View Poll Results: When BMO opens up for TFC games?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I think Manning made a mistake there.
    How? He was clear they were returning on Thursday. And clear that they wouldn't return to Orlando. He was clear they don't have permission yet to play in Canada. And clear that if they can't get permission to play in Toronto, they've got a contingency plan to play elsewhere in the USA.

    What is his mistake? Other than hiring Curtis ...

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    A little something to pump everyone that the Reds are coming home !!

    The Reds coming back where they belong, another day , another dawn ... is BMO really a home when our beloved Reds are gone ?



    Last edited by Red CB Toronto; 07-05-2021 at 03:40 PM.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nfitz View Post
    How? He was clear they were returning on Thursday. And clear that they wouldn't return to Orlando. He was clear they don't have permission yet to play in Canada. And clear that if they can't get permission to play in Toronto, they've got a contingency plan to play elsewhere in the USA.

    What is his mistake? Other than hiring Curtis ...
    He is publicly anchoring expectations to a particular outcome, the July 17 game. To my knowledge, no exec of any team in any sport in Canada has done that yet.

    It's doubly problematic when the date is less than two weeks away.

    Anyway, it's my opinion. Feel free to disagree.
    ďWhat the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.Ē

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    In his presser, Manning says "The regulations allow us to come home and train, those that are fully vaccinated."

    My question: who, within TFC, is not vaccinated and, hence, not allowed to come home?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luanda View Post
    In his presser, Manning says "The regulations allow us to come home and train, those that are fully vaccinated."

    My question: who, within TFC, is not vaccinated and, hence, not allowed to come home?
    DeLeon is one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    DeLeon is one.
    His days have to be numbered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luanda View Post
    In his presser, Manning says "The regulations allow us to come home and train, those that are fully vaccinated."

    My question: who, within TFC, is not vaccinated and, hence, not allowed to come home?
    Anyone would be allowed to come.
    But starting July 5, if they are not vaccinated, then they would still need to quarantine
    As far as I know, professional athletes were never on the essential list, so all quarantine rules applied. Hence the need to setup shop completely in Connecticut, and then Florida.
    So of TFC returns full time to Toronto, this seems like it will be a big problem for non vaccinated players and/or staff.
    Last edited by wopchop; 07-05-2021 at 06:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wopchop View Post
    Anyone would be allowed to come.
    But starting July 5, if they are not vaccinated, then they would still need to quarantine
    As far as I know, professional athletes were never on the essential list, so all quarantine rules applied. Hence the need to setup shop completely in Connecticut, and then Florida.
    So of TFC returns full time to Toronto, this seems like it will be a big problem for non vaccinated players and/or staff.
    Anyone who could enter Canada until now can still under the new quarantine rules but if you could not nothing changes. TFC received an exemption last year to come home and train during the break between the end of the regular season and the post season. I assume that is still in place but I would think a vaccination component could very well be a part of it now. I would also think for a peace of mind TFC would want to have all its players and staff getting their shots. It will be very interesting to see if they chose to move on from a player who chooses not to get them. The player association could very well get involved. The Reds being in Canada will present some unique things they could potentially have to deal with.

    Here are examples of what rules will be in place for NFL players who are unvaccinated.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...rs/7718837002/

    I know Bill Manning is talking about trying to play in Toronto on July 17 but I think August 1st vs. Nashville is much more realistic. It would be after the border is potentially after re-opening after July 21st and state 3 from a provincial stand point. Lots of things to still figure out. Very surprised a all-Canadian section of the schedule at this point was not considered. That would have let all 3 teams return home ...

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    Wondering what the plan is for current SSH once fans are allowed in (in whatever capacity). My wife and I arenít rushing to get back into the stadium but hope we get first crack at buying individual games for our seats. I assume our money TFC has been holding will carry over to next season and this years games will be on an ad-hoc situation? Lots of questions and no communication from MLSE. Our ticket rep was let go a long time ago. Anyone have any insight?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red CB Toronto View Post
    Anyone who could enter Canada until now can still under the new quarantine rules but if you could not nothing changes. TFC received an exemption last year to come home and train during the break between the end of the regular season and the post season. I assume that is still in place but I would think a vaccination component could very well be a part of it now. I would also think for a peace of mind TFC would want to have all its players and staff getting their shots. It will be very interesting to see if they chose to move on from a player who chooses not to get them. The player association could very well get involved. The Reds being in Canada will present some unique things they could potentially have to deal with.

