Page 37 of 68 FirstFirst ... 2733343536373839404147 ... LastLast
Results 1,081 to 1,110 of 2036
  1. #1081
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    3,381
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bought with blo View Post
    Our DP left with the euro window closed as he tried to hold us hostage for more money.

    We spoke to a player on our radar about the possibility of coming here.

    Player was willing to come.

    Player had a clause in his contract that allowed him to come.

    Player ended up coming.

    With all of the emotions and hyperbole removed that does not sound like a fiasco. Every thing other than the facts is just noise and negotiation.

    All of this got done in a couple of months, as we are seeing with borre these things often take a lot more time.
    We 'triggered' an inactive clause in the contract and lawyers got involved with a potential dispute. That's a fiasco.

  2. #1082
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    525
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bought with blo View Post
    I thought it was 4.1 million USD being thrown around.

    I believe the $4.1 million being thrown around is the transfer fee

  3. #1083
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    4,828
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    We 'triggered' an inactive clause in the contract and lawyers got involved with a potential dispute. That's a fiasco.
    We triggered his release clause after the Belgian winter window closed. That is fine because usually the deal would be finalized in the following window but Poz and TFC wanted the switch right away. That was the problem and why it ended up costing an extra $2M. Look at it the other way, some people here say the spending days are over and we're back to old TFC. Instead they paid $2M just to get a player 3 months earlier. They easily could have arranged for a summer transfer and saved the bucks but lost face.

  4. #1084
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    573
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    You would think the TFC FO were elected officials spending tax payer money the way dialogue goes on here.

  5. #1085
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    14,939
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think it's possible to see the Pozo story both as a success (we got the player and he is a damn good player) and a sign of incompetence (we did a bunch of rushed, reactionary stuff that wasn’t right, and hurt our team's reputation with other teams in Europe). They are both true.

    The extra $2M isn’t precisely the issue. It’s MLSE's issue, but for us, more of a symptom. The issue was triggering the release clause without ever talking to Genk. Manning has gone to some lengths to whitewash this, he knows it's not good. Did Pozo know he'd have to endure the Genk supporters burning effigies of him in the stands while that showdown went on? That weeks long thing can’t have been great for him. And yeah, we got the player, Genk got their money, Pozo got paid, and the caravan moved on. But it doesn’t quite end that neatly.

    Say we had had interest in Kevin Molino (which we should have, btw). What do you think our reputation is out there based on the last two years overall? Where the only players you went out and signed were Pozo (in a screwed up thing) and this total failure, Gallardo? What in the totality of our management's acquisition story would make TFC look better than Columbus to Molino's agent? (Note: I am discounting the deals that wound up being Gonzalez for Hagglund because Gonzalez came back via allocation. It doesn’t take much acumen to do those deals. But I do think that was good business.)

    Then you have the fights with Jozy, a highly respected player. Add the fact we take every re-signing to the wire.

    That is the real problem. Our rep sucks. Not that we paid $10M instead of $8M for Pozo.
    Last edited by ensco; 02-23-2021 at 08:07 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  6. #1086
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    573
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I think it's possible to see the Pozo story both as a success (we got the player and he is a damn good player) and a sign of incompetence (we did a bunch of rushed, reactionary stuff that wasn’t right, and hurt our team's reputation with other teams in Europe). They are both true.

    The extra $2M isn’t precisely the issue. It’s MLSE's issue, but for us, more of a symptom. The issue was triggering the release clause without ever talking to Genk. Manning has gone to some lengths to whitewash this, he knows it's not good. And yeah, we got the player, Genk got their money, and the caravan moved on.

    But say we had had interest in Kevin Molino (which we should have, btw). What do you think our reputation is out there based on the last two years overall? Where the only players you went out and signed were Pozo (in a screwed up thing) and this total failure, Gallardo? What in the totality of our management's acquisition story would make TFC look better than Columbus to Molino's agent? (Note: I am discounting the deals that wound up being Gonzalez for Hagglund because Gonzalez came back via allocation. It doesn’t take much acumen to do those deals. But I do think that was good business.)

