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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    I think the whole "group games count towards the regular season" or whatever, is a complete joke anyway. If they can't play games consistently with all the teams "in the bubble" how the hell do they expect to continue with the regular season afterwards? Nothing in the way the disease is spreading in the US, and the reactions to that, tell me that things will be remotely stable in a month or two.
    The Fox boys were all last night on about "how the regular season is coming back in August".

    Baseball is going to be the test for that - starts up next weekend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Keep hearing lack of fitness. I guess while everyone else trained hard during quarantine, Jozy did other things. There's really no excuse to not be near game shape by the start of the tournament.
    I think the odds are pretty high that there is another explanation for his absence, and the Jozy is being asked not to be vocal about the true reasons.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Keep hearing lack of fitness. I guess while everyone else trained hard during quarantine, Jozy did other things. There's really no excuse to not be near game shape by the start of the tournament.
    This may be completely irresponsible speculation, but if he had the virus during the shutdown, it could explain why he was delayed getting back to training, and is so far behind everyone else when he did return. Also could explain why the team was willing to let a DP not use the 4 month layoff to not get ready for a tournament.

  4. #64
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    TFC did the right thing. No sense in rushing a game that could have dire consequences for many involved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    I think the whole "group games count towards the regular season" or whatever, is a complete joke anyway. If they can't play games consistently with all the teams "in the bubble" how the hell do they expect to continue with the regular season afterwards? Nothing in the way the disease is spreading in the US, and the reactions to that, tell me that things will be remotely stable in a month or two.
    This is a key point.

    I think that they did their plans expecting that the disease would die down over summer (which it has somewhat in Canada).

    However the premature and ill advised reopening plans in much of the US, lack of compliance over physical distancing, and people believing weird conspiracy theories and refusing to wear masks, has led to an almost out of control situation south of the border.

    MLS needs to give up on the season period. The billionaires can take a tax write off and hope that a vaccine is out in time for next year.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 07-12-2020 at 10:08 AM.

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    The US sports leagues saw European leagues reopen pretty early and decided that was the template.

    I think, to be fair, nobody had totally realized (or internalized) the degree of societal breakdown/disorder in the US. It’s shocking. They are a failed state. Literally a hundred countries in the world have a better ability to implement a pandemic solution.

    I never thought this tournament made sense, but my reasons were economic (no reward for the risk). I am not feeling good about the actual reasons why it isn’t working.
    Last edited by ensco; 07-12-2020 at 10:20 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Keep hearing lack of fitness. I guess while everyone else trained hard during quarantine, Jozy did other things. There's really no excuse to not be near game shape by the start of the tournament.
    He was working out every day, but there's a difference between that and actual on field training with the team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    The US sports leagues saw European leagues reopen pretty early and decided that was the template.

    I think, to be fair, nobody had totally realized (or internalized) the degree of societal breakdown/disorder in the US. It’s shocking. They are a failed state. Literally a hundred countries in the world have a better ability to implement a pandemic solution.

    I never thought this tournament made sense, but my reasons were economic (no reward for the risk). I am not feeling good about the actual reasons why it isn’t working.

    Mostly agree, especially the US comment. TFC actually looked good refusing to even leave their hotel this morning.

    1) I think the economic one was if done correctly it was an opportunity for MLS to grab some spotlight (NBA, NHL & even NFL) had no real plans announced. It was also a hail mary to try to keep the season alive, they depend so much on ticket sales.

    2) Being on the Disney Campus was actually smart considering the parks weren't open at the time and they should have had a better opportunity to bubble the players, plenty of hotels and secluded facilities...
    2a) but stupid because they must have known that the Parks would be reopening. (Yesterday in fact)

    3) And most importantly, they knew the Florida Governor was a dufus (not a political statement, just pure fact). Telling people to live normally and not wear masks.

    4) The heat would be stifling but the staggered times was at least an approach. Speaking of which, didn't they say they thought Covid would go away with the heat... I guess they were proven wrong on that as well.

