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  1. #31
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    A factor that may also play a role in how MLS evolves is the prospect of international broadcast rights. I can see the day when MLS receives more money from foreign broadcast rights than from North America. If that happens then these broadcasters are going to want some say when matches are played and how competitions are structured, and as we all know money talks.

    Wasn't there a story a couple of years ago about some media group requesting MLS adopt promotion and relegation as a condition to a broadcast contract? Also I believe FIFA has been trying to convince the league to adopt a fall to spring season as is done in Europe. There will increasingly be external factors in force which also will play a role in the league's direction and evolution.
    Last edited by NK Toronto; 10-18-2020 at 10:59 AM.

  2. #32
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    Hi all.

    I think solidarity with the players is more complicated than people are saying it is.

    These Supporters Shield custodians are brain dead with respect to how/when to do things, but they are not obviously wrong on the substance.

    I have not been engaged because I also think that there is a legitimacy question about this season.

    Not because of strength of schedule or fairness, more because (i) players were oppressed into playing via the lockout threat, (ii) the Orlando bubble was an abomination (in my opinion they just got lucky with that given how bad the situation was there when they played), and (iii) MLS COVID response overall continues to be mainly about money, and is overall a joke.

    Poz and Piatti told us all what they really think with that PK.

    Anyway I watch the TFC highlights, I will watch the playoffs I am sure, but it ainít really right, for me. I get that others see it is a critical distraction at a very tough time, this isnít all one way or the other.

    But I hate, hate, hate the coercion. They donít really want to be here. These are optional activities. At least the guys who have to work in essential services know that the world needs them.

    Not trying to pee in anyone's corn flakes, I will see you guys down the road.
    ďWhat the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.Ē

  3. #33
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    "
    Hell is always loose here. It can't break loose again
    ."
    -Fort York Redcoat, on the state of TFC

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    Wasn't there a story a couple of years ago about some media group requesting MLS adopt promotion and relegation as a condition to a broadcast contract? Also I believe FIFA has been trying to convince the league to adopt a fall to spring season as is done in Europe. There will increasingly be external factors in force which also will play a role in the league's direction and evolution.
    The former was a figment of the imagination of the owner of the NY Cosmos at the time. He said he had people - never materialised and never taken seriously.

    As for the second, FIFA wasn't doing that push - it was a group of agents. FIFA doesn't care about when a season is but agents do because an aligned schedule with Europe helps them sell players. The fact that an aligned schedule is not possible due to weather (and we have seen during Covid how important home crowds are & how artificial having a base outside of your home is) makes any idea of that impossible.

  5. #35
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    I guess I'm the only one who isn't miffed by this. I didn't realize the players cared that much about it (based on Vanney's quote), but anyway, here's my reasoning:

    To us, to TFC, other than bragging rights, the SS really only means top-seed in the playoffs since we can't qualify for the CL that way. So in that sense, as long as we finish first and get the top-seed, I don't really care if there's a trophy attached to it or not. If we were an American club and could qualify for the CL with the Shield, then yes, I would be pissed now (though they'd probably award the CL spot anyway, come to think of it). But as it stands, all I care about is MLS Cup. Winning the Shield, in terms of its trophy value, is just sort of icing on the cake.

    And that's in a normal year. This year, I actually kind of agree with the whole 'unbalanced schedule' thing. Yes, I know the schedule is always unbalanced, but not like it has been this year, where it as also been shortened. I mean, Colorado might not even play a whole bunch of their games! How unbalanced is that? I know teams in other leagues sometimes get docked points, so I'm not saying that if all those games are cancelled and become 0-3 finals that it's illegitimate, but it does certainly cast a pall over things. Plus, right now it's just the Rapids; next week, literally any team could have an outbreak and even more games could be PP or cancelled. There's just too much uncertainty around everything right now.

    So let's just put our heads down and keep pushing for first overall with the goal in mind of homefield in the playoffs. That's as valuable as a trophy, in my view.
    Last edited by James17930; 10-18-2020 at 01:02 PM. Reason: Typos, extra info

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by James17930 View Post
    I guess I'm the only one who isn't miffed by this. I didn't think the players cared that much about it, but anyway, here's my reasoning..
    They are. They said so on twitter yesterday and the Vanney quote above is as blunt as I've ever heard him.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    They are. They said so on twitter yesterday and the Vanney quote above is as blunt as I've ever heard him.
    Yeah, I see that. It surprises me a bit, but I guess they're proud and they like having pieces of silverware to point to. That's cool. I'm sorry for them if they really wanted it. But I just don't feel it's that important overall (see my post above).

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Hi all.

    Anyway I watch the TFC highlights, I will watch the playoffs I am sure, but it ainít really right, for me. I get that others see it is a critical distraction at a very tough time, this isnít all one way or the other.
    It is disappointing to hear that and there are a lot of reasons to feel the way you do, so not trying to invalidate.

    There are also many reasons to thank and reward the players for overcoming this Covid coercion/adversity. TFC, Impact & Whtecaps more than any have been everywhere this year. The teams didnít get to cherry pick their schedules, they didnít get to say where they would play 12 games in 8/9 weeks etc.

    They have risen to the challenge and hopefully will overcome. It needs to be celebrated, as pointed out we donít get a CCL spot for having the best record, others do. The shield is a way the Supporters can reward whomever comes out on top.

    But, all of the above really means nothing when it comes down to the timing and who was involved with the decision. Seriously, there are 5 games and 2 weeks to go. Seattle, Toronto, Columbus and Philly deserve to chase this thing. Not to sound cynical but we know NYRB and Portland members are 2 of the 5 (both past winners and now out of contention). Who are the other 3 in the group of 5?

