View Poll Results: Greg Vanney Support

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  1. #31
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    100% support for Vanney.

    He has shown to be forward thinking and grown leaps and bounds.

    Great manager and role model.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    100% support for Vanney.

    He has shown to be forward thinking and grown leaps and bounds.

    Great manager and role model.
    I would argue that given the talent that TFC has brought in over the past 6 years we should have won more trophies than 1 shield and 1 MLS Cup, both in the same year. In some ways we have underachieved. We don't seem to fare too well in finals. If Vanney is not back I wouldn't be devastated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    I would argue that given the talent that TFC has brought in ...

    The only team in our league arguably better then us these last 5 seasons has been Seattle. Unlike Europe, money does not guarantee success (see ATL & LAFC) - nor does it make up for bad coaching (see LAG the last 5 years).

    BTW, the "their salary is more then others therefore they should be great" idea is a canard. We have ALWAYS been near the top in salary. Because we tend to spend more on DP's then others do. High salary DP's do not guarantee success either - (see us 2018 & Miami this year)

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Team crying out for speed & width as well as young CBs - gets none.
    Gallardo was suppose to provide width and pace, but I think Vanney prefers more of a wide midfielder over forward wingers because of defense.

    I really thought the team was going to switch to more of a offensive 4-3-3 or a proper 4-2-3-1.

  5. #35
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    How about we wait until February and then have an Ali Curtis poll?

    I remain skeptical that he has an ability to recognize and sign talent and isn't just a political bullshitter. When he was in NY, Jesse Marsch reportedly couldn't work with him, and his hundred-of-pages "plan" for the franchise was roundly mocked by other staff. Most of the gains in their youth system made before he got there seem now to have evaporated.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhandsome90 View Post
    Gallardo was suppose to provide width and pace, but I think Vanney prefers more of a wide midfielder over forward wingers because of defense.
    Or who can do anything competently at this level, even. Gallardo is the second coming of Akexte.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    How about we wait until February and then have an Ali Curtis poll?

    I remain skeptical that he has an ability to recognize and sign talent and isn't just a political bullshitter.
    I'm afraid he's just a political bullshitter, but I hope I'm wrong.
    I give him maximum 3 months beginning with today, to prove he can do anything valuable for TFC.

    Promoting talent from TFC 2 to TFC? I don't find that for such we even need someone in his position. He needs to be judged stricty on signings from outside the TFC organisation.
    Last edited by PizzaEatingYeti; 12-01-2020 at 07:58 AM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaEatingYeti View Post
    Promoting talent from TFC 2 to TFC? I don't find that for such we even need someone in his position. He needs to be judged stricty on signings from outside the TFC organisation.
    If he works like he did when in NYRB, it's not about him promoting players from TFC2, it's about him getting the right people and procedures in place that we can actually develop players than could play for TFC rather than just eat a free supplemental roster spot until they're released as we've mostly done since 2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    The only team in our league arguably better then us these last 5 seasons has been Seattle. Unlike Europe, money does not guarantee success (see ATL & LAFC) - nor does it make up for bad coaching (see LAG the last 5 years).

    BTW, the "their salary is more then others therefore they should be great" idea is a canard. We have ALWAYS been near the top in salary. Because we tend to spend more on DP's then others do. High salary DP's do not guarantee success either - (see us 2018 & Miami this year)
    This is extremely spot on. People bitching about only winning in 2017 are writing off that the team made the finals two other years, which in MLS structure is a pretty amazing feat.

    I don't think you can read too much into this season, given the COVID asterisks, but they still did just fine until injuries took them down in the end.

    He took a team that had never made playoffs before, got them their first berth, then next year their first final (losing in PKs), then their first shield and Cup, then all the way to CCF finals PKs. Over those 2.5 years the team had almost no downtime because of making it to the finals, and at the end of the CCF run they were broken, and with the league's roster structure, they couldn't recover for that season. The next season they were right back to the finals.

    That's actually a hell of a record.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Most of the gains in their youth system made before he got there seem now to have evaporated.
    They have a number of academy products in the first team now, who would have started development about the time Curtis implemented his plan. Any academy plans take about 8 years to come to fruition, so wait and see how the Red Bulls develop over the next decade before judging his legacy there.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    They have a number of academy products in the first team now, who would have started development about the time Curtis implemented his plan. Any academy plans take about 8 years to come to fruition, so wait and see how the Red Bulls develop over the next decade before judging his legacy there.
    This long term time frame thing for academy players is misguided. A prospect of a player going pro isn’t ruined if you get him later in his teen years. We drop and sign new youth players season-to-season all the time as is common in many places across the globe.

    Youth development is all over the map. Players ascend or descend rapidly depending on their work ethic, physical abilities, or what the next level of play requires. Having to switch players usually is not indicative of bad coaching or scouting.

    There are plenty of good places to develop outside of TFCA in the GTA. If you put in place proper scouting, recruitment and coaching you can see results in far less time. Of course all else equal the players you get after 8 years will be better than those after lesser time periods but the future of TFCA is not dependent on the type of coaching some 13 year old kid is getting right now.

    Case in point Ralph Priso failed to make TFCA 3 years straight before being accepted to the program. He now looks like our most MLS-ready academy grad.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul-collins View Post
    This is extremely spot on. People bitching about only winning in 2017 are writing off that the team made the finals two other years, which in MLS structure is a pretty amazing feat.

    I don't think you can read too much into this season, given the COVID asterisks, but they still did just fine until injuries took them down in the end.

    He took a team that had never made playoffs before, got them their first berth, then next year their first final (losing in PKs), then their first shield and Cup, then all the way to CCF finals PKs. Over those 2.5 years the team had almost no downtime because of making it to the finals, and at the end of the CCF run they were broken, and with the league's roster structure, they couldn't recover for that season. The next season they were right back to the finals.

    That's actually a hell of a record.
    Yes it is. It is a real loss to lose Vanney. Might even be the right time, but it's a real loss.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    This long term time frame thing for academy players is misguided. A prospect of a player going pro isn’t ruined if you get him later in his teen years. We drop and sign new youth players season-to-season all the time as is common in many places across the globe.

    Youth development is all over the map. Players ascend or descend rapidly depending on their work ethic, physical abilities, or what the next level of play requires. Having to switch players usually is not indicative of bad coaching or scouting.

    There are plenty of good places to develop outside of TFCA in the GTA. If you put in place proper scouting, recruitment and coaching you can see results in far less time. Of course all else equal the players you get after 8 years will be better than those after lesser time periods but the future of TFCA is not dependent on the type of coaching some 13 year old kid is getting right now.

    Case in point Ralph Priso failed to make TFCA 3 years straight before being accepted to the program. He now looks like our most MLS-ready academy grad.
    Boy he impressed. Like a seasoned midfielder.

  14. #44
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    Closing this thread as it's now moot.

    Continue with the Greg Vanney steps down thread (for general discussion of Vanney's legacy positive or negative, or his replacement, etc.): http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showth...ney-Steps-Down

    or the Greg Vanney appreciation thread (tributes only): http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showth...ciation-thread


 

 

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