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  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    Ali Curtis is finally starting to impose himself in TFC after Vanney was let go of. We're now going to move away from the win-now-at-all-costs approach and start building for the future. Expect more young/academy players to be integrated into the team as well as the club looking for younger replacements for Jozy, Bradley, and Omar if they aren't in the club. Armas is coming in merely as a head coach and not as a manager, so the majority of the squad building will be on Curtis and Manning.

    In contrast, Bezbatchenko, whilst he's great, is more of a win-now guy, and we've yet to see him rebuild a team once they've gone as far as they could. Maybe if he spends more time with Columbus, we could see that. Curtis, though, has come into rebuild TFC's squad and help us move on from our current spine. Let's see how he good he really is at finding talented young players now that he doesn't have Red Bull's network to rely on.
    I completely agree with your viewpoint, but I donít think it applies to TFC. Toronto always touts itself as a Ďbig teamí (especially Curtis) that can always compete for trophies. In order to do that there canít be rebuild years. The core was already built when Curtis came, he just needed to fill holes as they appeared. Sometimes the holes were small, some big, but his job is to fill them. He just didnít, to the point where the players and Vanney were publicly talking about it. Luckily the core was so good that itís kind of held up since 2017. Imagine where we be if Curtis had filled the holes that appeared, the dynasty talk could have become a reality, at least for a few years.
    As far as the academy goes, if resources are so good at TFC, why canít they do both? Itís not like itís an impossible mission. Maybe Curtis would have been a great academy director, but he does not appear to know how to run a Ďbig clubí. Makes it pretty hard to have faith in any of his choices.
    And before someone mentions Pozuelo as proof positive of Curtis, it was mentioned several times when Pozuelo came that he was on TFCís radar for a long time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I don't think that will happen but if I were to guess the worst case scenario, it would be that they'd graduate more players from the academy, maybe sign a CPL player or two, and recall Dunn & Romero from loan then use the young guys a lot. Trial by fire style and it'd be U-G-L-Y.
    I will say this. Curtis and Armas, from my observation, seem to better understand how to bring through young players than Vanney and company did.

    Our mentality previously was short leash or get the hook. Win now, this season, this next game, right away. And there would be no major adjustments on-field to ease the new guy in. Do your job or back to the bench.

    RBNY would make it easier. But as we all know, thatís sometimes at the price of points or even higher level success. If these guys improve enough, they want to move to Europe, not win an MLS Cup. And you can minimize a bit but not all the mistakes young players will make.

    Not sure if it suits our market TBH. Admit this is a bit of a 180 for me on youth football but itís really hard to win and develop at the same time.

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    Not sure if I missed this somewhere, but Marky posted an Instagram story this morning at a California surgery center with the caption "Procedure". I know he was injured at the end of last season but I had not heard anything about him potentially needing surgery. Marky is far from the perfect player, but he was a critical part of last season's midfield.

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    ĎNot sure if it suits our market TBH. Admit this is a bit of a 180 for me on youth football but itís really hard to win and develop at the same time.í

    ^Couldnít agree more.^
    Toronto is a win-now city, always has been, in every sport. Not winning makes teams irrelevant here. Seems like more loans, like the big European clubs, is probably the best option for most of the young players looking to progress before they meet Ďtrial by fireí.

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    Curtis on the team's DP search: Talks continue with some of their targets. "We've been very aggressive, making sure we find the right player and the right fit. It's fantastic we've hired Chris, now he can be integrated in that in a good, big way."

    From Kloke:
    https://twitter.com/joshuakloke/stat...009168896?s=20

    Basically, don't wait up for that DP announcement.

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    Also, buried in today's presser is this news about Trabzonspor having interest in Ayo Akinola.

    https://twitter.com/turkishsoccer/st...574042628?s=20

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    Also, buried in today's presser is this news about Trabzonspor having interest in Ayo Akinola.

    https://twitter.com/turkishsoccer/st...574042628?s=20
    i gather he is a free agent next dec?

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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    i gather he is a free agent next dec?
    We picked up his option in our end season roster moves, so yes, he should be out of a contract at the end of the 2021 season.

    Signing Akinola to an extension should be a top priority for Curtis. He needs to be on a new long-term contract so that he can be sold for maximum value, whenever we decide to sell.

