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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC1154ever View Post
    Of course, as @joshuakloke and I have mentioned, there was a sense around MLS that Ali Curtis and Bill Manning wouldn't want a coach who would demand a lot of roster control. Not getting more control was part of why Vanney left, from what I'm told.

    Armas probably isn't that guy.

    From Sam Stejskal. This is a bit worrying. I thought the Vanney stuff was because he wanted go home. If this is part of the reason, this scares the shit out of me.

    We are at a tipping point. Either this is going to ugly this season, or Curtis finally brings in the right pieces, and Armas surprises us.

    Gun to my head, it think it’s the former.
    Armas also Tech Director so he will have some roster say and the roster will have to be constructed to play whatever style he wants us to play (press obviously). This season should be pretty ugly because as I said above, we're the slowest, least fit team in the league (history?) and I doubt we can manage an Aron WInter level of roster turnover before the season starts. I expect a whole lot of muscle injuries, CF whining, and players chasing shadows in 2021.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    Didnt Armas inherit the press?
    It's what he ran in their academy & first team and he did inherit it but there's no history of him ever doing anything else so that's all we have to base him on. In that regard at least we know he can implement that. No clue if he could do anything more forward thinking.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post

    Not impressed. When other teams fans are happy your choice is off the table, you have to think. Will give him a chance and listen to him but...

    this is a downgrade

    Agreed. Not just likely a downgrade in ability, based on Armas' work in NY, but in ambition. He'll have to do really well, really quickly or it's back to the big ugly days, because we sat through nine years of incompetent horseshit before Vanney.

    I'd go as far as to say that with the roster we have and continuity, if we're not a top three club at the half of next season, fire the fucking lot. We don't need to be taking steps back to MLS 1.0
    Last edited by jloome; 01-13-2021 at 12:16 PM.

  4. #94
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    I'll reserve my judgements of him, as I did with the inexperience Vanney had when he came to the job. The difference is that we aren't "desperate" to win, "the guys" are older and will have a direct influence, and the focus is for use to our younger guys.

    While the signing doesn't excite me, I'm also not perplexed as having a "big name" signing because I believe they would be adverse in using our great academy. Which is the focus of Ali Curtis.

    Lets be honest, Chris Armas may have not done well at NYRB, but neither would Vanney or any other manager with that team!

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    Well, I was right that it would be someone "they" worked with before. (This is a suit rule of life, the rule works 80-90% of the time.)

    But i was wrong in thinking that Manning wouldn't let it be just someone from Ali's network.

    It's a bit bizarre, because it sounds like what got Armas in trouble in NY was deviating from the style that Ali and Marsch were using
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/...-charles-boehm

    I think it's impossible to have a big opinion.

    What I like: Armas knows MLS. This counts for a lot. He has a similar but actually better resume compared to what Vanney had. Armas is respected generally. NYRB is a revolving door, getting canned there says nothing. I thought Vanney would have trouble commanding the room, but it wasn't an issue.

    What worries me: The Kaku saga, not sure Armas can handle the "disrespect" that comes with "handling" elite talent. Will the next "Pozo" want to come and play for him? Vanney was very gracious about the fact that Seba and Jozy blew him off a lot.

    What worries me more: Armas had a low payroll team, this looks like an unambitious small market, low payroll hire. (It may not be. But it looks like it.)

    What worries me most: Ali is now driving. I fear, despite the apparent symmetry, he just isn't Bez, not even close. If Ali's going to drive us into a ditch, it starts now.
    Last edited by ensco; 01-13-2021 at 12:51 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  6. #96
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    Another thought

    This is now Bill Manning's team fully. Curtis is his VP/GM & Armas is his coach. Both will have a LOT of loyalty to Manning because both were on the scrap heap.

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    Just a note on the playing style at NYRB - it's dictated by global HQ. All the Red Bull teams are pressers.