    Here are examples of what rules will be in place for NFL players who are unvaccinated.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...rs/7718837002/

    I know Bill Manning is talking about trying to play in Toronto on July 17 but I think August 1st vs. Nashville is much more realistic. It would be after the border is potentially after re-opening after July 21st and state 3 from a provincial stand point. Lots of things to still figure out. Very surprised a all-Canadian section of the schedule at this point was not considered. That would have let all 3 teams return home ...
    i gather hockey players are essential or are immune to covid

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    Quote Originally Posted by synkronized1 View Post
    Wondering what the plan is for current SSH once fans are allowed in (in whatever capacity). My wife and I aren’t rushing to get back into the stadium but hope we get first crack at buying individual games for our seats. I assume our money TFC has been holding will carry over to next season and this years games will be on an ad-hoc situation? Lots of questions and no communication from MLSE. Our ticket rep was let go a long time ago. Anyone have any insight?
    I would demand that those who left their money in the coffers will get first crack at game tickets, we have 5 seats in Section 110 and have had them since inception, if we get half a season with games played at BMO and are allowed to attend, MLSE and TFC can do the math and roll the remainder into next season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derko View Post
    I would demand that those who left their money in the coffers will get first crack at game tickets, we have 5 seats in Section 110 and have had them since inception, if we get half a season with games played at BMO and are allowed to attend, MLSE and TFC can do the math and roll the remainder into next season.
    I can understand why you'd want that, but I'd think the fairest thing would be to offer a certain % of the season seat holders depending on the numbers the chance to buy their seats in alternating games based on when you bought your seasons. For example, for game 1, offer 20% of season ticket holders starting with day 1 holders the chance to go, next games offer the next 20% and so on. That way everyone gets a chance.

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    One solution to the ticket problem is to sell tickets on a first come first served basis for the remainder of the season.
    People such as myself then get to start next season with a full spate of tickets.
    I would be interested in the views of other fans in the same scenario.

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    I'm a SSH

    If I can't get a seat, be it my actual or not, due to % restrictions, fair enough.

    If there is a % restriction, the criteria should be based on seniority - nothing else is fair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    I can understand why you'd want that, but I'd think the fairest thing would be to offer a certain % of the season seat holders depending on the numbers the chance to buy their seats in alternating games based on when you bought your seasons. For example, for game 1, offer 20% of season ticket holders starting with day 1 holders the chance to go, next games offer the next 20% and so on. That way everyone gets a chance.
    That would be too logical and methodical for FO to implement. They'll look for the easiest quickest way to get seats filled with minimal work and minimal pushback. They aren't going to be concerned with fairness.

    I think they will offer a link to to Supporters groups to purchase a certain amount of seats on a first come first serve basis similar to playoff tickets.
    Then a secondary link to SSH in general - no concession to the ones who have left $$ or not. If a SSH has $$ in the account, they'll likely be able to access those funds (currently in credit state) on their account.
    Third will be general public sale for a portion of seats (likely the more expensive ones).

    I also don't foresee a vax section and unvax section. Or requirement of proof of vax to get in (don't get me wrong - I would highly prefer this)...I just don't see them being able to do this legally unless the Province mandates it. At most they'll require masking and some kind of distancing. In general it will be buyer's risk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    I'm a SSH

    If I can't get a seat, be it my actual or not, due to % restrictions, fair enough.

    If there is a % restriction, the criteria should be based on seniority - nothing else is fair.
    Yeah I'm with you on that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
    That would be too logical and methodical for FO to implement. They'll look for the easiest quickest way to get seats filled with minimal work and minimal pushback. They aren't going to be concerned with fairness.

    I think they will offer a link to to Supporters groups to purchase a certain amount of seats on a first come first serve basis similar to playoff tickets.
    Then a secondary link to SSH in general - no concession to the ones who have left $$ or not. If a SSH has $$ in the account, they'll likely be able to access those funds (currently in credit state) on their account.
    Third will be general public sale for a portion of seats (likely the more expensive ones).

