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  1. #841
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    I have bigger doubts about Michael Bradley actually retiring.
    Me too, I also don’t see why BBradley would want to be the guy to come in and finesse Bradley’s playing time as he ages further

  2. #842
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    I don’t hate Bob but I’d share other’s lack of enthusiasm.

    In LA he has a mediocre roster, a usually shakey central defence, and a star player he needs to get more of. Couldn’t get them over the hump.

    We have a mediocre roster, a usually shakey central defence, and a star player we need to get more of. But I’m sure it will work much better!

  3. #843
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I don’t hate Bob but I’d share other’s lack of enthusiasm.

    In LA he has a mediocre roster, a usually shakey central defence, and a star player he needs to get more of. Couldn’t get them over the hump.

    We have a mediocre roster, a usually shakey central defence, and a star player we need to get more of. But I’m sure it will work much better!
    He took them to the Supporter's Shield (the title that really counts, I will always believe) two years ago and has at least won one title, albeit a long time ago. He has a good rep.

    My bigger concern is why he let so many important parts of the team leave: MAK, Walker Zimmerman, three or four solid strikers. My fear is that he sheds "strong" personalities he can't control, as several of the guys he traded or let go had discipline/arrogance issues when they were younger.

    But working against that is that he favors Raheem, who was all of those things when with us, apparently.

    Tough to say. His teams usually play attractive, competitive football. Compared to Armas he'd be pretty welcome, I imagine.

  4. #844
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    He took them to the Supporter's Shield (the title that really counts, I will always believe) two years ago and has at least won one title, albeit a long time ago. He has a good rep.

    My bigger concern is why he let so many important parts of the team leave: MAK, Walker Zimmerman, three or four solid strikers. My fear is that he sheds "strong" personalities he can't control, as several of the guys he traded or let go had discipline/arrogance issues when they were younger.

    But working against that is that he favors Raheem, who was all of those things when with us, apparently.

    Tough to say. His teams usually play attractive, competitive football. Compared to Armas he'd be pretty welcome, I imagine.
    It's also hard to know who's making the calls on player decisions, Bob Bradley or John Thorrington. Or both?

    LAFC had big salary cap issues, and some trades they did, because they thought they can fill the loss while benefiting from the GAM and TAM they got.

    It's just LAFC never quite had the depth TFC had in 2017. But LAFC's run to CCL final was pretty damn good.
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

  5. #845
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    Wasnt it a case of they pissed their expansion allocation $$$ up the walls so had to make big trades get some funny money back?

  6. #846
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    Why would MLSE can Manning for Bradley? What Exactly did Manning do to warrant dismissal?

    2016 - MLS Cup Final
    2017 - MLS Cup Final
    2018 - CL Final
    2019 - MLS Cup Final
    2020 - 2nd overall
    2020 - Shit

    One shit season? You think MLSE will can him because of 1 shit season?

    Fucking hell.
    I hope you won’t take this personally but I really dislike this style of post. Total cherry picking to make the point, and ignoring the obvious.

    This is a bizarro world picture of what went on here. 2018 was garbage, the CCL run was an extension of 2017. 2016, 2017 and the CCL run belong to Leiweke, full stop.

    2019 was a fluke, we were not an elite team, it was a comment on the goofy playoff system. 2020 should never have been played, and we racked up points against Canadian teams that were not good.

    Then you layer on payroll. Then layer on all the messes.

    If this guy worked for me, I'd have him pegged as a guy who woke up on third base and thought he hit a triple.
    Last edited by ensco; 11-03-2021 at 03:50 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  7. #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I hope you won’t take this personally but I really dislike this style of post. Total cherry picking to make the point, and ignoring the obvious.

    This is a bizarro world picture of what went on here. 2018 was garbage, the CCL run was an extension of 2017. 2016, 2017 and the CCL run belong to Leiweke, full stop.

    2019 was a fluke, we were not an elite team, it was a comment on the goofy playoff system. 2020 should never have been played, and we racked up points against Canadian teams that were not good.

    Then you layer on payroll. Then layer on all the messes.

    If this guy worked for me, I'd have him pegged as a guy who woke up on third base and thought he hit a triple.
    That's what the board will see - on top of all the Canadian Championships and overseeing the stadium expansion and upgrades. Fool yourself as much as you want.

    He ain't getting canned over any of the stuff you pointed out.This is MLS, not EPL, NHL, MLB - You are pointing out small hiccups that can be erased the following season and have been in the past.

  8. #848
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    That's what the board will see - on top of all the Canadian Championships and overseeing the stadium expansion and upgrades. Fool yourself as much as you want.

    He ain't getting canned over any of the stuff you pointed out.This is MLS, not EPL, NHL, MLB - You are pointing out small hiccups that can be erased the following season and have been in the past.
    I agree with you. In fact, I think we could easily be sold as the second most successful MLS team since about 2015 (only Seattle objectively can say they are better), even if you replace the 2018 CL final with the crap MLS season we had that year. I don't know exactly how sports boards work, let alone one as messed up as the MLSE one appears to be, but my suspicion is they don't know enough about the soccer side to really know better.
    Last edited by Canary10; 11-03-2021 at 04:23 PM.

