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  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavemTFC View Post
    So Armas, who made a team built for the press not press as much is expected to make a team not built for the press press more. Fantastic.

    hahahaha. Nicely played.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    This is the wrong way of thinking about it. The bigger name (maybe not coach but DP) widens the interest in the club exponentially. This, in contrast, as unenthusiastic a hire as they come and Armas might be a good coach (or not) but I give his public speaking a 2/10. You canít headline sports centre with a rambling, shifty-eyed dude who nobody has heard of. Even in this depressed environment, that clip is probably going into the last 5 minutes of taping.

    ..
    The interview with KJ was a reminder of how good Vanney actually is at this stuff.

    The team, & TSN, are carrying a LOT of water for this guy to show he's worth it - he might be good but everything I'm seeing tells me he is mercurial, and in the midst of covid, I'm not sure that works.

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    The recent Davidson article said that Armas was only hired as the coach and not the technical director as well, like Vanney was. Manning has also been quoted as saying that Curtis is solely responsible for player acquisitions now. Of course collaboration will happen, but all players will now be the sole discretion of a man who after a very short playing career worked as a banker before returning to MLS as the technical director for NYRB. Doesnít mean he canít do the job but I found his background surprising for the amount of trust and power heís been given. This is without a doubt all on Curtis now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamp Berg View Post
    The recent Davidson article said that Armas was only hired as the coach and not the technical director as well, like Vanney was. Manning has also been quoted as saying that Curtis is solely responsible for player acquisitions now. Of course collaboration will happen, but all players will now be the sole discretion of a man who after a very short playing career worked as a banker before returning to MLS as the technical director for NYRB. Doesn’t mean he can’t do the job but I found his background surprising for the amount of trust and power he’s been given. This is without a doubt all on Curtis now.

    Tim Bez didn't play at the level that Curtis did, went to law school afterward his playing career ended, then returned to MLS as a Player relations and contract specialist (Pretty much the same position Ali Curtis started off with) and I mean Bez did alright.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    So true, I am now going to say something that will piss some people on this board off. Vanney was an excellent communicator, and you need that in a coach. But I remember looking back at 2017 Payroll, Lieweike & MLSE spent money to win. Vanney won one time.... was he a tactical genius. I would say that is suspect.
    We'll get a clearer idea when we see how he does with LAG, a team with ambitions, but not as high a spender as TFC. I think he'll likely do quite well. Genius? That's reserved for people like Pep, I wouldn't even put Zidane in that category.


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    Lots of top executives in other sports played a minimal amount at a high level in their sport. At other Toronto teams, Brendan Shannahan is the only to have played at the top league in their sport. Ross Atkins played 5 minor league seasons. Soccer is probably the exception in relying on former players for top roles compared to other sports.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    This is the wrong way of thinking about it. The bigger name (maybe not coach but DP) widens the interest in the club exponentially. This, in contrast, as unenthusiastic a hire as they come and Armas might be a good coach (or not) but I give his public speaking a 2/10. You canít headline sports centre with a rambling, shifty-eyed dude who nobody has heard of. Even in this depressed environment, that clip is probably going into the last 5 minutes of taping.

    This team doesnít have much of a history to fall back on, it needs big, attention-grabbing moments to keep market interest. You have a large audience in GTA and beyond that likes soccer. You just have to sell them on the credibility of your product. You could probably trace a decent chunk of interest we have today back to Defoe, Giovonco, and all the hype created by the last management team.

    Just to come full circle on this, I am concerned regardless of what Manning and Curtis can accomplish on the field, off of it they are hopeless when it comes to marketing. I feel like we could have a good team and public interest would still drop off because they just donít get it.

    And hilariously, when people reference whether they are up for the challenge of managing here, we get talk of ďoh, Ali managed in New YorkĒ (cause whatís Toronto if you can handle that? Right??). Except New York was actually New Jersey and that team struggles to be relevant. Itís like me saying Iím a big-time chef in Manhattan and when in reality I run a hotdog cart on the corner of Times Square.
    Was that you? I think I bought one of your hot dogs back in 2018.

