of course.

get a grip mate.

[OgtheDim]

One aspect of all this that MIGHT put a bit of a fly into the ointment.

This is spec gaming out a line of thinking based on events of the last week:

ICU's are so strapped right now that if you get a brain aneurysm or in a car crash, your chance of survival has gone way down. This won't recover until September with the long term back up effects on cancelling procedures taking years if not a decade to clear up.


I am pretty darn sure this government thinks "its not all that bad out there" as one MPP, who bizarrly lives across from a Burlington hospital that is sending people to Sudbury because they have no space, said the other day. They already put out "see cases are going down" stuff out yesterday. Now, really, the province should wait until the ICU's get less full & the vaccine rate hits 70% to open up - at the current rate, that might be late May. But...these guys are not going to do that. If case amounts go below 2K, they are going to "let it rip" and hope vaccines finish the job. This is dangerous for a number of reasons because most of us won't get our second does until July right now. Opening up too early is likely to cause a 4th wave among those who didn't vaccinate & already full ICU's are just going to get worse.

That would put back plans to open up by a month if not more.

In those sort of times, the province would shut some things down. The very last thing that should open up in this province is indoor sports events & casinos. Outdoor events are, by all accounts, much safer. BUT..this government is hyper focused on what it sees from the car as it drives by. Literally - listen to Doug sometimes . To them, people congregating outdoors is a problem. They backed down on playgrounds because they got laughed at but notice how they didn't on tennis or golf or, bizarrly mentionned pickleball.

IF we go into a 4th wave, I fully expect them to clamp down on public events.

I hope I'm wrong in this line - I think I might be overestimating stuff so I'm still going to hold onto August. There are reasons to be hopeful, especially with the amount of vaccines coming next month & in June, and in our relative lack of vaccine hesitancy.

But there are potential pitfalls here.

[Canary10]

"Sarah Walker, Professor of Medical Statistics and Epidemiology at Oxford and Chief Investigator on the Office for National Statistics Covid-19 Infection Survey, said that Britain had ‘moved from a pandemic to an endemic situation’ where the virus is circulating at a low, largely controllable level in the community."

but canary10 know more than an Professor of Epidemiology from Oxford University, of course.

get a grip mate.

The definition of a pandemic is that it is global. An endemic means it is localized in a region. The UK can’t on its own declare that Covid is now localized in one region. I don’t know where you got that quote but it makes no sense!

[ensco]

I actually think the politics of this changed in the last week. There were lots of stories about unhappy PC MPPs. They know that if they open early and we have yet another lockdown, the narrative around Ford pooching this thing will be impossible to escape, and the heat would be unreal.

Both Ford and we the people got what he/we needed, which was Toronto and Peel closing businesses that have multiple cases. He should have long ago, but couldn’t because of his donor base.

I now think we will have a longer lockdown, maybe even into June.

I think games with limited attendance at BMO in July are very possible. Kind of like where California is right now.

[Canary10]

The border is still “closed” which is the main barrier to TFC at least playing games at BMO. The CDC still has travel warnings to Canada. Until that’s lifted nothing happens at BMO. The Blue Jays have already made plans to play in Buffalo to the end of the summer.

The lockdown will for sure go to June. Schools won’t reopen this school year. The idea of having even 3,000 people at a game won’t happen in that context.

[Canary10]

"Sarah Walker, Professor of Medical Statistics and Epidemiology at Oxford and Chief Investigator on the Office for National Statistics Covid-19 Infection Survey, said that Britain had ‘moved from a pandemic to an endemic situation’ where the virus is circulating at a low, largely controllable level in the community."

but canary10 know more than an Professor of Epidemiology from Oxford University, of course.

get a grip mate.

I see where you got the quote, so apologies for saying you made it up. It's interesting to classify a disease as endemic rather than pandemic without any reference to what is going on in the rest of the world. In parts of Australia they had no cases and didn't use that terminology.

[OgtheDim]

Hmmmm.....

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/kbaxter11/status/1385653211093032960

[JoesphNdo]

I'd be first in line for a vaccination only section in BMO once I was eligible, if that's what it takes to get live football back I'm in. I suspect this may be a reality for this year for events based things until we've true herd immunity

[OgtheDim]

Time to reup this one

..


May games - everybody in the stands is over 80 and lives in a LTCH
June games - add in medical workers & +75
July games - add in 55+ and a few people outside of the the GTA
August - add in 35+

Take out May & June & might be correct.

[Auzzy]

Another interesting wrinkle in this international league: I’ve seen forecasts where Canada passes the US on vaccinations sometime in the summer. With supply issues greatly easing for Canada, the problem becomes the much higher vaccine hesitancy in the US. 37% of “adults” there say they won’t get the vaccine (and 45% of Republicans).

“Vaccine passport” sections solve the problem at least for some fans. The issue for the US, with those vaccination numbers, the pandemic could continue going quite strongly. Plus the US vaccine cards can be faked very easily (and Canada doesn’t even have a uniform format for that). What will that mean for international travel restrictions, stadium capacity in the US, etc? In addition, some red states will likely ban all vaccine requirements, although I’m not sure if they can enforce that in a private stadium. Too bad it has to be so politicized.

[Red CB Toronto]

I'd be first in line for a vaccination only section in BMO once I was eligible, if that's what it takes to get live football back I'm in. I suspect this may be a reality for this year for events based things until we've true herd immunity

I would expect at least early on, all those in attendance would have had to be vaccinated to attend. I would think that will be most likely. A big thing will be AZ doses. The US currently has 20 million doses in reserve and continue to produce it domestically. At this moment in time it’s still no approved for use in the US. I honestly believe the US hopes they never have to approve it. So the question is how many of these unused doses can Canada procure?

