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  1. #631
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    The Jozy/RSL thing shouldn’t really bother anyone. If he is up to something like this, TFC knows about it, the league knows about it, everybody can plan accordingly. I very much doubt the plan is for him to play there. Player ownership of the team he plays for is a bad idea.

    I do wonder what the league would think of Jozy proposing to play for TFC while owning a piece of another team, that isn’t a slam dunk. Minority ownership is important, the league may well accept it.

    If he can pull it off, I am happy for him. I love when athletes act like businessmen. It is only fair, because their employers do!

    If you think it's evidence his heart isn’t in his TFC career anymore, I don’t think you understand him. Nobody has been a better teammate here. Nobody.

    I do think it might be best now if we eat some salary and move him elsewhere, as I have suggested elsewhere. But nothing in that suggestion is about his character.

    The only people who don’t really know what is going on is us. That is almost always true: the teams and players know what is going on long before we do.

    ps This isn’t a new issue in sports btw, lots of players have other business interests. It’s why Kevin Durant went to Brooklyn. Serge Savard, when he was GM of the Habs in the 1990s, he was basically run off by the Quebec media because he had built up a real estate company over 30 years that he was supposedly “distracted by”. This was five years after Savard got the job and two years after Savard had won the Cup! The Canadiens still haven’t recovered!
    Last edited by ensco; 02-09-2021 at 07:58 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  2. #632
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    I don't think Jozy's heart has been into TFC for a few years. Pretty obvious when last year he did nothing to get in shape, came in to the first training camp out of shape and didn't even attend the second one and was super out of shape. Then Berhalter tells him he is the default #9 for the USMNT if he can get fit and shows up in January for their camp as 'the fittest' player according to Berhalter. That's all anyone should need to know about Jozy's commitment to TFC.

  3. #633
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I don't think Jozy's heart has been into TFC for a few years. Pretty obvious when last year he did nothing to get in shape, came in to the first training camp out of shape and didn't even attend the second one and was super out of shape. Then Berhalter tells him he is the default #9 for the USMNT if he can get fit and shows up in January for their camp as 'the fittest' player according to Berhalter. That's all anyone should need to know about Jozy's commitment to TFC.
    His “fitness” issues, you mean about his training camp in January 2020 where he still wasn’t healed? The one less than two months after the end of the previous season? Or are we talking about his heart not being in playing in that idiotic bubble in Orlando last summer? (He should have done what Vela did and stayed home. It'll be a long time before MLS does anything more stupid.)

    Yeah. Him calling out management last January, and saying what no one else would say, because the team didn’t treat MB right when MB got hurt in MLS Cup. More not caring. There is a guy who is mailing it in.

    And might as well forget about playing, and delivering, on one leg in 2017 and 2018 CCL. That's just a guy who had lifetime earnings of $20M at that point, more money already than he would ever need, once again just collecting a paycheque.
    Last edited by ensco; 02-09-2021 at 08:36 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  4. #634
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    I am not pointing this at any one poster, but injuries and character are not connected. Being brittle is not about being soft or uncaring.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  5. #635
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I don't think Jozy's heart has been into TFC for a few years. Pretty obvious when last year he did nothing to get in shape, came in to the first training camp out of shape and didn't even attend the second one and was super out of shape. Then Berhalter tells him he is the default #9 for the USMNT if he can get fit and shows up in January for their camp as 'the fittest' player according to Berhalter. That's all anyone should need to know about Jozy's commitment to TFC.
    Okay, so that's last year... with the global shutdown and then the league taking a political stance in regards to BLM; you can say his head may have been elsewhere. But for years?! Man, the amount of disrespect this man gets on these boards is mind-boggling.

  6. #636
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    He was given a specific weight/exercise/diet regimen by the fitness people in 2017. That year he was as good as he can ever be (managed to play in approx 2/3rds of matches) but yes, in 2018 he busted his foot and came back out of shape as in too heavy. Then 2019, came to camp very out of game shape and had to play his way in. Got hurt, came back and got hurt again but that one was a bad tackle. Essentially had from summer until spring 2020 off. Come back again out of shape then request to train at home. Obviously didn't train and came back heavy again. Then got hurt as usual. As for worrying about the pandemic, he didn't seem that worried when he was taking helicopters to dinner with his wife during our stay in Hartford.

    Bottom line, anybody else on our team or any DP in MLS consistently come back after off seasons out of shape? I mean every time. Only time the guy has been fit in years was this year because Berhalter hung the USMNT starting 9 carrot out there. If not for that, he'd be be 20lbs over and we would be hearing management talk about how they have to ease him into the season. This isn't what I expect from our highest paid player and a guy that wore the armband while MB was out injured. Yes, he was fantastic, scored key goals, and was a clutch performer but that guy is gone and we won't be seeing him do anything like that in our jersey ever again whether he is still here or not.

  7. #637
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    If you think it's evidence his heart isn’t in his TFC career anymore, I don’t think you understand him. Nobody has been a better teammate here. Nobody.
    The same guy that (allegedly) shit talked his teammates in practice about their ability only to be retorted at least his teammates care and actually show up in shape?