    I maintain that Toronto is a lousy sports town that consistently supports only one team, the Leafs. As for the others, interest fluctuates up and down depending on whether they are perceived as being trendy at the moment. The Raps are the "in" team at the moment but that will fade if they have a losing record. As for TFC, they need a Seba type player to expand interest. However that only lasts for a short period of time while the player is here. It seems that Seba's tenure did not expand the overall fan base, which regrettably remains small.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    Tim Bez didn't play at the level that Curtis did, went to law school afterward his playing career ended, then returned to MLS as a Player relations and contract specialist (Pretty much the same position Ali Curtis started off with) and I mean Bez did alright.
    That is true but I would still argue that Bez has had a much more notable career during his time at MLS HQ and afterwards. In fact they left their HQ jobs only a year apart and Bez has had a lot more success since then, especially considering player acquisitions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamp Berg View Post
    That is true but I would still argue that Bez has had a much more notable career during his time at MLS HQ and afterwards. In fact they left their HQ jobs only a year apart and Bez has had a lot more success since then, especially considering player acquisitions.

    Let's be real here though - TFC ambition was a lot higher than NYRB. Our luck in landing Seba and Jozy could not have been replicated at NYRB. I think Curtis did ok considering what he had

    Question - When TFC made the run to the CCL finals - was Ali in charge of RB at the time? Because they were in the other Semi-finals weren't they?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    Let's be real here though - TFC ambition was a lot higher than NYRB. Our luck in landing Seba and Jozy could not have been replicated at NYRB. I think Curtis did ok considering what he had

    Question - When TFC made the run to the CCL finals - was Ali in charge of RB at the time? Because they were in the other Semi-finals weren't they?
    Youíre right, he did okay with what he had. But can you honestly say youíve seen anything from him that in stills confidence that he can be successful running a big club?

  11. #221
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    Kristian Dyer
    @KristianRDyer
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    Per multiple sources, hearing that Jason Bent will join Greg Vanney on his staff with the #LAGalaxy.

    the funny part is that a new york writer has the story of a canadian leaving tfc to join vanney in LA

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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    Was that you? I think I bought one of your hot dogs back in 2018.

    I maintain that Toronto is a lousy sports town that consistently supports only one team, the Leafs. As for the others, interest fluctuates up and down depending on whether they are perceived as being trendy at the moment. The Raps are the "in" team at the moment but that will fade if they have a losing record. As for TFC, they need a Seba type player to expand interest. However that only lasts for a short period of time while the player is here. It seems that Seba's tenure did not expand the overall fan base, which regrettably remains small.
    That was me, serving hot dogs in my spider man costume (why settle for one side hustle?)

    I agree, itís a leafs town and everyone plays second fiddle. But letís remember the Leafs got there through history and everyone else has to build it. There is a future I this town for basketball and soccer. Honestly, if not for that terrible strike, baseball would be in a different place today too.

    Creating those moments people remember will grow the fan base and keep people coming back. Sure, itís not the same as time passes. TFC interest today is not the same as it was with Giovonco in his prime but Iíd argue itís also greater than it was pre Giovonco. The size of BMO has thrown off our compass a bit but letís remember we went from a sometimes full house 18k seater to a now sometimes capacity 30,000 seater.

    Stay the right course and things will improve. But we will get there faster and go further if the team tries to inspire rather than simply quietly achieve. This is entertainment as much as it is sport, after all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    That was me, serving hot dogs in my spider man costume (why settle for one side hustle?)

    I agree, it’s a leafs town and everyone plays second fiddle. But let’s remember the Leafs got there through history and everyone else has to build it. There is a future I this town for basketball and soccer. Honestly, if not for that terrible strike, baseball would be in a different place today too.

    Creating those moments people remember will grow the fan base and keep people coming back. Sure, it’s not the same as time passes. TFC interest today is not the same as it was with Giovonco in his prime but I’d argue it’s also greater than it was pre Giovonco. The size of BMO has thrown off our compass a bit but let’s remember we went from a sometimes full house 18k seater to a now sometimes capacity 30,000 seater.

    Stay the right course and things will improve. But we will get there faster and go further if the team tries to inspire rather than simply quietly achieve. This is entertainment as much as it is sport, after all.
    The Belgians bought the jays and stopped spending money. Nothing to do with the strike whatsoever.