    5) We were all starved for sports so anything was better than nothing and they would get viewership. Btw.. the players agreed to do this as well.

    Anyways, I think they are either going to implode with this thing or cross your fingers, a miracle happens and Florida smartens up ... even though the state won't mandate mandatory masks... Orange County which includes Orlando does have a requirement... "Orange County: Every person working, living or visiting Orange County, which includes the city of Orlando, must wear a face mask in public starting at 12:01 a.m. Saturday, June 20."

    I agree it is not worth risking a players career, so keeping fingers crossed.

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    The short term get it in and done bubble approach made sense when every area in North America was in the same boat - lockdown but only NY in serious trouble. If we were in the situation like April when all this started to be planned, it would be weird but feel less dire and would probably be less risky. And, at that time, as Oldtimer said, speculation was it would all die down by now.

    Once it became probable in mid May that many parts of the US were going to have full outbreaks & this would be happening while social distancing lockdowns were actively discouraged by some local governments, the smart & healthy thing to do would have been to look at a longer term approach, like the NBA. MLS has two compelling interests to ignore that - TV revenue (now shared with the players and thus why they went along with it) & owners thinking they might still get a season in.

    Once areas started to open up & covid surged again (it never went away from any part of the US), the short term bubble approach became untenable. But the momentum continued.

    My thoughts, until today, were it was possible to maintain a bubble if smart protocols were followed. Seems they were not put into place, partly because everybody balked at the length of time players would be away from home.

    Now, today, we are seeing people choosing to play even though they were in contact with somebody who had covid & might have the disease themselves. Teams & players have been put into a mental position where some of them feel their need to play is more important then their need to be safe.

    TFC seems to be the only group down there with any grasp of the severity of what the heck is actually involved. I don't know if that is player driven, management driven or what - but somehow, this group figured out that the right thing right now may not always be football.

    We will see what happens with the rechecks today. If that DCU player is positive, the game should not go on. I would hope an honest risk assessment is somebody training with you in a contact sport is putting you at serious risk. That doesn't seem to be what SKC is doing though.

    ***********************

    That having been said, as a person who works in an essential industry, I can tell you what I see is happening for businesses right now around Ontario:

    Here's the example, mentioned in the news a few weeks ago. One person tested positive at UPS in Concord - rest of crew also tested - 12 positives. UPS were shut down for less then 12 hours.


    Positive test on a co-worker? Assess risk, get tested now, get tested again 7 days after you last were near them. If you assess the risk as high to you, you might go into 14 day quarantine - but not everybody who was working in a place where a positive case person was working will stay away from work. Business will clean & not stop.


    Now, I would say that soccer is not an essential industry & all this mularky of playing around a positive test is for poor reasons. But, I see where the attitude in MLS is coming from.

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    ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (AP) — Florida on Sunday reported the largest single-day increase in positive coronavirus cases in any one state since the beginning of the pandemic.

    https://apnews.com/798f9aab3bb2e5fbf733413a99476d7c
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Keep hearing lack of fitness. I guess while everyone else trained hard during quarantine, Jozy did other things. There's really no excuse to not be near game shape by the start of the tournament.
    he had to quarantine after returning to Toronto for 14 days so missed training.

  12. #72
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    We are now seeing some doubt if the Blue Jays will even be allowed to play their regular season games at the dome now with reports now suggesting that Buffalo could be their home base. I totally get why the Ontario government is uneasy with teams coming in an out of the US to play here. MLS is hoping none of these positive tests are being spread within the complex, plus now Disney is open to the public. This has disaster written all over it. Time to come home our Reds, rather you be safe and sound here.

    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    The short term get it in and done bubble approach made sense when every area in North America was in the same boat - lockdown but only NY in serious trouble. If we were in the situation like April when all this started to be planned, it would be weird but feel less dire and would probably be less risky. And, at that time, as Oldtimer said, speculation was it would all die down by now.

