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  1. #1381
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    Trading Marky is a great way to open up other holes in the lineup. He's a key cog in the midfield, is still in his prime, is a domestic player, on a below TAM level contract and stays healthy for ~30 games a season. There is a ton of value to the team here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noxx98 View Post
    Trading Marky is a great way to open up other holes in the lineup. He's a key cog in the midfield, is still in his prime, is a domestic player, on a below TAM level contract and stays healthy for ~30 games a season. There is a ton of value to the team here.
    He will be 26 in May and while that is still young it's probably a good time to start thinking about moving him before his legs decline. I'm fine with him staying too but if you wanted to maximize the return now would be a decent time to entertain the idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC/Everton View Post
    I dunno man - if you look at the moves Bez made under Manning in 2015/16 with Beita, Moor, Clint, and Johnson and again in 2017/18 with Aketxe, Van Der Weil, Auro, and later Janson.

    So, I am not sure we can blame Manning.

    This is on Ali Curtis.
    yes player wise its on curtis,but the PR stuff is on manning, since he took the duel roll with the argos,the tfc PR has gone down the toilet,bez was a TL hire,bez made his mistakes but he never stands pat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaceyWinger View Post
    He will be 26 in May and while that is still young it's probably a good time to start thinking about moving him before his legs decline. I'm fine with him staying too but if you wanted to maximize the return now would be a decent time to entertain the idea.
    Although I agree maximizing selling him now would maximize his return, I think his maximum value is to stay with the team. TFC should be striving to be at the top of the league, and that means retaining your best players. The players we should be looking to move are ones we don't see on the field - Hagglund (200k GAM, 100k TAM), Chapman (100k GAM) or Fraser (TBD).

  5. #1385
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaceyWinger View Post
    He will be 26 in May and while that is still young it's probably a good time to start thinking about moving him before his legs decline. I'm fine with him staying too but if you wanted to maximize the return now would be a decent time to entertain the idea.
    I don't get this concept for a team and fan base that has its only goal as "Competing and Winning Championships".

    Marky is a starting 11 player. You are saying sell a guaranteed starting 11 player who has experience in championship games / high pressure situations, in order to get some cash and try and fill a gap elsewhere on the roster. Then what? you now have a hole where Marky used to be and are trying to fill that.

    Selling starting 11 players just as they are about to hit their prime in order to make money is what bottom feeder teams do. They sell their budding stars to better teams for cash because they are too shit to compete for the top prizes. (See Vancouver Whitecaps)

  6. #1386
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    i like marky,but i think he is a bit overrated he makes a few eye popping blunders every game,still cant shoot,but he has trade value,i bet you can get anywhere from 500 to 750 in tam from vanney,we dont know what a okello or priso can do in that role,you can get a nice replacement with 600 k tam player,but curtis would never do such a bold move.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    I don't get this concept for a team and fan base that has its only goal as "Competing and Winning Championships".

    Marky is a starting 11 player. ..
    Some people on here don't think Marky is starting 11. (I think he is)

    They also don't follow how trades most often happen in this league. Most assets are traded because they are no longer wanted or needed, either due to somebody coming up, somebody coming in or somebody aging out.


    When somebody says we have a bonafide guaranteed midfield replacement for probably the best midfielder to fit the new manger's system, let me know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Some people on here don't think Marky is starting 11. (I think he is)

    They also don't follow how trades most often happen in this league. Most assets are traded because they are no longer wanted or needed, either due to somebody coming up, somebody coming in or somebody aging out.


    When somebody says we have a bonafide guaranteed midfield replacement for probably the best midfielder to fit the new manger's system, let me know.
    My only point is that we have a crowded midfield and are short in other areas. It's quite possible that something will have to give, and it isn't trading Liam Fraser because no-one is going to come ask us for him. The midfield players that have big trade value are Marky, MB and Oso; I would be very surprised if we traded the latter two. Not advocating for Marky to go; just speculating. On the other hand, there isn't any actual news so there isnt much choice but to speculate about things.

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    Fair enough MiDM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Fair enough MiDM.
    To give you some perspective, I still think they never should have let Seba go....

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    So, if Marky is traded who is taking his spot? Are we just gonna hand Priso the job because he looked good in a few games last year? I mean, look at what happened with Fraser. Twitter was basically ready to declare him as the Canadian Pirlo and now he is an after thought.

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    I wouldn’t hang my hat on Priso. Not because I don’t think he’s good (quite the opposite) but rather if he works out he’s out of here in 18 months tops.

    Bradley is turning 34 this year and while he’s in phenomenal shape, down the road I think it’s fighting the tide to assume a big contribution from a 35-36 year old midfielder. We should be cautious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    My only point is that we have a crowded midfield and are short in other areas. It's quite possible that something will have to give, and it isn't trading Liam Fraser because no-one is going to come ask us for him.
    Someone gave us $100k for Jay Chapman last year. There is totally a market for Fraser.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I wouldn’t hang my hat on Priso. Not because I don’t think he’s good (quite the opposite) but rather if he works out he’s out of here in 18 months tops.