    And we were always sold out. Always. until 2012 which was soul destroying.

    Otherwise, you are not wrong.

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    I listened to Armas' interview on ExtraTime Radio (MLS) and I came away with a couple of thoughts.

    He was asked at one point what he thought about of his tenure at NYRB and if he's different now (something along these lines), his answer came across to me as a bit defensive in that he argued that expectations didn't really line up with the reality of a club having the third lowest payroll. He then went on to talk about his pressing stats which showed NYRB doing quite well in winning the ball back among other things. He also used the excuse of Tyler Adams leaving which created a major hole for them. Personally I prefer people owning up to how they did.

    I'm not sure what to think overall. I like many here would have wanted someone with some real pedigree. I do like however that he's well respected by Bradley as I do view Bradley as a great leader. I also really love pressing football so part of me is excited to see a bit of that this year even though we don't have team built for it.

    I do think we're going to start seeing some major changes, Jozy may not last long if we're really going to jump full into a press system and I also see Michael becoming an assistant here once he's done. On Michael, Armas stated that he is as hungry as ever to get back onto the field and prove people wrong so I do look forward to that. He did look like he lost a step last year but the man cares more than many, he is full on TFC.

    Overall, somewhat disappointed but I'm ready to see what happens next and we have no choice now but to get behind Armas and this team and hope that the leadership team pulls in a quality DP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barticusz View Post
    I listened to Armas' interview on ExtraTime Radio (MLS) and I came away with a couple of thoughts.

    He was asked at one point what he thought about of his tenure at NYRB and if he's different now (something along these lines), his answer came across to me as a bit defensive in that he argued that expectations didn't really line up with the reality of a club having the third lowest payroll. He then went on to talk about his pressing stats which showed NYRB doing quite well in winning the ball back among other things. He also used the excuse of Tyler Adams leaving which created a major hole for them. Personally I prefer people owning up to how they did.

    I'm not sure what to think overall. I like many here would have wanted someone with some real pedigree. I do like however that he's well respected by Bradley as I do view Bradley as a great leader. I also really love pressing football so part of me is excited to see a bit of that this year even though we don't have team built for it.

    I do think we're going to start seeing some major changes, Jozy may not last long if we're really going to jump full into a press system and I also see Michael becoming an assistant here once he's done. On Michael, Armas stated that he is as hungry as ever to get back onto the field and prove people wrong so I do look forward to that. He did look like he lost a step last year but the man cares more than many, he is full on TFC.

    Overall, somewhat disappointed but I'm ready to see what happens next and we have no choice now but to get behind Armas and this team and hope that the leadership team pulls in a quality DP.
    There's going to be a lot of changes, as TFC aren't built for a press. The big question mark will be, does Pozuelo buy into the press and does his bit. Nico Lodeiro runs his ass off for press for Seattle, but he's an exceptional case for a playmaker, rather than the norm.

    Add in the fact that the kids are likely going to get more playtime. Growing pains and allowing them to make mistakes. Well, win now vs developing the kids is probably the hardest thing you can do to run a team.

    Bottom line is, I think TFC is going to be maybe a mid table team. Armas didn't get hired to win now. He got hired to set up TFC on a certain trajectory, which requires a lot of changes.

    "
    Hell is always loose here. It can't break loose again
    ."
    -Fort York Redcoat, on the state of TFC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    There's going to be a lot of changes, as TFC aren't built for a press. The big question mark will be, does Pozuelo buy into the press and does his bit. Nico Lodeiro runs his ass off for press for Seattle, but he's an exceptional case for a playmaker, rather than the norm.

    Add in the fact that the kids are likely going to get more playtime. Growing pains and allowing them to make mistakes. Well, win now vs developing the kids is probably the hardest thing you can do to run a team.

    Bottom line is, I think TFC is going to be maybe a mid table team. Armas didn't get hired to win now. He got hired to set up TFC on a certain trajectory, which requires a lot of changes.
    The hard part to understand is why the FO is lying about it. Do they think that if the team started winning consistently that a lot more people will come to the games and follow the team? If so, thatís seems like a huge underestimation of the Toronto sports environment. Really doesnít seem like many people are paying attention to TFC since Seba left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    The Belgians bought the jays and stopped spending money. Nothing to do with the strike whatsoever.