  9. #849
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    Under Manning the brand value of TFC has significantly declined. It's a total failure on his part to not carry the momentum forward that we had with Gio. We are a complete non factor in this city sporting wise.

    The results in the previous two years were very kind. Vanney was papering over the cracks with vets on the decline. A manager who was going to re-sign would have already started dismantling the core 2-3 years ago. He had one foot out the door yet the club failed to realize this, just like when Gio surprised them(which really they shouldn't have been) they had no plan.

  10. #850
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Kinda like Conte @ Spurs....ok yes but the last year has been such a weird time.
    Or maybe it is like Emery @ Newcastle. Sorry couldn’t resist.

  11. #851
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    That was...well taken

  12. #852
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    I agree with you. In fact, I think we could easily be sold as the second most successful MLS team since about 2015 (only Seattle objectively can say they are better), even if you replace the 2018 CL final with the crap MLS season we had that year. I don't know exactly how sports boards work, let alone one as messed up as the MLSE one appears to be, but my suspicion is they don't know enough about the soccer side to really know better.

    Everyone brings up the 2018 season as if this was a poorly built team and they just played like shit.

    People conveniently forget the number of missed games by key players due to injury that year. It was an injury riddled season. There was even a joke at one point about their plane getting hurt. If you blame that 2018 season on Manning for building a shit team, then you are saying that 2017 was also shit and that incredible season was nothing more than a fluke.

  13. #853
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    Why would MLSE can Manning for Bradley? What Exactly did Manning do to warrant dismissal?

    2016 - MLS Cup Final
    2017 - MLS Cup Final
    2018 - CL Final
    2019 - MLS Cup Final
    2020 - 2nd overall
    2020 - Shit

    One shit season? You think MLSE will can him because of 1 shit season?

    Fucking hell.

    What changed between these years, oh yes Curtis, if they dont sack him at the very least this will put our team closer to the level of the Argos if not the Rock, they didnt get it right hired their buddy instead of hiring the best possible candidate

  14. #854
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    bob bradley would be a great hire imo.

    has a great record in MLS, his teams play attractive, attacking football and has a track record dealing with egos.

    even this year with LAFC, their underlying metrics (xg, xGa, etc) have been excellent, they just lost rossi and vela for most the year so couldn't convert chances.

    of course, doesn't matter what manager we have if we don't significantly revamp the squad (GK, CB, ST), but assuming we do, I'd be very on board with bradley.

  15. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    Why would MLSE can Manning for Bradley? What Exactly did Manning do to warrant dismissal?

    2016 - MLS Cup Final
    2017 - MLS Cup Final
    2018 - CL Final
    2019 - MLS Cup Final
    2020 - 2nd overall
    2020 - Shit

    One shit season? You think MLSE will can him because of 1 shit season?

    Fucking hell.
    He inherited the core of the 2016/17 and has completely failed to properly guide the obvious and needed transition. Maybe gets a break and is relieved of his Argos duties but basically has gotten more big calls wrong than right and has guided a great club down to disaster, while seemingly oblivious. I hear he is a lovely person so that feels harsh but that’s how I see it.

    EDIT - after seeing other posts - the board will see the empty stadiums. Yes there are reasons but he will be on thin ice. As he should be.
    Last edited by MightyDM; 11-04-2021 at 06:40 AM.

  16. #856
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    He inherited the core of the 2016/17 and has completely failed to properly guide the obvious and needed transition. Maybe gets a break and is relieved of his Argos duties but basically has gotten more big calls wrong than right and has guided a great club down to disaster, while seemingly oblivious. I hear he is a lovely person so that feels harsh but that’s how I see it.

    EDIT - after seeing other posts - the board will see the empty stadiums. Yes there are reasons but he will be on thin ice. As he should be.
    Yeah empty stadiums the board may feel, although I don't think it'll be a huge issue because of the pandemic. TFC did that little poll of season ticket holders asking whether they intend to renew for next year. That probably will be the most important thing. If they can say we're still tracking at a very high renewal rate attendance will turn around next year when people no longer have the option of opting in.

    I do think for people in the know, if you scratch the surface Manning's tenure is mixed at best. But I don't think the board has the same narrative we do.

  17. #857
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    I don't think Manning was the difference (Though ultimately he's made the hires I guess) but losing Bezbechenko was the difference maker. TFC pre and post Bez vs with Bez is night and day

  18. #858
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    Quote Originally Posted by gracos View Post
    What changed between these years, oh yes Curtis, if they dont sack him at the very least this will put our team closer to the level of the Argos if not the Rock, they didnt get it right hired their buddy instead of hiring the best possible candidate
    He would be the guy to go.

