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  1. #1621
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Just wondering: who here thinks it is ever a good idea to bring someone on to your team, who doesn’t want to come, just because you offered a lot more money?

    (I have not changed my view that this Borre thing isn’t happening, was never happening)
    Sounds like a question for the front office that our (non-existent) press coverage should ask. @ all the journos that stalk this forum

  2. #1622
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Just wondering: who here thinks it is ever a good idea to bring someone on to your team, who doesn’t want to come, just because you offered a lot more money?

    (I have not changed my view that this Borre thing isn’t happening, was never happening)
    I guess it's a case of hoping that once they are here, they'll enjoy it and want to stay.

    For example, Giovinco came for the money then liked it here and I think still has a place here; Kyle Lowry for the Raptors initially said when he got traded here, he was going to leave as soon as his contract ended in two years, then liked it so much he's in his 9th year.

  3. #1623
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Just wondering: who here thinks it is ever a good idea to bring someone on to your team, who doesn’t want to come, just because you offered a lot more money?

    (I have not changed my view that this Borre thing isn’t happening, was never happening)
    Did Seba not come for a literal "truck load of money" and then leave for the same reason? No problem with mercenaries if they perform while they are here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Just wondering: who here thinks it is ever a good idea to bring someone on to your team, who doesn’t want to come, just because you offered a lot more money?

    (I have not changed my view that this Borre thing isn’t happening, was never happening)
    Honest question - why would anyone who didn't grow up in Toronto, or played in the MLS, want to come play for TFC?

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    Most players that sign on a free gets a significant signing bonus fee from the new club. Willian when he signed with Arsenal is only earning 110k per week, but his signing bonuses add it up to 193k.

    In Seba’s case, he wanted to create a legacy more than earn big money. He left because we didn’t want to use a DP slot on a declining Seba.

  6. #1626
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    Quote Originally Posted by noimpactinmtl View Post
    In Seba’s case, he wanted to create a legacy more than earn big money. He left because we didn’t want to use a DP slot on a declining Seba.
    While not entirely untrue, everybody needs to have some excuse why it’s not just about the money, even if the circumstances make it blindingly obvious it is.

    I’m not concerned in the slightest. Poz isn’t here for the weather or the challenge either, worked out fine.

  7. #1627
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi10 View Post
    Did Seba not come for a literal "truck load of money" and then leave for the same reason? No problem with mercenaries if they perform while they are here.
    Seba came for money, yes. But he also bought into the vision, the city and community. That’s what separates him from Defoe.

    After Defoe they changed the “Get Drake on the phone” recruitment strategy because swaying signings for the wrong reasons sets unrealistic expectations. The lesson was “don’t sign guys who don’t want to come all on their own”.

    Borré doesn’t want to be at the club, if he did he’d be here. If he does it’s purely for the money and his level of buy-in will show itself on the pitch as it has with every MLS signing where money was the only motivator.

  8. #1628
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    Quote Originally Posted by BramptonRed View Post
    Honest question - why would anyone who didn't grow up in Toronto, or played in the MLS, want to come play for TFC?
    Here comes the debate about whether Toronto is a world class city or not (a quick google search would tell anyone that it is btw).

  9. #1629
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Seba came for money, yes. But he also bought into the vision, the city and community. That’s what separates him from Defoe.

    After Defoe they changed the “Get Drake on the phone” recruitment strategy because swaying signings for the wrong reasons sets unrealistic expectations. The lesson was “don’t sign guys who don’t want to come all on their own”.

    Borré doesn’t want to be at the club, if he did he’d be here. If he does it’s purely for the money and his level of buy-in will show itself on the pitch as it has with every MLS signing where money was the only motivator.
    Do you have sources on money being his only motivator? What about all the chatter about him wanting his old team to get paid? That seems like leaving money on the table. What about the rumours he's waiting for another crack at Europe? That seems like he wants to prove himself on the highest stage that will have him.

    What about the rumours that we have offered the most money? Doesn't that prove that if all he cared about was money, he'd be here?

    Again most of this Borre stuff has been rumours so I don't think we can concretely say if he came here it's only for money, and that in turn he won't play well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    I’d rather we finish dead last than sneak into a playoff spot.
    That's pretty dark. We just came off a season where we were in contention of the shield on final match day. The core of this team is aging but strong, we still have a DP slot to fill.

    Year before we were cup finalists. The 1-game playoffs are volatile and we probably overperformed in 2019 playoffs the same way we got bunkered in 2020. I'd much rather be in the playoffs than out (especially if Jozy happens to be healthy that time of year )

    I haven't written of Armas without seeing his team play yet. Apprehensive sure, but I'll give them time to work through it.

