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  1. #1651
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Why are you sure? We've heard exactly one rumor, that a Turkish club was interested.

    But we're in the middle of a pandemic, transfers are down everywhere, and he has 16 games at the MLS level.

    If he's healthy and starts the season, and continues scoring? Then he'll go, if the interest is heavy
    Teams don't just sign youth stars on a whim, they track them for a while first. Given that he's got less than one full season with the top club and has no prior consistent scoring record, they won't just drop millions on the guy.

    Based on the rumors, the player we're most likely to lose is Jakheel, and that's mostly because he's so young and already talented that they'll get the most professionally out of him, because as with Davies at Bayern, his training will improve markedly.

    Anyone who thinks renewing our front office isn't about their youth record isn't paying attention to history.

    These guys are buying NOBODY if they can avoid it. Ask RSL fans what Bill was like there. The consensus is that they won because of Kreis and Petke, and the front office more or less made it harder on them by never supplying a competitive roster.

    Curtis at least has some success by people under him in youth development. But there, the RB organization backed Jesse Marsch in their falling out, which is why Curtis left. So it would seem they valued the coach, who they moved less than a year later to Austria, than Curtis.... even though they likely already knew Marsch was moving up.

    Doesn't say much positive about Curtis that he was seen as less valuable than a guy they likely already knew was leaving.
    there were some rumours from the US media that english clubs were interested at the deadline like morris and dike.the fact that clubs are offering 10 mil for Dike ,who is one year out of college,im sure there were offers for Ayo.

  2. #1652
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Poz kinda shows this to be untrue, as did GvDW & others bought with TAM. We have been at or near the cap top for all of Manning's tenure. BTW, RSL has always had ownership that was budget conscious.

    Youth being brought forward had to happen eventually - every team in the world does this. Vanney couldn't start to do it until last year because the academy was CRAP before he got here & academy kids don't get to the 1st team level overnight. He seriously talked about it last year as a thing he could finally get done.


    Can't comment on Curtis over Marsch but its obvious Marsch won that internal fight. We'll see on Curtis long term

    But the idea that this team is going youth only & won't spend $? That holds no water.
    I generally agree. But further to The OP’s point, doesn’t what we’ve seen post-signing Poz suggest a team that’s either in cap hell or has clearly re-examined its budget?

  3. #1653
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I generally agree. But further to The OP’s point, doesn’t what we’ve seen post-signing Poz suggest a team that’s either in cap hell or has clearly re-examined its budget?
    I would say cap hell but we dumped a decent portion of salary last year assuming Morrow & Zavaleta didn't get raises and we've added a lot of homegrowns. As for re-examining the budget, we're reportedly offering $15M for Borre so I don't think that's it either.

    More likely it's a combo of us not even getting to Florida yet so it makes doing physical exams and things a pain, the new later closing of our first window which makes waiting for the second more desireable, and lastly a new coach with new ideas who might want to see what he has first before changing anything. Another possibility is that Curtis is so glacial in terms of doing anything that a player he targeted last December might roll into being contacted sometime this summer.

  4. #1654
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    But the idea that this team is going youth only & won't spend $? That holds no water.
    Pozuelo replaced an existing salary, Seba, at a lower cap hit. GVDW came in at a low TAM deal and stunk the joint out.

    Either way, that doesn't come close to "holds no water."

    We're the least active transfer team in the league by a country mile, and have been for three consecutive seasons.

    And their track record, Manning and Curtis, is their track record. They didn't spend at RSL or NY, they've come in here after years of record spending and we have a cue of youth players.

    But I'll happily be proven wrong when we sign a DP before the start of the season, as they've repeatedly indicated is the case.

  5. #1655
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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    the fact that clubs are offering 10 mil for Dike ,who is one year out of college,im sure there were offers for Ayo.
    First, we have no clue if that's true or just a tout rumor to up his price. Barnsley, for example, continues to claim in the press that they have an agreed feed lower than that.

