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  1. #61
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    At work so not much time to think this through but will say this



    The next manager is going to decide if this team becomes what LAG has been the last 5 years or something not really seen in this league ever - a perpetual power house.

    Paint me skeptical of us becoming the Juve of MLS.

  2. #62
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    I cannot help but wonder exactly who wanted to wait on signing the extension in the summer.

    The league was in full panic mode and brutalized the players to get what they wanted (the bill for that is going to be paid one day, too).

    Manning and Ali spin more than I would like and the journo community here, such as it is, always takes them at their word. (They spun the hell out of the Pozo clown show. We left it until way too late to deal with Giovinco and Altidore.)

    Or maybe Greg really just wants to live near where he grew up, like Kawhi.

    I would not jump to any conclusion either way.
    Last edited by ensco; 12-01-2020 at 02:20 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I’m not clear if Chris Cummings would have come back either. He sounded like was ready to tell mojo and company where they could stuff it if they even asked.
    It was such a mistake to let him go. And he was another one they lied to. Along with DeRo...

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    At work so not much time to think this through but will say this



    The next manager is going to decide if this team becomes what LAG has been the last 5 years or something not really seen in this league ever - a perpetual power house.

    Paint me skeptical of us becoming the Juve of MLS.
    Lets hope though, lets hope.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I cannot help but wonder exactly who wanted to wait on signing the extension in the summer.

    The league was in full panic mode and brutalized the players to get what they wanted (the bill for that is going to be paid one day, too).

    Manning and Ali spin more than I would like and the journo community here, such as it is, always takes them at their word. (They spun the hell out of the Pozo clown show. We left it until way too late to deal with Giovinco and Altidore.)

    Or maybe Greg really just wants to live near where he grew up, like Kawhi.

    I would not jump to any conclusion either way.
    It is hard to read but the dynamics of both MLSE and Manning and Curtis are at play. How sound financially is MLSE at the moment? Is it sending signals of caution to its teams? Possibly. Or is it just internal TFC? Or just Vanney.

    Leiweke did what he wanted and therefore had to go - Manning and Curtis do what they are told. Manning is competent and apparently a really decent guy; Curtis i find hard to get a grip on, but there are a few things that are clear: They inherited Vanney and Curtis has previous with coaches; they could have signed Vanney in the summer and didn't; they could have re-signed Seba earlier and didn't, forcing their hand on Jozy and Poz

  6. #66
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    I'm not happy with year-end sad TFC news. Last year we lost Shoeless Joe's this year we lost Vanney :-(

  7. #67
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    From Vanney's own words / presser online, it really didn't sound like "they could have signed Vanney in the summer." It really sounded like Vanney had a decision to make, it was hard for him to make, he took his time, and he decided to move on. He mentioned that the last few years were tough, since the post-MLS-Cup CCL loss, and that he was thinking about this decision all this year.

    I'm also really concerned whether Manning / Curtis have the skills and the will and the support to hire a great new coach. And who knows, maybe MLSE didn't offer as much $ as they would have w/o the pandemic. Or maybe Vanney doesn't like Curtis too much. And maybe there were other things speaking against Toronto (like the prospect of spending a few more months apart from his family, due to ongoing pandemic issues). But that's pure guesswork. I didn't get any inkling from Vanney's own words that MLSE / Manning / Curtis or anyone held this up. I'm concerned some people here are making things up & going off on a tangent.

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    I believe there was some mention that Cummings' wife could not get a work visa or something, there were family separation issues, etc. Maybe it was part of the smoothing of parting ways, but that's what was said, that he didn't want to stay.
    That's all I'll say about that.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    From Vanney's own words / presser online, it really didn't sound like "they could have signed Vanney in the summer." It really sounded like Vanney had a decision to make, it was hard for him to make, he took his time, and he decided to move on. He mentioned that the last few years were tough, since the post-MLS-Cup CCL loss, and that he was thinking about this decision all this year.

    I'm also really concerned whether Manning / Curtis have the skills and the will and the support to hire a great new coach. And who knows, maybe MLSE didn't offer as much $ as they would have w/o the pandemic. Or maybe Vanney doesn't like Curtis too much. And maybe there were other things speaking against Toronto (like the prospect of spending a few more months apart from his family, due to ongoing pandemic issues). But that's pure guesswork. I didn't get any inkling from Vanney's own words that MLSE / Manning / Curtis or anyone held this up. I'm concerned some people here are making things up & going off on a tangent.
    The first is evidence of the second.

    Yes, I am one of the people speculating. At a minimum, they did not make Vanney an offer he couldn't refuse. For me it does call into question the competence of management as it isn't the first time they have waited too late to deal with an important contract. And if Vanney loved working with Curtis would he have walked away?

    It might well be that what is said is the exact truth. It also might not be.

  10. #70
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    Vanney was amazing on the whole even though I called #VanneyOut quite a few times.

    I want a Tata level manager but I think it’s far more likely we get someone from within.

  11. #71
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    from last week, FWIW:

    https://twitter.com/KristianJack/status/1331442149720731648?s=20

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    The first is evidence of the second.

    Yes, I am one of the people speculating. At a minimum, they did not make Vanney an offer he couldn't refuse. For me it does call into question the competence of management as it isn't the first time they have waited too late to deal with an important contract. And if Vanney loved working with Curtis would he have walked away?