    Bradley is turning 34 this year and while he’s in phenomenal shape, down the road I think it’s fighting the tide to assume a big contribution from a 35-36 year old midfielder. We should be cautious.
    i dont understand the logic.if priso okello outplay marky ...that is great for the club.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    i dont understand the logic.if priso okello outplay marky ...that is great for the club.
    It is short term most likely and then you're left with nothing and have to find a replacement. Hanging on to Delgado is that replacement. Besides, we'd get like $500k allocation for him and do nothing with it so why bother?

  16. #1396
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    you dont move him for the sake of moving him,you would or should have another signing on the back burner,but then again we are talking about curtis who doesnt seem to own a stove.

  17. #1397
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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    i like marky,but i think he is a bit overrated he makes a few eye popping blunders every game,still cant shoot,but he has trade value,i bet you can get anywhere from 500 to 750 in tam from vanney,we dont know what a okello or priso can do in that role,you can get a nice replacement with 600 k tam player,but curtis would never do such a bold move.
    I dunno man, Delgado is also one of the few players willing to try a one-touch pass and keep the ball moving. Sure one-touch passing at the MLS-level is risky, but it's a high risk-reward play, and Marky has opened up some beautiful goals & scoring chances with the one-touch passing that went right. Plus he has among the most interceptions on the team. Like his one-touch interception AND pass which actually started the beautiful sequence that led to Jozy's 2017 cup-winning goal. So many other TFC players are deathly afraid of making mistakes, mostly receive and hold the ball before considering the next pass, and turn the game into molasses. Maybe they lose the ball less than Marky, but on average they also get much less done. Check many of the game stats, Delgado is often among the top in those. I would say he's often under-rated, he gets so much stick from the stands.

    I think Armas will place a high value both on keeping the ball moving quickly, and interceptions as part of the high press, so would be silly to lose Delgado. I would say we need one or two more players like him, maybe someone with more DM destroyer muscle, even if it's a young guy that starts as a backup and fights his way onto the pitch. We never adequately replaced Will Johnson, Hasler did an OK job there but he's gone as well.

    Yeah Delgado can't shoot most of the time, but neither can hardly anyone on the team. Maybe Chris has some good sports psychologist connections? TFC have a very low number of attempts and goals off of long shots. Almost everyone on the team is snake bit on that. Even Pozuelo chips almost every shot on goal. Why do I see other MLS teams be able to put their laces through the ball much more often? Even if you don't score, it keeps the opposing defence and goalkeeper guessing.

    I wouldn't be worried about losing Fraser, not sure how much trade value he has. But maybe Armas also gets more out of a young guy like that.
    Last edited by Auzzy; 03-03-2021 at 10:16 PM.

  18. #1398
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    Quote Originally Posted by noxx98 View Post
    Someone gave us $100k for Jay Chapman last year. There is totally a market for Fraser.
    Fair. But they didn’t give us a starting caliber mobile centre back, or a good back up LB.

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    Just because Tim Bez fleeced other MLS teams when he was TFC GM before, don't expect other MLS teams to be continually be dumb and trade for our cast offs and give us a lot of GAM/TAM and/or starter calibre players.

    You gotta give something that other team values to get something you want in return. Easy to say things like trade Bradley or Jozy or whoever for a starting CB or LB or whatnot. Reality is far harder than that.

    "
    Hell is always loose here. It can't break loose again
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    -Fort York Redcoat, on the state of TFC

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    Quote Originally Posted by noxx98 View Post
    Someone gave us $100k for Jay Chapman last year. There is totally a market for Fraser.
    Jay Chapman had at least 10 excellent games as a starter on a MLS championship team.

    That's 10 more than Fraser. A single good CMNT game is all he's got, and that ain’t the same thing at all.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Jay Chapman had at least 10 excellent games as a starter on a MLS championship team.

    That's 10 more than Fraser. A single good CMNT game is all he's got, and that ain’t the same thing at all.
    I thought he (Fraser) had some good games for TFC. But I would caveat, they were not complete games. It was sublime distribution and work with the ball but the odd error that gave you room for pause. Even with Canada, I thought he did well but there were still some moments where you’d think “he’s got to clean that up... but if he does, we’ve got a real player”

    The sad reality is.. CM is a half step off CB and GK in terms of tolerance for errors. A few bad moments kills an entire game of hard work. Hence why Doniel Henry plays in Korea and not the premiership.

    I find it hard to understand what the deal is with Chapman. We went to Seattle missing Giovonco and he basically ran the game and looked like the best player on the pitch. His stats looked legit in limited minutes. But he could never earn more time from Vanney and when he did finally get some run outs... his form had faded. Felt like sometimes he lacked that extra bit of edge.

    Whether that was a function of a coach who liked his vets too much and gave rookies the hook to easily or just something about player’s work ethic we’ll never know.
    Last edited by ag futbol; 03-03-2021 at 08:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Jay Chapman had at least 10 excellent games as a starter on a MLS championship team.