    I also don't foresee a vax section and unvax section. Or requirement of proof of vax to get in (don't get me wrong - I would highly prefer this)...I just don't see them being able to do this legally unless the Province mandates it. At most they'll require masking and some kind of distancing. In general it will be buyer's risk.
    I see being fully vaccinated being a condition of attending by the province. Itís very much in line with the cautious approach the Ford government has taken so far. Manitoba is requiring being fully vaccinated to attend sporting events so I expect the same here.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red CB Toronto View Post
    I see being fully vaccinated being a condition of attending by the province. Itís very much in line with the cautious approach the Ford government has taken so far. Manitoba is requiring being fully vaccinated to attend sporting events so I expect the same here.
    I'm not so sure about that. I don't think the proof will be an easy nut to crack. I work in another government ministry, and the privacy considerations, legal requirements, etc, make it extremely difficult to use health information like that. I'd prefer it, but I can't see it. I also don't think fans will be allowed at the beginning, at least for few games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    I'm not so sure about that. I don't think the proof will be an easy nut to crack. I work in another government ministry, and the privacy considerations, legal requirements, etc, make it extremely difficult to use health information like that. I'd prefer it, but I can't see it. I also don't think fans will be allowed at the beginning, at least for few games.
    I do not see privacy concerns when it’s something totally voluntary like attending a sporting event. It’s my choice to attend and if someone has issues with it they will not go. It’s not like MLSE is retaining the info. All someone would do is print out their vaccination record from the ministry of health’s website and just show it. In New York State right now their is voluntary vaccine passport app that is being used to open up Broadway. It’s all being done in the name of public health and safety , the same as it would be here. No one is doing to be denied essentially services and their basic daily needs like groceries etc but attending events that you choose to is different.

    Also Ontario as of right now is 25% capacity and actually will be fans in attendance at events this weekend in Ontario with the Intercounty Baseball League. So fans in the stands is not an issue right now. It’s all about the border which we should learn more about in the days leading up to July 21.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    Can employers require you to be vaccinated. My company says they assume anyone who wants to go into the office is fully vaxxed but they won't ask for proof.

    I'm asking because I'm curious about the stadium staff. (Sorry if I missed it in the thread.)
    Toronto 'til I die - but I think they're trying to kill me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eustacchio View Post
    Can employers require you to be vaccinated. My company says they assume anyone who wants to go into the office is fully vaxxed but they won't ask for proof.

    I'm asking because I'm curious about the stadium staff. (Sorry if I missed it in the thread.)
    This is still a big question-mark as far as I can tell. On one hand, you have privacy concerns and on the other hand you have an obligation to provide a safe work environment. I think many new hires/contracts will have clauses written into them to address the issue. The question is how do handle existing staff with existing employment agreements. Should be a busy time for labour lawyers...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red CB Toronto View Post
    I do not see privacy concerns when itís something totally voluntary like attending a sporting event. Itís my choice to attend and if someone has issues with it they will not go. Itís not like MLSE is retaining the info. All someone would do is print out their vaccination record from the ministry of healthís website and just show it. In New York State right now their is voluntary vaccine passport app that is being used to open up Broadway. Itís all being done in the name of public health and safety , the same as it would be here. No one is doing to be denied essentially services and their basic daily needs like groceries etc but attending events that you choose to is different.

    Also Ontario as of right now is 25% capacity and actually will be fans in attendance at events this weekend in Ontario with the Intercounty Baseball League. So fans in the stands is not an issue right now. Itís all about the border which we should learn more about in the days leading up to July 21.
    To be clear, I don't think there will be a government supported method of "proof." There are significant privacy concerns with the use of any health information that the province's lawyers and the Information and Privacy Commissioner will vet before that. Yeah, I guess if organizations want to accept their own method of proof they may do that. The vaccination record isn't hard to fake, as the US has shown, so those organizations asking for it would have to accept the risk of it. I don't think it will be required. Just my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonO View Post
    This is still a big question-mark as far as I can tell. On one hand, you have privacy concerns and on the other hand you have an obligation to provide a safe work environment. I think many new hires/contracts will have clauses written into them to address the issue. The question is how do handle existing staff with existing employment agreements. Should be a busy time for labour lawyers...
    The big question that has yet to be answered is if a business can be held liable if a customer gets sick from an unvaccinated employee? There are still lots of questions about this to be answered moving forward. I am sure it will end up in the courts as companies will try to do things in the name of public health and safety. Employees will claim privacy.