    Don't odds makers have TFC 5th highest for MLS cup? Most outside this forum still consider us to be one of the big boys.

  11. #1631
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Just wondering: who here thinks it is ever a good idea to bring someone on to your team, who doesn’t want to come, just because you offered a lot more money?

    (I have not changed my view that this Borre thing isn’t happening, was never happening)
    Me. I know it doesn't sound romantic but the truth is if TFC (and MLS in general) only signed players who wanted to play here and money wasn't a factor TFCs lineup would have 11 people from this forum. Nobody grew up wanting to play here and we're nobodies dream destination. If you want a Seba or a Poz you need to pay them because they're not coming here for any other reason regardless of what they say publicly

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Just wondering: who here thinks it is ever a good idea to bring someone on to your team, who doesn’t want to come, just because you offered a lot more money?

    (I have not changed my view that this Borre thing isn’t happening, was never happening)
    I saw press from down there saying that it isn't that he doesn't want to come to Toronto/MLS, it's that his first and biggest preference is to go to Europe (no kidding) and his second choice is to stay at River and get paid like what we're offering. Barring that he is open to MLS and Toronto apparently and is appreciative of the offer. They also said he wasn't interested in Brazil at all.

  13. #1633
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post

    Borré doesn’t want to be at the club, if he did he’d be here. If he does it’s purely for the money and his level of buy-in will show itself on the pitch as it has with every MLS signing where money was the only motivator.
    I have to disagree for a couple reasons.
    1 - he's still under contract so unless TFC have offered a transfer fee (and I don't get the sense they have) which has been agreed to by BOTH River and Atleti, then he has no choice at all whether to be anywhere but Argentina. Even though it's annoying to wait there are so many external factors that make these processes slow including transfer windows on multiple continents. Not to mention he's in the middle of his 2021 run (and producing) with River.
    2 - All we know about this process we know from twitter sources, many of whom have a vested financial interest in lying or creating content. Not to mention Borré's representation who gain nothing by making a choice before they get everyone's highest possible bid.
    3 - You can look at examples accross almost all sports where Free Agent players use time and rumour to leverage a better offer. The Blue Jays had a gruelling off season pursuit of George Springer, and MANY times during that pursuit the narrative that he "doesn't want to be in Toronto" was floated. Low and behold eveyone is smiles and chuckles in Spring Training when the money talked, and he had a clear indication of what the best offer would be.

    In the end he could very well decide to go to Europe or Brazil or wherever even if TFC has the highest offer. But I don't know why we are taking an athlete's attempt to make the best choice for his career as an indication that if he comes here he won't work for that money. I know Defoe is a thing, but people said the same thing around here when the Pozuelo drama was happening, and he's been nothing but spectacular for this team.

  14. #1634
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    Quote Originally Posted by BramptonRed View Post
    Honest question - why would anyone who didn't grow up in Toronto, or played in the MLS, want to come play for TFC?

    A chance to play consistently at a higher level then they could in other parts of the world, possibly for more money with 100% guaranteed going to get that paycheque.

    e.g. Tony Gallacher saying he just wanted to play "with men".

    Plus, don't undersell the city.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi10 View Post
    That's pretty dark. We just came off a season where we were in contention of the shield on final match day. The core of this team is aging but strong, we still have a DP slot to fill.

    Year before we were cup finalists. The 1-game playoffs are volatile and we probably overperformed in 2019 playoffs the same way we got bunkered in 2020. I'd much rather be in the playoffs than out (especially if Jozy happens to be healthy that time of year )

    I haven't written of Armas without seeing his team play yet. Apprehensive sure, but I'll give them time to work through it.

    Don't odds makers have TFC 5th highest for MLS cup? Most outside this forum still consider us to be one of the big boys.
    I mean ahead of both those things happening I’d like to see us win it all. My concern is that we do just well enough that the club can call it a success without achieving anything and therefore not try to improve the squad.

    2018 and 2019 are good examples of this in my opinion. We were pure garbage 2018 aside from 6 champions league matches (we squeezed by a Colorado team that didn’t even care). 2019 was a shaky disaster from the start where we got immediately kicked from CCL 5-1 on aggregate to a bunch of part-timers and played disjointed football only saved by individual performances. The saving grace was we lucked our way into an MLS Cup Final.

    Last year we played well at times and snuck wins when we probably didn’t deserve to. The lack of energy, pace and performance from key players (which was present all season) still somehow came as a surprise to some when fucking Nashville bounced us in the first round. Just good enough.