    That's 10 more than Fraser. A single good CMNT game is all he's got, and that ain’t the same thing at all.
    That was a really good game though....

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Jay Chapman had at least 10 excellent games as a starter on a MLS championship team.

    That's 10 more than Fraser. A single good CMNT game is all he's got, and that ain’t the same thing at all.
    In the 3 years prior to his trade Chapman played 1,889 minutes in MLS. Over the last three years Fraser has played 1,861 minutes in MLS. They've basically played the same amount of minutes, plus Fraser is significantly younger. I don't really think you can say Chapman is materially better than Fraser either. Fraser has done well in his time on the field, just in a very different role. Chapman also barely played this past season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Whether that was a function of a coach who liked his vets too much and gave rookies the hook to easily or just something about player’s work ethic we’ll never know.
    Possibly we will figure this out with Armas and the likes of Gallardo, Schaff, & maybe Fraser.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    I don't get this concept for a team and fan base that has its only goal as "Competing and Winning Championships".

    Marky is a starting 11 player. You are saying sell a guaranteed starting 11 player who has experience in championship games / high pressure situations, in order to get some cash and try and fill a gap elsewhere on the roster. Then what? you now have a hole where Marky used to be and are trying to fill that.

    Selling starting 11 players just as they are about to hit their prime in order to make money is what bottom feeder teams do. They sell their budding stars to better teams for cash because they are too shit to compete for the top prizes. (See Vancouver Whitecaps)
    I did not say anywhere to throw Marky out for nothing. Winning team manage assets, and loads of winning teams worldwide sell valuable players to improve their team.

    I said I was fine with him staying since he's legitimately a good player. I also said since he's turning 26 this season and it may be the time where his value on the market may be highest. If it's high enough that you can bring in a good CB (for example) don't you at least consider it knowing you currently have Bradley, Osorio, Fraser, Priso, Okello all in the mix?

    People keep saying Priso will leave in 18 months - that is hilarious wish casting for a guy nobody knew about 12 months ago and if he's good enough to be gone in a year in a half why in the world do we have Marco Delgado blocking him in the starting 11? My point is that we have a surplus on the roster and unless I'm crazy he's the #3 holding midfielder on this team. Unlike Bradley he has value so this might be the best time to get max value back either in trade or selling him on.

    Again - clearly he serves a purpose on this team and for my money I sit Bradley in favor of Marky-Oso-Pozuelo as my midfield, but I doubt TFC management shares that opinion.

  26. #1406
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaceyWinger View Post
    People keep saying Priso will leave in 18 months - that is hilarious wish casting for a guy nobody knew about 12 months ago and if he's good enough to be gone in a year in a half why in the world do we have Marco Delgado blocking him in the starting 11?.
    Looks like this is a comment for me, lol.

    I’ll say this: just cause you’re the better prospect does not mean your the better choice to start week in and week out. If the form that we saw last season continues, the story will write itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Looks like this is a comment for me, lol.

    I’ll say this: just cause you’re the better prospect does not mean your the better choice to start week in and week out. If the form that we saw last season continues, the story will write itself.
    Here's my guess for how this preseason is going to shake out from here:

    -- We won't sign a DP until June, likely Borre. If not him, I doubt there's a second option waiting in the wings, the way these things play out, so it'll take a while to sign someone... so the June break, again.

    -- We won't sign anyone else, we'll just play the kids, and they'll see if they can get Romeo back early from his loan (they usually have recall options) to be the fourth/fifth CB along with Yaro.

    -- They're going al-in on youth, and we have so many prospects right now that they're going to have a trial-by-fire season, see who's worth what. Given that all of our starting roles have at least one veteran who can fill them, they literally don't need to sign anyone; as soon as someone goes down injured (say, Morrow, if he's starting regularly) they'll either throw Auro in (two-footed) opposite Laryea, or give Yaro a try as he can play wide, or convert Endoh, as he's really more a shuttling, hustling defensive winger than a threat. Same at CB with Romeo/Dunn, with possibly Bradley there in a pinch, or Yaro.

    -- Instead of signing a wide player they'll give Shaffelburg and Nelson major minutes, to see if one of them will step up as a potential week-in-out.

    I dunno, maybe that sounds cynical but it'd be interesting at the least. I just get the sense they're starting to stockpile potential young assets. Maybe the reason Vanney didn't re-sign was they told him there won't really be a transfer budget for a while.

  28. #1408
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    i have no prob with that...but the FO seem to be selling us a load of goods,like we are a big club,we want trophies this season,so much secrecy with this management.its a real turnoff,no vibe at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    i have no prob with that...but the FO seem to be selling us a load of goods,like we are a big club,we want trophies this season,so much secrecy with this management.its a real turnoff,no vibe at all.
    To be fair nowadays they don't really say much...

    of anything...

    ever.

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    dum de dum.....

 

 

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