    The fights with Jozy haven’t helped.

    That is the real problem. Our rep sucks. Not that we paid $10M instead of $8M for Pozo.
    I don't buy that reputation is an issue at all. This completely discounts the fact that the team has a consistent track record of taking care of its own - Bradley, Jozy, Oso, Marky, Mavinga etc... None of these guys have walked and are long tenured. This far outweighs one bumpy transfer where for some reason we're framed like a Chelsea-esque big bad bully.

    In the grand scheme I doubt the Pozo transfer made any noise, or enough of it for any team we'd ever do business with to give a shit. Outside of this forum the "fiasco" is non existent. 6 months in an eternity in football.

  7. #1087
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    14,939
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    ^All our success came from moves move by Leiweke, Bez and Vanney.

    You could argue this management’s rep is simply a question mark, but I don’t think so. There are 10+ teams guys would rather play for now. Nothing like it was, when Drew Moor, a huge difference maker, or VV chose to be here.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  8. #1088
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,988
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    The issue was triggering the release clause without ever talking to Genk. Manning has gone to some lengths to whitewash this, he knows it's not good. Did Pozo know he'd have to endure the Genk supporters burning effigies of him in the stands while that showdown went on?
    Do we know for sure this happened? Don’t remember the details from then.

    As for Poz, he knew what leaving a club midseason meant. He was the captain there too. Money talks.

  9. #1089
    RPB Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    221
    Posts
    16,555
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mowe View Post
    Do we know for sure this happened? Don’t remember the details from then.
    .
    Yup, that's pretty much what went down. Genk were blindsided by Poz agent talking directly with us.

    Now, the real feces show is NYRB & Kaku - guy is playing for a side without an ITC - there are ramifications for all that & I suspect FIFA is going to come down hard on the Saudi team - oh who am I kidding they are going to roll over for oil money.

  10. #1090
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    4,828
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    There are 10+ teams guys would rather play for now. Nothing like it was, when Drew Moor, a huge difference maker, or VV chose to be here.
    Of course there are 10+ teams players would rather play for. We're in Canada. It's always been that way. That's why even at our peak we couldn't get prime A list DPs. What we did get were USMNT players who were on the outs and B listers. That's our market.

    People can look fondly on the Bloody Big Deal era but Defoe was a fiasco too and his Mom and him had a lot of negative things to say about Tim L & how he was treated afterwards in UK media. That's more damaging than a out of window transfer. Much like the Genk thing, it amounted to nothing because most teams don't know or care who TFC are and what we do in our little "American" league.

  11. #1091
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    F5
    Posts
    11,856
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    We 'triggered' an inactive clause in the contract and lawyers got involved with a potential dispute. That's a fiasco.
    This is one of those things where the immediate damage won’t necessarily show but longer term, can become an issue.

    Ali Curtis is clearly a details guy as opposed to a deal maker. He picks out Poz cause he’s willing to trigger that release clause at a price that looks good. He targets Borre because it’s a unique situation that doesn’t necessarily require a transfer fee.

    The problem is, he doesn’t think beyond the details to the larger implications of doing business in the long run. Why should Giovinco get a contract extension when he can play out the last year of his deal? The piece of paper we have says he’s under contract for another 12 months! Why should I approach the Belgian club for transfer of Pozuelo? The contract says I can just trigger the release clause!


    When you become this sort of business person your counter-parties either: 1) start to avoid you because they feel your willingness to go outside social norms leads to undesirable business outcomes, which makes it harder for you to do deals. 2) You start to get cut off at the knees yourself because nobody cares when a guy who plays outside social norms suffers indignities. I’m not surprised MLS continues to have players picked off with multiple one-year contract options (like Kaku, supposedly). FIFA has said those are unenforceable but the league continues to use them. It’s their own fault for playing dirty.