    Altidore is a celebrity in his nature. When you’re getting the best product it’s all worth the fuss. When that product hasn’t shown up in a while, you start to notice all the quirks.

    I don’t care about the RSL thing but he’s certainly putting a target on his back if he doesn’t perform this year.

    I would opt for the buyout route, personally.

  8. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Kool View Post
    So question to you is.....do you think Jozy is worth it for what he is doing for the team right now for the price TFC are paying? Because that is all I see that people are saying for the most part. I think the last line of your post should also read "LigaMx, Eredivise & MLS teams would all take him but not at the price TFC are paying"
    the bolded part is bang on, the only part I would slightly disagree with is that Eredivise teams would be interested. I don't see that, his record was good there, but he's no resale value. Even the best team in Holland Ajax is a selling team, they buy young, develop and sell for profit. With Jozy at his age, injury concerns and wages, I don't see the upside for any dutch team.

  9. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I would opt for the buyout route, personally.
    From what I understand, the buyout clause is gone as of the 2020 agreement.

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    [So question to you is.....do you think Jozy is worth it for what he is doing for the team right now for the price TFC are paying? Because that is all I see that people are saying for the most part. I think the last line of your post should also read "LigaMx, Eredivise & MLS teams would all take him but not at the price TFC are paying"[/QUOTE]

    I still don't understand why anyone cares what he gets paid. The most important number is 3 - the number of DPs teams are allowed. What each of those DPs get paid over the budget charge, I really don't care. The 3 spots are worth more than the dollar value of the contracts.
    Last edited by Canary10; 02-09-2021 at 11:19 AM.

  11. #641
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    I’m personally floored by the fact that any athletes of colour managed to play to their potential in NA in the last 4 years, especially last year. Being distracted seems like an understatement. Their own president was endorsing hundreds of years of accumulated oppression and hatred. I’m amazed by these athlete’s strength and fortitude in the face of such blatant hate. Not sure I could keep my head in any game if that’s the world I woke up in every day.

  12. #642
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    Ali needs to get them calls and signings going. I thought it was a pandemic/covid thing in regards to not knowing where the Canadian MLS teams would be playing, which could effect negotiations...but Montreal and the Caps have been making signings. Our team was in a wayy better place than those guys, but I don't know now.

  13. #643
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post

    I still don't understand why anyone cares what he gets paid. The most important number is 3 - the number of DPs teams are allowed. What each of those DPs get paid over the budget charge, I really don't care. The 3 spots are worth more than the dollar value of the contracts.
    It matters as in three ways, firstly as an opportunity cost. Management was willing to spend 6m a year on a DP, what return could they have gotten if they opted for someone else for this particular contract?

    My other major concern has also always been that management will look at the dismal ROI on this contract (And don't fool yourselves, there aren't many MLS contracts with a worse ROI, there's some, but not many) and think 'let's not spend this much on our next DP, it's not worth it'. This contract potentially hurts our ability to get another 6m a year player in its place if MLSE think they could get a similar return for far less and look at TFC in general as squandering money (Both are true)

    Lastly, most importantly, it *tanked* our ability to move him. If he was on Bradley money we may have offers to take him, but nobody, and I mean nobody, will pay him 6m a year. He isn't worth that to anyone. He is neither big enough in drawing power or in on field return. So he has all the power now and if he so chooses can just sit on that contract rather than taking a huge pay cut elsewhere, and that impacts your big number 3 up there, because we may be stuck with him as one of the slots and therefore cannot get somebody else in

  14. #644
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    From what I understand, the buyout clause is gone as of the 2020 agreement.
    Wow I had not heard of this, that would be huge. What does this mean, is the full value of a contract included under a team's salary cap until the end of the contract -- minus whatever the new team is paying if the player moves on? For a DP I guess it would be the salary cap charge of $612,500.

  15. #645
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    https://twitter.com/MLSTransfers/sta...67375443562501
    Source: Pierre Barrieu joining TFC staff from LA Galaxy. Previously held positions at Swansea and Le Havre.

  16. #646
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil744 View Post
    https://twitter.com/MLSTransfers/sta...67375443562501
    Source: Pierre Barrieu joining TFC staff from LA Galaxy. Previously held positions at Swansea and Le Havre.
    Did someone from TFC take his job?

  17. #647
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamp Berg View Post
    Did someone from TFC take his job?
    I guess we swapped fitness staff. I'll take that. Ours was total shit.

  18. #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    It matters as in three ways, firstly as an opportunity cost. Management was willing to spend 6m a year on a DP, what return could they have gotten if they opted for someone else for this particular contract?

    My other major concern has also always been that management will look at the dismal ROI on this contract (And don't fool yourselves, there aren't many MLS contracts with a worse ROI, there's some, but not many) and think 'let's not spend this much on our next DP, it's not worth it'. This contract potentially hurts our ability to get another 6m a year player in its place if MLSE think they could get a similar return for far less and look at TFC in general as squandering money (Both are true)

    Lastly, most importantly, it *tanked* our ability to move him. If he was on Bradley money we may have offers to take him, but nobody, and I mean nobody, will pay him 6m a year. He isn't worth that to anyone. He is neither big enough in drawing power or in on field return. So he has all the power now and if he so chooses can just sit on that contract rather than taking a huge pay cut elsewhere, and that impacts your big number 3 up there, because we may be stuck with him as one of the slots and therefore cannot get somebody else in
    Sort of. These are fair points in general, but a bit unfair to focus on this Altidore deal. What about his first deal? Or Seba's? Or Pozo's?