    Second, he's just scored five goals in nine games at a level right below the Prem for a traditionally mediocre club. And he's 20, 6'2 and built like an Ox. And he's a U.S. international.

    All of that adds up to much more likely to go for big money than Ayo right now. I'm not denying they might get offers, but equally, they might have a bunch of euro clubs thinking they can lowball an relatively unproven player.

    Also, the English rumors were from this end. They don't show up in the English press anywhere, which seems highly dubious.

  6. #1656
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    I was reading somewhere that the Brazil window closes this week. Is that correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    I was reading somewhere that the Brazil window closes this week. Is that correct?
    I may be wrong, but I believe it closes in May. It was changed due to the pandemic.

    In any case, yesterday Palmeiras basically confirmed that they will not be getting Borré. The team will focus on cheaper options, Borré is too expensive right now for any brazilian club.

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    Another thing to consider, River only has eight games left to play. With every game they tick off the schedule they get closer and closer to not needing Borre anymore, and losing him for free. If we are the only team offering any money we become more and more appealing. Their season is over by may 9th.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bought with blo View Post
    Another thing to consider, River only has eight games left to play. With every game they tick off the schedule they get closer and closer to not needing Borre anymore, and losing him for free. If we are the only team offering any money we become more and more appealing. Their season is over by may 9th.
    I still think Borré leaves on a free to the highest bidder. River can't unilaterally sell him so Borré is the one to convince to come. So if you're TFC are you giving River a fee (which has to be split with Atleti) or are you just prepping to add more to Borré's offer? Part of the attraction on a player like Borré is you don't have to spend $10M to pry him away from his club and from the sounds of it there aren't teams lined up to pay what is rumoured we have offered him. No need to bid against ourselves just to get him here a couple weeks early. Our window is open for a long time. His season ends in 6 weeks or so, and I still think the most likely outcome (if he comes to Toronto), it will be on a free once the Argentine season ends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaceyWinger View Post
    I still think Borré leaves on a free to the highest bidder. River can't unilaterally sell him so Borré is the one to convince to come. So if you're TFC are you giving River a fee (which has to be split with Atleti) or are you just prepping to add more to Borré's offer? Part of the attraction on a player like Borré is you don't have to spend $10M to pry him away from his club and from the sounds of it there aren't teams lined up to pay what is rumoured we have offered him. No need to bid against ourselves just to get him here a couple weeks early. Our window is open for a long time. His season ends in 6 weeks or so, and I still think the most likely outcome (if he comes to Toronto), it will be on a free once the Argentine season ends.

    Now THIS seems likely.

    I don't think Curtis is an idiot, there's no indication of that.

    But if they've been told to focus on developing and selling youth rather than transfer spending, he could still well be able to convince the board or Mitchell on high-value free transfers.

    If they get him on three years or more, they might be selling him for a big fee after two, especially given his stated interested in retrying Europe.

    Edit: And if that IS the approach, who's to say it's wrong? It's new but I'm not suggesting it won't be a better approach in the long run, more financially viable yet still potentially competitive.

    There are plenty of times during the last five years when we all wondered if the overall salary hit couldn't have been more effectively divided than to give all of it to three people. It did get us a title, but it wasn't sustainable.

  11. #1661
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    The phrase describing the DP used this week in the Supporter's discussion with management was longer term stability. I think they want somebody to build around if Poz goes & after Altidore (who is off the DP after 2022).

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    Borré with 3 goals tonight so far for River.

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    Anyone know if we have any pre-season games scheduled before the CCL?

    MLS site still has us and Vancouver as TBA.

    Why do they not realize a communications department is there to sell the club through the media?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    Borré with 3 goals tonight so far for River.
    Celta Vigo were mentioned today about wanting to put in an offer, that will be tough. But it still looks like they want to wait until the contract expires.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    Borré with 3 goals tonight so far for River.
    4 now...you can kiss borre goodbye now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Anyone know if we have any pre-season games scheduled before the CCL?

    MLS site still has us and Vancouver as TBA.

