2021 General TFC/MLS Banter (no transfer/roster discussion)

[OgtheDim]

Straus in SI pointing out how this is a trend within the league

https://www.si.com/soccer/2021/05/10...me-mls-rebrand


I don't buy it being a league mandated move. The new ownership also own the Browns. That team did a uniform revamp in 2015 that was universally panned. 6 years later, they are pretty much back to where they started. This looks like something akin to that. The ownership guy (son of...you know the type) who did that rebrand is apparently behind this one.

BUT, I do see the trend Straus is talking about. A lot of teams are going with black because...reasons. The biggest crime is Inter Miaimi who have pink & refuse to do anything with it but simple piping.

[ensco]

Having slept on this... I can totally see that the name needs to be changed (the “Crew” screams minor league baseball or ECHL)... BUT I think the way they handled this and the timing was poor (who the hell does this mid season?)

I also agree that the logo is bad clip art, yeesh. They have an excellent logo that could easily be kept, and if they have half a brain, they will keep it and just replace Crew with SC on it.

They should have taken their case to the SavetheCrew people, explained it to them, asked them how they want to keep using the Crew name. They owed them that and would have had a better outcome.

All this stuff about how SavetheCrew are owed this debt because they “saved” the team is overwrought btw. People don’t want the truth to be the truth when it comes to money and sports these days. The Haslams and the City of Columbus saved the Crew. The SavetheCrew people seem to want to take credit for rallying the cause for public funds, but I think these arguments are generally hollow (without following every in and out). Cities don’t do this for a few thousand supporters, and probably aren’t aligned with hardcores on marketing.

[OgtheDim]

This is also a case of NFL ownership style (top down approach with little to no input coupled with not making changes to bad marketing decisions until obvious balance sheet evidence is seen) running into MLS supporter culture.

From the looks of things, this is how this likely went down

Somebody in new ownership gets sold on "New stadium - chance for a new rebrand". New stadium, new rebrand becomes the thinking behind all changes.

Presented to soccer management as "we are doing this, what do we need to take into account because you know these people & we know from Save the Crew they act differntly then NFL fans"

Told should do outreach

Outreach run by marketing consultants, not stakeholder consultants (there is a difference)

Rebrand planning happens seperate & run by marketing people with no history with club or soccer

Soccer people, due to Covid season and MLS cup campaign, barely involved in outreach & only brought into rebrand at decision stage of "which one"

After MLS Cup, soccer people have breath to go look at & realise this is going to be hell with supporters. Try to begin Nordecker outreach but realise fait acompli for changes so don't really consult.

NOBODY thinks "Maybe this is a bad idea mid season" due to inertia.


Ball rolls down hill

Shit show ensues

[ensco]

^You say it like it's not true that “NFL ownership style” has had results that owners in every other sport dream about. Without fan backlash.

It is very possible that these guys mostly know exactly what they are doing. (Even if I think the new logo sucks. There is some science around this.)

btw the problem with consultation is leaks and loss of control over the narrative. Solving for that is not easy. There is no supporters group on earth that could really be trusted by any management to keep something like this bottled up.

I think the Haslams probably should have consulted and taken the leaks. But that is a view from the cheap seats.

[rydermike]

The early season rebrand to me screams damage control. Just looking at the website a couple of times over the past day, it's been changing slowly from Crew to SC. Usually with rebrands, it's an immediate transition from old to new. I feel like this was planned for after the season to coincide with the new stadium. They released a new jersey two months ago. Why do that if they were going to toss them. Then it got leaked with so much bad press that they had to do it now.

[Canary10]

Having slept on this... I can totally see that the name needs to be changed (the “Crew” screams minor league baseball or ECHL)... BUT I think the way they handled this and the timing was poor (who the hell does this mid season?)

I also agree that the logo is bad clip art, yeesh. They have an excellent logo that could easily be kept, and if they have half a brain, they will keep it and just replace Crew with SC on it.

They should have taken their case to the SavetheCrew people, explained it to them, asked them how they want to keep using the Crew name. They owed them that and would have had a better outcome.

All this stuff about how SavetheCrew are owed this debt because they “saved” the team is overwrought btw. People don’t want the truth to be the truth when it comes to money and sports these days. The Haslams and the City of Columbus saved the Crew. The SavetheCrew people seem to want to take credit for rallying the cause for public funds, but I think these arguments are generally hollow (without following every in and out). Cities don’t do this for a few thousand supporters, and probably aren’t aligned with hardcores on marketing.

As you said, I really don't get the timing. A few games into the season? That's really strange. I've seen sports reporters tweeting that they aren't sure what logo to put on their websites, etc.