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    So how long does Jozy last? Can't see him lasting long from everything I've heard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamp Berg View Post
    I completely agree with your viewpoint, but I donít think it applies to TFC. Toronto always touts itself as a Ďbig teamí (especially Curtis) that can always compete for trophies. In order to do that there canít be rebuild years. The core was already built when Curtis came, he just needed to fill holes as they appeared. Sometimes the holes were small, some big, but his job is to fill them. He just didnít, to the point where the players and Vanney were publicly talking about it. Luckily the core was so good that itís kind of held up since 2017. Imagine where we be if Curtis had filled the holes that appeared, the dynasty talk could have become a reality, at least for a few years.
    As far as the academy goes, if resources are so good at TFC, why canít they do both? Itís not like itís an impossible mission. Maybe Curtis would have been a great academy director, but he does not appear to know how to run a Ďbig clubí. Makes it pretty hard to have faith in any of his choices.
    And before someone mentions Pozuelo as proof positive of Curtis, it was mentioned several times when Pozuelo came that he was on TFCís radar for a long time.
    That's true, Toronto doesn't have the patience to wait for a good team to form. Having said that, NYRB under Curtis were quite competitive. In the 2015 season, they won the Supporters' Shield and made it to the conference finals despite losing the likes of Thierry Henry and Ambroise Oyongo. In 2016, they led the Eastern Conference and made it to the conference semi-finals with a team that mostly consisted of NYRB academy products.

    Basically, if a gap can't be filled by a local product, they'll look elsewhere for good players (see the NYRB Felipe Martins trade with Montreal Impact and Gonzalo Veron). With Vanney (and Bez), we were typically looking outside the club to plug the gaps. If there's a good local product who can take over the first team, then we'll bring them in instead. This started to happen last season with Ayo Akinola, Liam Fraser, and Ralph Priso. Don't be surprised if we replace both Jozy and Bradley with TFC academy products in the near future whilst looking elsewhere for a new CB (personally, I don't rate Romeo and Dunn as highly as I used to).

    In short, our win-now approach will incorporate our academy products and finally make the academy a source of talent for the first team. Beyond that, we'll still spend money when it's warranted, but we won't necessarily be targeting the big-money signings if there's another player who can offer as much for less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    That's true, Toronto doesn't have the patience to wait for a good team to form. Having said that, NYRB under Curtis were quite competitive. In the 2015 season, they won the Supporters' Shield and made it to the conference finals despite losing the likes of Thierry Henry and Ambroise Oyongo. In 2016, they led the Eastern Conference and made it to the conference semi-finals with a team that mostly consisted of NYRB academy products.

    Basically, if a gap can't be filled by a local product, they'll look elsewhere for good players (see the NYRB Felipe Martins trade with Montreal Impact and Gonzalo Veron). With Vanney (and Bez), we were typically looking outside the club to plug the gaps. If there's a good local product who can take over the first team, then we'll bring them in instead. This started to happen last season with Ayo Akinola, Liam Fraser, and Ralph Priso. Don't be surprised if we replace both Jozy and Bradley with TFC academy products in the near future whilst looking elsewhere for a new CB (personally, I don't rate Romeo and Dunn as highly as I used to).

    In short, our win-now approach will incorporate our academy products and finally make the academy a source of talent for the first team. Beyond that, we'll still spend money when it's warranted, but we won't necessarily be targeting the big-money signings if there's another player who can offer as much for less.
    I understand the concept and Iím sure thatís what being sold to the board but the evidence so far since Curtis has arrived is pretty underwhelming. Maybe he did do well at NYRB, but people have also pointed to how top-down that organization is. MLSE is about hockey and basketball, TFC is a footnote, Manning and Curtis are driving this team. MLSE cares about growth and visibility, I worry the FO is not poised to bring either. Like I said before, I agree with everything youíve said, but itís not honest to say this is a big club with big club ambitions. Since Curtis has arrived itís been a lot of talk and very little action. That said, I welcome a change, but it would be nice to get an honest idea of what the vision is for the club, instead of saying one thing and doing another. Mind you, it still wonít command attention in this city without being a truly big club.