  12. #1092
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    4,828
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Now, the real feces show is NYRB & Kaku - guy is playing for a side without an ITC - there are ramifications for all that & I suspect FIFA is going to come down hard on the Saudi team - oh who am I kidding they are going to roll over for oil money.
    But FIFA will have to force them to pay a transfer or something I assume. This is actually the worst thing I've seen happen to a MLS team since I've been watching it. But that Kaku is a dick so it's not surprising.

  13. #1093
    RPB Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Kitchener
    Posts
    17,054
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Yup, that's pretty much what went down. Genk were blindsided by Poz agent talking directly with us.

    Now, the real feces show is NYRB & Kaku - guy is playing for a side without an ITC - there are ramifications for all that & I suspect FIFA is going to come down hard on the Saudi team - oh who am I kidding they are going to roll over for oil money.
    Kaku got a provisional ITC

  14. #1094
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    4,828
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    This is one of those things where the immediate damage won’t necessarily show but longer term, can become an issue.

    Ali Curtis is clearly a details guy as opposed to a deal maker. He picks out Poz cause he’s willing to trigger that release clause at a price that looks good. He targets Borre because it’s a unique situation that doesn’t necessarily require a transfer fee.

    The problem is, he doesn’t think beyond the details to the larger implications of doing business in the long run. Why should Giovinco get a contract extension when he can play out the last year of his deal? The piece of paper we have says he’s under contract for another 12 months! Why should I approach the Belgian club for transfer of Pozuelo? The contract says I can just trigger the release clause!


    When you become this sort of business person your counter-parties either: 1) start to avoid you because they feel your willingness to go outside social norms leads to undesirable business outcomes, which makes it harder for you to do deals. 2) You start to get cut off at the knees yourself because nobody cares when a guy who plays outside social norms suffers indignities. I’m not surprised MLS continues to have players picked off with multiple one-year contract options (like Kaku, supposedly). FIFA has said those are unenforceable but the league continues to use them. It’s their own fault for playing dirty.
    Are you suggesting it's outside of football's norm to wait out an expiring contract to sign that player for no transfer fee? This is a very easy one for River to avoid; resign Borre to a contract he will agree to. Otherwise it's no different that what's going to happen this summer in Europe with a bunch of players.

  15. #1095
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    14,939
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Of course there are 10+ teams players would rather play for. We're in Canada. It's always been that way. That's why even at our peak we couldn't get prime A list DPs. What we did get were USMNT players who were on the outs and B listers. That's our market.

    People can look fondly on the Bloody Big Deal era but Defoe was a fiasco too and his Mom and him had a lot of negative things to say about Tim L & how he was treated afterwards in UK media. That's more damaging than a out of window transfer. Much like the Genk thing, it amounted to nothing because most teams don't know or care who TFC are and what we do in our little "American" league.
    Not defined correctly. I already mentioned Vazquez and Moor. The list of guys who chose TFC would also include Cheyrou and vdW (whatever you think of him, he had options when he came). Even guys like Jason Hernandez in 2017 mattered. Hasler and Endoh had options too.

    That's at least three key guys from the 2017 team that could have easily gone elsewhere, they all chose to come.
    Last edited by ensco; 02-23-2021 at 10:09 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  16. #1096
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    175
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Ali Curtis is clearly a details guy as opposed to a deal maker. He picks out Poz cause he’s willing to trigger that release clause at a price that looks good. He targets Borre because it’s a unique situation that doesn’t necessarily require a transfer fee.
    A lot of TFC's DP deals have been like this (more recently at least). Seba also had an expiring contract and we paid an additional fee for Juve to release him early. Jozy was a unique swap since he was underperforming at Sunderland and Defoe wanted out.