[ag futbol]

As you said, I really don't get the timing. A few games into the season? That's really strange. I've seen sports reporters tweeting that they aren't sure what logo to put on their websites, etc.

There is a mantra in a lot of corporate offices right now (mine included) that nothing is happening with staff and everyone has a lot of spare capacity. “Never waste a crisis”

Therefore, it somehow makes sense to ram-through big initiatives because everyone has bandwidth (as much as that’s completely untrue). Want to implement new enterprise software? Do it now! Merge several departments? Do it now! Launch new strategic initiatives? Do it now!

Forget that we didn’t all of a sudden inherit super powers and things still take time. Some hair-brained exec with a pebble between their ears thinks 2-year system conversions can occur in 6 months.

We’ve already wasted millions of dollars and blown all our timelines on several fronts. But crisis is now the excuse for not getting things done rather than the reason why we could. Good leadership is a rare bird.

[OgtheDim]

^You say it like it's not true that “NFL ownership style” has had results that owners in every other sport dream about. Without fan backlash.

.

There is some fan backlash in the NFL (see the Browns uniforms which returned to the older style a year after that 2015 change because jersey sales were crud) but the % of fans who actually complain in most US sports is so small that they can ignore him. As I said, NFL FO's focus more on revenue.

The difference is in MLS the product includes the hard core fans. The Browns have a famous, for the NFL, supporter section in the "Dawg Pound" but doesn't need them or really use them as a selling feature. MLS teams? "SMOKE, FLAGS, CHEERING...."

[OgtheDim]

...Some hair-brained exec with a pebble between their ears thinks 2-year system conversions can occur in 6 months.

.....

That has me thinking there is likely somebody in MLSE (or the city) thinking this way right now & we are going to see SOMETHING once we can get back into the stands that just wasn't thought through properly.

[portu]

I think lost in all this rebrand nonsense is that MLS clubs are in large part very, very young entities in the grand scheme of things. They don't have entrenched and informal identities, which is why they cling to "legends" that might vaguely deserve that kind of status. Think of the players or coaches in this league that genuinely deserve a statue outside their stadium, not just for service to their club but for achievement as well. It's a short list. And if your list is long then raise your standards to the historical significance of guys like Eusébio and Bobby Moore to Benfica and England, respectively.

Point being, the history of MLS clubs is nascent and in 20 years you'll have to be reminded that the Crew were the Crew. Let's also not forget that the "Crew" is itself the result of mickey mouse corporate branding from the MLS of the 90's and dropping it likely serves to professionalize the club's branding further. If the Crew identity means so much to the hardcore then they shouldn't need their 'corporate overlords' to tell them that it is the official anything and it'll simply continue to carry weight on its own merit.

(Kind of went off - sorry - but Columbus supporters seem to be blind and deaf at times and it's nice to see front office/ownership put effort into being a respectable member of this league).

[ensco]

I think lost in all this rebrand nonsense is that MLS clubs are in large part very, very young entities in the grand scheme of things. They don't have entrenched and informal identities, which is why they cling to "legends" that might vaguely deserve that kind of status. Think of the players or coaches in this league that genuinely deserve a statue outside their stadium, not just for service to their club but for achievement as well. It's a short list. And if your list is long then raise your standards to the historical significance of guys like Eusébio and Bobby Moore to Benfica and England, respectively.

Point being, the history of MLS clubs is nascent and in 20 years you'll have to be reminded that the Crew were the Crew. Let's also not forget that the "Crew" is itself the result of mickey mouse corporate branding from the MLS of the 90's and dropping it likely serves to professionalize the club's branding further. If the Crew identity means so much to the hardcore then they shouldn't need their 'corporate overlords' to tell them that it is the official anything and it'll simply continue to carry weight on its own merit.

(Kind of went off - sorry - but Columbus supporters seem to be blind and deaf at times and it's nice to see front office/ownership put effort into being a respectable member of this league).

Really well put. I think I dislike the logo, but the overreaction on all fronts does nobody any favours.

[ag futbol]

Does replacing one corporate imposed name with another really add to credibility? Is anybody going to look at the name Columbus SC and say “well I couldn’t get behind The Crew, but now, I’m in!”

This process of trying to solve this problem is the same line of thinking that lead to the perceived problem in the first place. Namely, North American corporate-owned teams wanting to dress-up more like community oriented clubs, try to suggest some aura of a rich history, and mimic the feel of football clubs elsewhere in the world to widen their potential audience.

Maybe, if this is the really what these clubs want, they should think about actually engaging the community in a sustained way and thinking about genuine things to get people entrenched in the club. Of course this actually takes time, effort, and actual thought.

What they are doing here is the equivalent of ripping off the hood ornament of a Mercedes and sticking it on a Hyundai Elantra.