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    PSV are apparently letting US youth international LB Chris Gloster find a new team in January.

    PSV poached him from the NYRB academy.

    Given the positional need, Armas and Curtis...maybe one to keep an eye on.

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    Jacks discussion about Armas today once again mentionned "whether that is a #9 and they do something with Jozy Altidore"

    Something is being discussed there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    Curtis on the team's DP search: Talks continue with some of their targets. "We've been very aggressive, making sure we find the right player and the right fit. It's fantastic we've hired Chris, now he can be integrated in that in a good, big way."

    From Kloke:
    https://twitter.com/joshuakloke/stat...009168896?s=20

    Basically, don't wait up for that DP announcement.
    Since nobody else mentioned it yet, I'll do the honors...

    So in about 2 weeks then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    Curtis and Manning should be having a presser in the coming days to announce Armas. We should get a completely meaningless update on our DP search at that time.

    Two weeks.

  17. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    Curtis on the team's DP search: Talks continue with some of their targets. "We've been very aggressive, making sure we find the right player and the right fit. It's fantastic we've hired Chris, now he can be integrated in that in a good, big way."

    From Kloke:
    https://twitter.com/joshuakloke/stat...009168896?s=20



    Basically, don't wait up for that DP announcement.
    Two weeks.

  18. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthesun View Post
    We picked up his option in our end season roster moves, so yes, he should be out of a contract at the end of the 2021 season.

    Signing Akinola to an extension should be a top priority for Curtis. He needs to be on a new long-term contract so that he can be sold for maximum value, whenever we decide to sell.
    It would fit a pattern if he leaves because we didn't negotiate the contract renewal early enough,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamp Berg View Post
    I understand the concept and I’m sure that’s what being sold to the board but the evidence so far since Curtis has arrived is pretty underwhelming. Maybe he did do well at NYRB, but people have also pointed to how top-down that organization is. MLSE is about hockey and basketball, TFC is a footnote, Manning and Curtis are driving this team. MLSE cares about growth and visibility, I worry the FO is not poised to bring either. Like I said before, I agree with everything you’ve said, but it’s not honest to say this is a big club with big club ambitions. Since Curtis has arrived it’s been a lot of talk and very little action. That said, I welcome a change, but it would be nice to get an honest idea of what the vision is for the club, instead of saying one thing and doing another. Mind you, it still won’t command attention in this city without being a truly big club.
    Having watched the Jays build from 85 to the world series, and TFC from what it was to perennial finalists, its clear to me that you have to overpay to win. We could have got someone ALMOST Seba for 2 million or so. But to win, we needed Seba. Same with the Jays, and what ahppened to them after is illustriative.

    I have no problem with yout and searching out value, but you also need three great players arguably we had four in 2017 - and right now we have one (Poz) two if Jozy can come back. to get a third is $$$$ - the difference between Seba and Piatti.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Jacks discussion about Armas today once again mentionned "whether that is a #9 and they do something with Jozy Altidore"

    Something is being discussed there.
    Smoke and fire.

    Jozy has been brilliant for us. Struggled last year but last year is a pass for me. If he goes to a place he wants happy fo him but we should be careful what we wish for. Goal scorers are hard to come by. Very hard indeed.

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    No matter how much we press we need wingers and we need pace across the whole team but especially on the wing. And we also need players better than Gallardo who has to be in the top 10 worst signings TFC has ever made. Yes including the first years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavemTFC View Post
    No matter how much we press we need wingers and we need pace across the whole team but especially on the wing. And we also need players better than Gallardo who has to be in the top 10 worst signings TFC has ever made. Yes including the first years.
    I bet he gets a shot, Vanney didn't like him. Based on his results to date I would agree and I do think he was highly suspect in his play but I have seen more than one player rise from ashes with a new coach. Don't forget there could be some Ali proving Vanney wrong mentality running here.

    I really want to see if Achara recovers and can deliver, there was something about his movement off the ball that I really liked but again we saw him for 3 games...uggh

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavemTFC View Post
    No matter how much we press we need wingers and we need pace across the whole team but especially on the wing. And we also need players better than Gallardo who has to be in the top 10 worst signings TFC has ever made. Yes including the first years.
    No way, come on.

