TFC 2020-2021 player off-season roster discussion

[jloome]

Absolutely. I think Manning is very much towing the party line here.

On the one hand I’m sympathetic but on the other I’m frustrated cause there is nothing insightful or interesting to be gleamed out of this.

Other than confirming my suspicion that we ain't seeing a third DP any time soon.

I mean, he's basically confirming what I suggested last week: we are pursuing the FC Dallas model, selling whenever the offer is sufficient.

I'm actually kind of excited. It'll probably flame out horribly this year, as we don't have the defensive depth to risk this much inexperience. But it'll be exciting and maybe one of the kids will get a big move out of it.

I still think we're very competitive. But not signing at least a defender to challenge at CB and a winger is a mistake. The notion of travel restricting scouting these days is absurd; 90% of it is done by video.

Really, that sort of shit is insulting his fan base. Is he that unaware of how educated football consumers are in a Commonwealth country where a third of the population had a grandparent in England or Ital, or Germany? Strewth.

[PaceyWinger]

Other than confirming my suspicion that we ain't seeing a third DP any time soon.

I mean, he's basically confirming what I suggested last week: we are pursuing the FC Dallas model, youth selling club.

I don't know I may be in the minority here but listening to him I got the sense that there is a specific transaction they are being patient in this weird long transfer window to complete. He referenced multiple times comoleting "this acquisition" in relation to the 3rd DP. Not "a" transaction in general. It may be splitting hairs, but when someone is speaking casually they tend to give up more than they normally would and he said it a few times. Listen back at about 36:48 of the poscast. He's saying don't believe the rumours, when we complete this acquisition he thinks the fans will look on the offseason more positively. He specifically indicates at another point that this acquisition is a game-breaker who will help them score goals.

It could all be BS or fall apart, but to me it sounds like they have one player in mind and its at least close to a done deal and that the strategy will be to infuse youth into the core of the side around the DPs.

[MikeForbes]

FC Dallas is a drain on the entire league. They sell players to pay Patrick Mahomes and never re-invest. They will never win anything in MLS because the Cup winners are usually the teams with the best DPs, not the best future USMNT rightback. You can both develop young players and actually attempt to win trophies. Congrats to them on selling Richie Cannon and Bryan Reynolds though. Must be so exciting having those guys for a year or two.

[MikeForbes]

I don't know I may be in the minority here but listening to him I got the sense that there is a specific transaction they are being patient in this weird long transfer window to complete. He referenced multiple times comoleting "this acquisition" in relation to the 3rd DP. Not "a" transaction in general. It may be splitting hairs, but when someone is speaking casually they tend to give up more than they normally would and he said it a few times. Listen back at about 36:48 of the poscast. He's saying don't believe the rumours, when we complete this acquisition he thinks the fans will look on the offseason more positively. He specifically indicates at another point that this acquisition is a game-breaker who will help them score goals.

It could all be BS or fall apart, but to me it sounds like they have one player in mind and its at least close to a done deal and that the strategy will be to infuse youth into the core of the side around the DPs.

Yeah. He specifically mentioned Ruidiaz and Josef Martinez when talking about a DP template. Borré definitely fits that prime age, game changing striker mold.

[OgtheDim]

If they were going the FC Dallas approach this year, a lot of the current roster would have been ditched.

You don't keep Bono, Endoh, Zavs, Morrow, Auro, Bradley, Osorio in the FCD model - you ditch them all for younger options and/or cheaper South/Central American options.

MIGHT keep Mulinho though - his hair is perfect.

[OgtheDim]

Switching gears to be positive for a moment.

If we got Borre, and I know its an if but, hey, in the midst of Covid while we are mostly all waiting for our turn to get a vaccine, why not dream a little, so if we get Borre, our attack is instantly up there with the best in the league.

Poz, Borre, Osorio, whatever we can get out of Altidore, Akinola, ....this is potent firepower going forward. That's better then LAFC or Atlanta

Calling it right now - we get Borre and people stay healthy & the team figures out the press, we challenge for top in the East. May not win it all because defence but man that offence would be fun to watch.

[MikeForbes]

Switching gears to be positive for a moment.

