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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfcfans View Post
    WOW -- the "Gregfather" scarf needs to be made.....he will go down as our first "legendary" (in a good way) coach in club history.....is it wrong that I am very nervous as to who comes in next, and what effect that has on the group?
    ^^THIS

    I will forever be grateful for all of the success that Greg has helped bring to our glorious club. He is leaving behind a team with a solid core of experienced players and a good crop of young exciting talent. I think that whoever comes in next will be able to hit the ground running and continue to build on foundation that Greg is leaving behind.

    You will be missed Gaffer!


    Loyal We Began, Loyal We Remain

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I will be happy to eat these electrons ... but seriously, Laurent Blanc is not coming to TFC.

    It is ticket selling season, amigos.

    Carry on.
    Well, it's been confirmed by multiple sources that he's actually being interviewed, so it's not completely far-fetched.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    I wouldn't get your hopes up for any of this.

    Just because he's successful in Europe, doesn't mean he could come here and replicate any form of that success. The budgets and player depth are far inferior to what he's worked with in the past. Not every manager can deal with that. He could be the biggest coaching flop in MLS history as well.

    The Patrick Viera thing interests me more. He did well at NYCFC. He knows the limitations of the league.
    I just don't know how much of the squad and style of play he would want to change. That would be my only concern.
    The biggest concern for Vieira is the control he wants over roster building. That could be interpreted in many ways. Does he want the final say, a say in the decision making, or be part of a collaborative effort with Ali Curtis and Bill Manning? If Vieira is happy with being part of the discussion with bringing new players in, yes bring him in, since that happened to be Vanney's role during his tenure here.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    I'm leery about Blanc as doesn't look like he's coached in a while. I wonder if he is current with the latest tactical trends in the game. Or does time off matter as much with coaches as it does with players?
    i thought the same about jose mourinho but he seems to be doing just fine, so who knows?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I will be happy to eat these electrons ... but seriously, Laurent Blanc is not coming to TFC.

    It is ticket selling season, amigos.

    Carry on.
    You are right but let us have some fun Ensco!

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by noimpactinmtl View Post
    The biggest concern for Vieira is the control he wants over roster building. That could be interpreted in many ways. Does he want the final say, a say in the decision making, or be part of a collaborative effort with Ali Curtis and Bill Manning? If Vieira is happy with being part of the discussion with bringing new players in, yes bring him in, since that happened to be Vanney's role during his tenure here.
    I would trust Viera over Ali. There is no way someone of his pedigree will accept putting his reputation and success in the hands of someone with the pedigree of Curtis

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I will be happy to eat these electrons ... but seriously, Laurent Blanc is not coming to TFC.

    It is ticket selling season, amigos.

    Carry on.
    I mean sure but is a French manager really a draw?

    The people that truly care about this are probably already STH or already planning on coming to BMO. Some French guy Joe and Jane haven’t heard of isn’t going to move the needle. I can’t see a manager not named Cannavarro, Gattuso or Mourinho etc selling tickets here for obvious cultural reasons.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokecell View Post
    I mean sure but is a French manager really a draw?

    The people that truly care about this are probably already STH or already planning on coming to BMO. Some French guy Joe and Jane haven’t heard of isn’t going to move the needle. I can’t see a manager not named Cannavarro, Gattuso or Mourinho etc selling tickets here for obvious cultural reasons.
    I have to agree with this to be honest. If Blanc were Portuguese or Italian then he’d have a big draw. Not sure how in tune the soccer population is going to be with a guy who has spent his entire managerial career in France.

    Then again if the media hypes the shit out of him he may pick up some serious fanfare.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    I have to agree with this to be honest. If Blanc were Portuguese or Italian then he’d have a big draw. Not sure how in tune the soccer population is going to be with a guy who has spent his entire managerial career in France.

    Then again if the media hypes the shit out of him he may pick up some serious fanfare.
    Luckily since we're not Dallas or Houston and actually have a solid fanbase, we don't have to worry about appealing to certain nationalities to beg for fans.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Luckily since we're not Dallas or Houston and actually have a solid fanbase, we don't have to worry about appealing to certain nationalities to beg for fans.
    No kidding. If someone only cares about a player and/or coach (and the so the 'team') based on their ethnicity, they're not really a fan, and they also haven't really learned anything from living in Toronto.

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    I agree that Laurent Blanc is not a “draw”. But TFC has a big list of lapsed SSHs and micro marketing to that group is different. (I am a former SSH and they have emailed twice in the last week, that is what caused me to point this dynamic out)

    Leaking the name of a couple of “name” brand managers, one of whose name always pops up at Juve or Arsenal or similar, would be a smart tactic, when approaching a few thousand people like me. Plus nobody is lying, sure, why wouldn’t there be a conversation with those guys, and I guess it is theoretically possible that they might come at our price? In the way that it’s theoretically possible you will win the Lottomax tonight. A lot of tires get kicked in a process like this.

    I don’t understand why people think Vieira wants this either btw. His interest was clearly in the greater game when he was at NYCFC. That's why he was there. When Ryan Nelsen didn’t get what he wanted from the manager game, he just started making wine and became an agent, he didn’t try to get another gig on the same ladder somewhere. These guys have millions of dollars, Vieira more than Nelsen. What is the evidence that the TFC managing job leads anywhere? Literally the only guy who has ever made MLS a stepping stone to managing in Europe (Jesse Marsch) is a guy who got fired by our GM. It’s not obviously Vieira's life's ambition to become the next Dom Kinnear, is it?

    Just because nobody is whispering a longer list, or some NCAA or USL or MLS assistant names, doesn’t mean those names aren’t likelier.

    Just as a for instance, Jason Kreis is a hell of a lot likelier than either of those two guys... and, like it or not, a reality based conversation about this should have his name on the shortlist. But nobody here would be thrilled by that, and he sells exactly zero tickets... but if I had to pick a single name that I would bet on, Kreis is the name.

    ———————-

    The more I think about this, the more I think it was about money. (Mostly because I always think it’s about money.)

    Blanc made 6M euros a year at PSG. What do we think Vanney made? 500K? 750K? I remember when Kreis got a million from NYCFC a few years back, that supposedly threw the whole MLS manager salary structure upside down. (This salary disparity is another reason the Vieira/Blanc rumours are silly.)

    I bet Greg simply thought he deserved more. I hope he gets it.
    Last edited by ensco; 12-12-2020 at 09:15 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  12. #252
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    My two cents, it is nice to see Blanc and Viera but to be honest, I would be looking for someone with a) resume of success (of course) but b) someone who knows how to teach and manage with raw assets (we have some graduates presumably on their way) We are fortunate at TFC to have some experience and quality but there can be a steep drop off and a manager who has been successful with world class talent may not be the approach for a group that may not quite have all the tools required.... and I am saying this with absolutely nothing but respect for our players.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I agree that Laurent Blanc is not a “draw”. But TFC has a big list of lapsed SSHs and micro marketing to that group is different. (I am a former SSH and they have emailed twice in the last week, that is what caused me to point this dynamic out)

    Leaking the name of a couple of “name” brand managers, one of whose name always pops up at Juve or Arsenal or similar, would be a smart tactic, when approaching a few thousand people like me. Plus nobody is lying, sure, why wouldn’t there be a conversation with those guys, and I guess it is theoretically possible that they might come at our price? In the way that it’s theoretically possible you will win the Lottomax tonight. A lot of tires get kicked in a process like this.

    Agree with this.

    I don’t understand why people think Vieira wants this either btw. His interest was clearly in the greater game when he was at NYCFC. That's why he was there. When Ryan Nelsen didn’t get what he wanted from the manager game, he just started making wine and became an agent, he didn’t try to get another gig on the same ladder somewhere. These guys have millions of dollars, Vieira more than Nelsen. What is the evidence that the TFC managing job leads anywhere? Literally the only guy who has ever made MLS a stepping stone to managing in Europe (Jesse Marsch) is a guy who got fired by our GM. It’s not obviously Vieira's life's ambition to become the next Dom Kinnear, is it?

    Likely correct. It's a pipe dream.

    Just because nobody is whispering a longer list, or some NCAA or USL or MLS assistant names, doesn’t mean those names aren’t likelier.

    Just as a for instance, Jason Kreis is a hell of a lot likelier than either of those two guys... and, like it or not, a reality based conversation about this should have his name on the shortlist. But nobody here would be thrilled by that, and he sells exactly zero tickets... but if I had to pick a single name that I would bet on, Kreis is the name.

    ———————-

    The more I think about this, the more I think it was about money. (Mostly because I always think it’s about money.)

    Blanc made 6M euros a year at PSG. What do we think Vanney made? 500K? 750K? I remember when Kreis got a million from NYCFC a few years back, that supposedly threw the whole MLS manager salary structure upside down. (This salary disparity is another reason the Vieira/Blanc rumours are silly.)

    I bet Greg simply thought he deserved more. I hope he gets it.

    I don't see this last point at all. More likely he and Curtis never quite saw eye to eye. Two of the last three years (2018 and 2020) have been arduous and if he isn't 100 per cent with Curtis, its easy for him to conclude his time is done. I also think COVID / family separation was tough for him.
    Last edited by MightyDM; 12-12-2020 at 12:06 PM.

  14. #254
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    I would be quite happy with Vanney part 2 - young and deserving of his (or her????) opportunity.
    Last edited by MightyDM; 12-12-2020 at 12:06 PM.

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    I keep thinking that it would be nice to have a manager who is willing to do things like bench Bradley when he is dead on his feet. But that also brings to mind that any manager is going to have blind spots, whether it’s not rotating players enough, or being too conservative or rash. It begs the question, what blind spots are most acceptable in a new manager?

  16. #256
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    I think an MLS experiences coach will be the route Bill and Ali go.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    There's actually a very interesting article posted on The Athletic, where in short, is basically mentions that coaches that come from abroad, and don't already have MLS experience, tend to struggle in the league. A reason for this is the rather odd roster rules of the league to aquire players, and knowing how to correctly apply the various different roster mechanisms to correctly build a team.

    Also mentions that aside from the MLS Cup championship game itself, coaches and sporting directors that come from abroad tend not get very far in the playoffs.

    https://theathletic.com/2252872/2020...c-coaches-gms/

    Some key paragraphs from this article (subscription required), especially in response to some of the posts in this thread:

    That’s nothing new, of course. MLS teams have long been populated by players signed from overseas, with international signings like Lodeiro, Miguel Almirón, Sebastian Giovinco and Diego Valeri serving as the key pieces on each of the last six league champions.

    Recently, that phenomenon has begun to make its way into coaching and sporting director positions. Since the start of the 2017-18 offseason, 12 of the 29 full-time head coaching hires and nine of the 24 sporting director hires came to the league from abroad and with no more than one year of prior experience in MLS as a player, coach or executive. That’s a marked increase over the previous three-year period that began with the 2014-15 offseason, when only four of the 16 coaching jobs and zero of the 15 sporting director gigs went to internationals with that same lack of MLS experience.

    The increases make sense. MLS is spending more money on those positions and is more visible than ever before; it’s natural that more people from all corners of the world would be interested in working in the league. MLS’s rapid expansion in recent years (and the jobs that come with it) doesn’t hurt the trend, either.

    “More people are throwing their hat in the ring from overseas because of all the exciting things this league is doing,” said Crew president and GM Tim Bezbatchenko, an American who spent years working in the league office before he got his first GM job with Toronto FC in 2013. “I think that’s a great sign.”


    However, the increases haven’t done anything to disprove the old, infamous MLS trope: Coaches and sporting directors who come to the league without previous experience largely struggle. And because Americans and Canadians are the most likely nationalities to have that experience, they end up making up most of the more successful leadership teams in the league.


    Only three times in the last 10 seasons has a coach or sporting director who came to MLS from abroad with no more than one year of experience in the league advanced to MLS Cup or won the Supporters’ Shield. Andy Roxburgh won the 2013 Shield as New York Red Bulls Sporting Director, Tata Martino won MLS Cup as Atlanta’s head coach in 2018 and Philadelphia Union Sporting Director Ernst Tanner captured the Shield this season.


    Even aside from the MLS Cup matchup, this season was a good example of how much prior MLS experience tends to lead to success. Of the 19 coaches and sporting directors from the top-10 regular season finishers, only two, Tanner and New York City FC head coach Ronny Deila, were hired from abroad with no more than a year of previous MLS experience. Only one such individual, FC Dallas technical director Andre Zanotta, made it to the final eight of the playoffs. None made it to the conference finals.

    “It’s not that a foreigner couldn’t come in and do it or couldn’t come in and learn it, it just takes more time and effort,” said Lagerwey. “And most of the time when you’re attracting folks from other countries to this culture, they’re not staying long-term. They’re not always entirely invested in learning a whole new system in what is, for most of them, a stop on the train. It’s not home. Are Americans going to be more invested? I mean, I sure hope so.”

    Take first-year Chicago Fire head coach Raphael Wicky and sporting director Georg Heitz as a case study. The pair famously helped underdog FC Basel advance to the knockout stage of the Champions League during their run at the Swiss club, but they struggled with the Fire in 2020, finishing the season in 11th place in the 14-team Eastern Conference.


    Part of that was due to the difficult situation they inherited at a club in transition on and off the field. But another part of it came down to their unfamiliarity with the peculiarities of MLS. Heitz told reporters during his postseason press conference that the MLS rules “are extremely, extremely complicated for someone who comes from abroad… it is way too complicated for me.”


    That steep learning curve can make things difficult for incoming sporting directors, many of whom, like Heitz, have spent their first seasons in charge leaning on their networks in their home countries to acquire players. That can lead to said sporting directors neglecting the domestic market and missing out on the lower-cost moves — signings like Seattle’s Shane O’Neill and Will Bruin or Columbus’s Josh Williams or Andrew Tarbell — that can be so important to building a winner under the restrictive MLS budget rules.


    In MLS, domestic coaches and sporting directors seem to handle those challenges better than their counterparts who arrive with little previous experience in American and Canadian soccer. That’s not to say those international hires can’t succeed, just that they might need a little bit more time and a little bit more support to do so.

    “I think there’s definitely a movement to bringing in foreign coaches, but I think it’s great that there are just as many American coaches doing well,” said Porter. “And when you look at the top teams this year it’s no different.”
    Last edited by spe18; 12-12-2020 at 04:54 PM.

  18. #258
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    Vanney isn't irreplaceable, but I agree that he's definitely one of the best coaches in the league and someone I can see managing the USMNT one day.

    Vieira would definitely be my first choice. Proven in MLS, and proven with a team that has a pretty similar budget and roster makeup to ours. Everyone else is either a huge downgrade or a huge risk or both

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    Here's a crazy idea:

    Vanney was both head coach and technical director; what if we get Blanc for head coach, and Viera for TD?

    They can work together to build the team - Viera's experience with the league plus Blanc's coaching pedigree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by James17930 View Post
    Viera's experience with the league plus Blanc's coaching pedigree.
    I think this is being very overblown. The guy inherited a good squad and had roster spots filled by Man City academy kids. Yes he was pretty good for a few years but he never got them over the hump and frequently played guys out of position and seemed to be lost with MLS rules. It should be noted that Villa and to a lesser extent their other DPs papered over a lot of cracks there and they always got exposed when it got tough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I think this is being very overblown. The guy inherited a good squad and had roster spots filled by Man City academy kids. Yes he was pretty good for a few years but he never got them over the hump and frequently played guys out of position and seemed to be lost with MLS rules. It should be noted that Villa and to a lesser extent their other DPs papered over a lot of cracks there and they always got exposed when it got tough.
    And he won't inherit a good squad or have the kind of players who could paper over cracks elsewhere if he came to TFC, right?

    I think he did well here, one of the most successful foreign managers recently I would say. His big weakness to me was insisting on always playing it out the back. I think he would fit with our style for the most part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    And he won't inherit a good squad or have the kind of players who could paper over cracks elsewhere if he came to TFC, right?

    I think he did well here, one of the most successful foreign managers recently I would say. His big weakness to me was insisting on always playing it out the back. I think he would fit with our style for the most part.
    Question is whether you're happy with a manager who succeeds because there is enough talent in his roster to cover the cracks or whether you'd like a manager who can cover the cracks tactically. I didn't see that from Viera. I saw it from Vanney at times and I saw Vanney undo Viera quite a few times when it really mattered.

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    Miami fired Alonso today. I would take him over Viera. He lead a shitty Miami roster with terrible DPs to the playoffs in their first season.

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    To me finding an ideal fit comes down to what I see as the main priorities if we're replacing both of Vanney's titles in one hire: a person whose tactical, and player management abilities have led to adequate success, and potentially more importantly someone who has shown demonstrated experience leading a highly productive academy which produces a flow of talent either for the first team, or to sell on. Having a big club on your resume doesn't hurt, but like it or not TFC isn't PSG or Bayern. TFC is more akin to a good team in a selling league like Portugal, Holland or Mexico (obviously not at that level). Show me a coach in a spot like that who has had success winning while producing talent in the pipeline and that is someone who despite the uniqueness of MLS, probably has the skill set to succeed here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Miami fired Alonso today. I would take him over Viera. He lead a shitty Miami roster with terrible DPs to the playoffs in their first season.
    Apparently he didn't get fired. Lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Apparently he didn't get fired. Lol.
    Nobody knows. He thinks he did, the owners say they haven't....yet.

    Probably gone now anyways as it leaked. Not a great look for them either way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Nobody knows. He thinks he did, the owners say they haven't....yet.

    Probably gone now anyways as it leaked. Not a great look for them either way.
    Very Costanza.

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    Lol, I guess someone had to take up the mantle of dysfunctional club.

    I would like to see this hire done by first week of Jan. We need to move on to signings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Very Costanza.
    I hear Alonso has been telling people he wants to be an an architect

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    If they were interviewing preferred candidates last week then you’d hope for an announcement by the end of this week. Otherwise I’m going to start worrying that we’re scraping the bottom of some kind of barrel.

 

 

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