    So

    1. It wouldn't have been Curtis/Marsch/Armas decision to play that way - they were told to
    2. Deviating from it would be grounds for a shit canning

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    I'll go in with an open mind but man nothing that's happened recently with FO has impressed me much in a long while. I stand by the fact that the criticism of the man was on here was absolutely batshit insane and that Tim Bezbatchenko was the best thing to ever happen this club and losing him was the biggest disaster in recent memory. Everything since Ali Curtis has come in in terms of decisions and everything that happened at Columbus since he went there has only made that clearer

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    Just a note on the playing style at NYRB - it's dictated by global HQ. All the Red Bull teams are pressers.

    So

    1. It wouldn't have been Curtis/Marsch/Armas decision to play that way - they were told to
    2. Deviating from it would be grounds for a shit canning
    Some Twitter chatter that he’s not into pressing as much as he is outright defensive. Not sure if true but that in no way fits our roster or the players in our pipeline.

    We need someone can at least partially work within the system we have. Otherwise we’re looking at a multi-year rebuild.

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    "You play to win the game"

    Herm Edwards - Former NFL Coach

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Some Twitter chatter that he’s not into pressing as much as he is outright defensive. Not sure if true but that in no way fits our roster or the players in our pipeline.

    We need someone can at least partially work within the system we have. Otherwise we’re looking at a multi-year rebuild.
    My interpretation is that when he stuck with the system Marsch had in place, results were good (The Shield). When he started to try and become his own man so to speak, it all sort of went tits up.

    Oh wells, at least its not Olsen

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    Well ... let’s hope for the best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Well, I was right that it would be someone "they" worked with before. (This is a suit rule of life, the rule works 80-90% of the time.)

    But i was wrong in thinking that Manning wouldn't let it be just someone from Ali's network.

    It's a bit bizarre, because it sounds like what got Armas in trouble in NY was deviating from the style that Ali and Marsch were using
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/...-charles-boehm

    I think it's impossible to have a big opinion.

    What I like: Armas knows MLS. This counts for a lot. He has a similar but actually better resume compared to what Vanney had. Armas is respected generally. NYRB is a revolving door, getting canned there says nothing. I thought Vanney would have trouble commanding the room, but it wasn't an issue.

    What worries me: The Kaku saga, not sure Armas can handle the "disrespect" that comes with "handling" elite talent. Will the next "Pozo" want to come and play for him? Vanney was very gracious about the fact that Seba and Jozy blew him off a lot.

    What worries me more: Armas had a low payroll team, this looks like an unambitious small market, low payroll hire. (It may not be. But it looks like it.)

    What worries me most: Ali is now driving. I fear, despite the apparent symmetry, he just isn't Bez, not even close. If Ali's going to drive us into a ditch, it starts now.
    I think this is what worries me. Feels like this hiring lacks ambition. Also feels to me like the team is becoming...not sure how to say it....provincial? Our leadership seems focused on what it knows in its limited circle. With Leiweke we had the gall to look at big markets and think we could pry a few high level players away. Doesn't seem like we have that anymore.

  14. #104
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    I'll reserve judgement on the Armas hire, but this does not speak well to Ali Curtis that he can't entice a manager outside of his own contact network to come coach TFC. It also doesn't raise my opinion of Manning as president to not expect more from Curtis' club vision.

    Even the initials of the trio A-C-M portends a bad omen that we are going to see a repeat of the Anselmi, Cochrane and Mariner era.

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    So, whatever. Armas is our manager now and we gotta get behind him since they aren't gonna fire him because we are underwhelmed.

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    This hire is totally on Manning and Curtis so i intend to chill for 6 months and see what direction they intend to go.
    If after this time TFC are in the lower reaches of the Eastern Conference then it will be time to go after management.
    Just idol speculation will Bradley Delgado pick a name be in LA this season after the events of the past 2 months .
    Out with the old in with the (Manning,Curtis,Armas)prodigy’s.
    Thankfully we will not be in the stadium for 6 months.