    And we were always sold out. Always. until 2012 which was soul destroying.

    Otherwise, you are not wrong.
    I dunno.

    Pre-strike, post-strike there was a 10,000 person drop in attendance in one season. And itís been a slow death steady decline of sorts ever since.We lost our only other Canadian team after the Expos who were in a good position to break through and win everything were relegated to the sidelines.

    Sure the Belgians were cheap. But in the end itís all a marketing exercise in giving people what they want ... and after that strike a lot of them didnít want baseball anymore.

    I think the sellout language used by the club after year 3-4 or so was dubious. Edit: but I think we can generally agree the club has generally done well attendance wise with the exception of the area immediately pre-Defoe when all just seemed hopeless.
    Last edited by ag futbol; 01-16-2021 at 02:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I dunno.

    Pre-strike, post-strike there was a 10,000 person drop in attendance in one season. And it’s been a slow death steady decline of sorts ever since.We lost our only other Canadian team after the Expos who were in a good position to break through and win everything were relegated to the sidelines.

    Sure the Belgians were cheap. But in the end it’s all a marketing exercise in giving people what they want ... and after that strike a lot of them didn’t want baseball anymore.

    I think the sellout language used by the club after year 3-4 or so was dubious. Edit: but I think we can generally agree the club has generally done well attendance wise with the exception of the area immediately pre-Defoe when all just seemed hopeless.

    agree.

    I was a Jays season ticket holder and gave them up at renewal for '94 because they got rid of several excellent players ($$$) and raised the price of beer. it got up my nose, but you are right that others might have lost interest given the absence of baseball during the strike

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    agree.

    I was a Jays season ticket holder and gave them up at renewal for '94 because they got rid of several excellent players ($$$) and raised the price of beer. it got up my nose, but you are right that others might have lost interest given the absence of baseball during the strike
    For me it was the reason for the strike. Using the world series as leverage, tells me that it is not a dream. If the world series is simply a negotiation tactic and not a dream, I will choose to not care about it.
    Baseball died for me with that strike.
    Talking to a season ticket seller at a show a decade or so ago, he mentioned that he was still hearing a lot that 1994 strike was why people didn't want tickets. I would bet my generation was pretty much lost to baseball with that strike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamp Berg View Post
    You’re right, he did okay with what he had. But can you honestly say you’ve seen anything from him that in stills confidence that he can be successful running a big club?
    I haven't seen anything yet to tell me the opposite. He will never get credit for it, but while he was here he:

    - Brought in Omar
    - Brought in Piatti
    - Drafted Achara (verdict is still out on him, but his initial impression prior to the injury have been good)
    - Pozuelo? He had a hand in that - no matter how small - it got done.
    - Got enough pieces in for us to an MLS Cup final

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    I haven't seen anything yet to tell me the opposite. He will never get credit for it, but while he was here he:

    - Brought in Omar
    - Brought in Piatti
    - Drafted Achara (verdict is still out on him, but his initial impression prior to the injury have been good)
    - Pozuelo? He had a hand in that - no matter how small - it got done.
    - Got enough pieces in for us to an MLS Cup final
    I would argue that Pozuelo is the only hiring you listed that has brought true value, and he was supposedly on the radar far before Curtis came. I personally think Omar is very overrated, Piatti was admittedly a stop-gap, and Archara is a crap shoot. That said, I believe Curtis is good for younger players, including Archara.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamp Berg View Post
    I would argue that Pozuelo is the only hiring you listed that has brought true value, and he was supposedly on the radar far before Curtis came. I personally think Omar is very overrated, Piatti was admittedly a stop-gap, and Archara is a crap shoot. That said, I believe Curtis is good for younger players, including Archara.

    I thought Piatti was solid business. He proved to be valuable (when he wasn't injured) but he also brought to light the type of DP we need to compliment Pozuelo.
    Yes, he was a stop gap. The contract that was signed made It was clear from the start that he was. But we have zero commitments to him and are able to go out and get something better.

    For me - I will get a better indication of Curtis' abilities when:

    - Our Next DP signing.