  9. #39
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    It's a joke of a decision made by 5 people who didn't consult any of the supporter groups.
    MLS will take their opportunity to cancel this trophy and award their own if it doesn't get reversed.

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    I have a photo of my brother and I holding up the Supporters Shield back when TFC won it. It's my all time favourite picture. I do think that trophy means something to the fans and the players.

    The season obviously isn't ideal. It's been hard for everyone which is all the more reason to still give it out to give the players and fans of some teams something to cheer for and look forward to. It's just such a mean spirited thing to take away and so late in the season too. Very disappointing

  11. #41
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    So the ISC came out & said that all supporter groups were aware of this about 30 minutes after the Nordecke from Columbus said they were never told



    And all I the people I see on twitter supporting the shield decision are NYRB & Seattle fans.

    Something is seriously out of whack somewhere

  12. #42
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    Have we made a similar official public statement?
    What are the other SG groups saying (kings, etc). And what can be done?

  13. #43
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    This underscores why the league needs to step in and create it's own award for league champion rather then permit it to be determined by some so called supporters group with an axe to grind. Has the league or Garber made any public comments on this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by glaze View Post
    Have we made a similar official public statement?
    What are the other SG groups saying (kings, etc). And what can be done?

    FYI... this came across twitter about an hour ago.

    ĒISC Reps, please check the Slack and your emails for communication with regard to the Supporters' Shield and a Q&A with the board.Ē

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    So the ISC came out & said that all supporter groups were aware of this about 30 minutes after the Nordecke from Columbus said they were never told
    What'd they do?...Make a decision, send an e-mail to a couple people, and then announced it publicly an hour later? Letting someone know the decision minutes before is not involving them in the decision. Because that is what this is sounding like

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    Kings of the North have also come out indicating ISC discussion on this was non-existent - apparently the Slack channel involved was only suggested to be something used come the end of this month & not yet mandatory - the Kings rep wasn't even on it yet. The release put out by the Supporter's Council washing their hands of this and saying its up to the 5 people on the Shield committee seems to have caught some people by surprise.

    I note that almost every single thread about this on twitter has a response from some NYRB fan saying they don't think this decision is bad at all. I keep asking them if they would tell their players to their faces that this season is a sham & doesn't matter - only one guy, who happens to run a blog but also sounds like a sociopath, says he would do that.

    The gatekeeping of fun here is staggering. I get people do weird things in relation to Covid but saying people can't enjoy these things, even though there is an obvious asterisk involved, so no trophy is going to be given is really really immature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    But can MLS even do that? Aren't those spots determined by US Soccer and the CSA?

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    Quote Originally Posted by James17930 View Post
    But can MLS even do that? Aren't those spots determined by US Soccer and the CSA?
    That was my point earlier, really it means no and no. But I like that TSN is turning the screws and saying this whole approach needs to be re-thought.

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    Do any of the leaders of the supporters groups have what it takes to pull out of the council? If enough do, collapse...

    The council got it all wrong on so many levels.

  21. #51
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    I'm pretty annoyed by this decision. I've heard no good reason to support this.

    And considering I designed the shield, I'm personally saddened that it won't get handed out. I always get a kick out of seeing it lifted by the players. Even more so when TFC is the team to do so!

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by flatpicker View Post
    I'm pretty annoyed by this decision. I've heard no good reason to support this.

    And considering I designed the shield, I'm personally saddened that it won't get handed out. I always get a kick out of seeing it lifted by the players. Even more so when TFC is the team to do so!
    So what would it cost to make another one....only half joking.

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by flatpicker View Post
    I'm pretty annoyed by this decision. I've heard no good reason to support this.

    And considering I designed the shield, I'm personally saddened that it won't get handed out. I always get a kick out of seeing it lifted by the players. Even more so when TFC is the team to do so!

    Take heart sir..apparently there are plans...well kinda


  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    So what would it cost to make another one....only half joking.
    More than I can afford.
    That said, with where 3D printing is at these days...

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Take heart sir..apparently there are plans...well kinda

    ha! Awesome!

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    The fact that MLS seems to be going along with this decision makes it look like a Mickey Mouse league

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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    The fact that MLS seems to be going along with this decision makes it look like a Mickey Mouse league
    As explained above, it's not MLS's decision to make. It's not their shield. It originated from & is (supposed to be) awarded by supporters. I bet the league will be a bit pissed and embarrassed about the sudden cancellation though, and won't mention or support the Supporters Shield again in the future.

  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    The fact that MLS seems to be going along with this decision makes it look like a Mickey Mouse league

    Nah, makes the league look professional and the Supporters Shield group extremely petty. All fits into the likely plan now to have a league provided trophy next season. I feel for all those people who built up that shield as a thing who've had a bunch of amateurs ruin it through a petty decision involving a shambolic process.

    We all know

    Don't make any major decisions to change things during Covid.

    But, hey, Timber's Army & NYRB groups can't go to games so.....

  29. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by flatpicker View Post
    More than I can afford.
    That said, with where 3D printing is at these days...
    I get the feeling a significant number of people would be willing to contribute large amounts of money to this effort. On Twitter, fans from the around the league were willing to throw money at a GoFundMe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flatpicker View Post
    More than I can afford.
    That said, with where 3D printing is at these days...
    Do you still have connections... could we all pitch in or do a go fund me?.

    edit... Auzzy beat me... but maybe one could be made for RPB trophy case as well.

    All for One..
    Last edited by Bushmancan; 10-18-2020 at 09:55 PM.

 

 

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