  17. #107
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    I'm not worried about the style of play changing because of one man

    Pozuelo

    The most expensive piece on this team

    the MVP of the league

    the guy who makes this team tick over

    the shining jewel signing of the Manning/Curtis era



    Its his team

    NOW....2024, if Armas is still around and Poz is gone (likely in my head) then things may change.

  18. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    I think this is what worries me. Feels like this hiring lacks ambition. Also feels to me like the team is becoming...not sure how to say it....provincial? Our leadership seems focused on what it knows in its limited circle. With Leiweke we had the gall to look at big markets and think we could pry a few high level players away. Doesn't seem like we have that anymore.
    Once in-person games are a thing again, it will be incumbent on supporters, again, to remind these people that failing repeatedly isn't acceptable to the fan base.

    We were practically divided and damn near rioting by the end of the last shitshow era. It would be nice to avoid all that antipathy again by letting them know early that there is NO acceptable adjustment period; he's getting a damn-near finished article team with only tweaks needed.

    If they can't win right away, they all need to go. Fuck this "we'll build it our way" bullshit that comes up every time a front office underachieves in Football.

  19. #109
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    How do the contingent on here that were upset by Vanney's lack of trust in playing young players (Fraser mainly) feel about getting a guy who specializes in that? Presumably the young prospects Curtis signed to the first team that sat and rotted on the subs bench will get a shot now.

  20. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    How do the contingent on here that were upset by Vanney's lack of trust in playing young players (Fraser mainly) feel about getting a guy who specializes in that? Presumably the young prospects Curtis signed to the first team that sat and rotted on the subs bench will get a shot now.
    I trusted Vanney's judgement on who should and shouldn't play. I mean, Fraser has had more than twenty starts with the main club now over three seasons and has never shown a lick. Prso and Nelson showed more in their first two games than he ever has. Same goes with the frequently absent TAM winger who clearly, clearly was not MLS material.

    Do we really WANT someone who'll play guys a championship manager had no faith in? It's not like they didn't get shots.

    I hope it's more a case of making the most of the ones that DO work out, as Priso clearly has and will.

    The other day, Doyle wrote one of his "what they should do" pieces on MLSsoccer, and suggested they should turn Fraser into a center back... a position he has rarely played, despite his only discernible strength at the top level being his passing.

    Really, so little is known about his MLS-level capabilities that I have to seriously question at this point if they exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Well, I was right that it would be someone "they" worked with before. (This is a suit rule of life, the rule works 80-90% of the time.)
    Somebody save us from five more years of uninspired corporate mediocrity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    he's getting a damn-near finished article team with only tweaks needed.

    If they can't win right away, they all need to go.
    I don't agree with this. We had a flawed line up that was slow as hell. That was something that needed addressing sooner or later and we're not getting any younger (or faster). Bottom line, we're not winning anything with Altidore as a DP forward. He is an anchor around the team's neck. Might as well accept that and start rebuilding with some speed until his contract expires.

    However that depends on what actual Armas-ball looks like. I assume press still as it's what he knows but it's true that is mandated by RB HQ. If it's anything other than our standard slow, predictible possession game then we won't have the players to play it well and we won't be great and even if Armas plays 100% Vanney-ball, I don't think we will be great either. I think the curtain was closing on this era of TFC. I was hoping for someone great to switch the styles but we get sub-mediocre Armas and it is what it is. At least he'll play young guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Bottom line, we're not winning anything with Altidore as a DP forward. He is an anchor around the team's neck. Might as well accept that and start rebuilding with some speed until his contract expires.
    While I agree we're not where we need to be to be contending the league annually, we were three points ahead in the Supporters Shield race with three games left... With the entire season played on the road.

    We should be winning from day one. This should not become a losing team. That's not a high standard to demand given our roster.