    Why do they not realize a communications department is there to sell the club through the media?
    cbus in a behind closed door game, i think a week before the leon game

  17. #1667
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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    cbus in a behind closed door game, i think a week before the leon game
    Cheers.

    Maybe this silence is all meta. Maybe they're going to come out with something so different they want a build-up narrative of us all wondering what the fuck is going on.

    I somewhat doubt it, but it's an idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    4 now...you can kiss borre goodbye now.
    In what way?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FootBallAZ View Post
    In what way?
    im assuming is value has gone up with that 4 goal game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Cheers.

    Maybe this silence is all meta. Maybe they're going to come out with something so different they want a build-up narrative of us all wondering what the fuck is going on.

    I somewhat doubt it, but it's an idea.
    i have no clue what the club is trying to prove with this radio silence.they are sure turning off alot of fans

  21. #1671
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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    im assuming is value has gone up with that 4 goal game.

    A longer story from today, translated. Palmeiras only wanted him on a free, tried to negotiate directly with the player rather than through his agent. Yikes.





    In addition to the money: business between Palmeiras and Borré had a trip with agents






    Borré during the game between Palmeiras and River Plate, in the Libertadores semifinal[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.5)]Image: Staff Images / Conmebol[/COLOR]








    Thiago Ferri
    From UOL, in São Paulo
    [COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.5)]03/20/2021 04h00[/COLOR]

    The Palmeiras decided to end talks with Santos Borré once you understand that it would be risky financially afford a formalized proposal just over a month. This, however, was not the only reason to suspend a negotiation that was also undermined by the wear and tear between the parties.
    The offer was for a four-year contract, with US $ 4.8 million (about R $ 26.3 million) in gloves plus US $ 2 million (R $ 11 million) in salaries per year, free of taxes.

    The numbers were very close to what Borré wanted, but the player did not accept signed a pre-contract - he has a relationship with River Plate (ARG) until June 30 and is already free to settle with another team. The idea was to settle with the 25-year-old athlete and join him in the second half.
    After having direct conversations with the center forward, the club sent businessman André Cury to Argentina to broker the deal, a strategy that is not uncommon in the ball market . According to people involved in the negotiations, Borré had signaled that he could centralize the dialogue, but, on the other hand, the player's agents were uncomfortable because they had not participated in the first meeting. The idea of ​​the company that manages the athlete's career was to deal directly with the club.

    Without signing with Palmeiras, the striker received an offer from Toronto FC, from Canada , but playing in the Major League Soccer ( MLS ) did not seduce him. São Paulo also showed interest, and immediately did not consider it possible to approach the amounts that Verdão was willing to pay.
    Ten days ago, Cury returned to Buenos Aires and had two more meetings : the first again with Borré and the other, finally, with the businessmen. As with the other time, the settlement was not enshrined.
    With a contract valid until June with River, the center forward has the hope of receiving an offer from Europe, but nothing until then has approached the values ​​of Palmeiras. Coach Abel Ferreira, who had telephone conversations with the athlete, warned UOL Esporte last Wednesday (17) : he would not wait long .
    In this scenario with Borré's indecision, Palmeiras began to assess the risks of maintaining the values ​​offered with the worsening of the new coronavirus pandemic . The Paulista Championship was suspended , and the forecast of having an audience in the stadiums in the second semester proves difficult to happen.
    As he did not have at any time the athlete's definitive answer that he accepted the proposal and would sign a pre-contract, Palmeiras understood that it was better to withdraw the proposal amid the uncertainties in Brazilian football and seek another option in the market of the ball that did not have such a robust financial package.
    Even before Borré officially gave up, Verdão was already looking for names in the market . Sebástian Ferreira, from Libertad (PAR), Tiquinho Soares, Taty Castellanos, from New York City (USA) and Juan Dinenno, from Pumas (MEX), have already been discussed at the club. However, there is still no negotiation underway. Abel Ferreira believes it is necessary to look for a center forward to give another option besides Luiz Adriano.