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/customers-can-ask-about-an-employee-s-vaccination-status-but-employers-can-t-share-it-experts-

    I do believe companies will have some latitude in these unprecedented times.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/unv...rker-1.6085702
    Last edited by Red CB Toronto; 07-06-2021 at 03:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eustacchio View Post
    Can employers require you to be vaccinated. My company says they assume anyone who wants to go into the office is fully vaxxed but they won't ask for proof.

    I'm asking because I'm curious about the stadium staff. (Sorry if I missed it in the thread.)

    Employers are required by labour standards law to provide a safe environment for all their staff.


    There is a LOT of leeway with that as far as requirements for staff.


    Couple that with the ESA allowing employers to let a person go without having to provide a reason as long as any legally prescribed severance is provided, and employees in non-unionized environments have little power in these situations.

    In theory, an employer could indicate that a person potentially with covid working with others in an environment where covid could be transmitted from one staff member to another would provide an unsafe work environment and thus all employees would need to be vaccinated. Not sure anybody is going to go down that route but there is nothing indicating this can't happen.


    In practice, MLSE, as do all employers in Ontario, have access to free rapid tests that take 15 minutes to use. MLSE was using this on all staff & media during Leafs games. I'm pretty sure this is part of the plan for TFC.
    Last edited by OgtheDim; 07-06-2021 at 04:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Employers are required by labour standards law to provide a safe environment for all their staff.


    There is a LOT of leeway with that as far as requirements for staff.


    Couple that with the ESA allowing employers to let a person go without having to provide a reason as long as any legally prescribed severance is provided, and employees in non-unionized environments have little power in these situations.
    I think this is where will we will see a big difference between the white and blue collar world. Here is a question, if someone has been doing their job from home for the last year and a half does a company really have a leg to stand on in saying they need them in the office to do it moving forward. I know there is a question of efficiency will come up so it will be interesting to see how this will be handled?

    The issue of distance and making concessions will come up. Even in the unionized world how will this be dealt with as people return to work with cba's in place would this all be laid out in existing deals? Even in in essential industries not every position is essential. This whole thing is so unprecedented. I feel for the HR people that will have to sort this out all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red CB Toronto View Post
    I think this is where will we will see a big difference between the white and blue collar world. Here is a question, if someone has been doing their job from home for the last year and a half does a company really have a leg to stand on in saying they need them in the office to do it moving forward. I know there is a question of efficiency will come up so it will be interesting to see how this will be handled?

    The issue of distance and making concessions will come up. Even in the unionized world how will this be dealt with as people return to work with cba's in place would this all be laid out in existing deals? Even in in essential industries not every position is essential. This whole thing is so unprecedented. I feel for the HR people that will have to sort this out all.
    I'm no lawyer but I'm pretty sure they can mandate you have to come back to the office.

    I'm lucky in that my company decided to go 'remote-first'. They closed all our offices except for one floor downtown where you can hotel if you want to. If your manager approves, you can work from wherever you want (some positions like support have obvious hours they need to be online).

    I'm really curious what happens to the commercial real estate industry, especially the office towers downtown.
    Last edited by eustacchio; 07-06-2021 at 05:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonO View Post
    This is still a big question-mark as far as I can tell. On one hand, you have privacy concerns and on the other hand you have an obligation to provide a safe work environment. I think many new hires/contracts will have clauses written into them to address the issue. The question is how do handle existing staff with existing employment agreements. Should be a busy time for labour lawyers...

    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Employers are required by labour standards law to provide a safe environment for all their staff.


    There is a LOT of leeway with that as far as requirements for staff.


    Couple that with the ESA allowing employers to let a person go without having to provide a reason as long as any legally prescribed severance is provided, and employees in non-unionized environments have little power in these situations.

    In theory, an employer could indicate that a person potentially with covid working with others in an environment where covid could be transmitted from one staff member to another would provide an unsafe work environment and thus all employees would need to be vaccinated. Not sure anybody is going to go down that route but there is nothing indicating this can't happen.