[James17930]

But all this is contingent on the border opening, which could still remain closed for so many reasons.

I don't think people should get their hopes up.

[ensco]

But all this is contingent on the border opening, which could still remain closed for so many reasons.

I don't think people should get their hopes up.

Nah that's no biggie. There are going to be “bubbles” forming amongst the countries with strong vax and low case rates. Given vax rates here, and US case/vax rates, US border will re-open earlier than we are talking about. Airlines are pushing May 20, which I doubt, but I do think it'll be June.

The thing that could undo this would be Mexico getting out of control, a la Brazil or India. Mexico has gotten away with a very laissez faire approach, so far.

[James17930]

Nah that's no biggie. There are going to be “bubbles” forming amongst the countries with strong vax and low case rates. Given vax rates here, and US case/vax rates, US border will re-open earlier than we are talking about. Airlines are pushing May 20, which I doubt, but I do think it'll be June.

The thing that could undo this would be Mexico getting out of control, a la Brazil or India. Mexico has gotten away with a very laissez faire approach, so far.

Hopefully. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[Canary10]

My vaccination appointment today was cancelled. Apparently many pharmacies have run out of AZ. I had another appointment last week and cancelled because it was 45 minutes away whereas this one was ten minutes. I’m bummed!

[OgtheDim]

If you are on twitter, follow these people

@VaxHuntersCan


Do a search within twitter with that twitter handle and your location and see what comes up.


Other option is probably what you used to get something near you already


https://covid-19.ontario.ca/vaccine-locations


Get the list - start calling.


Good news is we get 1.9 million doses in this country this week.

[Canary10]

If you are on twitter, follow these people

@VaxHuntersCan


Do a search within twitter with that twitter handle and your location and see what comes up.


Other option is probably what you used to get something near you already


https://covid-19.ontario.ca/vaccine-locations


Get the list - start calling.


Good news is we get 1.9 million doses in this country this week.

Yeah I’m on all those things. I thought I was good since I had the appointment, just need to get back at it this morning.

[OgtheDim]

I know the feeling - the Hunger games aspect of all this is maddening.

[Cas87]

1.9 million this week then the Pfizer deliveries go up (Ontario averages about 985,000 doses PER WEEK delivered as of next week for the next 2 months).
Plus 300,000 J&Js coming in too
and Biden releasing the US's 60M AZ doses (that they aren't even planning to use -- Although the majority of these will probably go to India specifically then the COVAX system as well).

[ag futbol]

My vaccination appointment today was cancelled. Apparently many pharmacies have run out of AZ. I had another appointment last week and cancelled because it was 45 minutes away whereas this one was ten minutes. I’m bummed!

This is nuts. I temporarily relocated to Nova Scotia at the start of the pandemic and while the nature of this place means it’s a lot less challenging to manage outbreaks than in Ontario, booking a vaccine has been as easy as a few clicks online and showing up on the day. I have heard zero issues about cancellations / shortages.

Guess I won’t be booking my return flight and heading down to BMO in the near future.

[JonO]

I think games with limited attendance at BMO in July are very possible. Kind of like where California is right now.

I like your optimism, but I think it will be interesting considering the different vaccination strategies. Currently, I think California is around 45% with at least one jab and 29% fully vaccinated. The long delay between shots in Canada will result in a higher % with first jabs come July, but I think we will still be way behind the 29% fully vaccinated.

[Red CB Toronto]

I like your optimism, but I think it will be interesting considering the different vaccination strategies. Currently, I think California is around 45% with at least one jab and 29% fully vaccinated. The long delay between shots in Canada will result in a higher % with first jabs come July, but I think we will still be way behind the 29% fully vaccinated.

California has quite a number of unbooked appointments available, vaccine is collecting dust on the shelves figuratively. A real hesitation is starting to set in. I do not expect it to be the same here in Ontario. We just have had a cluster fuck of a vaccine rollout and thus a real case of inequality on many fronts. Take me for example, once those eligible for AZ was lowered to 40 last week I booked an appointment at the Guardian Drugs at Yonge and Davisville within minutes of the announcement. My appointment was for two days later. I was at the pharmacy for all of 20 minutes, walked in at 1:27 , got my shot, sat their for observation and at 1:42 pm my vaccination record was emailed to me. On the other hand people have been lining up fo hours in hopes of getting one. Something need to be fixed.

[Auzzy]

This is nuts. I temporarily relocated to Nova Scotia at the start of the pandemic and while the nature of this place means it’s a lot less challenging to manage outbreaks than in Ontario, booking a vaccine has been as easy as a few clicks online and showing up on the day. I have heard zero issues about cancellations / shortages.

Guess I won’t be booking my return flight and heading down to BMO in the near future.

BTW that vaccine booking system in Nova Scotia was developed by an Ontario company that is quite experienced with things like this.

Oh and an article in the NYT that millions in the US are missing their second vaccine appointments. 8% now and rising. That's in addition to the just under 40% that don't want to get vaccinated it at all. Fingers crossed that lots of PR will help, but too many thinking that this is all over. Chile is an example with one of the highest vaccination rates, and one of the worst COVID situations in the world now. Partly because they used lots of Chinese vax with lower efficacy. Partly because too many want to declare victory in the 75th minute.