    REPORT ERROR

    Dracena explains Borré's withdrawal: "We are not swimming in money"

    03/19/2021 19h28

  22. #1672
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    ^Nice find

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    There is always the possibility of recency bias and some juice from Europe and if an offer comes in from a decent Euro side that comes near what we offer he would go for that offer but in the current economic climate, there are few clubs better positioned to win a bid than TFC. After Pozuelo I highly doubt Curtis is doing anything outside the regular channels like what aparently happened with Palmieras. Our money isn't contingent on fans in the stands. Our covid situation isn't great but we don't have a lunatic, wanabe dictator throwing gas on the fire either. TFC has the benefit in world football of being a professionally run, stable organization backed by an immovable financial object which owns world-known teams in the Raptors and Leafs. First class ammenities, first class City. Time will tell if it's enough to land Borré but Palmieras is one of the Brazillian sides rumoured to actually have cash, so this report above indicates to me that Brazil is no longer a viable threat to our bid.

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    As reported, this isn’t anything like what happened with TFC and Genk. This is exactly the Giovinco scenario with TFC and Juve.

    Palmeiras/Borre isn’t triggering a release clause, it's negotiating with a player whose contract is expiring.

    The agent thing is a sideshow, but Cury (palmeiras' rep according to this story) is a star in this world (ran Barca South American operations for decade, as a for instance he landed Neymar there) and has been labelled Borre's agent in other stories.

    It is a world of bribes, underhanded dealing, and lifelong relationships with elements that nobody can see. River and Boca are different btw. That is no ordinary shop window Borre is sitting in, showcasing his skills. The River perspective would be that to play there, especially in the 9 or 10 there, is a special opportunity, a kind of gift, and involves different considerations, like it or not. There is an element of intimidation, unspoken (search “Argentine soccer kidnapping”) if Borre is seen to disrespect River, and having the star player leave to go to “Toronto” and leaving River with nothing, feels to me like disrespecting River.

    The ONLY way I could see this is if we pay by far the most, up front, including a fee to River, AND the player can opt out anytime he feels like it. I don’t see how TFC could do that.

    Even before you get to the questions around MLS and TFC for this player. There should be decent European interest for this player. If the pandemic has hurt that market, he can resign for a year at River and try again next year. It sure does not sound like he wants to be here, and I don’t blame him: if you are over 21, MLS is still the same as the Middle East or China, nobody goes the other way. There are tons of late bloomers in Europe, but you have to be playing in Europe to have a chance. (Anybody who says Almiron, my answer is, that's a one off, and not much of a harbinger of success - ask Newcastle, Barco, Martinez, what they think of the odds of the MLS to Europe pipeline working. MLS really needed Almiron to work out over there...)

    As for us, it isn’t a need: we have Ayo, Achara and are paying $4M or 6M or whatever to Jozy...

    This thing makes zero sense. If we actually are involved, then we are out over our skis. TFC successfully concluding something like this seems incredibly far fetched to me. It's far more likely that we are being used as a stalking horse, and Manning/Curtis are allowing it because they have nothing else for us to talk about.
    Last edited by ensco; 03-21-2021 at 09:54 AM.
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  25. #1675
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    Achara is out for a few more months due to recovery from injury.

    Ayo hasn’t been able to train for a few months due to a medical issue. They’re hoping he can start training again soon. He won’t be close to 100% yet, he only just started running. Also just an example that things can go wrong, especially with our guys, and we need more help in attack.

    Fingers crossed that Jozy can play for a while this season. Unfortunately this forced break from training due to COVID in the team won’t help his game fitness.

    I don’t think this article was mentioned here? https://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/mls...reak-1.5957872

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    As reported, this isn’t anything like what happened with TFC and Genk. This is exactly the Giovinco scenario with TFC and Juve.

    Palmeiras/Borre isn’t triggering a release clause, it's negotiating with a player whose contract is expiring.