[OgtheDim]

I would remind people in here of the shit storm that developed when we had a bit of blue on the one uniform coupled with one tassel of blue on the supporter scarf.

[leedsandTFC]

was still better than this attempted rebrand.

although tbf in this case they had taken **too much** fan input, and was a case of too many cooks spoil the broth.

was also walked back within a few hours.

[Canary10]

was still better than this attempted rebrand.

although tbf in this case they had taken **too much** fan input, and was a case of too many cooks spoil the broth.

was also walked back within a few hours.

Ha ha I remember that. About on par with the original Crew logo.

[Richard]

Absolutely. Keep the blue and white disease far away from this club.

[ensco]

Does replacing one corporate imposed name with another really add to credibility? Is anybody going to look at the name Columbus SC and say “well I couldn’t get behind The Crew, but now, I’m in!”

This process of trying to solve this problem is the same line of thinking that lead to the perceived problem in the first place. Namely, North American corporate-owned teams wanting to dress-up more like community oriented clubs, try to suggest some aura of a rich history, and mimic the feel of football clubs elsewhere in the world to widen their potential audience.

Maybe, if this is the really what these clubs want, they should think about actually engaging the community in a sustained way and thinking about genuine things to get people entrenched in the club. Of course this actually takes time, effort, and actual thought.

What they are doing here is the equivalent of ripping off the hood ornament of a Mercedes and sticking it on a Hyundai Elantra.

Disagree. In the top 7 or 8 leagues in the world, there is a naming convention. Potential fans today are likely to have discovered soccer first by watching teams in those leagues, not MLS, and they know what a serious soccer team name sounds like.

whereas 25 years ago, they had never even seen a game before, and “Mighty Ducks” type marketing to families was required. (This is also how the Raptors got their name, btw.)

[DavemTFC]

Now that it's been a couple days I'm still mostly against the name change, but I can see the benefits of it at least.

The logo though really is utter trash

[ensco]

In case there is any question in your mind about whether this league is interested in the NFL business model...

Check out this tweet at [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Times]https://twitter.com/samstejskal/status/1392528661585223681?s=20[/FONT][/COLOR]

Check out this tweet at [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Times]https://twitter.com/samstejskal/status/1392529018382077959?s=20[/FONT][/COLOR]

[PizzaEatingYeti]

In case there is any question in your mind about whether this league is interested in the NFL business model...

Check out this tweet at [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Times]https://twitter.com/samstejskal/status/1392528661585223681?s=20[/FONT][/COLOR]

Check out this tweet at [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Times]https://twitter.com/samstejskal/status/1392529018382077959?s=20[/FONT][/COLOR]

I hate this.
In all these setups the footy teams are considered big time second (third?) fiddles to the NFL teams.

Ideally all footy teams should be owned by billionaire individuals/families or companies which really love and care about this sport, and are not invested in any other professional team sport.

[Canary10]

I hate this.
In all these setups the footy teams are considered big time second (third?) fiddles to the NFL teams.

Ideally all footy teams should be owned by billionaire individuals/families or companies which really love and care about this sport, and are not invested in any other professional team sport.

Ironically we have a similar setup, but the CFL team is second fiddle to the soccer team.

[ensco]

Any rich guy who buys a team in MLS as his only sports investment seems to turn around and flip it as fast as he can.

[OgtheDim]

In Bez they no longer can trust?

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/_jcmyers/status/1392566843165052933

[OgtheDim]

And the climb down begins

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/_jcmyers/status/1392566082406387715

[OgtheDim]

Just to put the Bez comments into perspective

That's like somebody in RPB leadership telling Bez that a change of the crest & name would be a disaster & him saying "That's OK, we can replace you with 2 people who do like it"

[portu]

If Bez is done at C-Bus sack the whole front office and give him our presidency. Not even joking.

[Blindside16]

If Bez is done at C-Bus sack the whole front office and give him our presidency. Not even joking.

I second this motion

[OgtheDim]

Bez isn't done there but the reasons why he would be gone would make him a non-starter with any team that values its supporters.

He'd go to Houston or NYC or maybe that new team in Charleston.

[portu]

Any rich guy who buys a team in MLS as his only sports investment seems to turn around and flip it as fast as he can.

Yeah because they quickly realize that MLS is propped up by expansion fees

[DavemTFC]

Bez isn't done there but the reasons why he would be gone would make him a non-starter with any team that values its supporters.

He'd go to Houston or NYC or maybe that new team in Charleston.

How much of the rebrand is he really pushing for though? From an outside perspective it looks like he's just doing the Haslams/MLS HQ's bidding. What he told the supporters was gross, but I don't know how much choice he really had