If we got Borre, and I know its an if but, hey, in the midst of Covid while we are mostly all waiting for our turn to get a vaccine, why not dream a little, so if we get Borre, our attack is instantly up there with the best in the league.

Poz, Borre, Osorio, whatever we can get out of Altidore, Akinola, ....this is potent firepower going forward. That's better then LAFC or Atlanta

Calling it right now - we get Borre and people stay healthy & the team figures out the press, we challenge for top in the East. May not win it all because defence but man that offence would be fun to watch.

Watching Borré being set up in the box by beautiful Pozuelo passes this fall at BMO will hopefully help us all forget about this offseason.

[Bushmancan]

Switching gears to be positive for a moment.

If we got Borre, and I know its an if but, hey, in the midst of Covid while we are mostly all waiting for our turn to get a vaccine, why not dream a little, so if we get Borre, our attack is instantly up there with the best in the league.

Poz, Borre, Osorio, whatever we can get out of Altidore, Akinola, ....this is potent firepower going forward. That's better then LAFC or Atlanta

Calling it right now - we get Borre and people stay healthy & the team figures out the press, we challenge for top in the East. May not win it all because defence but man that offence would be fun to watch.

100% Agree.... and why I was so pissed, like he was giving up. I hope you speak and it happens. It is certain from the press down there that he is leaving, this is one example
Borré case: Are you staying or will you look for a new destination?

For
Matthew Modic -

March 23, 2021







Photo. River plate
Rafael Santos Borré is being one of the most important news in terms of signings in South America.
The Colombian striker, who converted a goal poker to Godoy Cruz last date, receives offers from many important teams and is in their sights.

The highest scoring striker in the era Marcelo Gallardo has great teams behind him, among them is Celta de Coudet, Sao Paulo, Palmeiras, among others. Some of them insist on the fight to sign the striker, others have already dropped out. As you can see, in Brazil they want Borré at all costs.
Initially, Rafael Santos Borré will remain in the team led by Marcelo Gallardo until June 30 of this year. From there, the fate of the Colombian will be decided.


Clubs like Palmeiras or Sao Paulo have already dropped out of the fight to hire Borré. The Verdao, for its part, intended to take him free in June. A Palmeiras agent traveled to Argentina, spoke with the player, and the only condition was that if he accepted, he had to go free.
“An investment the size of Borré is out of budget. The club will not try to hire him ”. This is what Julio Casares, president of Sao Paulo, used to say. Borré's market value is currently 15 million.
“Today there is nothing definite about what is going to happen with Borré. We are very far economically from Europe, the United States and Mexico. Rafa has always been very happy to be in Argentina, to wear this shirt. He has found a club that contains him and that has shown the world who Rafael Borré is ”. The word of Enzo Francescoli , manager and legend of River Plate. The Principie was the one who hired Marcelo Gallardo to be in charge of the club.
Many clubs fight for the Colombian. As we named, Palmeiras, Sao Paulo, Celta de Vigo, there were even polls from Major League Soccer. In short, the situation with Rafael Santos Borré is unknown and will remain so until the final moment.

[jloome]

If they were going the FC Dallas approach this year, a lot of the current roster would have been ditched.

You don't keep Bono, Endoh, Zavs, Morrow, Auro, Bradley, Osorio in the FCD model - you ditch them all for younger options and/or cheaper South/Central American options.
.

No team drop half their veterans and just runs kids.

Dallas has one of the most balanced rosters in the league. They've taken the youth approach, but it's been three or four key players a year.

What you're suggesting would be a slaughter. They're not that stupid.

[noxx98]

TFC heading to Orlando today. Looks like families will be joining the players in ~3 weeks rather than coming now.

[Ultra & Proud]

No team drop half their veterans and just runs kids.

Dallas has one of the most balanced rosters in the league. They've taken the youth approach, but it's been three or four key players a year.

What you're suggesting would be a slaughter. They're not that stupid.

But from his list 100% Osorio, Bono, & Bradley would be gone from the FC Dallas model and I would toss Jozy & Poz on that list as well. All making too much money in comparison to their ages. Morrow & Zavaleta possibly but I have no idea what their new contracts are.