    Every year we “maintain continuity”, rebuilding becomes a longer and more difficult task. Parallel? Manning was extremely successful at RSL, but that team slowly regressed after peaking because they didn’t know how to rebuild. In 2015, Lagerwey left for Seattle in January and RSL fell off a cliff, after which Manning joined us. I want us to do well, but I want us to trend well even more so that we can continue to win.

  16. #1636
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaceyWinger View Post
    In the end he could very well decide to go to Europe or Brazil or wherever even if TFC has the highest offer. But I don't know why we are taking an athlete's attempt to make the best choice for his career as an indication that if he comes here he won't work for that money. I know Defoe is a thing, but people said the same thing around here when the Pozuelo drama was happening, and he's been nothing but spectacular for this team.
    Well said. Whichever DP we sign deserves the benefit of the doubt as to his “intentions.”

  17. #1637
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    If we were expecting him to say nice things in the South American press about potentially playing his football in what they perceive as a frozen gringo hinterland, we all had another thing coming.

    This is about optics (not pissing off the Barra Brava) and an agent who still has flexibility and is trying to get the best deal for his client. If continued negotiation was going to be an issue for TFC, they never should have pursued this. With his split ownership and other complications, this was always going to be how this played out.

    Don’t blame the player. This is just how it is.

  18. #1638
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I saw press from down there saying that it isn't that he doesn't want to come to Toronto/MLS, it's that his first and biggest preference is to go to Europe (no kidding) and his second choice is to stay at River and get paid like what we're offering. Barring that he is open to MLS and Toronto apparently and is appreciative of the offer. They also said he wasn't interested in Brazil at all.
    This is exactly what you say in the Argentine press to not run afoul of the locals. Every bit of it.

  19. #1639
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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    if that is true,why arent they selling,im sure they could of got a good buck for ayo this off season.
    Why are you sure? We've heard exactly one rumor, that a Turkish club was interested.

    But we're in the middle of a pandemic, transfers are down everywhere, and he has 16 games at the MLS level.

    If he's healthy and starts the season, and continues scoring? Then he'll go, if the interest is heavy.

    Teams don't just sign youth stars on a whim, they track them for a while first. Given that he's got less than one full season with the top club and has no prior consistent scoring record, they won't just drop millions on the guy.

    Based on the rumors, the player we're most likely to lose is Jakheel, and that's mostly because he's so young and already talented that they'll get the most professionally out of him, because as with Davies at Bayern, his training will improve markedly.

    Anyone who thinks renewing our front office isn't about their youth record isn't paying attention to history.

    These guys are buying NOBODY if they can avoid it. Ask RSL fans what Bill was like there. The consensus is that they won because of Kreis and Petke, and the front office more or less made it harder on them by never supplying a competitive roster.

    Curtis at least has some success by people under him in youth development. But there, the RB organization backed Jesse Marsch in their falling out, which is why Curtis left. So it would seem they valued the coach, who they moved less than a year later to Austria, than Curtis.... even though they likely already knew Marsch was moving up.

    Doesn't say much positive about Curtis that he was seen as less valuable than a guy they likely already knew was leaving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    This is exactly what you say in the Argentine press to not run afoul of the locals. Every bit of it.
    I would say that admitting he wants to go to Toronto or likes Toronto on any level would be ridiculed down there.

    Football fans are awful snobs. Spend any time in chat boards from various countries and all you ever hear is how shit MLS is. There was a fan in Barnsley's chat board the other night arguing Dike should've been taken off... and he made the argument after he scored a brace. Their fans love Dike, but still underplay both his skill level and his contribution in related contests.

  21. #1641
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Seba came for money, yes. But he also bought into the vision, the city and community. That’s what separates him from Defoe."

    Borré doesn’t want to be at the club, if he did he’d be here. If he does it’s purely for the money and his level of buy-in will show itself on the pitch as it has with every MLS signing where money was the only motivator.
    Yes, Defoe was a mercenary and everyone knew it, who knew of him.... so put him in the rear window.

    On Borre, this is business.. it is always better to negotiate when you have 3 offers. he is nominated for player of the year down there. If he wants to get back to Europe, this is possibly the most lucrative and fastest way....Destroy MLS!! He has an amazing playmaker in POZ and with a third threat Jozy (gets more space). Do i mind if someone who comes for two to three years and then leaves but does that, of course not.

    And by then Poz is 31, Jozy's contract is over and some of our younger guys either have filled in or gone to Europe. He is a great transitional piece for the next phase of TFC ... WIN right now and built out for the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Just wondering: who here thinks it is ever a good idea to bring someone on to your team, who doesn’t want to come, just because you offered a lot more money?