    Once it became probable in mid May that many parts of the US were going to have full outbreaks & this would be happening while social distancing lockdowns were actively discouraged by some local governments, the smart & healthy thing to do would have been to look at a longer term approach, like the NBA. MLS has two compelling interests to ignore that - TV revenue (now shared with the players and thus why they went along with it) & owners thinking they might still get a season in.

    Once areas started to open up & covid surged again (it never went away from any part of the US), the short term bubble approach became untenable. But the momentum continued.

    My thoughts, until today, were it was possible to maintain a bubble if smart protocols were followed. Seems they were not put into place, partly because everybody balked at the length of time players would be away from home.

    Now, today, we are seeing people choosing to play even though they were in contact with somebody who had covid & might have the disease themselves. Teams & players have been put into a mental position where some of them feel their need to play is more important then their need to be safe.

    TFC seems to be the only group down there with any grasp of the severity of what the heck is actually involved. I don't know if that is player driven, management driven or what - but somehow, this group figured out that the right thing right now may not always be football.

    We will see what happens with the rechecks today. If that DCU player is positive, the game should not go on. I would hope an honest risk assessment is somebody training with you in a contact sport is putting you at serious risk. That doesn't seem to be what SKC is doing though.

    ***********************

    That having been said, as a person who works in an essential industry, I can tell you what I see is happening for businesses right now around Ontario:

    Here's the example, mentioned in the news a few weeks ago. One person tested positive at UPS in Concord - rest of crew also tested - 12 positives. UPS were shut down for less then 12 hours.


    Positive test on a co-worker? Assess risk, get tested now, get tested again 7 days after you last were near them. If you assess the risk as high to you, you might go into 14 day quarantine - but not everybody who was working in a place where a positive case person was working will stay away from work. Business will clean & not stop.


    Now, I would say that soccer is not an essential industry & all this mularky of playing around a positive test is for poor reasons. But, I see where the attitude in MLS is coming from.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

  13. #73
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    Noticed no Canadian starters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red CB Toronto View Post

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    That having been said, as a person who works in an essential industry, I can tell you what I see is happening for businesses right now around Ontario:

    Here's the example, mentioned in the news a few weeks ago. One person tested positive at UPS in Concord - rest of crew also tested - 12 positives. UPS were shut down for less then 12 hours.


    Positive test on a co-worker? Assess risk, get tested now, get tested again 7 days after you last were near them. If you assess the risk as high to you, you might go into 14 day quarantine - but not everybody who was working in a place where a positive case person was working will stay away from work. Business will clean & not stop.


    Now, I would say that soccer is not an essential industry & all this mularky of playing around a positive test is for poor reasons. But, I see where the attitude in MLS is coming from.
    I have no idea how UPS managed things in that location, before and after the positive tests. From what I've seen and heard, some companies manage things pretty well wrt. COVID-19 risks; some don't. I also see the measures that are being put into place at UofT, within the longstanding framework of Health & Safety. (Although even within UofT, the measures seem to vary between groups and departments. In our department, we have a history of significant risks from lab work and other environments. Our Health & Safety procedures have a tradition and have teeth, and will hopefully also work for the pandemic.)

    I.e. beforehand at UPS and other companies:
    1) Were they minimizing close contact between workers; keeping workers in stable "cohorts;" other hygiene measures; and keeping good records of where close contact happened anyway?
    2) Were they regularly & proactively testing at least some within risky environments?
    3) After first positive tests, were they able to quickly use info from 1) to contain and test all that were at risk; disinfect affected areas; and quarantine as necessary?

    Within MLS bubble, 1) is pretty much out the window due to full team training, tight locker rooms, probable interaction within each team at the hotels, interaction with physio and trainers, etc. (That's in addition to possible bubble leaks via resort & hotel workers that go in & out of the Florida COVID swamp -- 15,300 positive results in one day.)