    I don't have a major issue with the Poz deal. It could have been cleaner, but sometimes transfers are messy. However it makes sense that TFC first negotiated with Poz. There's no point approaching a team for a transfer if the player has no interest in joining you at the price you're willing to offer. In TFC's view, once they came to an agreement with Poz since there was a buy-out clause, the transfer would be relatively simple. I'm sure Poz and his agent agreed otherwise their actions would have been different.

  17. #1097
    RPB Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    221
    Posts
    16,555
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    Kaku got a provisional ITC
    Aaaa...good to know. So its all about the negotiations.

  18. #1098
    RPB Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    221
    Posts
    16,555
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Post 2018, I'd argue Gonzalez had choices, as did Piatti (less because of his injuries) - same with Gallardo & Westberg. Laryea was a last gasp chance for him. Mullins was a trade within the league. Rest were homegrown/draft people.

    Have we made any other moves?


    BTW, by far our best move the last couple of years was Westberg.

  19. #1099
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    987
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Eight TFC players named to the Olympic Qualifying team. We will be lucky to field 18 players for the Canadian Championship at this rate.

    https://twitter.com/joshuakloke/stat...639692803?s=20

  20. #1100
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    14,939
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Post 2018, I'd argue Gonzalez had choices, as did Piatti (less because of his injuries) - same with Gallardo & Westberg. Laryea was a last gasp chance for him. Mullins was a trade within the league. Rest were homegrown/draft people.

    Have we made any other moves?


    BTW, by far our best move the last couple of years was Westberg.
    Benezet. Same as Piatti I guess, but he did get that big goal in Atlanta (only to screw the pooch in Seattle).
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  21. #1101
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    F5
    Posts
    11,856
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Are you suggesting it's outside of football's norm to wait out an expiring contract to sign that player for no transfer fee? This is a very easy one for River to avoid; resign Borre to a contract he will agree to. Otherwise it's no different that what's going to happen this summer in Europe with a bunch of players.
    Taken in isolation, this example is not a knock on him at all, just an a point of reference to suggest how he thinks about deals...

    It’s his process I take issue with because I think it could make things more difficult long term.

  22. #1102
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    405
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Taken in isolation, this example is not a knock on him at all, just an a point of reference to suggest how he thinks about deals...

    It’s his process I take issue with because I think it could make things more difficult long term.
    I’m not sure that the typical corporate approach to business really serves anyone in the football world. My personal experience is that it makes every transaction painful for the non-corporate entities, and sometimes it’s not even worth the deal being negotiated.

  23. #1103
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    North York ON
    Posts
    179
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    That's why even at our peak we couldn't get prime A list DPs.
    What on earth were Defoe (however it turned out) and a *current Italian international and squad rotation player at f'n Juventus* Giovinco if not prime A list DPs, are teams out here signing Mbappe or something!? Those are two of the biggest DP signings in MLS history in terms of the prestige/age/status of the player at the time of the signing. Bradley was a pretty big one, too.

  24. #1104
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    4,167
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    I would argue that Leiweke leaving was more impactful than Bez. It was a lot easier signing big name players when Leiweke was signing the cheques then the faceless bean counter who is in charge now.
    He was a bigger presence than the owners and therefore had to go. Wrongly, then, in my view but it was only a matter of time as he was an over promoter. Fun while it lasted.

  25. #1105
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    4,828
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    What on earth were Defoe (however it turned out) and a *current Italian international and squad rotation player at f'n Juventus* Giovinco if not prime A list DPs, are teams out here signing Mbappe or something!? Those are two of the biggest DP signings in MLS history in terms of the prestige/age/status of the player at the time of the signing. Bradley was a pretty big one, too.
    Defoe was older and Giovinco was A list to maybe people who follow Serie A closely. I loosely follow it and I didn't know who he was prior to us signing him.

    Generally A listers are the names that sell tickets to average folks who loosely follow the sport. Defoe was one I guess but he didn't last a season and started speaking out before fall. Rooney, Lampard, Higuian, Zlatan, etc are the big A listers. Worldwide superstar types. I don't see us getting any as a full time player. Cesar was our brush with the A list.