    In practice, MLSE, as do all employers in Ontario, have access to free rapid tests that take 15 minutes to use. MLSE was using this on all staff & media during Leafs games. I'm pretty sure this is part of the plan for TFC.
    Thank you both. I had a feeling that was the situation. I'm sure labour lawyers are busy dealing with furlough stuff already . I know three people at work who lawyered up when they were laid off, and as far as I know, they're the only ones who received decent packages.

    I hadn't thought about the rapid testing. That's a good thing to remember.
    Toronto 'til I die - but I think they're trying to kill me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red CB Toronto View Post
    I see being fully vaccinated being a condition of attending by the province. It’s very much in line with the cautious approach the Ford government has taken so far. Manitoba is requiring being fully vaccinated to attend sporting events so I expect the same here.

    I am not so sure on this. I agree the Ford government has taken the cautious approach but at the same time, if they wanted to push being fully vaccinated to attend a game at BMO, it would seem very hypocritical seeing as other places were a large group can attend (ie Canada's Wonderland, The Toronto Zoo etc.) do not have such requirements. My wife and I attend the Zoo last week and the protocols they have in place outside of their cleaning protocols are masks in close quarters, timed entry and signage for social distancing.

    I feel that the team will go one of 2 ways. First, there will be not requirements for vaccination but they will have temperature scanning at the entrances, limited capacity, pod seating etc etc. The second, if they do want proof of vaccination, they will most likely follow NYCFC's lead and require either proof of vaccine, a negative Covid test within 3 days or a negative rapid test within 3 hours of kickoff. This still allows for individual privacy as well as ensuring a safe stadium.

    We shall see soon how things will play out

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red CB Toronto View Post
    The big question that has yet to be answered is if a business can be held liable if a customer gets sick from an unvaccinated employee? There are still lots of questions about this to be answered moving forward. I am sure it will end up in the courts as companies will try to do things in the name of public health and safety. Employees will claim privacy.

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/customers-can-ask-about-an-employee-s-vaccination-status-but-employers-can-t-share-it-experts-

    I do believe companies will have some latitude in these unprecedented times.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/unv...rker-1.6085702
    Part of the legislation passed last year, in Bill 218, makes companies and persons non liable for COVID-19 exposure/infection related issues if they follow public health guidelines and implement measures to stop the spread. All they need to prove in the case of litigation is that they made an honest effort, which is fairly simple.

    This was the same bill that was so controversial because it was made retroactive, and effectively let long term care homes off the hook from liability.

    Whether the bill will stand up in a court challenge I suppose is another thing.
    Last edited by wopchop; 07-07-2021 at 06:15 AM.

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    I don't see how proof of vaccination can be considered a privacy issue to get into a soccer game in Toronto because it's already required elsewhere. The federal government already require it to get out of the 14 day quarantine for everyone including residents of Ontario when arriving at the airport. If we're talking strictly about privacy, what's the difference between getting back home after travelling out of the country and having to provide proof and having to provide proof of vaccination to get into BMO Field? ...

    https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/tr...ntering-canada

    ... to quote that article ...

    "Proof of vaccination

    You must use ArriveCAN to enter your proof of vaccination, quarantine and travel information.
    The new version of ArriveCAN will be released on July 5, 2021. You will not be able to upload your proof of vaccination into ArriveCAN until that time.
    If you don't provide the required information in ArriveCAN before arriving at the border you won't be considered for the exemption, even if you meet all the other requirements.
    If you meet the exemption, you may receive notifications from ArriveCAN; however, you won't be required to complete daily reporting."

    I could easily see MLSE releasing a statement saying ...

    You must use GetIntoBMO to enter your proof of vaccination and ticket information.
    The new version of GetIntoBMO will be released on July 17, 2021. You will not be able to upload your proof of vaccination into GetIntoBMO until that time.
    If you don't provide the required information in GetIntoBMO before arriving at the stadium you won't be considered for entry to the game, even if you meet all the other requirements.
    If you meet the requirements, you may receive notifications from GetIntoBMO; however, you won't be required to take your seat.


    Last edited by buddies; 07-07-2021 at 06:25 AM.

 

 

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