[ag futbol]

But from his list 100% Osorio, Bono, & Bradley would be gone from the FC Dallas model and I would toss Jozy & Poz on that list as well. All making too much money in comparison to their ages. Morrow & Zavaleta possibly but I have no idea what their new contracts are.

Not necessarily true. While completely under the radar, in the past FCD has had a quality DP in Bryan Acosta, a very, very quality TAM in Michael Barrios, and experienced guys like Matt Hedges and Ryan Hollingshead (to name a few).

This issue is not necessarily the total lack of top-end quality or complete absences of vets. It’s that blooding a fair number of youth players means living with mistakes and that usually caps your upside. Also, while good money was spent on one DP signing, extra reinforcements from TAM and additional DP slots were limited.

Our sheepishness to put our foot down and take a real step to sign a winger over the past couple years plus other (I would argue lazy) things we’ve done with our DP / TAM spots suggests to me that MAYBE there is something to the angle they are going the RBNY / FCD-light route.

[OgtheDim]

But from his list 100% Osorio, Bono, & Bradley would be gone from the FC Dallas model and I would toss Jozy & Poz on that list as well. All making too much money in comparison to their ages. Morrow & Zavaleta possibly but I have no idea what their new contracts are.

DeLeon is 30 - he would be nowhere near a Dallas approach now.

I get we might be HEADING towards a play your yutes along with the Central American/South American imports sort of thing all the time thing, which is FCD - but the idea, that Rollins also threw out today, that we are going to be "play your yutes all the time" doesn't match the current roster.

[Canary10]

Not necessarily true. While completely under the radar, in the past FCD has had a quality DP in Bryan Acosta, a very, very quality TAM in Michael Barrios, and experienced guys like Matt Hedges and Ryan Hollingshead (to name a few).

This issue is not necessarily the total lack of top-end quality or complete absences of vets. It’s that blooding a fair number of youth players means living with mistakes and that usually caps your upside. Also, while good money was spent on one DP signing, extra reinforcements from TAM and additional DP slots were limited.

Our sheepishness to put our foot down and take a real step to sign a winger over the past couple years plus other (I would argue lazy) things we’ve done with our DP / TAM spots suggests to me that MAYBE there is something to the angle they are going the RBNY / FCD-light route.

Let's not forget Mauro Diaz.

[Ultra & Proud]

Not necessarily true. While completely under the radar, in the past FCD has had a quality DP in Bryan Acosta, a very, very quality TAM in Michael Barrios, and experienced guys like Matt Hedges and Ryan Hollingshead (to name a few).

I checked the last salary updates on the MLSPA site and all of them make less than Mavinga. That's the Dallas way. Their highest priced players might be good but they are cheap.

[bought with blo]

DeLeon is 30 - he would be nowhere near a Dallas approach now.

I get we might be HEADING towards a play your yutes along with the Central American/South American imports sort of thing all the time thing, which is FCD - but the idea, that Rollins also threw out today, that we are going to be "play your yutes all the time" doesn't match the current roster.

That is not what he said. He said that using your academy to fill depth slots instead of hiring MLS lifers to do the same job seems to be the new direction. If 90 percent of our depth comes from the academy we will be in a far better space re the cap. If we can do that without dropping quality, we are fine.
Given the usual drop off to second team players, we should be able to get that level out of enough of our kids.

[reggie]

so getting rid of the 200k -300k vets like deleon,mullins morrow,zava,endoh,and replacing them with the 100k acad players.im ok with that because non of these 200k guys should be starters.

[OgtheDim]

That is not what he said. He said that using your academy to fill depth slots instead of hiring MLS lifers to do the same job seems to be the new direction. If 90 percent of our depth comes from the academy we will be in a far better space re the cap. If we can do that without dropping quality, we are fine.
Given the usual drop off to second team players, we should be able to get that level out of enough of our kids.

Ah...ok went back and read it again. And you are right...he was way more nuanced.

[Ultra & Proud]

so getting rid of the 200k -300k vets like deleon,mullins morrow,zava,endoh,and replacing them with the 100k acad players.im ok with that because non of these 200k guys should be starters.

Which is what we should have been doing all along. Having a player like Zavaleta being paid $300K+ to hopefully never be seen near the pitch isn't a good cap scenario.