    - In the long term (2-3 years) I want to see how many academy products are in the starting 11 - or at least on the subs bench as viable options

    - Remaining Shield, MLS Cup and CCL contenders through all of this - I expect us to make honest runs at those trophies on the regular. Not expecting finals all the time, but I should never have to question wether or not we are good enough to make those runs.

    I felt we should've made runs at the Orlando cup, Supporters Shield and the MLS Cup last year. But i'll give benefit of the doubt. They were away from home and that does take its toll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    I thought Piatti was solid business. He proved to be valuable (when he wasn't injured) but he also brought to light the type of DP we need to compliment Pozuelo.
    Yes, he was a stop gap. The contract that was signed made It was clear from the start that he was. But we have zero commitments to him and are able to go out and get something better.

    For me - I will get a better indication of Curtis' abilities when:

    - Our Next DP signing.

    - In the long term (2-3 years) I want to see how many academy products are in the starting 11 - or at least on the subs bench as viable options

    - Remaining Shield, MLS Cup and CCL contenders through all of this - I expect us to make honest runs at those trophies on the regular. Not expecting finals all the time, but I should never have to question wether or not we are good enough to make those runs.

    I felt we should've made runs at the Orlando cup, Supporters Shield and the MLS Cup last year. But i'll give benefit of the doubt. They were away from home and that does take its toll.
    I agree with your expectations. I think most of us would agree. Whether Curtis can achieve that still seems like a giant question mark. Itís hard to believe in someone who always seems like heís full of shit.
    I actually like Piatti, but he was a very risky hire and not what was promised. On the other hand, I think Omar was a horrible signing for what he costs. Our defence needed/needs a new Drew Moor, Omar is a far cry from that.
    Iím really hoping Curtis will come through and show that heís just a poor communicator and not a self-serving corporate blowhard. If he does, Iíll be the first to admit Iím wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamp Berg View Post
    I agree with your expectations. I think most of us would agree. Whether Curtis can achieve that still seems like a giant question mark. It’s hard to believe in someone who always seems like he’s full of shit.
    I actually like Piatti, but he was a very risky hire and not what was promised. On the other hand, I think Omar was a horrible signing for what he costs. Our defence needed/needs a new Drew Moor, Omar is a far cry from that.
    I’m really hoping Curtis will come through and show that he’s just a poor communicator and not a self-serving corporate blowhard. If he does, I’ll be the first to admit I’m wrong.
    Good Luck finding a team that will part with a CB the likes of Drew Moor. I'm not sure how we got him, but man, that was a rare steal... Similar to us getting Giovinco on the free.

    Deals for these types of players are not everywhere just waiting to be had. I thought Omar was "good enough". His leadership out the back help get us to that 2019 Final. He's no Drew Moor, but he is more than capable to do the job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamp Berg View Post
    I agree with your expectations. I think most of us would agree. Whether Curtis can achieve that still seems like a giant question mark. It’s hard to believe in someone who always seems like he’s full of shit.
    I actually like Piatti, but he was a very risky hire and not what was promised. On the other hand, I think Omar was a horrible signing for what he costs. Our defence needed/needs a new Drew Moor, Omar is a far cry from that.
    I’m really hoping Curtis will come through and show that he’s just a poor communicator and not a self-serving corporate blowhard. If he does, I’ll be the first to admit I’m wrong.

    So not to toot Curtis' horn too much - I have noticed he has a ceiling and it's with his contacts list. I'm hoping he has more contacts outside of the NYRB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    I thought Piatti was solid business. He proved to be valuable (when he wasn't injured) but he also brought to light the type of DP we need to compliment Pozuelo.
    Yes, he was a stop gap. The contract that was signed made It was clear from the start that he was. But we have zero commitments to him and are able to go out and get something better.
    .
    I think i saw the true value of Piatti was when he was not in the lineup.... we were a different team and not necessarily in a good way without him. Even though they knocked him around, he was good on the ball.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    I think i saw the true value of Piatti was when he was not in the lineup.... we were a different team and not necessarily in a good way without him. Even though they knocked him around, he was good on the ball.
    I really liked Piatti - and I view his injury was an overuse injury similar to those of Oso and Marky - very tidy and effective player. Not quite a DP but very good.

 

 

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