    It might well be that what is said is the exact truth. It also might not be.
    That's a reach. Did you listen to his own words, all of them? There isn't "evidence" of anything.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    That's a reach. Did you listen to his own words, all of them? There isn't "evidence" of anything.
    Not sure why you are attacking my rather obvious point that what they are saying might not be the whole story. Accepting what is said in press conferences as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth is one approach. Using logic facts and prior experience to consider what might be being left unsaid is another. I am doing the second.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    The first is evidence of the second.

    Yes, I am one of the people speculating. At a minimum, they did not make Vanney an offer he couldn't refuse. For me it does call into question the competence of management as it isn't the first time they have waited too late to deal with an important contract. And if Vanney loved working with Curtis would he have walked away?

    It might well be that what is said is the exact truth. It also might not be.
    Vanney himself said the money, term, and everything were fine. He mentioned the issue was his family and finding new challenges. Not sure what else he can say to remove the consistent "Manning & Curtis screw up everything always" narrative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Vanney himself said the money, term, and everything were fine. He mentioned the issue was his family and finding new challenges. Not sure what else he can say to remove the consistent "Manning & Curtis screw up everything always" narrative.
    I don't think they always screw everything up. But it is fair to say they couldn't find a way to keep Vanney or Seba, but they did with Jozy. And it is possible to take a view that they didnt get any of those right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    I don't think they always screw everything up. But it is fair to say they couldn't find a way to keep Vanney or Seba, but they did with Jozy. And it is possible to take a view that they didnt get any of those right.
    Seba hasn't set the world on fire since he left. He even struggled in the Saudi League. If we kept Seba we wouldn't have gotten Poz. I would argue that we did get that one right.
    Last edited by NK Toronto; 12-01-2020 at 04:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Vanney himself said the money, term, and everything were fine. He mentioned the issue was his family and finding new challenges. Not sure what else he can say to remove the consistent "Manning & Curtis screw up everything always" narrative.
    And Curtis said they started working on a list for a potential replacement for Vanney on Sunday. Sunday. Not the beginning of this season. Or any other time as proper professional work. So if we are taking them at their words only, he has stated that he doesn't prepare for known possible events. Which he should be doing.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    Seba hasn't set the world on fire since he left. He even struggled in the Saudi League. If we kept Seba we wouldn't have gotten Poz. I would argue that we did get that one right.
    It was all a schmozzle, thats my point.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    Seba hasn't set the world on fire since he left. He even struggled in the Saudi League. If we kept Seba we wouldn't have gotten Poz. I would argue that we did get that one right.
    Disagree. Poz replaced Vazquez.
    Nobody replaced Seba.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    It was such a mistake to let him go. And he was another one they lied to. Along with DeRo...
    I liked him personally. It was clear he never had much authority to make change but was doing his best.

    Mo Johnston was just poison. They could write a book about signs of poor management and he would tick every single last box.

  21. #81
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    I do think Vanney can be replaced. He wasn't THAT great. But it involves the same question - do people with options feel like they want to be here?

    I am bummed - a team with a new coach is a kind of expansion team, in this league.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  22. #82
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    A shame Benoit Cheyrou is no longer in the org.

  23. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69Chevy396 View Post
    Disagree. Poz replaced Vazquez.
    Nobody replaced Seba.
    Very good point indeed

  24. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I do think Vanney can be replaced. He wasn't THAT great. But it involves the same question - do people with options feel like they want to be here?

    I am bummed - a team with a new coach is a kind of expansion team, in this league.
    Similar to my feelings. Plus that Curtis reacts to other's decisions - doesn't feel like he is in the driver's seat with a clear plan and back up scenarios.

  25. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    My deepest fear now is that they will hire Caldwell and we will only start Liam Fraser at every position.
    On the bright side, Caldwell as coach would mean a much less painful TSN broadcast, lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I do think Vanney can be replaced. He wasn't THAT great. But it involves the same question - do people with options feel like they want to be here?

    I am bummed - a team with a new coach is a kind of expansion team, in this league.
    Sometimes I think he saw or read some tactics and decided to try them out with TFC the next day. They didn't always make sense. We're playing a team that can't score, let's trying out this parking the bus thing....

    But far and away the most successful coach we ever had. I fear what change may bring under the circumstances (i.e. with a GM I'm not sure I have faith in).

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    A new coach will want their own players. We got an aging core that needs replacing and question marks throughout the roster.

    I got zero faith in Curtis, and not a whole lot more with Manning. This is a big loss.

    Let gets Harry Potter back!

  28. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I do think Vanney can be replaced. He wasn't THAT great. But it involves the same question - do people with options feel like they want to be here?

    I am bummed - a team with a new coach is a kind of expansion team, in this league.
    Yeah, unfortunately there isn’t really an obvious MLS coach we can scoop up.

    Previously you could have argued stealing Pareja from Dallas would have been good business. I have a lot of respect for some others too but there’s no obvious incentive to move.

    Ideally you’d scoop up some hopeless cheap team’s star coach but nobody is proven at this stage.

    Perhaps there’s a coach in Central / South America somewhere we’d all be familiar with that has previous experience? Some of these guys have MLS exposure but we never hear about it. Juan Carlos Osorio is a name but no thanks on that front.

  29. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Yeah, unfortunately there isn’t really an obvious MLS coach we can scoop up.

    Previously you could have argued stealing Pareja from Dallas would have been good business. I have a lot of respect for some others too but there’s no obvious incentive to move.

    Ideally you’d scoop up some hopeless cheap team’s star coach but nobody is proven at this stage.

    Perhaps there’s a coach in Central / South America somewhere we’d all be familiar with that has previous experience? Some of these guys have MLS exposure but we never hear about it. Juan Carlos Osorio is a name but no thanks on that front.
    I hear Diego Forlan is available.....

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