    The 40 players we traded for in that one Winter year were worse. Like Andy Iro for instance. Or Acevedo. You can never question the horribleness of what our first decade was. That will be hard to match for anyone although Cinci is trying hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    No way, come on.

    The 40 players we traded for in that one Winter year were worse. Like Andy Iro for instance. Or Acevedo. You can never question the horribleness of what our first decade was. That will be hard to match for anyone although Cinci is trying hard.
    But isnít that sort of sense of a bad signing heightened by the under performance of a group of collective players? Gallardo is saved by the fact the rest of the team is good.

    Other players were absolutely worse but that was a different era in MLS and many were on minimal pay packets. We paid decent money for Gallardo and got nothing.

    This would be an interesting thread but for me heís definitely top 10.
    Last edited by ag futbol; 01-15-2021 at 10:10 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    But isnít that sort of sense of a bad signing heightened by the under performance of a group of collective players? Gallardo is saved by the fact the rest of the team is good.

    Other players were absolutely worse but that was a different era in MLS and many were on minimal pay packets. We paid decent money for Gallardo and got nothing.

    This would be an interesting thread but for me heís definitely top 10.
    I hope in a way he sticks around in 2021 just to see if he was never good because he was never given a legit shot by Vanney or if he never deserved a shot based on skill & training. Besides if we have one buyout it should be earmarked for Jozy.

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    There are literally hundreds of guys who came into MLS on $200K or whatever and sucked. So many guys like Pablo Voti and Ahmed Kantari.

    Gallardo stands alone when you consider comp and term and transfer fee. Mista and VdW are in the conversation.

    Much smaller list of total washouts at $1.5M or whatever. Nobody will ever come close to NYCFC completely wasting $24M for Pirlo in a wheelchair in this category, but Gallardo is, sadly, kind of up there.
    ďWhat the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.Ē

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    ^ My sort of gut feeling (pure speculation) on that one is he has personal issues that are at least partially holding him back. Bust is a bust but you sort of get the sense based on how they treat him that everyone is sympathetic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamp Berg View Post
    I understand the concept and I’m sure that’s what being sold to the board but the evidence so far since Curtis has arrived is pretty underwhelming. Maybe he did do well at NYRB, but people have also pointed to how top-down that organization is. MLSE is about hockey and basketball, TFC is a footnote, Manning and Curtis are driving this team. MLSE cares about growth and visibility, I worry the FO is not poised to bring either. Like I said before, I agree with everything you’ve said, but it’s not honest to say this is a big club with big club ambitions. Since Curtis has arrived it’s been a lot of talk and very little action. That said, I welcome a change, but it would be nice to get an honest idea of what the vision is for the club, instead of saying one thing and doing another. Mind you, it still won’t command attention in this city without being a truly big club.
    I'm on the same boat as you. I'm worried about the uncertainty in TFC and the lack of transparency in its direction. We're just going to have to brace ourselves for a different approach to strengthening the squad now.

    Ultimately, it's the big names and the top-tier players who are key to winning MLS Cups. You need that extra bit of quality to overcome any and all opposition in knockout tournaments, whilst consistently good quality matters more for the Supporters' Shield. Given what I've seen of NYRB, Curtis can contribute to building solid, consistent sides, but can he contribute to building an MLS-Cup winning side? That remains to be seen.

    Personally speaking, I enjoy seeing our academy products come through, so I'm looking forward to that for next season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    There are literally hundreds of guys who came into MLS on $200K or whatever and sucked. So many guys like Pablo Voti and Ahmed Kantari.

    Gallardo stands alone when you consider comp and term and transfer fee. Mista and VdW are in the conversation.

    Much smaller list of total washouts at $1.5M or whatever. Nobody will ever come close to NYCFC completely wasting $24M for Pirlo in a wheelchair in this category, but Gallardo is, sadly, kind of up there.
    Gallardo is definitely one of the worst signings. Look up his stats in Venezuela which is a horrible league 9/10 in South America. He wasn't even that good down there. Valour just signed a player with better stats from Venezuela.

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    Jason Bent off to LAG with Vanney



    Ali going with his own guys finally.

    Wonder if there will be any institutional memory among the coaching staff.

 

 

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