    (I have not changed my view that this Borre thing isn’t happening, was never happening)
    I dunno. The one thing that makes me wonder is the sudden interchange of social media between Borre, Altidore and Pozuelo a couple of weeks ago that as basically all withdrawn within a day. That smacked more of "don't queer the deal". The other explanation is he said 'no' right away, but that seems unlikely given the bargaining position it would cost his agent.

    Maybe his agent didn't want to piss off Palmeiras or Madrid because that's what his client wants, to go there or to Europe. Or he could be looking at it realistically and figuring Borre already had his shot in Spain and it didn't work out, so he won't get better money than MLS is offering. Other leagues in Europe are competing at a higher level, but only the top three or four are paying as much or more than a DP slot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    I would say that admitting he wants to go to Toronto or likes Toronto on any level would be ridiculed down there.
    Ya agreed, I had missed that one point.

    The rest, he might as well have filmed himself saying it from the presidential balcony while holding the Argentine flag its so cliche.

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Here comes the debate about whether Toronto is a world class city or not (a quick google search would tell anyone that it is btw).
    As someone who was born and grew up in South America, I don't think that's really the question here: Toronto is better than most (to not say all) south american cities. It's definitely better than Buenos Aires.

    The problem is that a lot of people down there (and I'm pretty sure in Europe as well) still think that MLS is the same level as it was, let's say, in the 90s. I really like MLS, but I think that a guy like him is not only after money, since he's a good player he's probably waiting to go to Europe and show his potential there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Just wondering: who here thinks it is ever a good idea to bring someone on to your team, who doesn’t want to come, just because you offered a lot more money?

    (I have not changed my view that this Borre thing isn’t happening, was never happening)
    If he really doesn’t want to come here, then it’s a horrible idea. If he comes and works for the money and leaves after doing well, it’s a good idea.
    I love the idea of people coming and buying in totally, like Bradley, but it’s understandable if someone comes just to play well and move on.
    As far as Toronto rates as a city, it’s definitely up there, but nothing can take away the weather here, especially winter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Just wondering: who here thinks it is ever a good idea to bring someone on to your team, who doesn’t want to come, just because you offered a lot more money?

    (I have not changed my view that this Borre thing isn’t happening, was never happening)
    Agreed. But given its Argentina, its murky. Could all be tactics by his agent. But hard to get warm and fuzzy about this player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Seba came for money, yes. But he also bought into the vision, the city and community. That’s what separates him from Defoe.

    After Defoe they changed the “Get Drake on the phone” recruitment strategy because swaying signings for the wrong reasons sets unrealistic expectations. The lesson was “don’t sign guys who don’t want to come all on their own”.

    Borré doesn’t want to be at the club, if he did he’d be here. If he does it’s purely for the money and his level of buy-in will show itself on the pitch as it has with every MLS signing where money was the only motivator.
    Very well put indeed

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    Quote Originally Posted by BramptonRed View Post
    Honest question - why would anyone who didn't grow up in Toronto, or played in the MLS, want to come play for TFC?
    1. obvious reason, money.

    2. Toronto is a great city to raise a family in. Also gives the players to have a reasonable private life that they wouldnt be afforded as a footy star in most other places in the world.

    3. TFC consistently challenges for trophies, and every player wants to win trophies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post

    Anyone who thinks renewing our front office isn't about their youth record isn't paying attention to history.

    These guys are buying NOBODY if they can avoid it. Ask RSL fans what Bill was like there. The consensus is that they won because of Kreis and Petke, and the front office more or less made it harder on them by never supplying a competitive roster.
    ....

    Poz kinda shows this to be untrue, as did GvDW & others bought with TAM. We have been at or near the cap top for all of Manning's tenure. BTW, RSL has always had ownership that was budget conscious.

    Youth being brought forward had to happen eventually - every team in the world does this. Vanney couldn't start to do it until last year because the academy was CRAP before he got here & academy kids don't get to the 1st team level overnight. He seriously talked about it last year as a thing he could finally get done.


    Can't comment on Curtis over Marsch but its obvious Marsch won that internal fight. We'll see on Curtis long term

    But the idea that this team is going youth only & won't spend $? That holds no water.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    I would say that admitting he wants to go to Toronto or likes Toronto on any level would be ridiculed down there.

    Football fans are awful snobs. Spend any time in chat boards from various countries and all you ever hear is how shit MLS is. There was a fan in Barnsley's chat board the other night arguing Dike should've been taken off... and he made the argument after he scored a brace. Their fans love Dike, but still underplay both his skill level and his contribution in related contests.
    Yes. Very few English remember this. Or Americans ...

    https://www.history.com/.amp/this-da...y-over-england

 

 

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