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    Default The 2020 season is over

    There is zero chance public gatherings of more than 20K people will be allowed this season. Scrap this season & start the next season in FEB 2021. I want my money back to help feed my family as this is not getting better anytime soon

    My family is 100% unemployed and I foresee a big depression with mostly only gov't workers having a job & those will also be screwed when the the gov't runs out of money next year.

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    There was an email opt out for members for the March payment. I suspect the same will be provided for the April one. Contact a rep.

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    Season will happen for sure in the fall but will be some kind of weird tournament. No fans for sure and probably not next year either unless a vaccine comes up. I see some health regulator recommendations that all large events be cancelled until at least Fall 2021.

    I assume we're not getting a refund but it would be nice if we got something for our season ticket money better than a crappy scarf in a bag. Team is owned by the two main TV providers so toss a MLS live thing on a channel or streaming site and let us SSHs have access to it. Toss up our history at least for now. I would watch a lot of old stuff on demand. They know we're not seeing matches this season so hearing something, anything would be nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    There was an email opt out for members for the March payment. I suspect the same will be provided for the April one. Contact a rep.
    Yes but if I understand correctly, it is just going to roll into and inflate the May and June payments. Not really much of a help to those of us whom entire households are out of work with no recall likely.

    MLS should to the right thing and call off the season and MLSE should give everyone a refund as soon as they can get them out the door with an option of credits to the next season just as several of the subscription theatres have done. Right now I need to feed my family, and the four grand MLSE is sitting on would feed us for months. They are holding thousands of dollars with no games in sight and no interest.

    If they do end up with an abbreviated season let people choose or not whether they want to attend and charge them at that point.

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    There's some speculation that North American sports leagues can't cancel because insurance only covers events as they come up - as long as there is a potential for a game to occur as deemed by the insurance companies, the insurance people won't let them cancel dates. Which is why the dates to restart they are setting are laughably close and will likely remain so until the fall.

    I agree that it is highly unlikely we see fans in seats until at least 2021, and I actually think 2022 is more likely.

    I also think teams have to start thinking about the cash strapped nature of their members and allow people to opt out during this time.

    Specifically to TFC

    Membership is a monthly fee for a number of games per season. Until they admit they can not do the amount of games in the season, they won't give people money back. Not sure the league would let them do that unilaterally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    There's some speculation that North American sports leagues can't cancel because insurance only covers events as they come up - as long as there is a potential for a game to occur as deemed by the insurance companies, the insurance people won't let them cancel dates. Which is why the dates to restart they are setting are laughably close and will likely remain so until the fall.

    I agree that it is highly unlikely we see fans in seats until at least 2021, and I actually think 2022 is more likely.

    I also think teams have to start thinking about the cash strapped nature of their members and allow people to opt out during this time.

    Specifically to TFC

    Membership is a monthly fee for a number of games per season. Until they admit they can not do the amount of games in the season, they won't give people money back. Not sure the league would let them do that unilaterally.
    I believe MLSE should be giving back cash to all the season seat holders, one for the Leafs is no different than TFC, Raptors to an Argos one. Its the good thing to do?

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    I have no opinion, but I am intrigued by the difference between the comments on this site, and those of my European club (Hibs).
    On the Hibs chat sites all the talk is about what the supporters can do to help the club in these difficult times.
    To raise much needed cash, the club has put 2020-21 season renewals on sale early, and over 3500 have already been sold. Not bad for a club that averages c18,000 a game.
    And I can ensure you that Hibs support is mostly from the 'wrong' end of Edinburgh, and anything but wealthy.
    On this site the talk is about refunds.
    I guess this is a result of the difference between the North American franchise model and the European models, which result in a much greater feeling of ownership of the club among supporters.
    Again, I'm not criticizing the comments above, just observing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lil'John View Post
    I have no opinion, but I am intrigued by the difference between the comments on this site, and those of my European club (Hibs).
    On the Hibs chat sites all the talk is about what the supporters can do to help the club in these difficult times.
    To raise much needed cash, the club has put 2020-21 season renewals on sale early, and over 3500 have already been sold. Not bad for a club that averages c18,000 a game.
    And I can ensure you that Hibs support is mostly from the 'wrong' end of Edinburgh, and anything but wealthy.
    On this site the talk is about refunds.
    I guess this is a result of the difference between the North American franchise model and the European models, which result in a much greater feeling of ownership of the club among supporters.
    Again, I'm not criticizing the comments above, just observing!
    Here it is a business first. They do well and they charge us more. They do bad and they reduce our price. They don’t play any games then they should give us our money back. I can tell you for sure if I am not doing well financially they will not reduce my price to help me....why should I pay them extra to help them if they start hurting?

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    I feel for Ponderosa and anyone else like him/her. A lot of real supporters are going to need to take a pause here, regardless of whenever this restarts.