  24. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    The other day, Doyle wrote one of his "what they should do" pieces on MLSsoccer, and suggested they should turn Fraser into a center back... a position he has rarely played, despite his only discernible strength at the top level being his passing.
    This is exactly why I think he should be converted along with his turtle pace. Modern football needs CBs who can think fast and make decisive passes. He can do this and I think he could be a decent CB if he worked on his positioning and tackling (more when not to tackle then actual tackling though).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    This is exactly why I think he should be converted along with his turtle pace. Modern football needs CBs who can think fast and make decisive passes. He can do this and I think he could be a decent CB if he worked on his positioning and tackling (more when not to tackle then actual tackling though).
    Nobody coming into MLS level should have to work on their positioning and tackling to play a particular role. It's too late for that unless he's a prodigy athlete, and he clearly isn't.

    Priso and Nelson, it was obvious the first time they stepped on a pitch for us that they could at least think at the speed of the game. He's shown us nothing. How can we know he'd be a good center back when his entire role for us has been shuttling the ball.

    I don't doubt a good passing center back is important, it's half of why they got Omar and one of Mavinga's strengths, too. But he's shown us nothing but average number 8 shuttler skills so far.

    I don't prescribe to this notion that somehow Vanney was holding back swaths of missing talent. None of the guys who've washed out with us has made it anywhere else other than Mark Anthony Kaye and he was scrubbed by Rongen at the TFCII level.

    A lack of youth moving up doesn't mean necessarily that someone is holding them back. It can also mean whoever is developing them isn't doing a very good job. Given that more Sigma youth are making it into the league fulltime than TFC academy youth, there's probably something to the notion that the problem is at an earlier level than the first team.

    I don't see anything positive in this hire. I will be happy if he demonstrates otherwise.
    Last edited by jloome; 01-13-2021 at 03:32 PM.

  26. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    How do the contingent on here that were upset by Vanney's lack of trust in playing young players (Fraser mainly) feel about getting a guy who specializes in that?...
    I put no stock in Armas' NYRB days indicating a preference or specialization - RB are a VERY top down organization & there has been no indication Curtis or Manning want to emulate what RB does across all its teams. Lets see what he says.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Nobody coming into MLS level should have to work on their positioning and tackling to play a particular role. It's too late for that unless he's a prodigy athlete, and he clearly isn't.
    Bradley is positionally good, in midfield. When dropped into the center of defense, he was sketchy. If you get dropped in a position you don't play, you won't be perfectly positioned. As for the tackling, a CB shouldn't attempt the type of tackling a DM can get away with as guys will drop like they've been shot. Takes time to change this behaviour.

    A lack of youth moving up doesn't mean necessarily that someone is holding them back. It can also mean whoever is developing them isn't doing a very good job. Given that more Sigma youth are making it into the league fulltime than TFC academy youth, there's probably something to the notion that the problem is at an earlier level than the first team.
    This is true but the Waking the Red article pointed to Vanney and Curtis having a difference of opinion on Vanney not using young players Ali signed. I am not an Ali fan at all but if it's one thing he was known for, it was developing and using homegrowns and young players. On the other hand you could see Vanney was the exact opposite as he ground our completely gassed vets into the dirt down the stretch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    On the other hand you could see Vanney was the exact opposite as he ground our completely gassed vets into the dirt down the stretch.
    Well... that and being on the road all year, with an injured DP striker.

    I mean, the guy took us to three finals and won one. I really don't think his handling of our roster deserves a whole lot of stick.

    Also, he isn't the one who was signing them; he can't play them in his team if they aren't good enough, right? He obviously was able to manage a winning roster, and chose not to use them. There was no political gain in doing so, no personal stake. It was an assessment of ability.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    It's what he ran in their academy & first team and he did inherit it but there's no history of him ever doing anything else so that's all we have to base him on. In that regard at least we know he can implement that. No clue if he could do anything more forward thinking.
    Thanks. Very helpful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    Thanks. Very helpful.
    Can only judge on what's been seen. We could roll through a dozen pages pages of conjecture on what he could possibly do but at least we know he can do one thing sort of successfully. Other than that, nobody here knows anything so might as well lock the thread until match #1 starts.

 

 

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