  19. #859
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    I don't think Manning was the difference (Though ultimately he's made the hires I guess) but losing Bezbechenko was the difference maker. TFC pre and post Bez vs with Bez is night and day
    This was coming with or without Bez. Most of these albatross contracts began under him. He's doing the same thing at Columbus but accelerated. We need not only a capologist but someone who can get the academy churning out MLS rotation ready players on a consistent basis. So basically we need and have long needed a full FO overhaul. Not sure Bradley is it but if he is our guy he will demand a lot of power and he will at least axe the fitness people and that's a good start. We need a new "Bez" but not one that's just about buying depth but also developing it.

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    Bez was great, but he also gave out big contracts to Bono, Zav, GVDW, and Aketxe. He was far from perfect.

  21. #861
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    Quote Originally Posted by noxx98 View Post
    Bez was great, but he also gave out big contracts to Bono, Zav, GVDW, and Aketxe. He was far from perfect.
    People don't want to acknowledge that he brought in a lot of junk
    You also better not mention that it took Bez 4 off-seasons to get TFC into the place they were at by the 2017 season, it'll fuck with their narrative that Bill Manning is shit.
    Last edited by jabbronies; 11-04-2021 at 02:51 PM.

  22. #862
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    Edwards Rogers wins the family battle.

    This will have all sorts of twists & turns over the next 10 years.

  23. #863
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    Everyone's buys junk, if you're judging someone who didn't bat 1,000 you think every manager in the history of the game was bad and judging signings like Aketxe which, imo, made total sense at the time but just didn't work out is only useful when you have the benefit of hindsight. Bez would not have done things like renew Jozy at that price or tie up so much cap space on Gonzalez, t6he truly awful decisions started happening immediately after he left and the Crew picked up almost immediately after he arrived. You can track Toronto FC in three eras, pre Bez, with Bez, post Bez and we were not a dumpster fire more often than we were in one of those eras

  24. #864
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    Everyone's buys junk, if you're judging someone who didn't bat 1,000 you think every manager in the history of the game was bad and judging signings like Aketxe which, imo, made total sense at the time but just didn't work out is only useful when you have the benefit of hindsight. Bez would not have done things like renew Jozy at that price or tie up so much cap space on Gonzalez, t6he truly awful decisions started happening immediately after he left and the Crew picked up almost immediately after he arrived. You can track Toronto FC in three eras, pre Bez, with Bez, post Bez and we were not a dumpster fire more often than we were in one of those eras
    Problem isn't junk per se, but Bez hands out raises that end up killing squad depth. He's the guy who handed Zavaleta his larger contract and Bono as well. Only difference between Bez & Curtis is that Curtis takes 3-4 months to make a decision that Bez can make in a day. As for hiring managers, Bez hasn't really done that from scratch yet. Vanney was in our system already and so was Porter there.

    I agree Bez was good but he wasn't the be all and end all of GMs. He was better than Curtis though based on his speed in making decisions and that counts for a lot in that gig. Who knows how much we missed out on by being asleep at the switch.

  25. #865
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Problem isn't junk per se, but Bez hands out raises that end up killing squad depth. He's the guy who handed Zavaleta his larger contract and Bono as well. Only difference between Bez & Curtis is that Curtis takes 3-4 months to make a decision that Bez can make in a day. As for hiring managers, Bez hasn't really done that from scratch yet. Vanney was in our system already and so was Porter there.

    I agree Bez was good but he wasn't the be all and end all of GMs. He was better than Curtis though based on his speed in making decisions and that counts for a lot in that gig. Who knows how much we missed out on by being asleep at the switch.
    Yeah those contracts are fair comments, though I think both players have very quickly regressed which makes them look even worse. I think in general his roster/cap management was up there for best in the league, though. The squad/depth we had in 2016 was frankly insane for a salary cap league and that was a culmination of a lot of astute signings at good prices

  26. #866
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    though I think both players have very quickly regressed which makes them look even worse.
    Now with Bono I blame Conway for this. It's a trend now. Irwin, Bono, and now Westberg all followed the exact same trajectory.

    1st year starting - Very good to excellent
    2nd year - New flaws begin to appear. Distribution stats start to drop.
    3rd year - GK is ruined. All stats dropped from save percentage to box command to distribution.

    That's 3 GKs under his watch that all regressed from at least good or promising to below average in 3 seasons.

    3 biggest off field changes needed this offseason: entirely new physio/fitness staff, new GK coach, fire Curtis.

  27. #867
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    Bezbatchenko in his three seasons with Columbus has won one mls cup and missed the playoffs twice...not amazing not awful...might get heated if they miss the playoffs again next year

  28. #868
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    Bez' worst mistake at Columbus was the name / logo change attempt.

  29. #869
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Now with Bono I blame Conway for this. It's a trend now. Irwin, Bono, and now Westberg all followed the exact same trajectory.
    Jon Conway is a bit off an odd choice that I've often wondered about. He had a pretty checkered career in nets, played briefly for TFC. Had both outstanding games and terrible games.
    Nothing to suggest that he'd ever be a coach that I can see.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

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    So Pro admitted they blew a call in the RSL/SKC game that allowed RSL to win & took out LAG.


 

 

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