  26. #1106
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    F5
    Posts
    11,856
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by noxx98 View Post
    A lot of TFC's DP deals have been like this (more recently at least). Seba also had an expiring contract and we paid an additional fee for Juve to release him early. Jozy was a unique swap since he was underperforming at Sunderland and Defoe wanted out.

    I don't have a major issue with the Poz deal. It could have been cleaner, but sometimes transfers are messy. However it makes sense that TFC first negotiated with Poz. [There's no point approaching a team for a transfer if the player has no interest in joining you at the price you're willing to offer. In TFC's view, once they came to an agreement with Poz since there was a buy-out clause, the transfer would be relatively simple. I'm sure Poz and his agent agreed otherwise their actions would have been different.
    What matters here is market norms. And what we did with Pozuelo was outside market.

    You can’t really contrast this with Leiweke or his deals. It’s night and day. We sold Giovinco, in his prime years, on leaving Europe and playing for TFC. Despite the past guy taking that deal calling it dogshit within 12 months and everything at the club prior to that being an unmitigated tire fire.

    And Juventus ... was fully on board. We took the time to thank them for letting Giovinco come early and made a big deal of it. If you look at the press around that time, the contrast could not be more stark than our experience with Genk.

    The whole thing with Giovinco was a quantum leap forward. It makes it easier for people like Curtis to do their job today. What Ali is potentially doing, if he continues on in this vein, is the opposite. Having guys play out their contracts or busting out release clauses without notifying the selling club, is not going to help you open doors in the future.

  27. #1107
    RPB Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    665
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    What on earth were Defoe (however it turned out) and a *current Italian international and squad rotation player at f'n Juventus* Giovinco if not prime A list DPs, are teams out here signing Mbappe or something!? Those are two of the biggest DP signings in MLS history in terms of the prestige/age/status of the player at the time of the signing. Bradley was a pretty big one, too.
    Would agree with Gio and César, Defoe (Judas) was an opportunistic hack (paid $$$ and only way to get first team football to get into the England Squad) Never liked him, never will.

  28. #1108
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    95
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    We 'triggered' an inactive clause in the contract and lawyers got involved with a potential dispute. That's a fiasco.
    It wasn't an inactive clause, it was a badly written one. The clause assumed that the only windows that mattered were the top 5 Euro windows and the Arabian windows. Since 99 percent of clubs willing to pay a release clause that size reside there it seemed a reasonable assumption.

    We exist outside those windows and had the money. Genk was upset that they made a poorly written contract. All of the posturing and fiasco was on their end. They had the short end of the stick. We only paid more to avoid this becoming a legal battle. Genk could have tried to drag this out but they would have lost.

    In the end I will bet you Genk is more upset at their lawyers than they are at TFC.

  29. #1109
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    175
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    What matters here is market norms. And what we did with Pozuelo was outside market.
    ...
    The whole thing with Giovinco was a quantum leap forward. It makes it easier for people like Curtis to do their job today. What Ali is potentially doing, if he continues on in this vein, is the opposite. Having guys play out their contracts or busting out release clauses without notifying the selling club, is not going to help you open doors in the future.
    I don't really see how this was outside the market norm. We negotiated with Poz, agreed to a contract, and told Genk we're going to acquire him by exercising the release clause. That's how transfers happen these days, you agree to terms with the player then negotiate with the team.

  30. #1110
    RPB Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Guelph
    Posts
    819
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    BTW, by far our best move the last couple of years was Westberg.
    I mean Pozuelo falls under "last couple of years" doesn't he? But if you mean a smaller signing Laryea has to be up there too. Not to take away from Westberg at all - he might be my favorite goalie we've ever had.
    TFC management changes: "like adding a new fish to your aquarium of failure." - Shakes

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •