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  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    I really don"t understand the disdain towards Manning and Curtis on this forum vs the absolute reverence shown towards Vanney. It's as if all failures are the fault of the former, and all successes due to the latter. A new coach hasn't even been hired and yet many of you have already decided that it will be a bad hire.
    I certainly don't & didn't feel absolute reverence towards Vanney. I thought he was a risky, fairly inexperienced hire for a cranky fan-base & long-troubled team. His inexperience was certainly noticeable in the beginning; things like delayed substitutions; reaction towards game situations rather than proactively taking control; inability to deal with changing situations like being up a man; etc. I think Vanney improved noticeably in many areas, und helped to bring TFC great success, but he still had some weaknesses. Was it about a year ago that Vanney himself admitted in an interview that he is not always pragmatic enough? I also don't know if he ever had full control over all players (especially Bradley for example).

    With the arrangement Manning / Curtis / Vanney, it's often not clear who was responsible for what. Vanney was not hired by the former two. It worked quite well in the big picture, but we don't know exactly how smoothly things were going on the inside. Vanney mentioned the last few years, ever since almost winning CCL, were difficult. Ensco feels that Curtis doesn't have that much to say; I believe he is probably supposed to find and sign mid-level & low-level talent (and his success with that has been mixed). I think he is also supposed to develop portions of the overall strategy. Definitely Curtis' (and sometimes Manning's) messaging has been awful, like repeatedly over-promising things that either came late or not at all. And they seemed unprepared for many situations that were not really unexpected.

    However some of the player mishaps could be partially on Vanney. I think he was sometimes still a bit pedantic and not pragmatic enough. We can always debate about specific players, but I would often see new players on the field for a while; playing pretty well but not perfect; even improving; and then falling by the wayside and barely seen for weeks / months / years. And some other players on the roster we would absolutely never see. Meanwhile certain other players would always play, despite errors and/or exhaustion, until injuries or other issues knocked them out completely. Then sometimes those newer players who hadn't featured at all would suddenly be thrown in, and most people could say "see they aren't any good." Players aren't going to improve or gel with the team w/o playing time. A coach somehow has to find times within the season or within a game, and/or areas on the field, where those newer players can be mixed in, gain experience, and gel. And a coach might have to adapt his tactics, and be very good at motivating & directing both old and new players, to improve the chances of that succeeding. I don't think Vanney was always able to do all that, and that can cloud any of the successes or failures of those above him.

    Plus if you ride a limited roster for most of the season, then it's going to be difficult to respond and train correctly based on sports analytics. You're more likely to run into problems with fixture congestion, late-season collapse and injury. I guess that would have been the fault of both Vanney, and those above (by not providing the best roster to him).

    Others have described some of the concerns we have with Manning, Curtis, and the possible overall direction of the team. We shall see how they do with hiring a coach, and dealing with some of the major player personnel issues we currently have. With Vanney gone, the direct and indirect responsibility more clearly falls to Manning and Curtis.
    Last edited by Auzzy; 12-29-2020 at 07:07 PM.

  2. #362
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    Club America naming Solari as their replacement for Herrera today...that’s the kind of power move I’d love to see here

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post

    Plus if you ride a limited roster for most of the season, then it's going to be difficult to respond and train correctly based on sports analytics. You're more likely to run into problems with fixture congestion, late-season collapse and injury. I guess that would have been the fault of both Vanney, and those above (by not providing the best roster to him).
    .
    This basically summarizes what happened in the 2020 season.

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Seems like that analytics company just gives recommendations on training patterns but it's up to our coaching staff to actually do the training.
    That could be, but I just found it odd the work of Kitman Labs was never mentioned again, after "sports science against injuries" was hyped up at the time of the above article (2018). With other technical changes around the club, like every time the pitch was changed, construction, other things, there was usually some follow-up with special articles & videos, by the team and/or outside journos. Even after they introduced additional "sports science" earlier there was more follow-up & stories. Not sure if the earlier time I was thinking of is 2014, mentioned in the following article, or even earlier. (I can't remember when they first started with the heart rate monitors, and tracking player movements on the field for example.) https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2014/...hods-analytics

  5. #365
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    Well if there's going to be a lockout, why spend money hiring a coach. Manning and Curtis playing 4D financial chess

    (this post is a tongue in cheek attempt at a bad joke)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    However, I thought Piatti did well for us. he played hard, really hard - covered his defensive responsibilities - and was very talented. He and poz work well together. We still needed a winger, but with him Poz and Richie working the right side we were very effective indeed - dangerous.
    I think he’s a tidy player but realistically if we’re to get anywhere Curtis should have got a Piatti on Gallardo’s money and Piatti’s DP spot should have been used on a real game changer.

    If Laryea didn’t step up, I think we would be pretty sour about TFC’s attack and the Piatti move in a DP spot would be more under the microscope

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    If Laryea didn’t step up, I think we would be pretty sour about TFC’s attack and the Piatti move in a DP spot would be more under the microscope
    this is an excellent point that I never thought of. Laryea’s contribution to the offense covered up for a lack of goals and creativity.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I think he’s a tidy player but realistically if we’re to get anywhere Curtis should have got a Piatti on Gallardo’s money and Piatti’s DP spot should have been used on a real game changer.

    If Laryea didn’t step up, I think we would be pretty sour about TFC’s attack and the Piatti move in a DP spot would be more under the microscope
    This is extremely accurate. The best players on the team this year were Pozuelo and Laryea in that order. The rest of the team wasn’t even close imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I think he’s a tidy player but realistically if we’re to get anywhere Curtis should have got a Piatti on Gallardo’s money and Piatti’s DP spot should have been used on a real game changer.

    If Laryea didn’t step up, I think we would be pretty sour about TFC’s attack and the Piatti move in a DP spot would be more under the microscope
    Last years DP rules limited the 3rd DP to no more than a salary of $1.6M so not a lot of game changers around at that rate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Last years DP rules limited the 3rd DP to no more than a salary of $1.6M so not a lot of game changers around at that rate.
    Actually, I don't think the 3rd DP rule went into effect last season.

    Only that the CBA reached last season gave the league the option to invoke the rule as early as this upcoming season (2021).

    But I haven't heard anything yet indicating the league intends to proceed with it at this time, especially since we're almost into the signing period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Last years DP rules limited the 3rd DP to no more than a salary of $1.6M so not a lot of game changers around at that rate.
    I hear you and perhaps “real game changer” on my part is an overstatement given the constraints on the roster (despite some exceptions where teams have real impact players that can fit under $1.5 million in salary).

    That said, I think we can look around the league and bench mark Paitti against other similar players and it becomes rather clear you can get his sort of production / characteristics without using a DP spot.
    Last edited by ag futbol; 12-30-2020 at 11:01 AM.

  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    This is extremely accurate. The best players on the team this year were Pozuelo and Laryea in that order. The rest of the team wasn’t even close imo.
    I think your a little harsh on Osorio, he was asked to take on a new role and I think he was pretty awesome at it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I know for a DP level guy he didn't tear it up but he was really like a TAM level by salary and new to the league plus coming off a decent injury lay off. For all that 4 goals and 4 assists isn't bad. He gets talked about like he's Gallardo but he is way more useful than Gallardo and even Jozy. At least he plays.
    Agreed! He's a pro who has played at a high level and he looked it. He wasn't a superstar but he was solid enough and I for one will be sad if he can't be re-signed on a reduced contract.

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    We were one of the best teams in the league and had a relatively stingy defence compared to most teams - the idea we were pathetic doesn't past muster.

  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    I think your a little harsh on Osorio, he was asked to take on a new role and I think he was pretty awesome at it.
    I think he should take Bradley's spot full time and Bradley can be the extra DM when we play high offense teams, have tough away matches, or protect late leads instead of doing our stupid extra CB thing that kills our midfield every time.

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    TFC has apparently interviewed Armas multiple times. https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/...d-coaching-job

    I don't know too much about him, but would be okay with this I think.

  17. #377
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    and they have interviewed olsen a few times,you have to it hand to curtis and manning they are taking there time to see which one is these guys are the least shite
    Last edited by reggie; 12-31-2020 at 01:20 PM.

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    Good grief, what an uninspiring group of candidates.

    Ben Olsen would be submitting his resume to the local high school to hold a mop if this insular league didn’t insist on recycling its insiders so often.

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    If I had to choose between Armas and Olsen I would choose lockout. A long, long lockout.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Good grief, what an uninspiring group of candidates.
    Yup. No slam dunk domestic candidate out there. Overseas hires will be risky. Whoever gets the gig a lot of us likely won't be happy.

  21. #381
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    i rather go with MB then these 2 retreads,boy do i miss TL.

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    Armas couldn't stick with the game plan that got them the Supporter's Shield and never recovered the locker room.

    Olsen is the nicest guy in MLS - he fits the organization in many ways - but can he do anything away from DCU? Can he work with big names? I'd take him as an assistant in the role of Frasier beside a new guy to the League.

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    Retreads ==Tells you where management heads are.
    Aramas must be a friend of Curtis from the old days maybe a good YES man definitely not going to win with guys like this.

  24. #384
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    Interesting, according to media reports, Ben Olsen has emerged as one of the favourites for the opening at Sheffield Wednesday? Would be very intriguing for him, taking a shot managing a club in The Championship.

    https://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/ex-usa-international-among-new-favourites-sheffield-wednesday-job-stoke-city-dealt-blow-race-winger-championship-gossip-

    The club has already seen two managers already sacked this year (pulis after just 10 games in charge), playing with a points deduction for breaching financial fair play (although that was reduced from 12 to 6), and then there was a story about players not getting paid in full for november. so not just bad, but also a bit of a train wreck off the field. Guess it would come down to a question of stability in my eyes when looking at both this opportunity and one here with the Reds.
    Last edited by Red CB Toronto; 12-31-2020 at 04:12 PM.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    I don’t share this reflexive barf reflex towards Olsen. What is that based on?

    I think that DCU team often played well over the years, with a low payroll and mediocre talent.

    With more resources they had a pretty decent 2019, yes they coughed it up in the last couple of weeks at the end (sound familiar?) but it’s not the only thing to focus on. DCU gave us a very tough game in the 2019 playoffs.

    The retread thing, seriously, have any of you guys saying that ever tried to hire anybody before? You want experience or don’t you? Next time you go to get surgery at the hospital, heaven forbid you ask if the surgeon has ever done the procedure before....

    This isn't some guy getting his 6th gig in 15 years or something. I could be a fan of taking advantage when someone else paid all the tuition.

    Olsen would be fine. I would have reservations about Armas, the Supporters Shield season felt like a one-off aberration and Curtis shouldn’t just be allowed to work his fairly limited Rolodex here.
    Last edited by ensco; 12-31-2020 at 04:27 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Olsen > Armas.

    My expectations for this hire are real fucking low. Club feels like it’s regressed in ambition since Manning came on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Good grief, what an uninspiring group of candidates.

    Ben Olsen would be submitting his resume to the local high school to hold a mop if this insular league didn’t insist on recycling its insiders so often.
    I don't think that's exclusive to MLS. Look how many teams Sam Allardyce and Harry Redknapp have managed. Given the byzantine rules of MLS, where you have $100k fullbacks in the same starting 11 as $6MM strikers, a coach with MLS experience is a good thing to have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noxx98 View Post
    TFC has apparently interviewed Armas multiple times. https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/...d-coaching-job

    I don't know too much about him, but would be okay with this I think.
    I also don't know much about him, but he has a winning record, won a Shield and knows the league, so I wouldn't have a problem either. Honestly I would rather the club spend money on a big time DP then on a big name coach. Doing both I don't believe is realistic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    The retread thing, seriously, have any of you guys saying that ever tried to hire anybody before? You want experience or don’t you? Next time you go to get surgery at the hospital, heaven forbid you ask if the surgeon has ever done the procedure before....
    .
    Depends what kind of experience you’re looking for. If it’s specifically MLS experience then sure, else this statement discounts the fact that soccer is played in every nation around the world. I think this is where the distaste for a hire like Armas or Olsen comes from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Olsen > Armas.

    My expectations for this hire are real fucking low. Club feels like it’s regressed in ambition since Manning came on.
    The club does seen less ambitious since 2018, but I am not sure it's because of Manning. I think it is because of a lack of fan interest in the club. Attendance has been dropping since 2018 to the point where the club rarely sells out anymore, and TV ratings are abysmal. If you tune into any of the sports radio or tv shows on RSN or TSN you wouldn't know that Toronto even has a pro soccer team. Instead you get a steady diet of Jay's, Raptors, NHL and even the NFL. This isn't any type of conspiracy to keep soccer down. The media is just focusing on those sports where there is the most fan interest and soccer is not one of them. Because of the lack of fan interest I believe MLSE has cut Manning's budget. If you remember just over a year ago the team went to MLS Cup, and the the buzz around the city for this was zero.

    The reason I have become a regular on this forum is not just to banter about TFC with other supporters, but also because it's one of the very few sources of information about the club. Whether we want to admit it or not, TFC are just a notch above the Argos in terms of relevancy in this city, and far below the other 3 pro teams.
    Last edited by NK Toronto; 12-31-2020 at 05:57 PM.

 

 

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