[OgtheDim]

Which is what we should have been doing all along. Having a player like Zavaleta being paid $300K+ to hopefully never be seen near the pitch isn't a good cap scenario.

Part of the problem is our academy was so bad, there was nobody that could be a B squad player that was worth the risk. TFCII was getting pummeled there for a reason.

[reggie]

so if that is the belief of the club.guys like mullins,deleon,zava endoh morrow are back of the bench guys,mind you we dont have another lb on the roster.lets see if armas has the balls to have a little pain to get some gain down the road.

[Ultra & Proud]

so if that is the belief of the club.guys like mullins,deleon,zava endoh morrow are back of the bench guys,mind you we dont have another lb on the roster.lets see if armas has the balls to have a little pain to get some gain down the road.

Much like I say Osorio is the new guy at Bradley's spot, I still say Schaff should be converted to LB.

[ag futbol]

I checked the last salary updates on the MLSPA site and all of them make less than Mavinga. That's the Dallas way. Their highest priced players might be good but they are cheap.

I stand corrected.

I thought they spent a few million on someone for some reason. Guess I was mistaken

[Ultra & Proud]

I stand corrected.

I thought they spent a few million on someone for some reason. Guess I was mistaken

That's more like their cheapo cousins across the way, Houston. They pop for a few cheap, but decent, DPs and then fill the roster with young trash as their development system sucks.

But I agree with what was said above, we're not trying to be a big seller like Dallas but rather be able to develop and fill in a lot of depth and hopefully some starter spots with homegrowns because it will give us a lot of cap space to maneuvre. I have a feeling our cap situation isn't all that great right now by reading between the lines.

[MikeForbes]

The team arrived in Florida today.

[bought with blo]

Much like I say Osorio is the new guy at Bradley's spot, I still say Schaff should be converted to LB.

Interestingly, while I was listening to extratimes' TFC season preview, David Gass mentioned Schaff as a LB or wingback without it seeming to be a question.

Also they felt that Armas seems to prefer two strikers. That would likely mean a 4-4-2 diamond. All the talk of Bradley being more of a two way player would seem to indicate a move to shuttler if we go that route. A diamond would be good news for all our strikers and mid-fielders , not so much for our wingers. Although I could see us shifting from a diamond to a 4-2-3-1, especially if Jozy and Bradley are getting the hook at 60.

[MightyDM]

Interestingly, while I was listening to extratimes' TFC season preview, David Gass mentioned Schaff as a LB or wingback without it seeming to be a question.

Also they felt that Armas seems to prefer two strikers. That would likely mean a 4-4-2 diamond. All the talk of Bradley being more of a two way player would seem to indicate a move to shuttler if we go that route. A diamond would be good news for all our strikers and mid-fielders , not so much for our wingers. Although I could see us shifting from a diamond to a 4-2-3-1, especially if Jozy and Bradley are getting the hook at 60.

How do you do a high press with a diamond? dont they just put the ball wide? i would have thought something like a 4-1-4-1 more likely with Oso the "1" and MB and Poz flanked by gallardo and shaff or other younger runners

[MikeForbes]

Gremio is the most recent team in the Borré sweepstakes.

https://twitter.com/jeremiaswernek/s...570714114?s=20

[jloome]

But I agree with what was said above, we're not trying to be a big seller like Dallas ...

Nobody is. Neither is Dallas, because any team in this league that gets the offers they did is going to sell. I used the term "youth selling model" and that's probably harsh. It's a "youth selling reality."

It's not an ethos, it's the natural business consequence of producing good youth players in a global market.

Whether it's a stated intent or not, if we get good offers for them it won't be #PlayTheKids, it'll be #SoldtoBayern.

That's what happens when they make use of good playing time. An 18-year-old Ralph Priso isn't going to be in MLS in three years if he can produce at his age, count on that.

EDIT: Also, worth keeping in mind Dallas' youth is being somewhat oversold. Their average age last year was 24.5, ours was 25.6.

[jloome]

How do you do a high press with a diamond? dont they just put the ball wide? i would have thought something like a 4-1-4-1 more likely with Oso the "1" and MB and Poz flanked by gallardo and shaff or other younger runners

Different offensive and defensive zones depending on the opposition's shape, as you want three men close to the ball at all times.