    So MLS is really not comparable to any well-run company. MLS is much close to the migrant agricultural worker scenario. (And BC was even able to manage that risk much better.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket Robin View Post
    Noticed no Canadian starters.
    Its about putting the best you have out there and that is what matters. This is a results based business.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket Robin View Post
    Noticed no Canadian starters.
    Well Akinola is technically eligible for the Canadian national team, so maybe we should claim it as 0.5 starters.

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    Florida shatters single-day coronavirus record with more than 15,000 new cases, on the other hand Ontario has 129 new cases. There is only one choice here, come home you Reds.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    FWIW Reports coming in that both tests have returned negative

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokecell View Post
    FWIW Reports coming in that both tests have returned negative
    What are your sources to back this up??

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by gracos View Post
    What are your sources to back this up??
    Steve Goff on twitter

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    Steven Goff

    @SoccerInsider


    15m


    MLS looking to play the D.C. United v Toronto FC match Monday morning, person close to the situation says. Both effected players have tested negative, but a second consecutive negative test is needed. More details to come ...

    Steven Goff

    @SoccerInsider
    ·
    5m

    Current MLS schedule -- and who knows when it will change again -- has two matches tonight and two matches Monday night. Playing Monday morning, however, would force a change to Toronto's Wednesday match vs Montreal. DCU's next game is Thursday vs NE.





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    Thank you for following up

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    Encouraging news. These false positives are going to play havoc with the tournament if this keeps up.

  24. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManUtd4ever View Post
    Encouraging news. These false positives are going to play havoc with the tournament if this keeps up.

    I still think in the best interest and the hot mess that Florida is, its time to get out.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    Every last minute cancellation, hurts the league, and the city fanbase.
    Cancel this tournament already.

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    Stefano Fusaro










    @FusaroESPN

















    After speaking with MLS officials, I have more clarity on the decision to postpone Toronto FC - DC United this morning. After the initial positive test for a DCU player, and the inconclusive test for a Toronto FC .they were unable to complete the additional testing required, according to the protocols in place, to clear both teams to play. The plan is to complete all of the additional testing, required by their protocols, by late tonight.






    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

  27. #87
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    What a Goddamned fucking shitshow this is becoming!

    Shut it down! Shut all sports down until a vaccine is widely available to the public! This is so not worth it!
    TORONTO FC, 2017 MLS CHAMPIONS!!! (Still the greatest in league history!)

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    Athletic has the tick tock about today ...including a bit from Ali Curtis - team had not left, was still talking when league pulled the plug

    https://theathletic.com/1924358/2020...toronto-match/

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    A huge brawl has erupted in the basketball world that may influence MLS decisions.

    ESPN (ie Disney) has today suspended the Woj (the pre-eminent beat guy in the NBA, google him if you don’t know the NBA, he breaks every trade, he has no parallel in terms of stature in other sports, think Goff x100) for insulting a Republican senator who was trying to change the channel on the NBA focus on BLM by asking about the NBA relationship with China.

    Point being, this is delicate for MLS, there are politics to all this now and Republicans watching this all very closely - MLS have no easy way to back out (assuming they want to abandon this, I don’t know that they do) with a very Trumpy governor in Florida and two teams in the state.

    Garber and Abbott continue to get themselves into corners. NHL has played this much smarter by waiting to see what happens with NBA. The risk/reward in “going first“ was terrible from the outset.
    Last edited by ensco; 07-12-2020 at 03:35 PM.
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    Major League Soccer’s Disney World bubble differs from the NBA in one significant way.NBA players have arrived at least three weeks before their first scheduled games, which allows for more testing to determine whether players were exposed to coronavirus outside the bubble and provides them with more recovery time if they register a positive test result.

    MLS originally proposed a comparable stretch for pre-tournament training, testing and isolation, but it tightened its timeline when players objected to spending so much time isolated in Orlando, a league source told the Orlando Sentinel. The league’s tournament proposal was first reported by The Athletic.


    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

 

 

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