    There is a pretty widespread attempt by corporations to duck refunds and just provide future exchanges. Even in the face of laws requiring otherwise. Air Canada claims it is an issue of survival for them - which it may be.

    https://toronto.citynews.ca/2020/04/...irus-pandemic/

    This isn’t a survival issue for MLSE so they have the opportunity to do the right thing. I wouldn’t say that they have ever shown much leadership, sadly, on business/moral issues, given a chance.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    People vote with their dollars spent. If MLSE and other companies don’t do right by their customers it can affect future business with them. If TFC season is cut in any way and there is not a proper arrangement by MLSE I will become a supporter from home as much as I love being at the games. I am sure I am not the only one.

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    Honestly, I will be open not renewing my season tickets next year. Even though I got 2 months left of payments, it's the principle that matter the most to me here.

    MLSE is multi-billion dollar corporation that can easily at least pause monthly payments if they wanted to.

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    Until MLS calls the season off (and I still think they are being pressured by some of the owners who's livlihoods are not as secure as they were 3 months ago) there won't be refunds by one team.

    Part of the issue here is the media access to Team Presidents (they guys who should be asked these questions) is of the every few weeks "so how's the isolation going for you" variety.

    Its times like this that the ISC should be putting pressure on the league.

    BUT, this is also time for the supporters groups to start asking questions as well. I'm actually surprised there has not been talk from the more vocal groups within the league and from some of the more activist journalists like @MLSist.

    All the discussion has been about the PT staff, which needs to be done. But, there is a story here and a supporters issue.

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    The issue of morality in business life disappeared for decades - maybe it's time it made a comeback.

    The whole issue of “prepaying” as a part and parcel of seasons tickets has been kind of an increasingly abusive one in sports for decades.

    There are truly not very many businesses where you systematically get paid far in advance of delivering the service or product. Most businesses need working capital (they need funding from banks or investors to pay for the product and service, with the money from customers only coming upon delivery). It's worth thinking about why sports or airlines are different. One obvious reason: because every sports team or airline is a form of monopoly.

    Given current ticketing/technology systems, there is really no reason the funds aren’t charged just before the event for any airline ticket or sports or theatrical event, and I think there will be votes in it for future political candidates who point out that what passes for “normal practice” in these industries is really coercive and should be restricted.

    If I were czar: I think the airline or MLSE should put a hold on your credit card and there could be reasonable (ie 20%) penalties for cancelling in advance, but actual payment should only happen two weeks in advance.

    EDIT: Just reading about the Ticketmaster fiasco on this now. Their behaviour has been so bad that it gives me hope that there may now be the political climate to actually fix this.
    Last edited by ensco; 04-19-2020 at 11:29 AM.
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    I work in ticketing (well did before all of this) - part of me thinks that the initial announcement about not refunding postponed events had to do with all of the season tickets that TM deals with.

    Seasons wouldn't be cancelled, they'd be postponed - so no refunds.

    I'm really struggling to think of how ticketing survives if there are no events for a year and everybody needs their money back (which is understandable) and consequently how live events would function. There are hundreds of ticketing services out there - but not at the scale of TM (or even my former employer). It took us nearly two years to deploy our software of our biggest clients 40 theatres.
    Toronto 'til I die - but I think they're trying to kill me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eustacchio View Post
    I'm really struggling to think of how ticketing survives if there are no events for a year and everybody needs their money back (which is understandable) and consequently how live events would function. There are hundreds of ticketing services out there - but not at the scale of TM (or even my former employer). It took us nearly two years to deploy our software of our biggest clients 40 theatres.


    What makes live events different from every other entertainment business? As a for instance, when movies or TV shows are made, the production company is paid when they deliver. The makers of shows finance the creation of show by borrowing (or getting investors) - there is a contract, but the buyers have outs - maybe at a cost, but they can walk.

    How is this different?

    Also tickets should be in people's names (like airline tickets) - the whole thing with the scalping/bots needs to stop.

    Sorry, I know this is your livelihood, but maybe you could explain to a layman why this whole ticketing ecosystem shouldn't just be allowed to fail.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Personally, my family and I are in a lucky position to still have one person working, so I am not financially worried about the refund, but morally and ethically they should be starting to refund - all events in Toronto through the end of June are cancelled so a reasonable position would be for MLSE at least to refund the ten games scheduled before the end of June - of course they can say "they may still happen" - but we all know that is very unlikely to fit an entire season in starting in July, particularly in a world where there will still be the virus with no vaccine. How are they going to play a contact sport when you cannot be within six feet of each other? It is simply untenable.

    I got tickets in 2007 to ensure we had a local team, and have been rewarded amply with what football brings - heartbreak, heartbreak, more heartbreak, frustration, heartbreak again - and now success. I get what the Hibs supporters are doing and think it is fantastic - but MLSE doesn't need interest free loans from TFC supporters. It isn't 2007, but it is MLSE, a mega wealthy corporation with mega wealthy shareholders and wealthy executives.

    This period is really showing the ugly side of our modern economy, and and the insatiable greed of many at the top - Ruth's Chris steakhouse chain claiming the small business benefit from the US government for example to pay executives their bloated salaries - money that should have gone to small business but could not because it ran out. I'm not prepared to jump on MLSE yet, because being part of the league complicates things and many owners are not in their position, but keeping the payments made by your most loyal supporters (season ticket holders) for games that clearly are never going to be played is pretty close to the line. They need to deal with this soon.
    Last edited by MightyDM; 04-20-2020 at 04:27 PM.

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    Well Quebec has announced no events until Aug 31.
    So Montreal impact won't have any home games really.
    I'll be following what they'll be doing for their season seat holders.
    As well reading articles that Ontario has reached its peak in the pandemic. Articles like this, is whats going to reignite the COVID-19. On my way to work and back I heard it on the radio several times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    What makes live events different from every other entertainment business? As a for instance, when movies or TV shows are made, the production company is paid when they deliver. The makers of shows finance the creation of show by borrowing (or getting investors) - there is a contract, but the buyers have outs - maybe at a cost, but they can walk.

    How is this different?

    Also tickets should be in people's names (like airline tickets) - the whole thing with the scalping/bots needs to stop.

    Sorry, I know this is your livelihood, but maybe you could explain to a layman why this whole ticketing ecosystem shouldn't just be allowed to fail.
    No need to apologize at all. I agree tickets should be in people's names - it's a requirement of the FA so we have that functionality (you can even require photos of every attendee). You cannot buy tickets without associating each of them to an account. I think doing the mobile tickets is an attempt at making that happen though in a different way.

    I think that TM should be allowed to fail for sure, I just think that failing this way will be the issue. Globally, a lot of other companies depend on TM and I think it would be like dominoes, especially for the smaller venues.

    Live events aren't different than other entertainment productions - all of those investors have contracts and outs too. The difference is that production companies are still making money - they're putting out new content still. People are renting movies and streaming. Nobody is demanding their money back for their cable subscriptions. There isn't much happening in terms of live events - some theatres are streaming shows but you can't charge full price for that. There are very few new tickets sales and everybody else wants their money back.
    Toronto 'til I die - but I think they're trying to kill me.

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    Just talked to a TFC FO guy. Refunds will be made available for sure but they have to wait for MLS to officially cancel games. Right now they are still being told by the league office that games will be rescheduled only so far so they won't act until the official word comes. Just thought I would mention since some thought there was a possibility of no refund for the games not played. We all know the official word will be coming but until then, we keep paying for our membership and use their deferred payment thing if needed. I was also told that there is a chance for the payment this month to change. Not sure exactly what that meant. For people that paid for single game tickets through Ticketmaster, I guess it gets a lot more complicated in terms of refunds since buying through Ticketmaster instead of directly from the club like the memberships do.

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    Hope everyone is OK, on the LAFC redit page....

    Last edited by Bushmancan; 04-22-2020 at 02:41 PM.

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    Some leagues in Europe will be playing in empty stadiums until next spring.

    I am going to assume same is going to happen with MLS as well.

    https://sports.yahoo.com/if-german-s...3.html?src=rss

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    I don't know if the season is over for sure, but in the meantime this is genuinely an awesome way to make use of an empty arena: MLSE preparing up 10,000 meals per day, for shelters, community agencies who feed the vulnerable, and health-care workers.

    https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/202...e-workers.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    Some leagues in Europe will be playing in empty stadiums until next spring.

    I am going to assume same is going to happen with MLS as well.
    That only works if the financial model provides enough revenue from TV contracts to make it work, combined with possible concessions from players.

    Presumably a league in Europe that get's 90% of it's revenue from TV contracts is going to be more likely, than a league that gets most of its revenue from the box office.

    I'm not sure where MLS (and particularly many of the US teams that don't have national TV contracts) fit on that spectrum.

    Seems unlikely that we'll be back at BMO any time soon though - but given the place was as full as other season openers on March 7 - did anyone actually hear about anyone contracting Covid from that match?

    Not really a big deal ... I paid my tickets in full months ago. It's certainly not in my budgeting ... even if they give an option for a refund, I'd sooner just put them towards my 2021 or 2022 (depending when we resume) tickets.

    Though I'd appreciate the money from the 3 Jays games I'd bought tickets to ... though currently I officially hold tickets to the currently planned season opener on Victoria Day weekend ... (as if ...). But again - the money was already spent.

    And look at all the money I'm saving from not drinking at BMO Field!

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    I sort of get what the NBA is talking about, a short playoff sprint in Vegas, in a venue purpose built to mask (or even take advantage of ) the absence of fans. They are talking about building, in a Convention Center, a purpose built court with 100 built in cameras.

    But the Bundesliga is making a mistake: playing the games in cavernous stadiums without fans, on an ongoing basis, is depressing. It tarnishes the brand, and people won’t watch that in anything like the numbers they think. My suspicion anyway.
    Last edited by ensco; 04-26-2020 at 08:11 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I sort of get what the NBA is talking about, a short playoff sprint in Vegas, in a venue purpose built to mask (or even take advantage of ) the absence of fans. They are talking about building, in a Convention Center, a purpose built court with 100 built in cameras.

    But the Bundesliga is making a mistake: playing the games in cavernous stadiums without fans, on an ongoing basis, is depressing. It tarnishes the brand, and people won’t watch that in anything like the numbers they think. My suspicion anyway.
    If over a million people in the US will watch Taiwanese baseball simply because it's the only baseball on, I'm sure many millions around the world will tune in to watch the Bundesliga when it's the only football on.

    Hell, Canadians even have a reason to cheer for Bayern, if they didn't already.

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    I watch the news in Germany closely, and there’s a massive debate about the Bundesliga plans. Whether they go ahead with restarting the league soon w/o fans or not, either will lead to a huge controversy. We should avoid the impression that’s an easy or done deal.
    Last edited by Auzzy; 04-26-2020 at 09:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by James17930 View Post
    If over a million people in the US will watch Taiwanese baseball simply because it's the only baseball on, I'm sure many millions around the world will tune in to watch the Bundesliga when it's the only football on.

    Hell, Canadians even have a reason to cheer for Bayern, if they didn't already.
    I get novelty viewing. The first Bundesliga game would draw massive ratings. But the question is, how many times will casual fans watch anything that feels insincere and not “right”? (Casuals are the vast majority of those big TV audiences.)

    These guys are making a big assumption about the TV ratings. There is a serious risk. Sports are not just sports. They have meaning beyond the competition. They are an event, a happening. TV sells you the “you are there” illusion.

    They are effing with the magic if they do this for more than a few weeks. The magic trick falls apart when the stadium is empty.
    Last edited by ensco; 04-26-2020 at 11:01 AM.
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    the dutch have cancelled the rest of their season. coming soon to a league near you...

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    NBA's biggest mistake is some team's can't practice in an area under lockdown while those that are able to do so may be doing so based on poor local political decisions. Like, Georgia & Florida are not exactly the best examples here. And giving a competitive advantage to a team because its political leadership is stupid is...kinda dumb.

    NFL is doing it right - no practices or meetings until every team can do so. MLS will hopefully follow suit.

    The NHL are not quite in denial but they have been suggesting Toronto as a venue in June for their mini playoff format & if they do so, that is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    NBA's biggest mistake is some team's can't practice in an area under lockdown while those that are able to do so may be doing so based on poor local political decisions. Like, Georgia & Florida are not exactly the best examples here. And giving a competitive advantage to a team because its political leadership is stupid is...kinda dumb.

    NFL is doing it right - no practices or meetings until every team can do so. MLS will hopefully follow suit.

    The NHL are not quite in denial but they have been suggesting Toronto as a venue in June for their mini playoff format & if they do so, that is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.
    A couple of things.

    1) NBA is an optics thing - just setting the groundwork for having the playoffs teams in Los Angeles, Toronto, Boston (ie the better teams in lockdown cities) move their teams to Vegas or wherever. Those teams need to be seen to be "forced" to leave rather than seen as choosing to "abandon" their hunkered-down fan bases.

    2) That NFL statement - holy smokes, whipping the challenge flag on the field on that one! On what would you base this claim? The NFL does not "do the right thing", it literally always puts profits first. I can show you 10 ways the NFL endlessly does the wrong thing, whether it's with regard to Kaepernick/race relations, concussions, serious scandals involving owners, charging the military big money to be promoted at their games, union busting, all the players with assault issues that they ignore....Only the states with Trumpy governors are re-opening, and no league is more politically aligned with Republicans than the NFL. The NFL have just been incredibly lucky with the timing of this, that's all, but all things being equal, the NFL would inevitably be the first to hold practices or play games when you shouldn't, I would bet serious money on that. (Bias disclosure: I used to love the NFL but walked away years ago. It is to me a microcosm of everything that has gone wrong in America.)

    3) MLS. I see no way forward given relative unimportance of TV as pointed out above by others. Maybe they could get some ratings lift if the better teams play some sort of elite tournament in Mexico with the best Liga MX teams or something...
    Last edited by ensco; 04-26-2020 at 03:47 PM.
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