    You can say it was obvious that it wouldn't work out, but I don't see that. I think that first deal of Jozy's had a ton of risk too.

    These points apply to any deal for a high priced player that doesn't work out for the team. This only really matters if you do it over and over again. Which TFC has not.

    It comes with the territory when you spend. Getting it right more than half the time is hard.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Sort of. These are fair points in general, but a bit unfair to focus on this Altidore deal. What about his first deal? Or Seba's? Or Pozo's?

    You can say it was obvious that it wouldn't work out, but I don't see that. I think that first deal of Jozy's had a ton of risk too.

    These points apply to any deal for a high priced player that doesn't work out for the team. This only really matters if you do it over and over again. Which TFC has not.

    It comes with the territory when you spend. Getting it right more than half the time is hard.
    Yep, very fair and it's generally easy with hindsight, though I will say I was equally vocal about it being one of the worst contracts we gave out at the time it was signed, too, but he equally could have turned around and proved me wrong

    Saying that, I wasn't really trying to single out Jozy and you could think it was all worth it and that's fine - i just wanted to show why it does matter how much we pay our DPs in a way that looking at their contracts just as costing a single DP slot doesn't quite capture

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    I’m just wondering why we’ve made absolutely no moves whatsoever. I didn’t expect this at all. I mean I didn’t expect an off season like no other either. But not even one or two? The squad is worse right now than at the end of the season.

  21. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil744 View Post
    https://twitter.com/MLSTransfers/sta...67375443562501
    Source: Pierre Barrieu joining TFC staff from LA Galaxy. Previously held positions at Swansea and Le Havre.
    at the rate they are moving we may have the full coaching staff in place by july

  22. #652
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    I'll give them until the start of March until I start getting anxious. If we are still in this same holding pattern at that point it will be cause for concern.

  23. #653
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    they have had mths to sign there targets, they are probs at there 2nd 3rd 4th choice now,curtis cant seem to close a deal like he settled for piatti last season

  24. #654
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    I'll give them until the start of March until I start getting anxious. If we are still in this same holding pattern at that point it will be cause for concern.
    What if they don't sign a DP until August, but then end up battling for the supporters shield and make a run at the cup? I bet people would still be pissed that they didn't sign anyone in January ;P

  25. #655
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    We are the only team this offseason to not do a resigning, signing or an extension. It is unusual & indicates to me 2 things possibly going on

    a) they are waiting to figure out who the DP's are going be to add the right pieces to mesh with those choices

    and/or

    b) there has been some discussion & processing about Armas' / Curtis' new approach to playing & which players fit that & how they do so - this would also require some discussion at the board level if the need for DP spending has to be justified - changing an identity without a board discussion would be unwise for Manning

    ****

    I am coming to the conclusion that the choice of Armas is reactive and driving a lot more change here to the internal culture. You don't lose the only TFC mangerr all but 3 of these guys (assuming talks are ongoing with Morrow) have known without causing some cultural change, let alone bringing in somebody from the outside with a different approach to training and playstyle. These guys are professionals & will deal with it but there will be adjustments.
    Last edited by OgtheDim; 02-09-2021 at 09:25 PM.

  26. #656
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    How would everyone feel if this year was a rebuild and it was all 'play the kids' to see who can be sold on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by James17930 View Post
    How would everyone feel if this year was a rebuild and it was all 'play the kids' to see who can be sold on?
    I would personally hate it. If the kids are good enough to be sold on, they will force their way into the starting lineup. I have no interest in watching Julian Dunn (for example) play every game this year in the hopes the team can get a 800k transfer fee for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by James17930 View Post
    How would everyone feel if this year was a rebuild and it was all 'play the kids' to see who can be sold on?
    Sounds like a complete waste of a team that was already built into a perennial contender and just needs some maintenance.

  29. #659
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    Quote Originally Posted by James17930 View Post
    How would everyone feel if this year was a rebuild and it was all 'play the kids' to see who can be sold on?
    To do that would be unwise. If it goes tits up it could likely tank the kids development.

    Now, a solid 6 to 8 game stretch of starts each for Priso, Nelson, Rutty etc....that could work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    I would personally hate it. If the kids are good enough to be sold on, they will force their way into the starting lineup. I have no interest in watching Julian Dunn (for example) play every game this year in the hopes the team can get a 800k transfer fee for him.
    Yeah, not a fan either. I want to win trophies, not cheer on ownership in collecting cheques. Nothing against the players of course, who I will be excited to follow and watch play for Canada.

    If we ever sell any useful starter for $800k, I’ll be pissed. Looking at the new cap figures.. it’s a different league now. The price tags for players are starting to get interesting

 

 

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