    The agent thing is a sideshow, but Cury (palmeiras' rep according to this story) is a star in this world (ran Barca South American operations for decade, as a for instance he landed Neymar there) and has been labelled Borre's agent in other stories.

    It is a world of bribes, underhanded dealing, and lifelong relationships with elements that nobody can see. River and Boca are different btw. That is no ordinary shop window Borre is sitting in, showcasing his skills. The River perspective would be that to play there, especially in the 9 or 10 there, is a special opportunity, a kind of gift, and involves different considerations, like it or not. There is an element of intimidation, unspoken (search “Argentine soccer kidnapping”) if Borre is seen to disrespect River, and having the star player leave to go to “Toronto” and leaving River with nothing, feels to me like disrespecting River.

    The ONLY way I could see this is if we pay by far the most, up front, including a fee to River, AND the player can opt out anytime he feels like it. I don’t see how TFC could do that.

    Even before you get to the questions around MLS and TFC for this player. There should be decent European interest for this player. If the pandemic has hurt that market, he can resign for a year at River and try again next year. It sure does not sound like he wants to be here, and I don’t blame him: if you are over 21, MLS is still the same as the Middle East or China, nobody goes the other way. There are tons of late bloomers in Europe, but you have to be playing in Europe to have a chance. (Anybody who says Almiron, my answer is, that's a one off, and not much of a harbinger of success - ask Newcastle, Barco, Martinez, what they think of the odds of the MLS to Europe pipeline working. MLS really needed Almiron to work out over there...)

    As for us, it isn’t a need: we have Ayo, Achara and are paying $4M or 6M or whatever to Jozy...

    This thing makes zero sense. If we actually are involved, then we are out over our skis. TFC successfully concluding something like this seems incredibly far fetched to me. It's far more likely that we are being used as a stalking horse, and Manning/Curtis are allowing it because they have nothing else for us to talk about.
    I do think you misreading the current trends. With Juve buying MLS academy products, with Bayern having a rising USL talent pointed out to them by FC Dallas coming over for a showcase prior to purchase. With the likes of Brenner coming here. We are in a place where MLS is legitimately becoming a bounce league. This is only going to become more commonplace. As we sign more young south american players, we will definitely be having some of our teams seen as those bounce teams, teams that will showcase you and put you in a shop window for Europe.

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    ^No argument re younger players. Brenner is an interesting extension into 22-23 year olds (which is what he will be when his next move should happen)

    The question is whether MLS can get a talented 25 year old a quality look at say, 27 or 28 years old, on the back of big numbers in this league, with a bigger club in Europe. Not much evidence of that.

    On the list of questions I have about this supposed move, this is actually about fourth.
    Last edited by ensco; 03-21-2021 at 12:44 PM.
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    Europe only want to buy in young talent so they can mould them. It is a rarity that any player over 22 is going from straight the Americas to Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest Ripoff View Post
    Europe only want to buy in young talent so they can mould them. It is a rarity that any player over 22 is going from straight the Americas to Europe.
    This is it (sort of). Any enthusiasm for a player from SA in his mid 20’s will be tempered by his age and the fact he didn’t catch on last time around.

    There is a reasonably large list of guys who meet this profile. They score buckets in SA and many other places but the best 4-5 leagues in Europe are another level beyond them. So providing someone like this with a contract at the same level TFC is reportedly offering for a European club is risky business.

    He’s got to decide whether he wants to get paid in MLS or pursue footballing at the highest level noting he could be leaving quite a bit of cash on the table. South America in this case isn’t going to be an answer. It’s not going to prove anything more to a European scout and it’s not going to get him paid either. Foreign exchange rates are through the floor, getting paid in USD looks pretty good in comparison.
    Last edited by ag futbol; 03-21-2021 at 01:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Anyone know if we have any pre-season games scheduled before the CCL?

    MLS site still has us and Vancouver as TBA.

    Why do they not realize a communications department is there to sell the club through the media?
    CF Montreal & San Jose Earthquakes are also listed as TBA atm.

 

 

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